Don''t even know where to begin.

[yssie]

Date: 5/12/2010 2:53:08 PM
Author: jaylex
Hi Everyone.. thanks for your responses.

I just wanted to clarify a few things..

I am 19, Fiance is 21. I live with my parents, he lives with his.
I have been attending this church since I was 3. Fiance has been attending since we started dating almost 5 years ago.

We aren't employed by the church... but we are in roles of 'leadership' because I sing and he plays guitar in the bands during the worship services.
Apparently, some of the 'younger' members (haha.. so I guess 15-17) look up to us as 'role models' and our relationship as an 'example'.
Personally, I never asked to be a role model. I just wanted to sing! But the youth pastor uses this as his bases for why he can't 'allow us to live in sin'.
Besides that, I guess the church consistory has a rule that if members in leadership roles decide to live a life that is outside the churches values, they need to step down from their roles until the behavior is corrected. For instance, someone having an affair, someone with a severe gambling problem, addition to underage pornography (all examples I've heard of) and people living together before marriage.

Personally, if we were 34 and had lived on our own previous to dating and decided to move in, no one would bat an eye.
I really do think it is just because we are so close to the 'youth group' age, they are trying to make an 'example' out of us.
And I hate that. Like I said, I never asked to be a role model. But I understand that by putting myself in the churches 'public eye' I really don't have a choice.
Not everyone in our church is intolerant to it though.
We did tell some of our closer friends who are in the band with us that we were thinking about moving out and that it would probably mean having to get 'kicked out' of the band and four of the members were so upset by it that they offered to leave with us. Only one of those members was under the age of 36 lol. We also talked to some of our parents friends when we were still trying to make a decision on whether or not we were going to move out and they were really upset by the idea of us getting kicked out as well.

Unfortunately, the youth pastor is the leader of one band we are in, and one of my moms kinda/friends is the leader of the other.
But honestly, we drive to and from church together every saturday and sunday, we attend all of the functions together, we go to and from band practice together. The only way anyone would have suspected us of moving out was if they happened to live in the same apartment building as us and saw our cars parked out front.

I don't really care as much what people think about us moving out.. I'm beyond upset with my mother who lived with my dad before they were married, with her boyfriends after they got divorced, and with my stepdad before they were married. And I feel like she was able to make her choice. She tried to take away my right to choose and that ticks me off the most I think. Besides that, I really hate that men that are already married are trying to meddle in my personal life.
I think it's really easy for everyone to say 'don't live together if you're not married' when they themselves are married. But if they get a divorce, I hardly doubt they'll abstain from sex until they re-marry.

Speaking of sex, that is another frustrating part of this. my mom, as a last-ditch effort to get us to not move out together, offered fiance to move in to our guest bedroom. They (mom and pastor) also brought up the idea that Fiance could move out while I stay at home (which is not a good place to be, believe you me) until the wedding. I could be over his apartment all the time as long as I came home to sleep. What the heck do they think we'd be doing over there?! Is there some sort of a rule that you can only have sex after the sun sets? Nooo...
it's clearly not about whether or not we have sex... they just don't want themselves to 'look bad' because they raised/allowed teenagers (that are in a healthy, committed relationship) to 'sleep together'.
I can't even begin to say ticked off that makes me. I feel like it's none of their business what we do/don't do behind closed doors.

It's not our church beliefs that are important to us... My personal faith is important to me. I feel like we can have faith in God and still move in together. I don't see how those two things are in conflict. But i can go to a church that has some beliefs I won't always agree with.

But whatever. I know this means a lot to my fiance and even though part of me wants to say 'eff you! we made our decision' to everyone. I just want the two of us to be happy and safe. And I think this would be good for us.
Plus the extra tax refund, break on our car/medical/renters insurance, and shutting the inlaws mouths are perks! lol. just kidding.

We are going to look at this as the 'legal' part of our wedding and the next may date as a renewal of that but also the emotional/spiritual part of our wedding.
As far as the legal part of the ceremony goes, I am expecting to walk in, sign the paper and walk out. The pastors, our close family members and the people in our party will know.. besides that I'm not sure who we will tell about it. We don't have all of the kinks worked out yet. This is all really sudden for me.

I don't know why I have mixed emotions about it. I'm still marrying my best friend. We talked about getting engaged a year before it actually happened and we are obviously ready to marry each other, otherwise there wouldn't have been an engagement. I believe that marriage is more than just a piece of paper and a party and that we have been working on our 'marriage' for 4 years.. I guess it's just trying to wrap my head around the sudden date change. Two days ago my biggest source of stress was trying to get everything ready for our move. Yesterday it was totally shifted to 'wow. I'm getting 'married' in 9 days'.
But I guess part of me doesn't want the stigma that comes with being married at 19, or the 'shot gun' wedding. And the really stubborn part of me doesn't want people to think i'm getting married just because the church told me I 'have to'.

I'll post more later. Thanks again everyone.

Jaylex - in red, that's EXACTLY what you're doing, and everyone will know it.


I know a bit about how you feel because my family is much the same way, very religious and culturually conservative - the difference is that I have no objections to picking and choosing the bits and pieces of culture and religion that I agree with, ignoring the rest, and firmly saying "NO" when someone tries to convince me otherwise.


Your church has certain opinions - like that living together before marriage is wrong - it's their choice. It's not for you to try and skirt that by doing things in secret: that just makes you both look childish, and will cement others' beliefs that you are too young to get married and that it's a good thing you have them to guide you properly - against your will, if necessary. Besides, why would you want to hold a place of authority if it means teaching those who see you as a role model things you don't truly believe yourself?


Live YOUR life on your own terms

 

[lilyfoot]

Jaylex, as I said before, whether or not you and your fiance choose to "act" married, in your hearts, you will know that you are married.

As someone who just got married 2.5 weeks ago, I can tell you that these first couple of weeks of being married have been great, and I am really looking forward to the rest of our "first year of marriage". Though nothing has actually changed (besides my last name), I still know in my soul that we are now married (as will you). I would not give up my first year of marriage for any person or organization. You will be giving up your first year of marriage, there is no way to get it back once it''s gone.

You really need to rethink this. If getting married this year was what you wanted, it would''ve been your original plan!

For lack of better words, you''re going to need to grow some b*lls, and handle this situation like a real woman, and a real team with your future husband.

 

[mrscushion]

Date: 5/12/2010 2:34:36 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 5/12/2010 2:19:00 PM
Author: mscushion
There probably aren't many people who are less into organized religion than I am. That said, I would like to defend jaylex here.
She is facing competing priorities between her church, her independence from her family, and her wish for a big old wedding, but I think she is making a very reasonable choice here. If her church position is important to her, but so is moving out and away from her controlling family, then yes, she needs to rush her wedding, now that the cat is out of the bag. I don't think she's being strong-armed into a wedding, and I don't think it's our place to tell her that she needs to choose against her church. (And come on, you can absolutely be very active in a religious organization and still not support 100% of its policies.) A different choice (staying at home for another year, giving up her church position) would be reasonable, too, but it's not the choice she wants to make. What's more, I think she's perfectly within her rights to feel sorry about this less-than-perfect choice she has to make. It really is unfortunate.
jaylex, sorry I've been speaking in the third person. I just wanted to say that elsewhere, in Germany for example, many people have a small, simple legal wedding well in advance of the church wedding and celebration. A year between the two is not uncommon. I think you'll be able to do a party regardless. I do agree with other posters that you shouldn't lie about not being married. That's a bad idea. Be honest and just make the 2011 wedding the big bash you want to have.

I agree with what you've said mscushion, but I think the biggest point here is that jaylex isn't happy about it. If she could have it her way, the way that would make her happiest is living with her FI for a year, and getting married then, while retaining her position within the church.
This is a sucky situation and she's between a rock and a hard place, and it seems that no matter what she does, now that she's in this situation, she's going to be unhappy in some regard. And that sucks.

I agree; that's why I think she deserves compassion about being between a rock and a hard place rather than the harsh judgment I felt some initial posts passed.

 

[princesss]

Jaylex, it sounds from your post like this is something your FI wants to do because he''s uncomfortable standing up for himself/his wants/your decisions as a couple. Is that accurate? Your post screams "I don''t want to do this," but you seem to be accepting it, and I''m wondering if that''s more for your FI''s sake than because you don''t want to rock the boat with church leadership.

If that''s true, I''d worry that a) he''s going into marriage without being ready to put his partner above everything and everybody else in the world. Church leadership is filled with people. Flawed, pained, people (and in the case of your particular youth pastor, people who want control). This policy of kicking people out of leadership positions until they "rectify the situation" is made by people. Is it based on a religious principle? Yes. But nowhere in the Bible does it say "You can''t help other people if you have flaws or commit a sin." I''m pretty sure nobody would be in a leadership position then!

And I''d worry that b) he''s going to cave into social pressure whenever it''s forcefully applied. That''s bad news bears.

If it''s not true, and you''re doing this because you feel you have no other choice: Woman! You wouldn''t be able to sing in the choir for a year. There are still hymns in church, even if you''re not in the choir! There are still CDs of praise music out there to sing at home if that''s what you want to do.

But if you do this - own it. Realize you''re getting married because somebody else told you to. I''m sorry, but adults make major decisions on their own time and for their own reasons. Yes, people will think you were forced into this because you let yourself be forced into it. They can''t actually MAKE you do this. They''re trying to control you for the sake of their own appearance and you''re letting them.

 

[zipzapgirl]

So here''s what I see. There are three choices, and some of them are mutually exclusive for the time being.

Church, Marriage & Moving In

Based on what you said in your second post, I do not think that the youth minister and your mother care so much about whether you and fiance can or do have sex--they really can''t control that unless they were with you every minute of the day. BUT, they do care about PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY. That means that even if it is unlikely that you are actually obeying the church rules to a T, they can still point to how things look on paper and say, "Well of course Jaylex and Mr. Jaylex to Be are living apart. Jaylex lives here and he lives there--they just spend a LOT of time together." Wink wink OR *blank innocent look*. Their major concern is that you *look like* you live apart. I think if you continue to get your mail at your parents'' house, keep your clothes there, and sleep in your bed at least 5 nights a week (when you aren''t "crashing on someone''s couch"), you''ve got this covered.

I think this has gone overboard in the wrong direction.

You''ve got the choice to "take a break" from the band until next year. Just don''t make a big deal about it, do some other hobbies and don''t let everyone blow it up into a huge issue. No confrontation necessary and you get to move in as you wish.

OR, you can do the pretend living at home as i described above. It might not be your ideal choice, but it''s only a year and as your mother said, you can basically spend all of your time over there. Church band life goes on as normal and you get to plan your wedding at your pace with no forced hand. This is a satisficing option where everyone gets just enough of what they want to be ok with it.

What I don''t think you should do is get married next week. It puts you in a bad spot with the secret marriage and makes the church and your mother happy--but what about YOU?

Maybe I''m reading this wrong, but you seem to be tired of living with your parents and ready to start your life with your fiance. If the issue is that you don''t want to live at home anymore, then find a female roommate and move out. Sometimes the price of freedom is RENT

 

[caribqueen]

Date: 5/12/2010 3:40:28 PM
Author: lilyfoot
Jaylex, as I said before, whether or not you and your fiance choose to ''act'' married, in your hearts, you will know that you are married.

As someone who just got married 2.5 weeks ago, I can tell you that these first couple of weeks of being married have been great, and I am really looking forward to the rest of our ''first year of marriage''. Though nothing has actually changed (besides my last name), I still know in my soul that we are now married (as will you). I would not give up my first year of marriage for any person or organization. You will be giving up your first year of marriage, there is no way to get it back once it''s gone.

You really need to rethink this. If getting married this year was what you wanted, it would''ve been your original plan!

For lack of better words, you''re going to need to grow some b*lls, and handle this situation like a real woman, and a real team with your future husband.

Five years from now, will any of these people meddling in your life remember this or even care? But you will and you may regret decisions you made based on what others have dictated.

Dare I say it, you are also very young. And your post seems like you''re all over the place and just mixed up as to what to do. I think you need to think about this a little while longer.

I''ll also add that because of my circle, I know a lot of couples who got married before their set date because of loss of benefits or moving to a new city and one has a job but not the other - stuff like that. The only people they told were their parents and officiant. But the time between the legal ceremony and the one for family was only a matter of months in all of those instances, not a whole year.

I''m religious, but the minute my church starts dictating how I should live my life outside of good ethics and honesty, I''m out and on to a new church.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 5/12/2010 3:53:44 PM
Author: princesss
Jaylex, it sounds from your post like this is something your FI wants to do because he's uncomfortable standing up for himself/his wants/your decisions as a couple. Is that accurate? Your post screams 'I don't want to do this,' but you seem to be accepting it, and I'm wondering if that's more for your FI's sake than because you don't want to rock the boat with church leadership.

If that's true, I'd worry that a) he's going into marriage without being ready to put his partner above everything and everybody else in the world. Church leadership is filled with people. Flawed, pained, people (and in the case of your particular youth pastor, people who want control). This policy of kicking people out of leadership positions until they 'rectify the situation' is made by people. Is it based on a religious principle? Yes. But nowhere in the Bible does it say 'You can't help other people if you have flaws or commit a sin.' I'm pretty sure nobody would be in a leadership position then!

And I'd worry that b) he's going to cave into social pressure whenever it's forcefully applied. That's bad news bears.

If it's not true, and you're doing this because you feel you have no other choice: Woman! You wouldn't be able to sing in the choir for a year. There are still hymns in church, even if you're not in the choir! There are still CDs of praise music out there to sing at home if that's what you want to do.

But if you do this - own it. Realize you're getting married because somebody else told you to. I'm sorry, but adults make major decisions on their own time and for their own reasons. Yes, people will think you were forced into this because you let yourself be forced into it. They can't actually MAKE you do this. They're trying to control you for the sake of their own appearance and you're letting them.

Agreed. From your posts it sounds like you're being pressured/shamed/forced into marriage against your will (Obviously not entirely, since you're engaged and plan to marry in the future) and that you aren't happy about it. My goodness, when we got married, everyone wanted me to shut up I was so excited to talk about it and I wouldn't stop talking about it.

I also think that you need to think about this. Would stepping out of choir really be such a terrible thing? I mean, is one year of choir really that much more important than a year of living together without being married?

From what I'm getting from your posts (these and previous ones) the most important thing to you is moving out of your house. If you have to get married to do it unashamedly, then you'll get married. You know, I was in similar shoes at 19. I wanted NOTHING MORE than to leave my parent's house and move in with my boyfriend. So I did it. They frowned upon it, they tried to talk me out of it, but I did it anyway. I'm really glad I did because it was the push I needed to see we weren't right together. I'm not saying this is the situation for you and your FI, just my experience. What I am saying is that I did what was right for me. I was not pushed into something I didn't want to do. I did what I wanted to do, yes it was a mistake, but I owned up to it, and I'm still glad I did it.

I think you need to decide what is really important to you jaylex. I think you need to sit down and think hard about what you're going to look back and NOT regret. Honestly, if my parents had tried to push me into getting married before I moved in with my ex, I would have been absolutely livid. And if I had caved to the pressure, I would have regretted it in a big way, although I wouldn't have known what I know now then.

Getting married a year later because you love someone and want to be with that person for the rest of your life is the "right" reason. Getting married a year earlier than planned because you want to stay in a choir is not the "right" reason.

You might say, after reading the last thing that I wrote, "Well, just so long as I get married to the person I want to spend the rest of my life with, what does it matter when we get married?" To answer that, it doesn't matter when you get married. But you have to be the one making that decision. Not your youth pastor.

If you said, "Guys! I'm getting married in 9 days because I love my FI, and I want to be with him, and screw the deposits and the big wedding!" then this would be a very different thread.

There was a line from Jeff Von Vanderen (the Interventionist on Intervention) that I heard the other day and he said something along these lines: "People don't hide things they aren't ashamed of." Hiding your marriage for a year is something you want to do because you don't want to be known as the couple who got married because the youth pastor made them. Peer pressure. Think about it.

 

[megumic]

This is a tough one.

One distinction I have a hard time with -- the Christian religions say "no sex before marriage." How is that the same as "don''t live together before marriage"?? If your mom would let him move into the guest room, how is that different? Because she''s there to supervise so no sex happens?

I honestly think you and your FI should do what''s right for you - not what''s right for everyone else. This is YOUR marriage. If you don''t take control and assert it right now, you''re never going to have it.

 

[choro72]

We were legally married Jan 2009, had our Japan wedding Aug 2009, and had our US wedding Feb 2010. That''s more than a year after we were legally married. Like you, I wanted the weddings to be special so we didn''t make a big announcement after our paperwork. I didn''t wear the wedding ring everyday until recently.

The difference between you and me is, when we tell people our story it goes like "We have 3 anniversaries to celebrate, we got to say our vows 3 times, and we got to dress up 3 times!!". It wasn''t what we originally planned, but it was a decision that we made. We don''t say "We had to get married because of Green Card problems, and my IL wanted this and that," etc. We don''t even think of it that way, and we most certainly didn''t hide it from anyone.

This is your wedding and a beginning of your marriage. If you are going to describe it as "We got married because our church and my mom made us.", don''t do it.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 5/12/2010 3:19:15 PM
Author: monkeyprincess
Jaylex, your most recent post makes it clear that you are not mature enough to be getting married in nine days. Why in the world would you push your wedding date up just to stay in a band with the very youth pastor who is trying to dictate when you get married?

ETA: That came across more harshly than I intended. But I really hope you think long and hard about this decision. It does not sound like a good idea to me. When to get married is a decision you and your fiance need to make, and you should never allow someone to make an important decision like this for you.

Agreed 100%. This is just crazy, seriously. You DON''T WANT THIS and you''ve said so several times in both of your posts.

It''s time to grow up and not let your parents and a pastor dictate your life. You know what you want and it''s not this.

 

[House Cat]

How does your FI feel about all of this...really? Has he expressed unhappiness about being forced to get married before 2011? Have the two of you had a chance to sit down and really talk about your feelings in the midst of this hurricane? If not, please do this ASAP, speak honestly and from the heart. This conversation should reveal your truths and a plan of action that works for both of you.

The two of you will have to face much adversity together over the years. This issue is just the tip of the iceberg. I''m not so certain the two of you want people pushing you around from the start.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 5/12/2010 3:55:25 PM
Author: zipzapgirl

You've got the choice to 'take a break' from the band until next year. Just don't make a big deal about it, do some other hobbies and don't let everyone blow it up into a huge issue. No confrontation necessary and you get to move in as you wish.

OR, you can do the pretend living at home as i described above. It might not be your ideal choice, but it's only a year and as your mother said, you can basically spend all of your time over there. Church band life goes on as normal and you get to plan your wedding at your pace with no forced hand. This is a satisficing option where everyone gets just enough of what they want to be ok with it.

What I don't think you should do is get married next week. It puts you in a bad spot with the secret marriage and makes the church and your mother happy--but what about YOU?

Jaylex, I'm so sorry you've been put in this position. That was nasty and manipulative of your mother to tell the pastor.

I think zipzapgirl gave you some really good advice. I can totally understand how the community that your church provides you is extremely important, even if you do not believe 100% in all of their restrictions. However, rushing to get married is not your only option here.

Even if you decide to move the wedding up, does it have to be so soon? Why not at least take a few months to sort things out.

 

[allycat0303]

Jaylex,

Well this is tough. From what I understand, the church is a big part of your life. I can understand this because I was raised Mormon, and for a long time, the chruch was a big part of my life. It sounds to me that you are the most upset at your mother, and this is completely understandable. That being said (and yes, it was pretty darn manipulative/hypocritical of her to pull this stunt on you), I don''t think anything can change this situation at this point.

You need to decide what is more important to you, your position at the church or getting married the way you want. Perhaps you will have to step down from your choir position for a while, but I doubt it will be permenant. You will probably sing in the choir again, once all of the fuss has died down. So it''s not much of a difficult decision for me. I think that churches have a standard for role models and ideals they want to uphold. That is the very definition of a church. As an organized religion, I think they have a right to determing who they feel best represents them in a leadership role. Although you only wanted to sing, you are unfortunately in a leadership position. I''m not going to comment on whether or not their position is right/outdated etc., but that''s their position. Whether you want to conform to their norms is in your position. However, I believe in doing everything to create a win-win situation. And having been raised as a strict Mormon, I can tell you that ALL scandals eventually die down. Even the one''s that seem impossible to comprehend in the moment. Good luck!

 

[havernell]

Date: 5/12/2010 2:53:08 PM
Author: jaylex

Besides that, I guess the church consistory has a rule that if members in leadership roles decide to live a life that is outside the churches values, they need to step down from their roles until the behavior is corrected.

Based on what you said above, you could "take a break" from the band for a year, get married in May 2011, and then rejoin the band in June 2011 (as Zipzapgirl implied).

Taking a break from the band for a year seems *a lot* more rational to me than rushing into marriage in 9 days.

 

[havernell]

Also, as others have asked, is there a reason you both couldn't move out of your parents' houses but find same-sex apartment mates to live with for the year? I don't see how "moving out" has to equal "living together."

 

[Haven]

Date: 5/12/2010 6:42:11 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 5/12/2010 3:19:15 PM
Author: monkeyprincess
Jaylex, your most recent post makes it clear that you are not mature enough to be getting married in nine days. Why in the world would you push your wedding date up just to stay in a band with the very youth pastor who is trying to dictate when you get married?

ETA: That came across more harshly than I intended. But I really hope you think long and hard about this decision. It does not sound like a good idea to me. When to get married is a decision you and your fiance need to make, and you should never allow someone to make an important decision like this for you.

Agreed 100%. This is just crazy, seriously. You DON''T WANT THIS and you''ve said so several times in both of your posts.

It''s time to grow up and not let your parents and a pastor dictate your life. You know what you want and it''s not this.

This. Yes. Thritto. Double ditto. I completely agree. I emphatically concur.

It frightens me that you are thinking about getting married very soon based on so many things that you''ve shared in this thread, but most importantly on this: You do not want to be getting married quite yet.

I want to share that the happiest people I know, (and I pay very close attention to happy people because my primary goal in life is to remain as happy as I am, which is extremely, thankyouverymuch) are the people who make choices based on their own true and honest beliefs. Period. I fear for your happiness if you allow others to make these very big decisions for you.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

If you feel like you have to obey your churches orders to be married before you live together then fine, but i would be sticking it to the church and your mother and get married in a courthouse with only your witness in attendance, then have the real church wedding next year. I think you should tell people that you are married though, and WHY you had to get married.

This really isn't a decision you should be letting other people make for you. You need to be doing it on your own terms.

ETA: I had a friend who didn't live with her fiance before they got married and they both still lived with their parents (he used to sleep on the floor of her bedroom, too cute!) But, they bought a house together about 6 months before they got married. They set the home up and he moved in, she would stay during the day, eat dinner with him, etc, but would go home at night to sleep. Maybe this is something that you could look in to doing?

 

[missjaxon]

Date: 5/13/2010 1:26:48 AM
Author: hawaiianorangetree
If you feel like you have to obey your churches orders to be married before you live together then fine, but i would be sticking it to the church and your mother and get married in a courthouse with only your witness in attendance, then have the real church wedding next year. I think you should tell people that you are married though, and WHY you had to get married.


This really isn't a decision you should be letting other people make for you. You need to be doing it on your own terms.


ETA: I had a friend who didn't live with her fiance before they got married and they both still lived with their parents (he used to sleep on the floor of her bedroom, too cute!) But, they bought a house together about 6 months before they got married. They set the home up and he moved in, she would stay during the day, eat dinner with him, etc, but would go home at night to sleep. Maybe this is something that you could look in to doing?

This is what my FI's Catholic sister-in-law did before marrying his brother and it worked fine for them.

I also think that keeping it a secret is a bad idea on all accounts. I was in a different situation where our venue booked us for our wedding date and then over-booked the date giving us no option but to take the day after, so after working with the venue we decided we would do our legal ceremony the night before and have the wedding the next day. At first I thought what is the difference if the paper work is a technicality that gives us our original date and then we get to say our vows in front of our family and friends and have our actual ceremony/reception the next day. However after thinking it over and a few wise perspectives of other PSers, I realized that it is a big deal to both us and our guests and we have nothing to hide so we let all of our friends and family know about our situation and they were more than happy for us to legally be married the night before with a date symbolizing our 10 years together before marriage (10-10-10) as planned and to celebrate the wedding with us the next day.

This is however different from your situation because this is something my fiance and I both chose to do together and were not forced into it. I believe that you should be following your own beliefs and decisions that are best for both you and your fiance and be prepared to deal with the consequences should there be any. These are adult decisions and marriage is definitely a serious commitment that in my mind should not be taken lightly nor entered into out of circumstance.

I wish you all the best and hope that you make a decision that is best for you and your fiance and that you are happy.

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

To be quite frank, the idea of moving up your wedding date - a covenant between you, your husband and God - so you can stay in a band for one year when it''s not even your source of income is about the most ridiculous thing I''ve heard in a while. Nobody is making you do this. It''s crazy to get married when you don''t want to, for ANY reason, much less this one. We''re not talking about loss of income or being thrown out of the church or even the threat to your mortal soul... we are talking about not being able to sing on stage on Sunday for a year.

1. You could go sing at a different church. Believe me - there are plenty of churches who''d appreciate the boost in talent.

2. You could find other roommates.

3. You could just go ahead with your original plans and take a break from performing until your real wedding.

4. And about a million better choices than the one you are making.

Do not get married because someone else told you to. This IS your real marriage, whether you call him your fiance or not, whether you change your name or not. You will be married when you sign the paper. Don''t throw away the happiness of a wedding day and the happiness of your first year of marriage with this nonsense. Wait until you are ready to make this life changing commitment!

 

[Lozza]

Hi Jaylex

I am so sorry that you have been put into this position. Only you can decide which option is the most appealing to you out of staying at home for another year, moving in with your FI and accepting the consequences of the church, or getting married when it''s not what you want.

But I will say this. I have dealth with controlling people before, and the only thing that will make them stop is realising that they can no longer control you. If you do what they want this time, where does it stop? They couold make you get married against your will (which is a huge deal), so trying to make you have children, donate lots of money to the church, buy a house near your mother etc... all becomes a possibility.

If I was in this same situation, I would move in with my FI and step down from my positions in the church. Not just because that would be what I want, but because it also tells the others that they can try all they like, but they can''t force you to do something you don''t want to do.

 

[oddoneout]

Date: 5/12/2010 10:26:42 AM
Author: monkeyprincess
Obviously, I don''t know your situation or what positions you hold in the church, but I find it odd that you are letting someone else dictate when and how you get married against your wishes. This is a decision that only you and your fiance should make. If the problem is living together before marriage, and your church beliefs are so important to you, then why were you considering moving in before marriage anyway? And if your church beliefs are not so important to you that you were willing to move in before marriage, then why does it matter if you get ousted from your positions in the church? Do you really want to belong to a church that is forcing you to do something you don''t want to do. I''m very confused, but I do wish you the best.

I agree as well. It is your (and your FI''s) lives and you shouldn''t let other''s tell you what is best for you.

 

[oddoneout]

Date: 5/12/2010 3:53:44 PM
Author: princesss
Jaylex, it sounds from your post like this is something your FI wants to do because he''s uncomfortable standing up for himself/his wants/your decisions as a couple. Is that accurate? Your post screams ''I don''t want to do this,'' but you seem to be accepting it, and I''m wondering if that''s more for your FI''s sake than because you don''t want to rock the boat with church leadership.


If that''s true, I''d worry that a) he''s going into marriage without being ready to put his partner above everything and everybody else in the world. Church leadership is filled with people. Flawed, pained, people (and in the case of your particular youth pastor, people who want control). This policy of kicking people out of leadership positions until they ''rectify the situation'' is made by people. Is it based on a religious principle? Yes. But nowhere in the Bible does it say ''You can''t help other people if you have flaws or commit a sin.'' I''m pretty sure nobody would be in a leadership position then!


And I''d worry that b) he''s going to cave into social pressure whenever it''s forcefully applied. That''s bad news bears.


If it''s not true, and you''re doing this because you feel you have no other choice: Woman! You wouldn''t be able to sing in the choir for a year. There are still hymns in church, even if you''re not in the choir! There are still CDs of praise music out there to sing at home if that''s what you want to do.


But if you do this - own it. Realize you''re getting married because somebody else told you to. I''m sorry, but adults make major decisions on their own time and for their own reasons. Yes, people will think you were forced into this because you let yourself be forced into it. They can''t actually MAKE you do this. They''re trying to control you for the sake of their own appearance and you''re letting them.

I agree also. You are letting yourself be controlled.

 

[Treasure43]

Jaylax, it sounds like you are pretty unhappy about this turn of events. Now, obviously, I understand that your church is important to you and that your positions in the band are very important to you. However, it doesn''t seem like the church and your mother have YOUR best interests in mind. It sounds like they want to "save face" in the church community. This is where YOU need to keep YOUR and your FI''s best interests in mind and do what''s right for YOU. I hate to say this, but you are very young and I can imagine that this make the situation even more difficult. I grew up with a very controlling mother and the only way to deal with people who want to control you is to do what YOU want and stand your ground.

If you decide you want to get married and then renew your vows next year, that is perfectly fine. Just make sure it''s what is best for you and don''t be pressured into it by the church, your mother, or anyone else. I would HIGHLY reccomend NOT getting married in 9 days. Either way, you need time to think and you and your FI need to talk before you make any decisions. You want to be 100% sure that getting married sooner than you had planned is what''s best for you before you do it.

Now obviously, none of us can make these decisions for you but I don''t think any of us want you to make a hasty decision that you may regret later on in life.

Please, please stand up for yourself!!!

 

[rhbgirl24]

Date: 5/12/2010 10:37:41 PM
Author: havernell

Date: 5/12/2010 2:53:08 PM

Author: jaylex


Besides that, I guess the church consistory has a rule that if members in leadership roles decide to live a life that is outside the churches values, they need to step down from their roles until the behavior is corrected.

Based on what you said above, you could ''take a break'' from the band for a year, get married in May 2011, and then rejoin the band in June 2011 (as Zipzapgirl implied).


Taking a break from the band for a year seems *a lot* more rational to me than rushing into marriage in 9 days.

BIG HUGE DITTO! Its absurd to me that the church would basically make you get married before you planned. If it was me, I''d say see ya to the church. But I understand you aren''t going to do that, so this is a PERFECT way for you to have PRIDE in your own decisions and live by the church.....

 

[turboflgrl]

Oh Jaylex.... this is such a horrible situation to be in and believe me, I completely understand all too well. I was actually told that I could not be a member of a church because my fiance and I are living in sin and that we were not welcome there. I was floored - and it wasn''t the only church that told me that. But, I know what I want in life and I know what goes on behind closed doors and what doesn''t..... the church can assume all they want (bunch of perverts if you ask me!).

In the end, you are willing to give up one of the most special times in your life to appease a church that you don''t speak highly about and are upset with. Who cares if you''ve been going there since you were little? I''d be much more sympathetic if these were your careers but it''s a position in a band.... trust me.... those aren''t hard to come by. You will and can find something else.

Trust the ladies on here and trust your heart. What you''re about to sacrifice, you will regret.... I can promise you that.

 

[HappyNewLife]

I read your original post and your update. All I can say is that I think it''s silly to let anyone (church, parents, friends, relatives, etc) tell you what''s right for your life if you''re not doing anything harmful to yourself or others. I personally would walk away from the church roles and stick with my 2011 wedding plans.

That''s just me though.

 

[lightningbug]

Date: 5/12/2010 2:53:08 PM
Author:
But whatever. I know this means a lot to my fiance and even though part of me wants to say ''eff you! we made our decision'' to everyone. I just want the two of us to be happy and safe. And I think this would be good for us.

Plus the extra tax refund, break on our car/medical/renters insurance, and shutting the inlaws mouths are perks! lol. just kidding.
But I guess part of me doesn''t want the stigma that comes with being married at 19, or the ''shot gun'' wedding. And the really stubborn part of me doesn''t want people to think i''m getting married just because the church told me I ''have to''.

Jalex, I''m pretty new here and don''t know you or your history. But I read both of your posts, and I wonder...is there a teensy, tiny, little part of you that is actually *excited* by the thought of getting married in 9 days? I wonder if your willingness to "reluctantly" play along with your mom and your youth pastor and be "forced" into an early marriage is a little bit of a pretext for doing something you secretly may be in favor of, deep down inside. I ask this because the tone of your posts reminds me of being a teenager and feeling relieved when my parents didn''t allow me to go out and do something shady with my friends that I didn''t really want to do anyway. I pitched a fit about them being controlling, but secretly I was a little glad.

Otherwise...I can''t fully understand how you could let other people dictate the terms of one of the most important decisions of your entire life.

No matter what, your mom''s meddling is amaaazing. She''s definitely trying to pull a power play here. She''s trying to steal one of your most important choices right out from under you.

Not many women would go along with that.

 

[Prana]

Why don''t you just move out, get married on 5/21/2011, and carry on with things as planned? Don''t even mention it to your pastor, let your mother go and rat you out again. Stick to your ground, do what is right for YOU, and when you are questioned about it, gladly stand up and speak your point, and why you decided to do what you did. I think that that is a better mentor than someone who gets forced into a marriage a year early so she can continue to be a ''role model'' for the younger folk.

Would you rather look up to someone who was asked to step down from their leadership position for something they believed in, or someone who was strong-armed into something and caved in?

 

[PumpkinPie]

I think everyone has given really great advice so far, so I`m not going to offer any more- anything I have to say has already been repeatedly and eloquently said.

However, I will share that this reminds me of a situation that a friend of mine was in. She and her boyfriend were very religious, enthusiastically involved with the youth group but having unprotected sex (because being religious they were certain that they were NOT going to have sex.. until they did... multiple times... with no birth control around... yippee for abstinence only education). Regardless, when they discover that she`s pregnant (of course!) he decides that to be `righteous` and follow the `Christian way` and in my opinion, save face, he will not live with her, but rather insisted that she live alone with the baby and he would visit after work in the evening. In my opinion, the time to be focused on how righteous they looked was long past. I quickly asked her if she was insane, and suggested that this plan not go forward. They decided on a quick wedding instead.

While I know many of the details of this story do not match yours, it is a similar case of the emphasis by many churches on `the way things look` rather than necessarily the way things are or even what is best for people - if you follow through for the sake of appearance, you will be sacrificing a great deal.

 

[turboflgrl]

Date: 5/13/2010 11:35:16 PM
Author: Maevie

While I know many of the details of this story do not match yours, it is a similar case of the emphasis by many churches on `the way things look` rather than necessarily the way things are or even what is best for people - if you follow through for the sake of appearance, you will be sacrificing a great deal.

Excellent post! I''d like to also add that people can see right through "the way things look" pretty easily. It won''t be hard for people to figure out that you only got married early because your church forced you. To me, that''s pretty sad.