EGL International Reports Please help

[heididdl]

Hi I am buying two diamonds that have EGL international certificates with them. I have seen the stones in person and they are very clean even under microscope and extrememly brillant. That being said I also know that EGL is at least two grades lower in color and one in clarity. I paid cash $8,000 for these stones. Please give opinion.

Please see the attached I couldn't figure out how to get it on this form without it being attachment

 

[denverappraiser]

If you've already bought them and you want to know what the grades are, hire a grader and ask. There's a list of appraisers at the top of the page under the 'Resources' tab and there may be one in your neighborhood.

 

[heididdl]

they are actually on layaway haven't picked them up yet

 

[heididdl]

No I was hoping PS ers would look at the grades on the forms and tell me if they actually look like they are an excellent cut or if the specs are off.....thank you

 

[denverappraiser]

EGL International is usually within 5 or 6 grades of what GIA would call a particular stone. Occasionally they agree exactly. Where yours lie in that range requires actually looking at the stones, not just the reports.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Heidi, I would honestly consider EGL international certificates about the same as ungraded stones with estimates of the specs. The only way to know is to have the stones sent to GIA for real grading or send them to an appraiser like Neil said. But I would never finalize a deal like that without doing one or the other because you could likely be overpaying in that deal of trade plus cash. We have seen EGL International be 4 to 5 grades off in color before, and that has tremendous impact on price. Were your traded stones GIA graded? If not, you really should have them appraised as well because the jeweler is the one with the big advantage in this deal.

(I see what Neil posted when I was typing, but I'll just send anyway.)

 

[diamonds-are-friends]

buying EGL diamonds is a roll of the dice with odds stacked heavily against your favor. The end result is usually not winning but rather, the degree of loss suffered. The thing about asking for opinions after you paid for the diamonds (even knowingly know that EGL undergrades diamonds) shows that you might be having second thoughts and probably worried about the purchase.

Unfortunately, you probably won't get any words of encouragement here with EGL stones. If i were you, i would stick to GIA diamonds.

 

[heididdl]

I went to make a payment and visit my earrings here are the first photos. It is a little embarassing asking them to take pictures of me in them lol

OMG my nails look terrible and how do I flip the photo

 

[heididdl]

Diamondseeker I do value your comments and I have been so fustrated. I spent the entire day tuesday with diamond guys looking at GIA certified stones, knowing that the ones I bought were in the back of my mind (and EGL int''l certificates). all the diamonds I saw had carbon inclusions I1 and 1 color around 2.06 2.11 I saw about 6 different pairs between three ifferent recommended diamond sellers that DONOT sell to individuals unless friends or family.

I selfishly wanted more.

I took everything you guys have taught me here and decided to buy these EGL stones. I took my 30x loupe with me and one has small carbon inclusions near the culet but eye clean and he other has internal pin pricks (ifyou will)

But they are so brillant the cut is just beautiful and they are "big".

So I compromised with the budget that I have.

I understand that PS particpants are looking for the best cut diamonds and the best deals but I had to compromise when I I read the negative comments it makes me cry and I just want to be happy with my purchse.

That being said I will have them GIA certified on my own but at that point I will al ready own them and is it worth it will I be more upset if they four levels lower. Maybe I don't want to know and just injoy them?????

 

[heididdl]

Everything I have read except for alll your comments say that EGL certiicates are 2 grades lower in color and 1 grade lower in quality that makes my stones

stone 1 F color to H
s1 quality to s12

stone 2 G color to I
s11 to s12


So I have been looking at GIA stones that are 2.04 -2.11 all are I-J-K and S13 top I1

so that's how I base my decision ...........the cut measurements all fall within AGS = 2A

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, I was writing my post below before I read your latest posts, so I will answer some of those in my next post.

When I post pictures, I have to have them in the right position in My Pictures before it will let me post them in the correct position.

They look nice in the pictures. But that really cannot tell us a thing about whether they are worth what you paid. Before pricescope, I bought a pair of 1.5 ctw studs from a jeweler that said they were H SI1. At that time, I was too trusting and didn't even think to check them with a loupe, not that I would have known what to look for anyway! Later on, after PS, I was worried about their quality and took them to other jewelers to consider an upgrade, and I was told by two different jewelers that they were possibly H color but they were I1 clarity. The cut really was pretty good. But they were not mind clean for me because I do not care for I1 diamonds. You will almost always overpay for uncertified and any stones not graded by GIA or AGS. Those stones seem to be a better deal because they cost less than GIA stones of the same grade, but you may be still paying for a higher grade than they actually are. I learned my lesson and will never buy stones that aren't graded by AGS or GIA unless it is an antique ring that I can have appraised.

 

[heididdl]

thanks denverappraiser I will have an independant guy look at them

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Everything I have read except for alll your comments say that EGL certiicates are 2 grades lower in color and 1 grade lower in quality that makes my stones

stone 1 F color to H
s1 quality to s12

stone 2 G color to I
s11 to s12


So I have been looking at GIA stones that are 2.04 -2.11 all are I-J-K and S13 top I1

so that's how I base my decision ...........the cut measurements all fall within AGS = 2A

No, EGL USA averages two grades below GIA. EGL International is much less reliable and stones 4-5 grades lower than GIA have been posted here by people who have had stones graded by both. This is two different labs.

I am fine with the idea of EGL stones as long as they are appraised and you know what they are worth before paying. That is really all I am suggesting is that you make the deal contingent on an independent appraisal that grades them no lower than 2 color grades and 1 clarity grade lower than represented on the report. If the jeweler balks at that, then I would back out of the deal quickly! But you need to know value on your trade-in diamonds, too.

 

[LibbyLA]

Everything I have read except for alll your comments say that EGL certiicates are 2 grades lower in color and 1 grade lower in quality that makes my stones

stone 1 F color to H
s1 quality to s12

stone 2 G color to I
s11 to s12


So I have been looking at GIA stones that are 2.04 -2.11 all are I-J-K and S13 top I1

so that's how I base my decision ...........the cut measurements all fall within AGS = 2A

Heidi,

There are lots of posts here about EGL (especially EGL International) being unpredictable and inconsistent (i.e., you can't just assume 2 color grades lower and 1 clarity grades lower). You have no idea what your diamonds are. They may grade the same at GIA or they may be several color and clarity grades off.

Also, GIA does not have an SI3 grade.

liz

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Diamondseeker I do value your comments and I have been so fustrated. I spent the entire day tuesday with diamond guys looking at GIA certified stones, knowing that the ones I bought were in the back of my mind (and EGL int''l certificates). all the diamonds I saw had carbon inclusions I1 and 1 color around 2.06 2.11 I saw about 6 different pairs between three different recommended diamond sellers that DO NOT sell to individuals unless friends or family.

I selfishly wanted more.

I took everything you guys have taught me here and decided to buy these EGL stones. I took my 30x loupe with me and one has small carbon inclusions near the culet but eye clean and he other has internal pin pricks (ifyou will)

But they are so brillant the cut is just beautiful and they are "big".

So I compromised with the budget that I have.

I understand that PS particpants are looking for the best cut diamonds and the best deals but I had to compromise when I I read the negative comments it makes me cry and I just want to be happy with my purchse.

That being said I will have them GIA certified on my own but at that point I will already own them and is it worth it will I be more upset if they four levels lower. Maybe I don't want to know and just enjoy them?????

Heidi, I hate to tell you this, too, but that is one of the biggest scams of all. These "wholesale" sellers who do special favors to friends and family are not doing you a bit of a favor. We have seen this too many times to count. We have seen bad deals and thankfully some guys were able to escape the deals or questioned the stones here first before buying.

I would back up and tell them you have changed your mind unless they will abide by the independent appraisal which lets you out of the deal if they are not worth what you think. I really would back out totally and then renegotiate price from scratch if you really love the diamonds.

 

[yssie]

Everything I have read except for alll your comments say that EGL certiicates are 2 grades lower in color and 1 grade lower in quality that makes my stones

stone 1 F color to H
s1 quality to s12

stone 2 G color to I
s11 to s12


So I have been looking at GIA stones that are 2.04 -2.11 all are I-J-K and S13 top I1

so that's how I base my decision ...........the cut measurements all fall within AGS = 2A

No, EGL USA averages two grades below GIA. EGL International is much less reliable and stones 4-5 grades lower than GIA have been posted here by people who have had stones graded by both. This is two different labs.

I am fine with the idea of EGL stones as long as they are appraised and you know what they are worth before paying. That is really all I am suggesting is that you make the deal contingent on an independent appraisal that grades them no lower than 2 color grades and 1 clarity grade lower than represented on the report. If the jeweler balks at that, then I would back out of the deal quickly! But you need to know value on your trade-in diamonds, too.

Ditto DS.

To the bolded part - no, absolutely no way to tell.

Numbers on those reports are averaged around eight sections of diamond and rounded to the nearest 1% (which is less precise than specifying an angular value). The range of measurements around the stone that can average and round to a given percent is HUGE - and without more information we can't possibly deduce anything as specific as what AGS might grade it (we couldn't anyway, given how AGS grades, but that's a different topic..)

Faceup pics of the stone that show the patterning clearly would tell us a lot more, but ultimately your plan of having them independently appraised is the best one. I'll be honest, I wouldn't advise you to hold your breath - as consumers there are no deals to be had by playing with reports. There may well *be* deals for those higher in the foodchain, but we consumers will never be the beneficiaries.

 

[donnabrsd]

If you know that you want to keep them and you love them, I would recommend not getting a GIA grading report. It does not matter what a report states if you love them!

I have an EGL USA 2.5ct stone and I love it!!! I picked it over many GIA graded stones that I viewed. I have had a few urges to take my stone to GIA (as it is only a 45 minute drive from me) but decided against it. For me, there is no reason to have it done.

If they are causing you more anxiety than happiness, then maybe it is best to return them if that is an option.

If returning is not an option and/or you want to keep them, think about how you felt when you decided to purchase them and just enjoy them.

 

[heididdl]

Just called Jeweler he said of course we can have them GIA certified....He also had a discussion with me about EGL International and yes he agrees they are very lenient with their subjective areas of grading. He also feels that the measurement aspect as objective as they are true measurements. The color and clarity of course is subjective would differ by grader.

He says (and again he has no problem with GIA certifing the stones or having an independent appraisal done) that he is the only real jewelery store (besides mall chain) Gary Michael manalapan, NJ and he is very decerning when buying his stones. He says that he would not purchase stones EGL or otherwise that were 4-5 grades lower.

He would be happy to give back the money I have already paid him if the appraisal comes back different but he believes that as we discussed probably H-I color and I1 clarity at the very least but that the cut is objective and pretty spot on

At this point I will have them appariased and I feel better after speaking with him

Thanks

 

[heididdl]

Donna thanks I can't shed tears over something I am so excite about it diminishes the fact that these are beautiful earrings larger than I had hoped for and very flashy. They are earrings not my engagment ring (which is GIa certified) . If I GIA certified these stones and they came back that they are garbage (again subjective) I would be heart broken better not knowing. But I will have them appraised indepenently for insurance purposes.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Heidi, I am not trying to take the joy out of your purchase! I am just trying to be sure you aren't spending more than you should even if you want to keep these. Above you said you were considering these one grade lower in clarity...SI2. That is a huge price difference over I1. You cannot determine a fair price for these without knowing what they are. There is a big difference if they are H SI2 or I I1!
You are giving the jeweler too much advantage to say you are okay if GIA grades them I1.

I am going to see if I can find any price comps for those two color/clarity levels.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, here is a 1.20 GIA XXX with great numbers in H SI2 at $6249 (although we don't know if it is eyeclean):

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-3450354-1.20-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-SI2-Clarity.aspx?sku=3450354&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

I see several 1.2 H SI2's GIA XXX ranging in the $6-7k range.

1.2 I SI2's running in the mid $5k range for GIA XXX:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-3193263-1.21-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-SI2-Clarity.aspx?sku=3193263&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

I am no able to access prices on I1 stones. So all I am saying is that a pair of GIA excellent stones at 1.2 H SI2 would run around $12,000-13,000.

A pair of I SI2 GIAX would run around $11,000.

If you have to pay $8000 toward this deal, that means your current stones would be valued from $3000 to $5000. But we don't know what they are really worth without an appraisal. If the new stones turn out to be I1, they are going to be worth a lot less than the stones I have posted above.

I hope this gives you a better idea of what to expect. The diamonds I listed are at the best possible prices, so your appraisal amounts likely would be inflated. So what you really want to know are the accurate color, clarity, and cut grades in order to compare prices.

 

[kenny]

If you know that you want to keep them and you love them, I would recommend not getting a GIA grading report. It does not matter what a report states if you love them!

I have an EGL USA 2.5ct stone and I love it!!! I picked it over many GIA graded stones that I viewed. I have had a few urges to take my stone to GIA (as it is only a 45 minute drive from me) but decided against it. For me, there is no reason to have it done.

If they are causing you more anxiety than happiness, then maybe it is best to return them if that is an option.

If returning is not an option and/or you want to keep them, think about how you felt when you decided to purchase them and just enjoy them.

If you love the diamond you love it.
Nobody can argue with that.

BUT, the price is based on color and clarity grades.
In some cases a few grades (not visible to 99% of the public) can double or half the price.

So, what does matter is the price paid.
The seller determines the price and the buyer just trusts the word of the seller on the grades.
Ambiguous grading benefits the seller, not the buyer.

So yes go ahead and love your diamond, but chances are you paid too much because it was not graded by a lab that can be trusted.

Good grading protects the customer.
Loose grading helps the seller make more money.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Found one...1.23 H I1 GIA Excellent cut at $4508. So you could actually buy a pair of these at $9000 and not trade in your current stones at all.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-3483015-1.23-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-I1-clarity.aspx

Again, your stones may be fine, but you might need to renegotiate your deal based on the actual GIA grades. I'd allow maybe 10% higher prices for a brick and mortar jeweler.

 

[heididdl]

Okay so regarding my earrings I had literally 6 jewelers including the one that I am purchasing these studs with offer $2.000 for my current studs (I even went back to where I bought them on 47th street same deal) that being said.

I think the stones I am about to buy (I know you should me b2c which usually is less then WF or JA) are not as nice as the ones I am considering.

The first stone GIA H s12 is almost the same shape as one of my stones.

So you know what I value the pair I am buying at about between 9-10,000 money $8.000 laid out plus my stones.

I think I am happy.

 

[denverappraiser]

Just called Jeweler he said of course we can have them GIA certified....He also had a discussion with me about EGL International and yes he agrees they are very lenient with their subjective areas of grading. He also feels that the measurement aspect as objective as they are true measurements. The color and clarity of course is subjective would differ by grader.

He says (and again he has no problem with GIA certifing the stones or having an independent appraisal done) that he is the only real jewelery store (besides mall chain) Gary Michael manalapan, NJ and he is very decerning when buying his stones. He says that he would not purchase stones EGL or otherwise that were 4-5 grades lower.

He would be happy to give back the money I have already paid him if the appraisal comes back different but he believes that as we discussed probably H-I color and I1 clarity at the very least but that the cut is objective and pretty spot on

At this point I will have them appariased and I feel better after speaking with him

Thanks

Ok then. Problem solved. I want to second the above advice for buying what you like. This is all haggling over the price.

By the way, EGLI called them G/SI1 and F/SI1 respectively. The dealer is calling them I/I1. That's 4 and 5 grades different, 5 and 6 if you include the EGL-SI3 clarity grade.

Ignore EGLI. You're now talking about a dealer grading of I/I-1. Shop against that. If you take him up on the GIA offer, make sure it's well understood what are acceptable results and who is responsible for GIA's fees if it comes back unacceptable. GIA's fees are published on their website. If the deal goes through it's entirely fair that you should pay the fees (as well as shipping and insurance), I'm asking about what happens if it doesn't grade out as represented.

EGLI's scale for evaluating cut is quite different from GIA's and they are not directly comparable. They are what they are and they may indeed be lovely but the fact that EGLI called them 'excellent' does not mean that GIA will.

 

[heididdl]

true true thanks denver appraiser diamondseeker et al.......I will have an indepenant appraiser look at them. Not sure I am so interested anymore in gIA certified as I think these stones "ARe It" for me. Not going any larger in the future and they are on my ears. they look stunning on me et al. and If I do want to upgrade or certify them this jeweler as discussed would do it and I am happy to pay the $150- $200 to do it when i'm ready

already too much emotional turmoil over materialistic things . I think I will be happy and lucky to have 2.41 studs that shine.

by the way didn't even realize they are in martini settings didn't know how I felt about that but the fit my ears nice so what the hay...I won't change them

 

[yssie]

I wrote a long post to illustrate what I meant re. the numbers on the report being all but useless, but it sounds like you've made your decision so I'll refrain.

The purpose of this forum is to help people make educated decisions. We aren't saying that the stones aren't a good choice, or that you shouldn't let your eyes decide which stones are prettiest, we're saying that without more info - report, reputable independent appraisal - there's just no way to know what a fair price is. The idea of spending $8000 plus trade-in without fully understanding what you're buying and whether the cost is fair is... well, it's precisely what we spend countless hours posting tens of thousands of times to try to help people avoid, so I'm giving up on trying to make sense of this.

Please get all agreements about returns and future trade-ins/upgrades with your jeweller in writing, signed by both of you.


ETA: Donna - I do think your situation was very different b/c you were dealing with EGL USA.

 

[heididdl]

Yssie thank you so much Yssie and all of you that responded. I started out believing that I could contain myself and compromise to get GIA certified studs for 2.20 $11,000 but it seems that I was destined to spend that cash for studs ideal about the same size as I have now 2.05.

I guess what I realized about my self that brillance and size was what mattered the most to me. So I will put my head between my legs and enjoy these earrings that I bought . Since I have given him 8,000 in cash already on a layway this week I doubt if I had them GIA certified or had another appraiser look at them that he would take them back.

that being said they are stunning on my ears so I am thankful for all your words, and hardwork. but I guess I will just throw out my loupe and not look inside the stones and just enjoy the sparkle that will cover my entire earlope

Thanks so much you alll

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yssie thank you so much Yssie and all of you that responded. I started out believing that I could contain myself and compromise to get GIA certified studs for 2.20 $11,000 but it seems that I was destined to spend that cash for studs ideal about the same size as I have now 2.05.

I guess what I realized about my self that brillance and size was what mattered the most to me. So I will put my head between my legs and enjoy these earrings that I bought . Since I have given him 8,000 in cash already on a layway this week I doubt if I had them GIA certified or had another appraiser look at them that he would take them back.

that being said they are stunning on my ears so I am thankful for all your words, and hardwork. but I guess I will just throw out my loupe and not look inside the stones and just enjoy the sparkle that will cover my entire earlope

Thanks so much you alll

!

Heidi, I sincerely am happy for you that you found stones you like and hope it all works out in your favor! I am glad the jeweler is willing to have them GIA certified so you'll know how they are graded so you can be sure your pricing is fair. I'd really give him no lower than I SI2 as the limit to let you out of the deal or reduce your price since I showed you that you can get GIA XXX 2.40 ctw I SI2's for $11k.