Engagement spoiled by Chinese Traditions

[sumi]

My husband's parents are from Hong Kong (DH was born/raised in the US) so I know a little bit about all the Chinese superstitions. I also know a little about Chinese mother-in-laws. Don't get me wrong, my MIL is a very sweet woman. All I have to say is that anyone who still thinks that Asian women are submissive has never met a Chinese woman!

My wedding was very small, only immediate family in a garden wedding. We were planning on throwing a Chinese reception about a month after our actual wedding date to please my MIL. I wasn't keen on the idea of a huge reception, but my MIL threw a fit when she found out we weren't planning on having one. My MIL planned the whole thing herself. However, my husband was able to explain to her that it was our wedding and we should be able to determine how we want to get married. We never ended up having the reception. We were very selfish with our wedding and had everything our way. I have a feeling that my MIL is a little resentful that we never had the party.

My MIL can't speak English, so usually my DH translates what she says. Let me say that this was one time that I was happy she couldn't speak English to me directly!

 

[Jaded Gem]

Oh boy, Sumi you are way too lucky!

Don't speak Chinese to speak to poor mother in law. Ahh, some people would think that would be a blessing in disguise.

Yeah, my husband is second generation ABC, and he couldn't speak a drop to save his life. Unfortunately, as a first generation ABC, I grew up speaking Cantonese, and spending four years studying Mandarin with one year in Beijing didn't help me disguise my lack of Chinese motor skills. You can say I am helluva lot scared of my MIL than anybody else on this whole planet. She is wonderful, but don't upset her or else you will feel her wrath. I've felt it once before, and I don't want to feel it again.

And I really hope she never learns how to work the internet or else I'm one fried egg foo young.

Yeah, she is struggling with finding a date for us, but I have to remember she's my MIL and it's her show. I got my Chinese wedding at my parents' Chinese restaurant this past summer (how ironic, not trying to promote any stereotypes, but all my family on both sides are in the Chinese restaurant business) so I was happy for me, my side of the family, and my friends who attended. I'll just let my husband deal with his side and his mom.

Anyway, I loved your story! You cracked me up, and I'm sure we could have a whole board talking about our "Joy Luck Clubs," but I guess this site is about diamonds and jewelry. Hey did you get a ton of 24K gold from your husband's side? I hope they didn't make you wear them all on your special day. I had refused to wear all the 24K jewelry that I got as wedding gifts because I did not want to look like Mr. T.

Don't get me wrong, I love Mr. T on the A-Team, but I wasn't going to be wearing pounds of 24K jewelry to impress either mothers or relatives.

I can only wear so many tons of gold, try to stay cool in the hot summer month of July, and keep the small size 1 silk red cheongsum from getting sweated on and riding up with those high slits on both sides. I don't even want to get started on that.

 

[sumi]

Our wedding was so small, we only had our immediate family there so I didn't get a lot of jewellery from my husband's side. (darn!

) My MIL did give me a beautiful jade necklace. I really love it. I hope I can pass it down as an heirloom piece.

I've had more than a few women tell me that it's a blessing in disguise that my MIL does not speak English. I have a feeling that we would be butting heads sometimes if we could communicate directly to each other. Overall, my DH does a good job of translating back and forth for us.

My children will be half Chinese and I hope they will learn Cantonese. I think it's pretty cool that they will be able to confide in their Grandmother in Cantonese. You know, when they get in trouble or something they can run to their Grandma and complain about their mean mommy! I think it'll be a neat bond that they can share.

 

[tomatoe]

hahaa i've the ugly gold chain necklace and bracelet from my mil when i got married. when my hubby gets back from his biz trip, i'll get the photos from his laptop and post them up! we can compare horror photos...

as for chinese women not being demure, even in ancient china when they had all the dynasties and feuding, the matriach was often a formidable woman.

 

[sumi]

by the way, tomatoe, is that your child on your avator. what a CUTIE PIE!!!

 

[Jaded Gem]

Yeah, two words or one name: EMPRESS DOWAGER!

Yeah, please post your jewelry! I got a million pieces myself. Some were okay, some I think I will pass down, and some I probably will only wear when I visit the person who gave it to me. You can only wear so many gold chain necklaces, jade, bracelets, earrings, rings, etc all at once without making a major fashion mistake.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/16/2004 2:15:57 PM Jaded Gem wrote:

/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/errrr.gif'> Anyway, I loved your story! You cracked me up, and I'm sure we could have a whole board talking about our 'Joy Luck Clubs,' but I guess this site is about diamonds and jewelry.
----------------

Actually, this read has been one of the most enlightening on PS. I'm not Asian - but really love traditions. They are a bond & usually rich in thought. And often extend to making an effort - something necessary for a happy life in general.

To Jaded with the lucky number 7, all I can add is that it is a lucky number in Hebrew. If I recall correctly, Hebrew letters have correlating equivalent numbers. Something about the Hebrew word for luck having numbers that sum totals 7. But, as far as a Chinese reason, can't add anything.

Tomatoe, I promise I will stop obsessing about the 44 years & only look forward to 77 years. Funny, 43 (sum = 7) was a good age.

 

[Jaded Gem]

C'mon fire and ice, don't worry about the age of 44. If you think about it and add both fours then you would get eight. Hey, so maybe this year is your prosperity "get rich" year. That is something positive to think about. Besides you are one ideal rock! You must have dispensed more advice than you can keep track of. And you are a model for newbies like me to follow especially since one can never know too much about diamonds and new cutting trends for an "ideal diamond". Us newbies, need guidance from ideal rocks like yourself. Yeah, I agree with you. I also enjoy posts that are carefree and fun to read, as well as write. I had a not so carefree post not too long ago, but this was a great discussion to get my mind off that and onto thinking about other problems or my mother in law's problem of picking out another date for the second reception. Any ideas? Any lucky Hebrew dates since I got that lucky 7 thang going on?

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/16/2004 5:39:02 PM Jaded Gem wrote:

C'mon fire and ice, don't worry about the age of 44. If you think about it and add both fours then you would get eight. Hey, so maybe this year is your prosperity 'get rich' year. That is something positive to think about. Besides you are one ideal rock!

and onto thinking about other problems or my mother in law's problem of picking out another date for the second reception. Any ideas? Any lucky Hebrew dates since I got that lucky 7 thang going on?

----------------

Yeah! That's the ticket 44 = 8! I feel luckier already!

And, flattery will get you everywhere!

July 7th

But, let this wise women advise that you leave the date up to your MIL. On a practical note, if things don't go smoothly, your not the heavy. Good luck - ain't MIL's grand!

 

[Jaded Gem]

Yeah girlfriend, you got that right, "I am not the heavy." I got no say. My extent is "Hi Moms, so what date have you picked out?" I think if I deviate any more than that then I would be in big trouble. And yes, mother in laws are grand. I wish I could pick July 7, 2004, but my grand MIL doesn't do weekdays and that day falls on a Wednesday, and she has already decided for a weekend rendez vous. What can you say? I won't become an Empress any time soon and I would rank my opinion as high as maybe an Empress' chambermaid. Anyway, I'll try to keep the cheesy Chinese tradition spirit alive with more wild and wacky numerology or 24K stories. Maybe we can all get a good laugh out of some of these wacky traditions. I always say a good laugh is the remedy for any bad day. What is the saying, "without the bitter, the bittersweet wouldn't be so sweet." Something like that...

 

[tomatoe]

sumi, i wish that was my baby girl.

but nah, its just a photo that i got off the net for an avatar.

she is a cutie isint she!!!

jaded gem. luckily, i only have 1 set of heavy gold MR. T-like necklace and bracelet. as for mother-in-laws, thank goodness mine is at least 5 hours away by plane! i do wish she'd made better use of the money by getting me something simple and elegant instead but oh well

F&I: do pardon the fact that i was too slow to point out that 4+4=8, but it was really cute how u were obessing about it. and it also made me think cos i'd never thought about it before in terms of age.

 

[Jaded Gem]

Hey Tomatoe, please post the lovely Mr. T jewelry that you got. Maybe it isn't that bad.

Yeah, I guess it's the thought that counts right?

I wish the family that got me my 24K wedding gifts had sort of consulted me or took me on their shopping trip so that I could pick out a style that I liked. Oh well. Or maybe all the 24K well wishers could have pooled their money and got me one thing because I can't wear five gold and/or jade necklaces all the time without feeling like a clown. Anyway, I guess this is just tradition. My mom had a ton of 24K and jade jewelry that was given to her also. I'm sure it's just "one of those thangs." Anyway, funny thing is that my cousin got married this past summer also, and she told me that she wouldn't wear any kind of traditional chinese wedding cheongsums. Guess what! She wore two during her reception. I almost had to hold in my laughter when I saw her. Guess she couldn't beat her grand mommy/empress either and that maybe (hopefully not) we may be a ever powerful empress one day ruling over our own family. Gosh, gives me the shivers just thinking about it.

 

[tomatoe]

the bracelet is so big for me that its actually half way down my arm.

 

[tomatoe]

i was wearing my pinkish thai silk boob-tube reception dress and therefore look topless in this cropped shot!!! look at the SIZE of that thing!!!

i didnt wanna have the whole big white wedding/ chinese dinner with the 1001 distant relatives, longlost friends and goodness knows who else that i dont even know or remember. plus the fact that the hubby and family did not offer to pay for the wedding even. so we had a simple afternoon tea reception on the saturday after the registration and that was when a simple 'respect the elders' tea ceremony was performed and i was presented with the bling-bling

as for me being a matriach type, i guess i already wear the pants in the r/s and that's most prolly my destiny. lol, i.... cannot.....deny...my.........destiny....

 

[Jaded Gem]

Boy Tomatoe! That's some serious bling-bling, and you are right. I can't compete with that hunk of a wedding present. Hey at least the necklace and bracelet match. I got single pieces here and there. My wrist is very tiny also, so my great aunt (who gave me the bracelet) tied a bunch of litttle red strings around some loops to shorten the bracelet and to prevent it from falling off my hand. Once I left her place, I went to see a friend who commented, "Nice bracelet, but what's with all that red string tied everywhere." I just looked at my boyfriend who knew the story (now husband), we both started laughing, and then I proceeded to say "oh nothing, I'm just going to take this red string off." I don't know, but that red string totally ghettofied the bracelet making it look either a) too big which it was or b) broken and needed to be held up with tons of red string. My great aunt's a lovely lady moving into her nineties. She's very old and old fashioned, and she's lived in the same Chinatown apartment in NYC since the 1940's or 1950's. Needless to say, I make a trip out to see her every so often and I wear the bracelet with added on little red string so she doesn't know that I got rid of her red string in the first place. She's wonderful, and I miss her as I type this.

 

[fire&ice]

You guys are hysterical! I've got to know - what is up with the 24K jewelry? What does it symbolize?

Tomatoe, did I read that you are in Singapore?

 

[Jaded Gem]

Hey fire & ice. Yeah, I think 24K jewelry is just top of the line for many Asians. Well speaking from a Chinese sense, Chinese people really appreciate high quality items. It's like a symbol of love not tarnished or skimped down and diluted by other metals. Also I think the color is appealing to many. And I think in history, platinum wasn't available for awhile so the next best option for high quality jewelry was 24K. I could be wrong, but judging from my many Asian friends and family who sport 24K, I would say it is a very cultural thing. Not to say that other jewelry isn't important. My dad told me that his "grand MIL" told my dad he needed to buy my mother the finest pearls as a wedding gift to my mom. Needless to say my dad sunk down over $20K for pearls (necklace, bracelet, and broach matching set) over thirty years ago. My mom gave them to me so I could wear them this past July 7, 2003. I declined after seeing how beautiful they were, and more of a fear that I might break or lose any of her precious wedding gift from my dad. Perhaps, my mom will wear it for the California reception held this summer. I was just speechless when I saw the pearls that my dad got her. It was just so beautiful and unlike my 24K jewelry. (I felt like I wanted to rap up some made up song like "24K for my wedding day...la, la, la...la, la, la."

 

[tomatoe]

F&I: its a chinese tradition/ custom for the groom's family to to give 'si dian jing' to the bride when she gets married. 'si dian jing' literally means 4 touches of gold, which is where the 24k jewelery comes in. the more traditional (aka old fashioned) families will still give the mr t-type gold chains and stuff but the more forward thinking, modern families will actually give a nice diamond set. if the girl is on better terms with the guy's family, they sometimes offer to let the girl choose what she wants instead. i am not sure exactly what is the meaning behind this whole thing but i will ask and find out for u asap. i only know it's part of the bride's dowry.

and yes, i am half way around the world in singapore

jaded gem: y in the world would u wanna compete with me in the 24k bling bling stakes

the red string could also be for good luck on the bracelet from ur grand aunt

 

[tomatoe]

some more info on the traditional chinese wedding (not the american kind

)

The presentation of betrothal gifts to the bride's family on an auspicious date is still very much widely practiced nowadays. Depending on which dialect group either party belongs to, the gifts vary. Usually, the gifts include a dowry of a token sum of money, different combinations of jewellery (for example, teochews require the 4 items of bracelet, earrings, necklace and ring) bridal cakes, mandarin oranges and liquor. The more traditional families will include two pairs of candles, one in the likeness of a dragon and the other a phoenix.


si dian jing

 

[fire&ice]

Thanks - very interesting!

If I can ask a stupid question, what language do they speak in Singapore as your English is impecable?

 

[Jaded Gem]

Yeah, I agree with Tomatoe, and there are so many cultural traditions that I am still learning about them today. The Chinese tea ceremony is great because when the bride and the groom toast their parents and relatives, they get something called "lucky money" in a red chinese envelope. That's some extra cash to spend on anything including additonal "bling bling." Then when my dad sent out the wedding invitations to all the chinese people who were invited to my wedding (suprisingly 99% Chinese), the invitees also got about $25-$50 worth of Chinese pastries. My dad spent around a thousand dollars just on the pastries alone. I thought it was a little extravagant, but hey my parents were running the show. Of course, we also had one large roasted pig at the reception. I couldn't help but laugh when I saw an apple in the pig's mouth...somehow I knew the pig would make an appearance. Yeah, and at the party they played Chinese pop music. I was just disappointed that they didn't hire Jackie Chan to make a guest appearance.

Anyway, the whole reception lasted a little over five hours and pretty much everybody wanted a "doggy bag" for all the good food that my parents and relatives made. It was fun! And guess what, my "grand MIL" got her Sunday, August 8th day for this summer. I wonder how that will go? Wish me luck!

 

[sumi]

fire & ice: That's not a stupid question at all! Let me tell you an example of a stupid question: I can speak Japanese and someone once asked me "If you can speak Japanese, does that mean you can speak Chinese too?". Now THAT is a stupid question!

 

[tomatoe]

f&i: that's not a stupid question at all, its just an example of how little people the other side of the world (america, canada, england, etc) really know about singapore and the other countries in the asean region. We dont live in coconut trees and we aint part of china

Anyway, I have always had a good command of english because i come from a (proper) english-speaking background. Growing up and through school, I often either failed or barely made it in my mothertongue language, Mandarin, but exceled in English. I dare say that I am the exception to the norm with my better command of english even though it is taught as a first language in Singapore. so if u come across another singaporean, dont be too surprised if they dont speak english that well.

Most chinese sporeans have a poor command of english and mandarin, it has become a case of 'jack of all trades and master of none'. Alot of Chinese Singaporeans have a big problem with learning english and mandarin in school mainly due to the fact that they generally speak Mandarin or dialects at home first and foremost. When they start to learn English in school, they tend to think in chinese first and translate it to english. An exmaple is "Have you eaten?", in chinese it is "Ni chi bao le mah?", directly translated to mean "You eat finish already not?" So you will often come across singaporeans who speak english like that and this is officially known as Singlish. Added to this is the malay and indian languages, and u can imagine what a mix of languages the average singaporean has to contend with.

on an ending note, ask more questions anytime la!! (la is a word without any meaning and is often tagged to the end of a sentence or phrase by the chinese in asia and sometimes the fob or older chinese in western countries)

 

[fire&ice]

Wow - thanks! I never thought I would learn so much about other cultures,etc. from a diamond board! Interesting!

 

[sumi]

It just seems like most countries, other than the United States, put a heavy emphasis on learning other languages in school. I supposed since English is the de facto universal language we don't have as strong of a need to pick up another language. We're also not surrounded by many other countries, like in Europe or Asia. I mean, we only share borders with two countries and one of those has English as one of it's official languages! My brother in law is German and he speaks English perfectly. If you were just talking with him, you would never guess that he did not grow up in the United States. He also speaks French fluently, and of course his native language of German. I went to an international school abroad for a while and there were so many people from foreign countries that spoke English perfectly. It's a little unfortunate that the United States doesn't emphasize learning a foreign language, I think it really broadens one's view of the world.

 

[iceprincess]

Learning another language also keeps one's mind sharp and allows one to communicate with more people in the world.

All around a good thing

 

[tomatoe]

sumi, i think generally most western countries with the exception of the europeans/ canadians place emphasis on only one language in school, english. even the british and australians generally practise the school of thought, where the bilingual or monolingual non-english speaking children have to conform to the societal norm of speaking english and are made to feel that their mothertongue is inferior as compared to english.

i agree and feel that there is actually a great need for these countries to change their way of thinking and readily accept that bilingualism is in fact a valuable and essential part of living, working and being successful in the new-age economy that is developing. i wonder if the countries & their govt's realise that they are in fact 'losing' out and the english language is not the master anymore.

on the amazing race, it reflected so badly on reichen/ chip and caucasians in general when they screamed at the taxi drive in korea for not understanding english. my family was all going, 'woah, this guy does not even speak a 2nd language and he expects the taxi driver to be able to understand him? afterall, he IS a guest in the taxi driver's country and he should have better manners than that!"

p.s. sometimes when i get bad service and attitude in ozzie, i just utter a vulgar word in one of the chinese dialects or mandarin even. i know that i'm being petty but i cant stand the blatent racism!

 

[chevysl]

That's interesting...my mom's thinking is similar to your mil's thinking in the sense that they think the reception is so important. Her belief is that it should be a time to be surrounded by family and a joyous occassion..celebrated by a large group..yadda,yadda,yadd. And it's funny how parents always end up inviting all these people that you haven't seen in years...heck, don't even know their names.

That is my engagement pictured here...kinda weird though since one diamond is a round brilliant and the other diamond is a 1.2 european cut (His grandmother's ring). Kinda incorporates the old and new. Still love it. We're actually thinking of getting anther engagement ring...one I can wear to work since this one "sticks out" too much. Gets in the way when I assess my patients at work. I was looking for rings where the diamond is leveled with the band...any suggestions? Was looking at tiffany's etoile rings..else a tiffany stacked ring.

 

[derekinla]

There is actually a thread on the Weddingchannel message boards entitled "Chinese Brides Needing to Vent?". Check it out (BTW, it has OVER a THOUSAND POSTS!!!)...Click Here



As for superstitious #'s, I came across a California license plate "888 TAM" which had to be both the FUNNIEST and FOBBIEST custom plate I've ever seen...AND YES, the interior of the car was amply decorated with Mashimaro and Hello Kitty auto accesories.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/20/2004 1:36:56 PM tomatoe wrote:

sumi, i think generally most western countries with the exception of the europeans/ canadians place emphasis on only one language in school, english. ----------------

Yes, Americans tend to be very ethnocentric. But, realize too, I am one generation away from being ridiculed for *not* speaking *only* English. So, to some extent it's cultural. My mother would have her hand slapped if she spoke her native tongue.

We had to take a foreign language starting in high school which really is too late to learn a language. Some pilot programs (mostly in private school)teaches other languages starting in the early grades. My friends children (6 & 9) speak fluent French. But, that is more from spending a month in France every year - although they were taught French in school. Another problem here is that we all speak English. You really can't practice any other language. That is changing a bit w/ Spanish which I can understand - but can't speak. I used to be able to understand French - but again can speak only little.

On an interesting note, my father can converse in 3 or 4 languages. Not fluent in any - but enough to talk the talk. He was in International Finance.