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SpikeIt

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
16
It's time to try the marriage thing and here in Texas the ladies like them bigger. I am thinking +/- 3c round. I found this diamond and it looks nice. I like that it looks fairly wide for the carat but I don't really know anything about diamonds and I wanted to get any feedback as to if there are special concerns I should have before making a purchase. This is stretching to the top of my budget but if you think there are better options out there at same or lower price point I'd love to know those as well.

 
lovedogs said:
Unfortunately that stone is really badly cut.

What's your budget?
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I’m kind of new to all this - but I can even say that with confidence
 
Also, have you talked to your gf about her size preferenxes? 3ct is a pretty large stone. What about color sensitivity? There's a lot more to diamonds than size, and a poorly cut huge stone won't be all that impressive IRL.

With 30k budget and wanting close to 3ct you'll have to sacrifice something (size, color, etc).

Some options:


I don't usually recommend IGI for earth mined diamonds, but the price is fair for this IMHO and I like the cut.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-17717198
 
lovedogs said:
Also, have you talked to your gf about her size preferenxes? 3ct is a pretty large stone. What about color sensitivity? There's a lot more to diamonds than size, and a poorly cut huge stone won't be all that impressive IRL.

With 30k budget and wanting close to 3ct you'll have to sacrifice something (size, color, etc).

Some options:


I don't usually recommend IGI for earth mined diamonds, but the price is fair for this IMHO and I like the cut.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-17717198
Click to expand...

Women in Dallas wear big rings. This won't come close to being in top half among her friends. I think anything at 2.8 carats and above is decent. As far as the original stone how do you know it's really bad? I saw it has an excellent cut rating and the HCA score on pricescope I saw was also excellent i think? Thank you for the feedback, it's why I am here!
 
It's spready + shallow 60/ 58.8 ~ they sent it to IGI for grading ~ A shallow stone like this would likely be VG @ GIA....IGI also has reputation color grading isn't as strict... So should compare it to a GIA H/I VG ....It also has some cutting execution issues....

HCA gave it 1.6 but also says "Low HCA scores and bigger sized diamonds can appear dark when viewed close up; but these stones can be great for earrings and pendants " (so not ideal for ring that you look at close up...)

they aren't the end all.... but Cut Estimator has it falling out of AGS/GIA Ideal/Excellent range and Stone Algo scores low 6.9

1719525773875.png

1719525577069.png
 
SpikeIt said:
Women in Dallas wear big rings. This won't come close to being in top half among her friends. I think anything at 2.8 carats and above is decent. As far as the original stone how do you know it's really bad? I saw it has an excellent cut rating and the HCA score on pricescope I saw was also excellent i think? Thank you for the feedback, it's why I am here!
Click to expand...

I think there's no substitute for reading through the educational posts here and "training" your eye by looking at true super ideal cuts (online if not in person) compared to not ideal cuts.
 
SpikeIt said:
As far as the original stone how do you know it's really bad? I saw it has an excellent cut rating and the HCA score on pricescope I saw was also excellent i think? Thank you for the feedback, it's why I am here!
Click to expand...

What was the HCA? I'd be surprised if it was <2. The shallow crown angle of 31ish gives it a crown height of only 12. This is a really shallow stone. I suspect it won't give much fire.

We like crown angles of 34-35, pavilion angles of 40.6-41 as well as other stuff. But for $30k and 2.8+ct, you're going to have some challenges finding a well cut stone.

Nevertheless, how exciting for you! Hopefully, PSers will come to your rescue!
 
lovedogs said:
I think there's no substitute for reading through the educational posts here and "training" your eye by looking at true super ideal cuts (online if not in person) compared to not ideal cuts.
Click to expand...
This is very helpful and i'm deep in the education tabs learning about cut (and the other c's).

0515vision said:
What was the HCA? I'd be surprised if it was <2. The shallow crown angle of 31ish gives it a crown height of only 12. This is a really shallow stone. I suspect it won't give much fire.

We like crown angles of 34-35, pavilion angles of 40.6-41 as well as other stuff. But for $30k and 2.8+ct, you're going to have some challenges finding a well cut stone.

Nevertheless, how exciting for you! Hopefully, PSers will come to your rescue!
Click to expand...
HCA 1.6
 
With such a significant purchase both in terms of money and importance it’s crucial to know your partners preferences.
Does she want a round cut? There are a heap of other cuts and everyone has a preference (mine is for emerald cuts).
And I’ll be blunt, to the normal eye size is what people notice alongside cut.
Cut is so important because it matters that the diamonds twinkles otherwise why bother with a diamond?
Eye clean clarity at polite viewing distance means even an SI can be fine.
Colour, some people notice the difference between an E and an I, others don’t.
These parameters mean the higher the colour and the higher the clarity the smaller the diamond which is why it’s important to know what criteria matter most to your intended.
And then there’s lab grown which is a whole other world but if size is the number one priority you’ll get a huge size lab diamond for $30k.
 
lovedogs said:
I don't usually recommend IGI for earth mined diamonds, but the price is fair for this IMHO and I like the cut.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-17717198
Click to expand...
Do you think this is eye clean? I feel like maybe some people would see the inclusion in the middle of the top with just the naked eye...

Would either of the diamonds you suggested fall within the red zone below? Really good but just outside the hearts and arrows/a cut above categories?

What do you thinking looking at I+ color and VS2+ clarity is the largest I could get while staying in the red zone with a $30k-ish budget.


1719587635697.png
lovedogs said:
I think there's no substitute for reading through the educational posts here and "training" your eye by looking at true super ideal cuts (online if not in person) compared to not ideal cuts.
Click to expand...
I am fully educated now haha. Is there a way to get the symmetry or light performance images like ideal scope or ASET or hearts and arrows imagery for james allen diamonds?

I'm still puzzled how everyone thinks the HCA excellent cut is a really bad cut...

Bron357 said:
With such a significant purchase both in terms of money and importance it’s crucial to know your partners preferences.
Does she want a round cut? There are a heap of other cuts and everyone has a preference (mine is for emerald cuts).
And I’ll be blunt, to the normal eye size is what people notice alongside cut.
Cut is so important because it matters that the diamonds twinkles otherwise why bother with a diamond?
Eye clean clarity at polite viewing distance means even an SI can be fine.
Colour, some people notice the difference between an E and an I, others don’t.
These parameters mean the higher the colour and the higher the clarity the smaller the diamond which is why it’s important to know what criteria matter most to your intended.
And then there’s lab grown which is a whole other world but if size is the number one priority you’ll get a huge size lab diamond for $30k.
Click to expand...
I will do some more investigating on her likely preferences

freddyboston said:
If you can do J color - Whiteflash has premium cut ACA 3.05ct @ $34k
They ship but also have showroom @ Sugar Land / Houston

Diamond | 3.050 ct J VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4535583

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 3.050 carat J color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4535583
www.whiteflash.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip! If I make a trip down to Houston soon I will consider it!
 
Last edited:
An additional question. She only wears yellow gold jewelry and a lot of it and I think I will go with an all gold ring/setting. I read in the color education that spending up on color can be a waste. Is that a general consensus? Is there any worry that getting lets say the yellow in an I diamond will be compounded by the yellow gold setting and not compliment?
 
SpikeIt said:
Women in Dallas wear big rings. This won't come close to being in top half among her friends. I think anything at 2.8 carats and above is decent. As far as the original stone how do you know it's really bad? I saw it has an excellent cut rating and the HCA score on pricescope I saw was also excellent i think? Thank you for the feedback, it's why I am here!
Click to expand...

Does your social circle wear natural diamond? Lab diamonds are very popular and much less expensive. That is partly driving the upward trend in diamond size in some circles. I’d confirm that the social circle has natural and not lab diamonds before using their diamonds as a benchmark for what you should get!
 
Dreamer_D said:
Does your social circle wear natural diamond? Lab diamonds are very popular and much less expensive. That is partly driving the upward trend in diamond size in some circles. I’d confirm that the social circle has natural and not lab diamonds before using their diamonds as a benchmark for what you should get!
Click to expand...

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no labs
 
Tbh, the only opinion on lab vs natural that matters is you/your partners'. Since lab stones are identical to natural in material and the only way to tell them apart is advanced testing, no one knows anymore who has what. Super wealthy folks wear lab stones all the time.

I'm not saying you should buy one or not, but wealth isn't an indication of whether or not someone is buying natural diamonds
 
SpikeIt said:
I'm still puzzled how everyone thinks the HCA excellent cut is a really bad cut...
Click to expand...
HCA is a rejection tool, not a selection tool.
In other words, if a diamond scores poorly, then forget about it. If it scores well, then it merits further consideration, but is not guaranteed to be great. It may or may not be a good diamond, depending on other criteria.
 
SpikeIt said:
thoughts on cut and value with these two?

Click to expand...

The first one 2.55 has strong fluorescence. You might want to see this one IRL before really committing. I'm not mad at the cut given the budget, but it could def be better, and it's not H&A for sure. I think there's some pavilion twist going on. I'll let the experts chime in.

The second ... it seems to have paddling or painting/digging or something impeding the edge-to-edge brightness.

Brian Gavin in Houston has these two below. Slightly smaller than what you want, but great cuts. Not his top of the line Black series, but the Signature series is still great. Has all the imaging you want, too. If you're going to see James Allen in Houston, may as well stop by BGD, too.

2.57 I VS1 $35k
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...oducts/2-57-i-vs1-brian-gavin-signature-round

2.512 F VS2 $40k
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/collections/diamonds/products/2-512-f-vs2-brian-gavin-blue-round
 
SpikeIt said:
Click to expand...

Hey @Garry H (Cut Nut), wondered if you could chime in.

The stone above scored HCA 1.6, but a bunch of us aren't crazy about the cut. We usually tell ppl to avoid stones above a score of 2, but this one scores well but looks wonky. Are you able to explain the ins and outs of the HCA for stones like this?

Much appreciated!
 
0515vision said:
Hey @Garry H (Cut Nut), wondered if you could chime in.

The stone above scored HCA 1.6, but a bunch of us aren't crazy about the cut. We usually tell ppl to avoid stones above a score of 2, but this one scores well but looks wonky. Are you able to explain the ins and outs of the HCA for stones like this?

Much appreciated!
Click to expand...

Not Garry obviously, but to my understanding the hca largely checks for complementary angles, etc. But it doesn't/can't account for pav twisting, painting, digging, etc, because it only has angle info.
 
lovedogs said:
Not Garry obviously, but to my understanding the hca largely checks for complementary angles, etc. But it doesn't/can't account for pav twisting, painting, digging, etc, because it only has angle info.
Click to expand...

Thanks for commenting, @lovedogs! Other than being shallow, what else specifically didn't you like about the stone? Just trying to learn here. One glance told me it was a stinker, but couldn't put my finger on it.

It did go dark under the table with the teeniest rotation and the 9o'clock upper bezel facet was super dark enface. Was that from painting/digging or paddling? I didn't notice much pavilion twist, but maybe I was looking for the wrong things - those teeny triangles at the base?

I'm just still surprised that such a shallow stone would score <2.
 
If I remember correctly the HCA is biased towards shallower stones. I think the cut is too shallow for a ring, but likely perfectly fine and bright for a pendant or earring. The video suggests potential paddling up close, but I think the optical symmetry looks good.
 
0-0-0 said:
If I remember correctly the HCA is biased towards shallower stones. I think the cut is too shallow for a ring, but likely perfectly fine and bright for a pendant or earring. The video suggests potential paddling up close, but I think the optical symmetry looks good.
Click to expand...

Yup. Hca is OK with shallow stones, but most folks would agree that this one is way too shallow and that the table/depth ratio is not good.

0515vision said:
Thanks for commenting, @lovedogs! Other than being shallow, what else specifically didn't you like about the stone? Just trying to learn here. One glance told me it was a stinker, but couldn't put my finger on it.

It did go dark under the table with the teeniest rotation and the 9o'clock upper bezel facet was super dark enface. Was that from painting/digging or paddling? I didn't notice much pavilion twist, but maybe I was looking for the wrong things - those teeny triangles at the base?

I'm just still surprised that such a shallow stone would score <2.
Click to expand...

Here's what I don't like. It has the "pancake" effect that happens w stones that have table>depth. Seen from the side here
Screenshot_20240628_172629_Chrome.jpg


The arrows are splintery and paddled at the end. Likely due to weirdness of having such a shallow crown (31 when we tell folks to stick with 34-41). The table reflection is also huge in the middle probably because the table is bigger than depth.

Screenshot_20240628_172643_Chrome.jpg
 
Just wanted to say congrats on your upcoming engagement, and I wish you luck in finding a diamond as special as your lady love! :love:
 
SpikeIt said:
An additional question. She only wears yellow gold jewelry and a lot of it and I think I will go with an all gold ring/setting. I read in the color education that spending up on color can be a waste. Is that a general consensus? Is there any worry that getting lets say the yellow in an I diamond will be compounded by the yellow gold setting and not compliment?
Click to expand...

It is not a general consensus. Some people are colour sensitive and notice the differences. I am colour sensitive and therefore have chosen ‘D’-‘F’ colour diamonds for my pieces. It all depends on personal preference and what you want to prioritise.
 
SpikeIt said:
Would either of the diamonds you suggested fall within the red zone below? Really good but just outside the hearts and arrows/a cut above categories?

What do you thinking looking at I+ color and VS2+ clarity is the largest I could get while staying in the red zone with a $30k-ish budget.


1719587635697.png
Click to expand...

@lovedogs any advice you can share on the above?
 
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