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ERD Chunky cushion or GOG AVC - help to decide

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Date: 3/9/2010 10:47:00 PM
Author: CushionNovice
I asked him about the ASET and he said - the following:

I''m sorry but I do not use ASET imagery as its always been my objective and my companies stated policy to look at every diamond and not be dictated by a machine.I actually have purchased one but to date still do not feel comfortable with the images it sends.Maybe in the future i''ll use it a secondary source

Agreed the photo is fuzzy - and to be honest with you, i don''t know how to tell one from another! before i ''found'' pricescope, i was looking down at regular cushions so i''m just so chuffed to have f0und these beauties! should i be concerned about the ''clouds'' or the ''extra facet?''...

I assume mark is just as good as GOG?
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Maybe Dan from ERD could comment on this? Some clarification would be useful if ERD have decided against using the ASET altogether.
 
Date: 3/10/2010 1:47:14 AM
Author: dreamer_d
If I was buying a cushion from Mark I would want to see it myself in person before I made a final decision. I do trust his eye, it has been proven, but I am too much of a control freak not to want to lay my own eyes on it too, first
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In contrast, I would buy an AVC without needing to see it in person first because of all the techy stuff that GOG can provide to help give me an idea of what I was getting.


Am I correct that you cannot see it in person before buying? You are overseas? I would be nervous about making such a large purchase without the peace of mind of great photos and stuff if I were overseas.
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I would recommend the august vintage cushion any day over a generic stone from ERD. GOG takes light and performance and coverall cut seriously. Being that you are long distance, I wouldnt risk the ERD stone.
 
Date: 3/10/2010 8:28:39 AM
Author: bgray
Date: 3/10/2010 1:47:14 AM

Author: dreamer_d

If I was buying a cushion from Mark I would want to see it myself in person before I made a final decision. I do trust his eye, it has been proven, but I am too much of a control freak not to want to lay my own eyes on it too, first
2.gif
In contrast, I would buy an AVC without needing to see it in person first because of all the techy stuff that GOG can provide to help give me an idea of what I was getting.



Am I correct that you cannot see it in person before buying? You are overseas? I would be nervous about making such a large purchase without the peace of mind of great photos and stuff if I were overseas.
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I would recommend the august vintage cushion any day over a generic stone from ERD. GOG takes light and performance and coverall cut seriously. Being that you are long distance, I wouldnt risk the ERD stone.
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Wow, someone's got an axe to grind with ERD, eek. Just had to chime in here.. I have a stone from ERD and I think it's gorgeous. And this may be my personal preference, but I do find the "generic" cushions a bit more interesting to look at than the august vintage cushions. Now before the AVC evangelists jump down my throat, I do have say this is my personal preference. Just like I find H&A diamonds boring, I find the AVCs boring. I already know what to expect when I look at it. Though I have to say that they do shine ike the dickens, I don't find them unique (a la H&A). If I were to go with rounds, I'd go for an OMC or something of the sort, and I think that's the charm I find in cushion cuts, is that they're not all cut to look like exact replicas of the previous rock. I understand that all cutters cut to some sort of standard, but I'd like to think they have a little bit of leeway for artistic skill to come through (or maybe I'm just romanticizing the whole process
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) Either way, I just had to put my preference out there. It takes all types to make the (diamond) world go round.
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Date: 3/11/2010 2:41:11 AM
Author: elabay
Date: 3/10/2010 8:28:39 AM

Author: bgray

Date: 3/10/2010 1:47:14 AM


Author: dreamer_d


If I was buying a cushion from Mark I would want to see it myself in person before I made a final decision. I do trust his eye, it has been proven, but I am too much of a control freak not to want to lay my own eyes on it too, first
2.gif
In contrast, I would buy an AVC without needing to see it in person first because of all the techy stuff that GOG can provide to help give me an idea of what I was getting.




Am I correct that you cannot see it in person before buying? You are overseas? I would be nervous about making such a large purchase without the peace of mind of great photos and stuff if I were overseas.
Click to expand...




I would recommend the august vintage cushion any day over a generic stone from ERD. GOG takes light and performance and coverall cut seriously. Being that you are long distance, I wouldnt risk the ERD stone.
Click to expand...


Wow, someone's got an axe to grind with ERD, eek. Just had to chime in here.. I have a stone from ERD and I think it's gorgeous. And this may be my personal preference, but I do find the 'generic' cushions a bit more interesting to look at than the august vintage cushions. Now before the AVC evangelists jump down my throat, I do have say this is my personal preference. Just like I find H&A diamonds boring, I find the AVCs boring. I already know what to expect when I look at it. Though I have to say that they do shine ike the dickens, I don't find them unique (a la H&A). If I were to go with rounds, I'd go for an OMC or something of the sort, and I think that's the charm I find in cushion cuts, is that they're not all cut to look like exact replicas of the previous rock. I understand that all cutters cut to some sort of standard, but I'd like to think they have a little bit of leeway for artistic skill to come through (or maybe I'm just romanticizing the whole process
20.gif
) Either way, I just had to put my preference out there. It takes all types to make the (diamond) world go round.
1.gif
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Why is it an axe to grind for me but a personal preference for you? I feel ERD offers stones that often are lacking in cutting standards as evidenced by a recent post by someone else with pix of a stone that you couldnt give me--they romanticize it by saying they use their "eye." If they provided higher quality stones like GOG they would cost more, ERD wouldnt sell as many and they wouldnt make as much money. GOG invests a lot of time and money into their stones (information) virtual and in house. Thats worth something to me. I would prefer an August Vintage Cushion myself--thats what I was saying.
 
Just to clarify our use of the ASET Camera system. We are not having any technical difficulties with the machine. I have had some extensive email and phone conversations with a rep from AGSL in Vegas. The system is relatively simple to set up and use. As an example here is an attached photo of the 1.25 F-SI1 cushion that is part of this discussion

Kylie1.jpg
 
Date: 3/11/2010 10:00:15 AM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
Just to clarify our use of the ASET Camera system. We are not having any technical difficulties with the machine. I have had some extensive email and phone conversations with a rep from AGSL in Vegas. The system is relatively simple to set up and use. As an example here is an attached photo of the 1.25 F-SI1 cushion that is part of this discussion
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Thanks for the clarification Dan, much appreciated! Do we take it that ERD will now be offering ASET on request?
 
Date: 3/11/2010 10:26:55 AM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
Upon request we will offer the ASET image.
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Thanks for the prompt reply Dan!
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Dan,

It is great to see that you are providing images and take an interest in showing them on Pricescope. In my opinion this is a step in the right direction and should aid your customers in making an informed decision.

However, that image has serious problems and you still require quite a bit of adjustment of the camera to get images that are actually representative of the fine features of the diamond being photographed.

That image is overemphasizing red, has no blue or contrast and has very blurred detail making it impossible to see individual facets.

1) The white balance is off red should be lowered, blue should be raised.
2) The gamma is too high, that is why you see blurry neon areas.
3) The focus is off as well but that may be as a result of the colors and brightness being up too high.

The default settings on the camera should probably be turned off and manual adjustment is needed that is probably the source of many of the problems.
I am not famiiliar with your lighting setup so it would be advisable to discuss with AGS, I beleive Patrick Stout is particularly experienced and would be happy to help you calibrate the camera for your particular lighting environment.
 
How does this look, I have been playing around with it all day, not too busy today!

RBCexample.jpg
 
Date: 3/12/2010 2:46:32 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
How does this look, I have been playing around with it all day, not too busy today!
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That looks much better, well done!

That appears to be a very nice round diamond too.
 
Date: 3/10/2010 5:23:10 AM
Author: CushionNovice

Date: 3/10/2010 1:47:14 AM
Author: dreamer_d
If I was buying a cushion from Mark I would want to see it myself in person before I made a final decision. I do trust his eye, it has been proven, but I am too much of a control freak not to want to lay my own eyes on it too, first
2.gif
In contrast, I would buy an AVC without needing to see it in person first because of all the techy stuff that GOG can provide to help give me an idea of what I was getting.


Am I correct that you cannot see it in person before buying? You are overseas? I would be nervous about making such a large purchase without the peace of mind of great photos and stuff if I were overseas.
Click to expand...


Hey Dreamer - yes i am in Australia - so there is no way i can see it.. My jeweller (Erica Grace) has said she is happy to have it sent to her direct and if she says it is not up to scratch she can be my ''eyes''.... Mark has said i can return it... Its just so scary!!

But i think i need to remember that i am a complete novice so i''m sure i will love it.... i probably wont be able to spot all the things that the experts could - however it is great to use this information as a guide so that i know i''m on the right path.

Thanks again for your help here too!
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I think that this is a nice combination of experts viewing the diamond, so I personally would feel very comfortable if the diamond passed both of their scrutiny given their respective experience in the field. I think you just need to have a very honest conversation with JBEG when they see the diamond and don''t feel bad if you then want to send it back to Mark.

You are a novice, but you still deserve to have the best cushion you can find! Perfection is not necessary, but I think taking steps to make sure you have picked a gorgeous rock is totally worth it.
 
The round is for a client I just showed today from China. It is a 1.01 H-SI1 with a 57% table, 35 crown, 40.8 pav angle, and 61.7% depth.
 
Date: 3/12/2010 2:54:24 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
Or this for a non chunky cushion?
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I can't see this image quite so clearly Dan but its a definite improvement. The stone looks a bit tilted but apart from that it looks good.
 
Date: 3/12/2010 2:46:32 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
How does this look, I have been playing around with it all day, not too busy today!
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Raise the blue lower the red, those arrows are supposed to be blue not black or navy.
 
Date: 3/12/2010 3:19:56 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
You mean like this?
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The blue is too bright on my screen Dan, its casting a glare on the stone, the first ASET for the round is actually fine but one of the AGS reps is the best bet to get it right and I would take advice from them, especially as monitors vary - the first round ASET is a good blue colour on my screen, maybe it looks different to CCL. That way you know it is properly adjusted working with the AGS rep.
 
I had to use my nose to press the key to take the picture, since both my hands were manipulating the surrounding light. I have spoken to Patrick several times already. What I am working on is the environment of surrounding light in my office, that seems to be the most important constant.
 
Date: 3/12/2010 3:28:58 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
I had to use my nose to press the key to take the picture, since both my hands were manipulating the surrounding light. I have spoken to Patrick several times already. What I am working on is the environment of surrounding light in my office, that seems to be the most important constant.
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LOL!

The first round image is definitely preferable in that case to me. Also out of interest, ASET colour intensities and depths do vary according to the vendor and their particular setups, some blues look darker than others, some almost black, this isn't normally deemed to be a problem with arrows.
 
Date: 3/12/2010 3:21:31 PM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 3/12/2010 3:19:56 PM

Author: 30yearsofdiamonds

You mean like this?
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The blue is too bright on my screen Dan, its casting a glare on the stone, the first ASET for the round is actually fine but one of the AGS reps is the best bet to get it right and I would take advice from them, especially as monitors vary - the first round ASET is a good blue colour on my screen, maybe it looks different to CCL. That way you know it is properly adjusted working with the AGS rep.
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I agree, I can't help you fix this but I bet Patrick Stout at AGS can.

Here are well taken black background ASET images, your goal should be to emulate the quality of these images, notice the sharp contrast in facets and detail of the shades of blue being shown.

I am pretty sure you need to turn down the exposure setting the images are too bright.

BBASETImages.jpg
 
Those are good sample images CCL!

Here is one more Dan, sometimes the lighting can alter the colour of the arrows as you can see in this image.

ast_ags-1040372120018.jpg
 
Date: 3/12/2010 3:39:48 PM
Author: Lorelei
Those are good sample images CCL!

Here is one more Dan, sometimes the lighting can alter the colour of the arrows as you can see in this image.
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Also Dan do you notice how much detail you can see in the shades of red in the image lorelai posted that is also important. There is a difference between reddish green, reddish black etc. In your image the red is so overpowering you can''t see any detail at all everywhere looks bright cherry red.
 
Date: 3/12/2010 4:02:22 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
Thank you both.

Dan
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Thank you Dan and ERD for providing ASET! The last image looks much better.
 
Date: 3/12/2010 3:59:30 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
One more for the road!
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I am not expert, but this is looking much better. Did you use your toe to clikc the photo this time? I have heard that is the trick
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No still not good enough not even close. Notce the tips of the arrows on the right side on the edge of the crown are bleeding together with the lower girdles. They look almost like paddles at the edges that is bad.
If that were a true representation you would have huge dark areas in the diamond, and this would be the result of a poorly cut stone.

I really do want you to learn how to setup the lighting in your office to take good ASET images but this is inappropriate in a customers thread and we aren't going to be able to help you anyway.
Exchange images with Patrick interactively and over the phone I'm sure you will get it eventually.

Good-luck,
CCL
 
Looks like I have started a healthy debate over these cushions! thanks everyone for your help in getting me more information on this diamond. I will be sure to keep you posted on how i go. For someone like me who is so far away (Australia), it''s too hard to purchase something that i will look at EVERYDAY FOREVER without having a great deal of information provided to me.

On that note, I have read here about so many great experiences with ERD, however I have to admit that I was left feeling not good at all about my dealings. I don''t think it''s right to post too much about my unhappiness, perhaps it is because I''m new to this game, however all I got was a photo and 2 lines of info (carat size, color & clarity), then I had to keep asking and asking questions.

The responses only ever covered off the company credentials, and not actually answering my q''s about the stone. The experience actually left me feeling like a naughty child for asking (One email actually contained the response -''this is not a competition'' when I asked about the ASET. I was completely upfront that I was considering between two stones - perhaps this was wrong? ). To their credit I had to tell them about how the responses were making me feel and then I got a more detailed response (and the ASET!)... But it was all too late for me, particularly when I felt I was given so much information and assistance from GOG.

Anyway - thanks again to everyone, I am enjoying the learning experience and getting excited about making the right choice.
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