eternity band with "rough" edges

[andrewSD]

In this comparison, I showed two views of the WF ring. I think the gap between the prongs varies between the two views. Also, the SP ring appears to have smaller prongs.

 

[JulieN]

Wow, thanks for the comparison! Can you see any difference in diamond performance?

 

[andrewSD]

Finally, the issue of "roughness"... in the "blind" test with my fiancee, it was actually very hard to tell the difference when rubbing the outside of the ring with the thumb. On her finger though, there seems to be a *slight* difference in how rough they feel, with the SP being slightly better. Three possibilities that I can think of: 1) that the difference in height of the rings makes them feel different on the finger, 2) that there are specific irregular points on the WF ring that "catch" more than others, or 3) we''ve learned how they feel and have convinced ourselves that newer is better. The third picture posted here is meant to test that first reason (height of the ring) by comparing it side-by-side. Not exactly sure how one would measure that, but we think the SP ring sits just a hair lower than the WF ring.

Just a note that I''ve tried my best to be consistent in lighting, focus, angle, etc... All the magnifications *within* each image are exact (same focal length, same image scaling), but not necessarily between images. I have higher resolution pix if anyone wants to see anything in particular...

And just in case anyone wants to compare these two rings on every level (and since prices are displayed on their website anyway):

SP: 27 diamonds, 0.99 tcw, F-G, VVS-VS, $1663
WF: 24 diamonds, 1.00 tcw, G-H, SI1, $1350

and the memoire piece was over 2x the SP ring at the local store.

... anyway, we''ll wait until we talk to the WF people tomorrow before we make up our minds...

 

[andrewSD]

Date: 4/27/2006 1:06:42 AM
Author: JulieN
Wow, thanks for the comparison! Can you see any difference in diamond performance?

if by "performance" you mean sparkle / shine / wow-factor, neither of us can really see a difference...

oh, and on on second thought, the SP ring is *definitely* lower than the WF ring. It's just a fraction of a millimeter I'm sure, but it's quite noticeable when both rings are on the same finger... Now whether that is the cause of our perception that the SP ring is less "rough", still can't say...

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/27/2006 1:18:59 AM
Author: andrewSD

Now whether that is the cause of our perception that the SP ring is less ''rough'', still can''t say...

They look quite different in the very detailed picture! Quite a bit so. All small details, but... that''s all there is to look at on a ring

 

[jcrow]

wow! what detailed pictures. did you take any pics with the Memoire band?
that WF band worries me. it seems so inconsistent. i have a half eternity one also. although i haven''t worn it much yet because i''m not married just yet, i did notice that it was a bit rough too. i just chalked it up to the type of ring it was and hoped that it got better once worn regularly. i don''t think it was to the point of bleeding like Matatora, just something new and different on my finger.
good luck, and please keep us posted on what''s going on and what you choose.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just have to say that this site is exceptionally valuable! I honestly appreciate all the positive and negative feedback because it really helps us to become more educated and make wise decisions!

I will be looking for eternity bands as soon as my new solitaire comes, so this was really, really helpful! Now I just need Momothree to post a close-up side shot of her Dimend Scassi eternity ring so I can compare it as well!

 

[JohnQuixote]

This thread is an example of the influence of the collective Pricescope voice.

A few weeks ago we began offering our new shared prong full eternity e-ring and matching band. We wanted to do this at an appealing price point (as Andrew mentioned, around $1000 - he paid an extra $300 for some customization). Last week when Leonid sent me the photo (page 1) I discussed with others at WF the practicality, or not, of offering this price point, given our clientele’s expectations. After the weekend we decided to upgrade both shared prong full eternity rings to our Whiteflash Design line of pieces, making them more labor intensive and improving the melee quality. Those prices were increased yesterday. The piece in the photos reflects the price for which it was offered.

This thread is a good reminder of how analytical our PS clientele is. We appreciate all who have made comments and offered input. We will extend an offer to Andrew to upgrade his piece to our Whiteflash Design version for a discount, if he is so-inclined (we appreciate his efforts and Leonid’s alert). The same offer will apply for others who ordered this piece.

It would be interesting to see these kinds of magnified comparisons of same-style pieces from several retail outlets: One set of them at a low price point. Another set at moderate pricing, and a third set at premium prices. I know it would not be scientific but – like we see such similar ideal-scope images due to the quality of many PS diamonds – it might demonstrate how ‘average’ pieces appear as compared to the boutique pieces often seen on PS.

 

[Mara]

this was an interesting thread...

actually i do notice a difference between my e-ring and w-ring in terms of how poky or scratchy the prongs feel on the WF w-ring vs the e-ring...but it doesn''t bother me really at all. definitely doesn''t scratch the fingers or anything. it''s just more poky.

amazingly enough i wonder how come i am so easygoing about this stuff, because i really just do not seem to care about these tiny details...aka how low or high the diamonds are, if it pokes me a little, or whatever. i have worn my rings for years and i guess i just got used to them, no big deal. i also never got any blisters or bleeding fingers, i must have tough skin. i have thought about having wf make the prongs a little more comfy on the w-ring but then i never mention it so i guess it must not be a big deal. maybe i will try to remember it on this visit next weekend.

the funny thing is that i typically am a super high-maintenance customer *in general* for most items, but for whatever reason with jewelry...i guess i space out drooling on the sparkles of the diamonds and don''t bother to macro into the settings or something, hehehee.

 

[pricescope]

DRY CLEANER: Let me explain to you something. Okay? With certain types of fabrics, different chemicals can react, causing..

JERRY: (Interrupting) You shrunk it! You know you shrunk it! Just tell me that you shrunk it!

DRY CLEANER: I shrunk it.

http://www.seinology.com/scripts/script-05.shtml

John, don't try to save your company face. Just admit: you, guys, screwed it

You'll feel better.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 4/27/2006 2:59:45 PM
Author: Pricescope
DRY CLEANER: Let me explain to you something. Okay? With certain types of fabrics, different chemicals can react, causing..


JERRY: (Interrupting) You shrunk it! You know you shrunk it! Just tell me that you shrunk it!


DRY CLEANER: I shrunk it.


http://www.seinology.com/scripts/script-05.shtml


John, don''t try to save your company face. Just admit: you, guys, screwed it

You''ll feel better.

agreed

My eternity band looked just like andrew''s, was custom and I paid the old custom price. I chalked it up to that was how it was supposed to be until I saw other bands and noticed they were not like that. It was far past my original purchase time so I just moved on

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 4/27/2006 3:08:10 PM
Author: mrssalvo

Date: 4/27/2006 2:59:45 PM
Author: Pricescope
DRY CLEANER: Let me explain to you something. Okay? With certain types of fabrics, different chemicals can react, causing..


JERRY: (Interrupting) You shrunk it! You know you shrunk it! Just tell me that you shrunk it!


DRY CLEANER: I shrunk it.


http://www.seinology.com/scripts/script-05.shtml


John, don''t try to save your company face. Just admit: you, guys, screwed it

You''ll feel better.

agreed

My eternity band looked just like andrew''s, was custom and I paid the old custom price. I chalked it up to that was how it was supposed to be until I saw other bands and noticed they were not like that. It was far past my original purchase time so I just moved on

I didn''t know that mrssalvo. That''s a shame

 

[andrewSD]

... thank god for whoever invented smilies, huh? Without them that post up there could have taken this to a whole different place, which I *certainly* didn''t intend it to...

First off, thanks John for chiming in. I was going to try to paraphrase what I was told over the phone, but better to hear it direct from you.

Second, I am appreciative of WF''s efforts to rectify the situation, and I''m 90% sure I''ll see it through to see how the new ring design/craftsmanship looks. But as I told Celina over the phone, for those of us who have weddings approaching, we''re really wanting to check things off the exhaustive (exhausting) to-do list and not have them linger...

And one other open note to WF (and all other jewelers, I suppose) regarding the "price point" vs. quality issue. Frankly, as a relative neophyte in the jewelry game (which is where many of the new/occasional users at PS are coming from), this is not an issue that I even considered. Sure, I know it applies to everything -- cars, houses, electronics, whatever. But based on my readings here at PS, WF was synonymous with quality. I never read a post that said "Well, it wasn''t exactly what I wanted, but for what I paid it was worth it". And that''s a testament to WF''s good reputation here and a big reason why I went with them.

I don''t mind the quality vs. price trade-off being added to the decision making process, but unfortunately there aren''t really the tools to do it online. I originally chose WF over SP because I thought I was getting a great deal and I assumed the product would be the same, but it turns out my assumption was wrong. But the only way I was able to determine that was because of the side-by-side comparison, and I think that''s probably not a choice that many people have the luxury/time/patience to do.

*Finally*, (and I hope I''m not spoiling an as-yet-unresolved transaction with WF here), I think it''s worth noting that I could/would only have done the side-by-side comparison because SP has a great 100% return policy. And now that my eyes have been opened to the fact that quality differences exist (even at a company with as good a reputation as WF), then in the future I''m going to be *very* hesitant to do business with any company with less than a 100% return policy (again, WF included). ... just my two cents.

(Whew, I broke my own rule of not posting again until tonight, but I was getting no work done anyway...)

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 4/27/2006 2:59:45 PM
Author: Pricescope

DRY CLEANER: Let me explain to you something. Okay? With certain types of fabrics, different chemicals can react, causing..

JERRY: (Interrupting) You shrunk it! You know you shrunk it! Just tell me that you shrunk it!

DRY CLEANER: I shrunk it.

http://www.seinology.com/scripts/script-05.shtml

John, don't try to save your company face. Just admit: you, guys, screwed it

You'll feel better.

(standing up) Hello everyone. My name is John… and we screwed it.

It's true. If Andrew feels that we screwed it then we screwed it. Celina has said as much to him. Of course, we never aim to screw it. We hate screwing it. We avoid screwing it like the plague, and if it becomes screwed we leap at the opportunity to unscrew it!

If admitting it is half the battle, the other half should be making it right, and we’re here for the duration.

 

[diamondlil]

Wow, what a difference in those magnified views. Excellent pics, Andrew.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 4/27/2006 4:01:09 PM
Author: andrewS

But based on my readings here at PS, WF was synonymous with quality. I never read a post that said 'Well, it wasn't exactly what I wanted, but for what I paid it was worth it'. And that's a testament to WF's good reputation here and a big reason why I went with them.


I don't mind the quality vs. price trade-off being added to the decision making process, but unfortunately there aren't really the tools to do it online. I originally chose WF over SP because I thought I was getting a great deal and I assumed the product would be the same, but it turns out my assumption was wrong. But the only way I was able to determine that was because of the side-by-side comparison, and I think that's probably not a choice that many people have the luxury/time/patience to do.

andrew, I think WF has good customer service so many of the problems are not made public or resolved which keeps some of the negative issues from being out there, which is part of what good customer service is. Quality control issues happen for everyone, but how the vendor handles it it what earns my respect. For me personally, when I bought my eternity band and recieved it I noticed the issues right away. I emailed a couple of friends who told me it was normal and I didn't have enough jewelery experience at that time to think otherwise. I never posted about it here because I felt by not mentioning it right off the bat, too much time had passed. I have chimed in on different threads here and there but don't want to come across as always being critical. I was also relatively new to PS at the time and was a little afraid to post anything negative.

I'm sure WF will consider the issues you did such a great job of photographing and have high hopes that they will resolve them.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 4/27/2006 4:01:09 PM
Author: andrewSD

... thank god for whoever invented smilies, huh? Without them that post up there could have taken this to a whole different place, which I *certainly* didn''t intend it to...

First off, thanks John for chiming in. I was going to try to paraphrase what I was told over the phone, but better to hear it direct from you.

Second, I am appreciative of WF''s efforts to rectify the situation, and I''m 90% sure I''ll see it through to see how the new ring design/craftsmanship looks. But as I told Celina over the phone, for those of us who have weddings approaching, we''re really wanting to check things off the exhaustive (exhausting) to-do list and not have them linger...

And one other open note to WF (and all other jewelers, I suppose) regarding the ''price point'' vs. quality issue. Frankly, as a relative neophyte in the jewelry game (which is where many of the new/occasional users at PS are coming from), this is not an issue that I even considered. Sure, I know it applies to everything -- cars, houses, electronics, whatever. But based on my readings here at PS, WF was synonymous with quality. I never read a post that said ''Well, it wasn''t exactly what I wanted, but for what I paid it was worth it''. And that''s a testament to WF''s good reputation here and a big reason why I went with them.

I don''t mind the quality vs. price trade-off being added to the decision making process, but unfortunately there aren''t really the tools to do it online. I originally chose WF over SP because I thought I was getting a great deal and I assumed the product would be the same, but it turns out my assumption was wrong. But the only way I was able to determine that was because of the side-by-side comparison, and I think that''s probably not a choice that many people have the luxury/time/patience to do.

*Finally*, (and I hope I''m not spoiling an as-yet-unresolved transaction with WF here), I think it''s worth noting that I could/would only have done the side-by-side comparison because SP has a great 100% return policy. And now that my eyes have been opened to the fact that quality differences exist (even at a company with as good a reputation as WF), then in the future I''m going to be *very* hesitant to do business with any company with less than a 100% return policy (again, WF included). ... just my two cents.

(Whew, I broke my own rule of not posting again until tonight, but I was getting no work done anyway...)

Andrew,

Thank you for the feedback and comments, both direct and indirect. It''s not just the consumers who can learn and gain perspective thanks to this site.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Andrew you make an excellent point regarding price point vs. quality. That is a decision to be made as well. When I purchased the Memoire band, I was looking for a quality piece. After talking with several people and having tried on the band, I knew it was the one for me even though I could have purchased a comparable diamond weight band for less money. Same with the Etoile band I purchased. When someone has been making the same piece for ages, they truly perfect the process. WF makes alot of pieces of jewelry in a week at a very competitive price. However, when you pump out that many pieces with so many custom variables, QC has to suffer a bit. To their credit, they take great pride in their customer service and do their absolute best to make each and every customer happy.

When you are starting out, your budget is generally very tight. When planning a wedding you have lots of money going in lots of directions. At some point, something has to give. I understand that - been there done that! My only advice is just to realize that this wedding ring will hopefully be on your bride''s hand for many years to come. The flowers will come and go - so will the cake - so just make sure that the ring will stand the test of time - both from an aesthetic point of view and a comfort point of view.

Good luck with your decision. Thanks for being so forthcoming with your experience. Please come back and let us know how it all worked out!

 

[Lynn B]

I'm with Mara -- this IS a very interesting thread. On several different levels!

First of all, THANK YOU, Andrew for your excellent posts and the great comparison photos you took. Amazing! Those were extremely helpful and informative. I wish we could have some similar photos of the Memoire bands, too. MissGotRocks, are you there??!

Second of all, I really appreciate WF admitting their "OOPS" and offering whatever it takes to make it right. I agree with the others, sometimes less-than-perfect things do slip by...and yes, it's irritating, inconvenient and too darn bad -- but that is the reality -- with ANY vendor. What really matters is how the vendor responds and remedies it. And that's where WF truly shines. I think they have earned an awesome reputation for excellence in customer service.

Lynn

 

[MissGotRocks]

Hi Lynn! My camera is caput - if I get another one soon I''d be happy to post some ''side'' comparison pictures of my Memoire band. While we can talk about the variances all day there is nothing like visual input to show differences.

Wanna bring your camera and come over? We''ll take pics all day - your pictures are devine!

 

[mrssalvo]

MGR, i would love to see some closeups of your band. here are some Bill Pearlman emailed to Mat in this thread that might help in the mean time.

 

[mrssalvo]

 

[mrssalvo]

 

[MissGotRocks]

Thanks MrsSalvo - those are probably better than any I could take. My ring is a five stone - this eternity band shows the uniformity all the way around.

The diamonds are so perfectly matched and the prongs are just perfection. There are no rough spots or inconsistencies with the ring. As Bill has said previously, the rings are not castings. They are, from my experience, very high quality pieces. More expensive? Yes. But when you are talking about a ring to last for all time to be worn everyday such as a wedding ring, then it is a brand to be considered. While we are all cost conscious here, every time I look at my ring I know I made the right decision for me. I wish others the best as the deliberate their choices and decisions!

 

[Lynn B]

Haha, MGR, I''d LOVE to bring my cheap-o camera and come over... we could take photos all day and probably end up with 2 or 3 good ones! But hey, we''d have a blast doin'' it!

Mrs. S - great photos! THANK YOU! Wow, that Memoire band IS a beauty! Is there a website for Memoire?

 

[andrewSD]

Hi everyone...

yeah, I wish I''d taken pictures of the Memoire band when we had it, but I didn''t. We *think* the SP band has similar quality, but once the new WF ring comes in we''ll probably bring all three in for a side-by-side-by-side comparison.

Date: 4/27/2006 4:01:09 PM
Author: andrewSD

*Finally*, (and I hope I''m not spoiling an as-yet-unresolved transaction with WF here), I think it''s worth noting that I could/would only have done the side-by-side comparison because SP has a great 100% return policy. And now that my eyes have been opened to the fact that quality differences exist (even at a company with as good a reputation as WF), then in the future I''m going to be *very* hesitant to do business with any company with less than a 100% return policy (again, WF included). ... just my two cents.

thanks everyone for their thoughts above, and I''m rethinking my previous statement... Assuming all ends well with this WF transaction, I guess I would go back to them again because the customer service, as you all said, has so far been great. But from a consumer perspective, I guess my point is that any company is probably turning away potential customers with a less than 100% return policy. (And to be explicit, WF''s policy on this ring would have been 80%.) Let me explain... For the truly ignorant (myself two weeks ago, for example), if I don''t know that there is a wide variation in quality and I also do not know anything about WF''s stellar customer service, I''ll probably have no problem going with an online place with < 100% guarantee (as I did, because one assumes quality will be the same anywhere). For the truly informed (like most of you) who know a lot about variations in quality and also know about WF''s stellar customer service, you probably also have no problem going with WF (since you''re confident any issues will be resolved). But for the people in between who know about issues of quality but have no idea about WF''s customer service, then these people are going to be turned off by the return policy. The fear, of course, is that you''ll get stuck with some sub-standard ring and be paying 20% just to look at it. (I would have had this fear had I been informed enough...)

Of course, likely WF and other similar vendors have done the math and this policy makes sense (presumably to weed out the fickle consumer). So perhaps this is my rant to the world apropos of nothing... Or my attempt to educate others here in the only thing I''m qualified to -- the perspective of the naive...

One more note on the price point / quality issue. This is also not meant to be a criticism of WF, but merely a commentary on the difficulty of evaluating this trade-off online. As John mentioned, WF has upgraded their design and upgraded their price accordingly on the diamond eternity band. But as far as I can tell, the images for the old and the new design are exactly the same; only the price (and a bit of the description) have changed. That tells me that images posted on websites probably say nothing about the final product, so again, consumers don''t have the tools to assess that trade-off online. The only recourse is a great return policy (like SP) or the utmost confidence in customer service (like WF).

Finally, a brief update on my situation in particular. WF is making a new ring to be sent ~5/10. I suppose posting pictures would be expected... And as I told Celina, I think it''s most fair that if the new WF ring and the SP ring are of equal quality to our untrained eyes, then we''ll stay with the SP ring. Just seems unfair to SP, who delivered a ring we would be very happy with, to do otherwise. If the WF ring is noticeably superior OTOH, then we''ll keep that new one from WF.

 

[decodelighted]

Am I to assume even though Whiteflash so graciously admitted that they "boned" this one ... you'd still have to pay 20% of the price in order to return the ring?? (Isn't a product not living up to the demo photo of the item very different that you just changing your mind.)

The reason I ask is because IMHO it seems like a waste of everyone's time & effort to re-make the ring if you're only going to keep it if it's NOTICEABLY SUPERIOR to Signed Pieces' version.

Totally none of my business - just curious!

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 4/28/2006 9:55:38 PM
Author: Lynn B

Mrs. S - great photos! THANK YOU! Wow, that Memoire band IS a beauty! Is there a website for Memoire?

you can do a google search of memoire paris and some of the vendors who carry the line will pop up. as far as I know there is no memoire only website. Most highend jewelry stores carry the line. I believe Bill is the only PS vendor to carry them.

 

[andrewSD]

Date: 4/28/2006 10:26:45 PM
Author: decodelighted
Am I to assume even though Whiteflash so graciously admitted that they ''boned'' this one ... you''d still have to pay 20% of the price in order to return the ring?? (Isn''t a product not living up to the demo photo of the item very different that you just changing your mind.)

sorry, I should have been more explicit. WF is taking this ring back with 100% credit toward the new ring, which they are offering at a discount from the new higher price (as John mentioned previously) and also waiving the 20% restocking fee on the new ring if I decide to send it back.

 

[andrewSD]

Date: 4/28/2006 10:26:45 PM
Author: decodelighted
The reason I ask is because IMHO it seems like a waste of everyone''s time & effort to re-make the ring if you''re only going to keep it if it''s NOTICEABLY SUPERIOR to Signed Pieces'' version.

But on second thought, you raise a valid point that may again expose my naivete of how the jewelry business works. I had assumed that the second ring, if returned, would just go back into WF''s stock waiting for the next customer. But perhaps that''s not the case in reality, and then I agree it would be an exercise that isn''t worth it. Anyway, I just emailed my sales rep that I''d also be happy just undoing the first transaction and I''d leave satisfied with WF''s customer service. I certainly don''t expect WF to bear an undue burden just for the principle of it...

... although since I had not thought of the original possibility that I''d get something noticeably inferior, is it out of the question to think that the next attempt might be noticeably superior? just a thought...