Extra tipping and/or gifts for service professionals

[Bliss]

Ooooh, imagine if servers didn't get a tip at all. I don't think the service would be as good because there wouldn't be an incentive. DMV anyone? LOL.

But on another topic, it is SO cute to see the dialogue between thing2of2 and swedish bean because their avatars are cute kitties. It's like two kitty cats wearing hats having a debate! One cat's wearing a hoodie and the other has a Santa hat on. Both make valid points, but the cats are too cute.

 

[Skippy123]

We tip since most don't make min wage and it is hard work! I wouldn't even consider not tipping; people need tips to live. . .

 

[princesss]

Date: 12/28/2008 6:00:23 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 12/28/2008 5:52:31 PM

Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/28/2008 5:00:02 PM


Author: thing2of2


Yes, but you probably have the skills/education/experience necessary to not have to get a job you couldn''t support yourself with. Not everyone is that lucky and that''s my point.


Of course I think bad service should be tipped differently than good service...but I still tip, no matter what, and it doesn''t bother me at all to tip. That''s the way our system is set up, so that''s what I do.

And I don''t see my skills/ education/ experience as luck-- I see it as a result of my hard work.


In life, there are many things people can take from you, but one thing they can''t take from you is your mind, and your knowledge.

I didn''t say your skills/education/experience were a result of luck, now did I? I just said not everyone is lucky enough to have skills/experience/education, whether it''s a result of family support, hard work, or just plain dumb luck.


But hey, with a sage maxim like your last line, I''m not sure why anyone has a crappy job! Be sure to tell that to every crappy waiter you come across.

Thing2, thanks for being a voice of reason.

I wrote out a whole post...but, ultimately, most of it doesn''t need to be said. A person very close to me is a college educated server who has applied to multiple jobs every day for 7 months. Not everybody can just get another job, no matter how hard they try. Some people are lucky to have any job, even a s*** job like serving.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 12/28/2008 6:25:10 PM
Author: princesss

Date: 12/28/2008 6:00:23 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 12/28/2008 5:52:31 PM

Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/28/2008 5:00:02 PM


Author: thing2of2


Yes, but you probably have the skills/education/experience necessary to not have to get a job you couldn''t support yourself with. Not everyone is that lucky and that''s my point.


Of course I think bad service should be tipped differently than good service...but I still tip, no matter what, and it doesn''t bother me at all to tip. That''s the way our system is set up, so that''s what I do.

And I don''t see my skills/ education/ experience as luck-- I see it as a result of my hard work.


In life, there are many things people can take from you, but one thing they can''t take from you is your mind, and your knowledge.

I didn''t say your skills/education/experience were a result of luck, now did I? I just said not everyone is lucky enough to have skills/experience/education, whether it''s a result of family support, hard work, or just plain dumb luck.


But hey, with a sage maxim like your last line, I''m not sure why anyone has a crappy job! Be sure to tell that to every crappy waiter you come across.

Thing2, thanks for being a voice of reason.

I wrote out a whole post...but, ultimately, most of it doesn''t need to be said. A person very close to me is a college educated server who has applied to multiple jobs every day for 7 months. Not everybody can just get another job, no matter how hard they try. Some people are lucky to have any job, even a s*** job like serving.

Thing2, yor are the voice of reason.
pirncess, I know people in this position too, it''s hard. You have to make ends meet. Plus in this economy, things will only get worse, so being a server of whatever, people will be lucky just to HAVE a job....

 

[princesss]

Date: 12/28/2008 6:35:45 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 12/28/2008 6:25:10 PM

Author: princesss

Date: 12/28/2008 6:00:23 PM

Author: thing2of2

Date: 12/28/2008 5:52:31 PM


Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/28/2008 5:00:02 PM



Author: thing2of2



Yes, but you probably have the skills/education/experience necessary to not have to get a job you couldn''t support yourself with. Not everyone is that lucky and that''s my point.



Of course I think bad service should be tipped differently than good service...but I still tip, no matter what, and it doesn''t bother me at all to tip. That''s the way our system is set up, so that''s what I do.

And I don''t see my skills/ education/ experience as luck-- I see it as a result of my hard work.



In life, there are many things people can take from you, but one thing they can''t take from you is your mind, and your knowledge.

I didn''t say your skills/education/experience were a result of luck, now did I? I just said not everyone is lucky enough to have skills/experience/education, whether it''s a result of family support, hard work, or just plain dumb luck.



But hey, with a sage maxim like your last line, I''m not sure why anyone has a crappy job! Be sure to tell that to every crappy waiter you come across.

Thing2, thanks for being a voice of reason.


I wrote out a whole post...but, ultimately, most of it doesn''t need to be said. A person very close to me is a college educated server who has applied to multiple jobs every day for 7 months. Not everybody can just get another job, no matter how hard they try. Some people are lucky to have any job, even a s*** job like serving.

Thing2, yor are the voice of reason.

pirncess, I know people in this position too, it''s hard. You have to make ends meet. Plus in this economy, things will only get worse, so being a server of whatever, people will be lucky just to HAVE a job....

Kaleigh, it really is tough, but I''m so thankful he has a job! He''s looking at law schools, and trying his best to get out of the situation, but he''s at least got something. And as far as serving jobs go, it''s not too bad.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 12/28/2008 6:18:41 PM
Author: Bliss
Ooooh, imagine if servers didn''t get a tip at all. I don''t think the service would be as good because there wouldn''t be an incentive. DMV anyone? LOL.

But on another topic, it is SO cute to see the dialogue between thing2of2 and swedish bean because their avatars are cute kitties. It''s like two kitty cats wearing hats having a debate! One cat''s wearing a hoodie and the other has a Santa hat on. Both make valid points, but the cats are too cute.

Hahaha-hilarious about the arguing cats!

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 12/28/2008 6:35:45 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 12/28/2008 6:25:10 PM
Author: princesss

Date: 12/28/2008 6:00:23 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 12/28/2008 5:52:31 PM
Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/28/2008 5:00:02 PM
Author: thing2of2

Yes, but you probably have the skills/education/experience necessary to not have to get a job you couldn''t support yourself with. Not everyone is that lucky and that''s my point.

Of course I think bad service should be tipped differently than good service...but I still tip, no matter what, and it doesn''t bother me at all to tip. That''s the way our system is set up, so that''s what I do.

And I don''t see my skills/ education/ experience as luck-- I see it as a result of my hard work.

In life, there are many things people can take from you, but one thing they can''t take from you is your mind, and your knowledge.

I didn''t say your skills/education/experience were a result of luck, now did I? I just said not everyone is lucky enough to have skills/experience/education, whether it''s a result of family support, hard work, or just plain dumb luck.

But hey, with a sage maxim like your last line, I''m not sure why anyone has a crappy job! Be sure to tell that to every crappy waiter you come across.

Thing2, thanks for being a voice of reason.

I wrote out a whole post...but, ultimately, most of it doesn''t need to be said. A person very close to me is a college educated server who has applied to multiple jobs every day for 7 months. Not everybody can just get another job, no matter how hard they try. Some people are lucky to have any job, even a s*** job like serving.

Thing2, yor are the voice of reason.

pirncess, I know people in this position too, it''s hard. You have to make ends meet. Plus in this economy, things will only get worse, so being a server of whatever, people will be lucky just to HAVE a job....

Thanks, princesss and Kaleigh-I''m enjoying my new voice of reason title from you both! Usually I''m just the voice of the Obama worshippers!

 

[violet3]

Date: 12/28/2008 5:55:27 PM
Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/28/2008 5:35:48 PM
Author: CJ2008
Well, I think it should work both ways.

If I''m having a bad day, is it OK for me to take it out on the waiter, and be rude? I don''t think so. And that''s whether I make 15K a year or 115K per year. It isn''t the waiter''s fault if I''m having a bad day or just got into an argument with someone. I think basic courtesy is to be expected both ways. And if you''re in any industry where you deal with people, you need to be courteous. You don''t have to have a huge smile on your face, or make me laugh - you don''t even have to be a ''good'' waiter, it''s OK if you don''t fill my glass as quick as I''d like or you don''t know the night''s specials - but don''t be rude. That is what crosses the line for me.

I agree!! It absolutely works both ways. I don''t take my problems out on others, so that''s why I''m so offended when servers do..

I replied early on in this thread, but was offended enough at some of the comments, that i left it alone after that. I did want to say that i agree 100% with everything said by Thing 2 - very, very well put.

In response to the above quotes by CJ2008 and SwedishBean, you make the point that it''s not OK for you to take out your bad day on a server, so they should not be able to do so to you. I agree. Having said that, I have worked in the service industry for years for extra income/second job and more people than you can imagine take their bad days/bad moods out on people in the service industry...IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

I am sorry if you''ve had crappy, moody servers when you go out to eat - you are right, you deserve pleasant service. Moreover, you are absolutely right that a better server deserves a better tip, and a crummy server deserves less of a tip. You may not take your problems out on others, but plenty of people do. Be aware that when we go to work many people absolutely will take out their bad days/moods/lives on us and we have no recourse. Think about your statement from the opposite end of this equation...you are right, IT SHOULD WORK BOTH WAYS but it doesn''t, and we can certainly make this argument from the other side too (more times than once in a while, i might add).

And SwedishBean, please be respectful of the fact that many of these people are employed in these jobs because they ARE trying to change thier situation, which you keep saying. There are a variety of reasons people may be in service; maybe they lost their job recently, perhaps they are working a second job to feed their family, or they are putting themselves through school and need to work at night...or perhaps that is what they choose to do because they like it. Who Cares? Just because they do a job you say you''d never do does not mean they don''t deserve the same respect that you would expect from others...and i don''t see much respect in your posts regarding this subject.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 12/29/2008 12:01:03 AM
Author: violet3

Date: 12/28/2008 5:55:27 PM
Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/28/2008 5:35:48 PM
Author: CJ2008
Well, I think it should work both ways.

If I''m having a bad day, is it OK for me to take it out on the waiter, and be rude? I don''t think so. And that''s whether I make 15K a year or 115K per year. It isn''t the waiter''s fault if I''m having a bad day or just got into an argument with someone. I think basic courtesy is to be expected both ways. And if you''re in any industry where you deal with people, you need to be courteous. You don''t have to have a huge smile on your face, or make me laugh - you don''t even have to be a ''good'' waiter, it''s OK if you don''t fill my glass as quick as I''d like or you don''t know the night''s specials - but don''t be rude. That is what crosses the line for me.

I agree!! It absolutely works both ways. I don''t take my problems out on others, so that''s why I''m so offended when servers do..

I replied early on in this thread, but was offended enough at some of the comments, that i left it alone after that. I did want to say that i agree 100% with everything said by Thing 2 - very, very well put.

In response to the above quotes by CJ2008 and SwedishBean, you make the point that it''s not OK for you to take out your bad day on a server, so they should not be able to do so to you. I agree. Having said that, I have worked in the service industry for years for extra income/second job and more people than you can imagine take their bad days/bad moods out on people in the service industry...IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

I am sorry if you''ve had crappy, moody servers when you go out to eat - you are right, you deserve pleasant service. Moreover, you are absolutely right that a better server deserves a better tip, and a crummy server deserves less of a tip. You may not take your problems out on others, but plenty of people do. Be aware that when we go to work many people absolutely will take out their bad days/moods/lives on us and we have no recourse. Think about your statement from the opposite end of this equation...you are right, IT SHOULD WORK BOTH WAYS but it doesn''t, and we can certainly make this argument from the other side too (more times than once in a while, i might add).

And SwedishBean, please be respectful of the fact that many of these people are employed in these jobs because they ARE trying to change thier situation, which you keep saying. There are a variety of reasons people may be in service; maybe they lost their job recently, perhaps they are working a second job to feed their family, or they are putting themselves through school and need to work at night...or perhaps that is what they choose to do because they like it. Who Cares? Just because they do a job you say you''d never do does not mean they don''t deserve the same respect that you would expect from others...and i don''t see much respect in your posts regarding this subject.

Well said Violet.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Violet-- So glad you posted again. Very well said.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 12/29/2008 12:34:07 AM
Author: coatimundi
Violet-- So glad you posted again. Very well said.

Ditto, Violet! I agree with you 100% as well.

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 12/28/2008 6:00:23 PM
Author: thing2of2


I didn''t say your skills/education/experience were a result of luck, now did I? I just said not everyone is lucky enough to have skills/experience/education, whether it''s a result of family support, hard work, or just plain dumb luck.

But hey, with a sage maxim like your last line, I''m not sure why anyone has a crappy job! Be sure to tell that to every crappy waiter you come across.

I see that no matter what I say... you''re going to sit there and attack everything. Whatever. What IS your problem with me?

I never said I didn''t tip. I tip. And like I said in another post, I even tip MORE to cover select people that don''t tip at all.

I think that if people hate their jobs, get a new one.

And at the very least, I expect people to do their jobs-- which-- TO ME, includes customer service.
I don''t HAVE to tip. So, if I do have a rude waiter, I''m not going to play into their game and tip more.
That''s how I am. If you''re not like that, then that''s great!

But seriously, what''s your deal?

 

[iheartscience]

By the way, coati-I love the book Nickled and Dimed. I''ve read it several times and I wrote a paper about it a few semesters back. Very eye opening.

And Kaleigh-I also love Waiter Rant. I read his blog regularly but I haven''t read the book yet. It''s on my list, though!

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 12/29/2008 1:44:32 AM
Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/28/2008 6:00:23 PM

Author: thing2of2
I didn't say your skills/education/experience were a result of luck, now did I? I just said not everyone is lucky enough to have skills/experience/education, whether it's a result of family support, hard work, or just plain dumb luck.

But hey, with a sage maxim like your last line, I'm not sure why anyone has a crappy job! Be sure to tell that to every crappy waiter you come across.

I see that no matter what I say... you're going to sit there and attack everything. Whatever. What IS your problem with me?

I never said I didn't tip. I tip. And like I said in another post, I even tip MORE to cover select people that don't tip at all.

I think that if people hate their jobs, get a new one.

And at the very least, I expect people to do their jobs-- which-- TO ME, includes customer service.

I don't HAVE to tip. So, if I do have a rude waiter, I'm not going to play into their game and tip more.

That's how I am. If you're not like that, then that's great!

But seriously, what's your deal?

But seriously, your disdain for people in the service industry is my deal. Your opinions on people living paycheck to paycheck in less than glamorous jobs are ridiculous and offensive. People don't have the ability to get a new job just because they don't like the one they have. As I said before, if it were that easy, everyone would be working their dream job and making six figures. Furthermore, people don't always have the means to go to college and better themselves. Or sometimes they just plain don't have the ability to actually do well in college.

I have no problem with your tipping habits, or with you personally, for that matter. The one and only problem I have is with your "advice" to people living paycheck to paycheck.

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 12/29/2008 12:01:03 AM
Author: violet3

I replied early on in this thread, but was offended enough at some of the comments, that i left it alone after that. I did want to say that i agree 100% with everything said by Thing 2 - very, very well put.

In response to the above quotes by CJ2008 and SwedishBean, you make the point that it''s not OK for you to take out your bad day on a server, so they should not be able to do so to you. I agree. Having said that, I have worked in the service industry for years for extra income/second job and more people than you can imagine take their bad days/bad moods out on people in the service industry...IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

I am sorry if you''ve had crappy, moody servers when you go out to eat - you are right, you deserve pleasant service. Moreover, you are absolutely right that a better server deserves a better tip, and a crummy server deserves less of a tip. You may not take your problems out on others, but plenty of people do. Be aware that when we go to work many people absolutely will take out their bad days/moods/lives on us and we have no recourse. Think about your statement from the opposite end of this equation...you are right, IT SHOULD WORK BOTH WAYS but it doesn''t, and we can certainly make this argument from the other side too (more times than once in a while, i might add).

And SwedishBean, please be respectful of the fact that many of these people are employed in these jobs because they ARE trying to change thier situation, which you keep saying. There are a variety of reasons people may be in service; maybe they lost their job recently, perhaps they are working a second job to feed their family, or they are putting themselves through school and need to work at night...or perhaps that is what they choose to do because they like it. Who Cares? Just because they do a job you say you''d never do does not mean they don''t deserve the same respect that you would expect from others...and i don''t see much respect in your posts regarding this subject.

I see what you''re saying, but I really don''t take my day out on servers. Believe what you want though.... I said I would never be a server not because it''s "below me" or anything like that, but because I know I would absolutely hate being one and dealing with customers. I really don''t understand where all of this crap is coming from... I TIP! I went on to say that bad service I don''t tip as well (and one time not at all) and I don''t feel guilty about it. Do I get bad service on a regular basis? NO. But it has happened. So, again, that''s how I tip. If someone has a problem with the way I tip, then they are more than welcome to tip extra just for me. But at the very least, I expect someone to do their job. If they can''t do that, they should be fired. There are plenty of people that need jobs that could, and would do better.

Speaking from a business stand point wouldn''t you rather have a nicer employee that enjoyed their job than one that was an ass and didn''t care about customers? The nice guy is going to get return customers and hopefully more tips which means more money for the business. The other guy is just being a waste and might turn off customers. All I am asking is for nice servers. I don''t care if they have 80 children to feed, have medical bills to pay, lost their job, or are going to law school... if they don''t do their job, I''m not tipping them more.

Out of everyone I know, I tip more than everyone else too, and no one has a problem with the way I tip. So, I really am confused about all of these... comments.

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 12/29/2008 1:54:43 AM
Author: thing2of2


But seriously, your disdain for people in the service industry is my deal. Your opinions on people living paycheck to paycheck in less than glamorous jobs are ridiculous and offensive. People don''t have the ability to get a new job just because they don''t like the one they have. As I said before, if it were that easy, everyone would be working their dream job and making six figures. Furthermore, people don''t always have the means to go to college and better themselves. Or sometimes they just plain don''t have the ability to actually do well in college.

I have no problem with your tipping habits, or with you personally, for that matter. The one and only problem I have is with your ''advice'' to people living paycheck to paycheck.

Perhaps you took it the wrong way. I made one comment on it. One line, and you''ve been responding to me like this because of that?? I think I saw where someone said where a lot of these people are working paycheck to paycheck and it sucks blah blah. And I''m saying, if you''re a bad server, don''t like your job, then do something about it. Im sure plenty do.. and I''m sure a lot don''t. I''ve lived paycheck to paycheck, I know people that do. But since I didn''t want to be like that, I changed my habits (and jobs). If people can''t do that.. then what more is there to say?? Oh here is more money? I worked hard to get my degree and work at the same time. I worked hard. I don''t think my hard earned money should do charity work to people that don''t do their jobs. And again, I''m talking about a VERY SMALL number here. In general I''ve had great service and I really appreciate people that do their job while a smile (as in, take it lightly).

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 12/29/2008 1:54:43 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 12/29/2008 1:44:32 AM

Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/28/2008 6:00:23 PM


Author: thing2of2

I didn't say your skills/education/experience were a result of luck, now did I? I just said not everyone is lucky enough to have skills/experience/education, whether it's a result of family support, hard work, or just plain dumb luck.


But hey, with a sage maxim like your last line, I'm not sure why anyone has a crappy job! Be sure to tell that to every crappy waiter you come across.

I see that no matter what I say... you're going to sit there and attack everything. Whatever. What IS your problem with me?


I never said I didn't tip. I tip. And like I said in another post, I even tip MORE to cover select people that don't tip at all.


I think that if people hate their jobs, get a new one.


And at the very least, I expect people to do their jobs-- which-- TO ME, includes customer service.


I don't HAVE to tip. So, if I do have a rude waiter, I'm not going to play into their game and tip more.


That's how I am. If you're not like that, then that's great!


But seriously, what's your deal?

But seriously, your disdain for people in the service industry is my deal. Your opinions on people living paycheck to paycheck in less than glamorous jobs are ridiculous and offensive. People don't have the ability to get a new job just because they don't like the one they have. As I said before, if it were that easy, everyone would be working their dream job and making six figures. Furthermore, people don't always have the means to go to college and better themselves. Or sometimes they just plain don't have the ability to actually do well in college.


I have no problem with your tipping habits, or with you personally, for that matter. The one and only problem I have is with your 'advice' to people living paycheck to paycheck.

This is exactly, exactly it.

Swedish Bean, your attitude that "if they don't like it they should find another job" is really out of touch with the reality that many people live, not to mention offensive. You are lucky enough to have other options, as you say you wouldn't do it because you know you'd hate it, which indicates that you work in a different field. You act like everyone has the same choice, and it's just not true. You act like people can just work hard and achieve whatever they want. I agree that many peoples' achievements come because they work hard, but that is not the only factor. Many people are unable to have the opportunity to succeed the way that others are. I am not sure you fully understand that based on your comments here.


As for me, I always tip 20% or more unless someone is downright nasty to me, and then I tip 15%. I worked as a server in the summer for a few years and it was AWFUL. I made $2.65 an hour. My employer was supposed to [by law, I believe] compensate me when I did not make minimum wage including tips, but didn't. Some days the only money I got after a 14 hour long shift was the $2.65 an hour. The kitchen was soooo slow and the food came out late all the time due to no fault of my own. People used to yell at me, and even otherwise very nice people gave me a really hard time because of it. I was always SO nice and pleasant, even when they made me cry because they were so mean, and I would just go in the back and sob for 2 minutes before I had to go out again and greet them with a smile. Other people would come in and order HUNDREDS of dollars worth of food and drink in huge groups [no reservation] and then leave me no tip after I ran around for hours. I understand that some people do not have the money to tip graciously, but that was not the case with most people who ate there. If they can afford the amount of food and drink most of them purchased they can afford the tip as well. I live in a rural area and there were NO other options of places I could work. I applied to 4 other places, and I couldn't afford a car to travel the distance to any other places. I am not sure what I was supposed to do... I guess not work if I didn't like it/couldn't handle it? That wasn't exactly an option considering my circumstances. Especially in this economy it seems people are lucky if they can even GET a service-industry job nevermind be choosy about it.

ETA: I should add that I think one huge issue, as other people brought up, is the way our economy is structured in the US. It's stupid that employers don't pay the employees they hire and expect people to pay their paychecks in tips. It's just a really bad system that leaves many employees in bad conditions and puts a burden on the consumer that is simply unnecessary. But it's the system we live in. I know everyone has acknowledged that, but it's worth pointing out. When you don't tip someone they often don't get paid at all. I know, they should be nicer, but they're human too.

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 12/28/2008 6:18:41 PM
Author: Bliss
Ooooh, imagine if servers didn''t get a tip at all. I don''t think the service would be as good because there wouldn''t be an incentive. DMV anyone? LOL.

But on another topic, it is SO cute to see the dialogue between thing2of2 and swedish bean because their avatars are cute kitties. It''s like two kitty cats wearing hats having a debate! One cat''s wearing a hoodie and the other has a Santa hat on. Both make valid points, but the cats are too cute.

This is a little along the lines of how I feel. If you tipped everyone the same, where is the "incentive" to even try? There will always be those few people that want to do the bare minimum they have to- to get paid. But then again, there are people that don''t. I really feel those people that are nice and all that sugar should get paid more!!

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 12/29/2008 2:09:13 AM
Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/29/2008 1:54:43 AM

Author: thing2of2

But seriously, your disdain for people in the service industry is my deal. Your opinions on people living paycheck to paycheck in less than glamorous jobs are ridiculous and offensive. People don't have the ability to get a new job just because they don't like the one they have. As I said before, if it were that easy, everyone would be working their dream job and making six figures. Furthermore, people don't always have the means to go to college and better themselves. Or sometimes they just plain don't have the ability to actually do well in college.

I have no problem with your tipping habits, or with you personally, for that matter. The one and only problem I have is with your 'advice' to people living paycheck to paycheck.

Perhaps you took it the wrong way. I made one comment on it. One line, and you've been responding to me like this because of that?? I think I saw where someone said where a lot of these people are working paycheck to paycheck and it sucks blah blah. And I'm saying, if you're a bad server, don't like your job, then do something about it. Im sure plenty do.. and I'm sure a lot don't. I've lived paycheck to paycheck, I know people that do. But since I didn't want to be like that, I changed my habits (and jobs). If people can't do that.. then what more is there to say?? Oh here is more money? I worked hard to get my degree and work at the same time. I worked hard. I don't think my hard earned money should do charity work to people that don't do their jobs. And again, I'm talking about a VERY SMALL number here. In general I've had great service and I really appreciate people that do their job while a smile (as in, take it lightly).

Nope, I'm certain I didn't take anything the wrong way. You've continued to reiterate the same opinion on people working in the service industry, and this post is no exception. Again, I don't have a problem with how you tip, or you, but I have a major problem with your attitude towards those in the service industry.

ETA I highly recommend that you read "Nickled and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich to get a better grasp on the issues many people in the service industry face.

 

[violet3]

Date: 12/29/2008 2:00:25 AM
Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/29/2008 12:01:03 AM
Author: violet3

I replied early on in this thread, but was offended enough at some of the comments, that i left it alone after that. I did want to say that i agree 100% with everything said by Thing 2 - very, very well put.

In response to the above quotes by CJ2008 and SwedishBean, you make the point that it's not OK for you to take out your bad day on a server, so they should not be able to do so to you. I agree. Having said that, I have worked in the service industry for years for extra income/second job and more people than you can imagine take their bad days/bad moods out on people in the service industry...IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

I am sorry if you've had crappy, moody servers when you go out to eat - you are right, you deserve pleasant service. Moreover, you are absolutely right that a better server deserves a better tip, and a crummy server deserves less of a tip. You may not take your problems out on others, but plenty of people do. Be aware that when we go to work many people absolutely will take out their bad days/moods/lives on us and we have no recourse. Think about your statement from the opposite end of this equation...you are right, IT SHOULD WORK BOTH WAYS but it doesn't, and we can certainly make this argument from the other side too (more times than once in a while, i might add).

And SwedishBean, please be respectful of the fact that many of these people are employed in these jobs because they ARE trying to change thier situation, which you keep saying. There are a variety of reasons people may be in service; maybe they lost their job recently, perhaps they are working a second job to feed their family, or they are putting themselves through school and need to work at night...or perhaps that is what they choose to do because they like it. Who Cares? Just because they do a job you say you'd never do does not mean they don't deserve the same respect that you would expect from others...and i don't see much respect in your posts regarding this subject.

I see what you're saying, but I really don't take my day out on servers. Believe what you want though.... I said I would never be a server not because it's 'below me' or anything like that, but because I know I would absolutely hate being one and dealing with customers. I really don't understand where all of this crap is coming from... I TIP! I went on to say that bad service I don't tip as well (and one time not at all) and I don't feel guilty about it. Do I get bad service on a regular basis? NO. But it has happened. So, again, that's how I tip. If someone has a problem with the way I tip, then they are more than welcome to tip extra just for me. But at the very least, I expect someone to do their job. If they can't do that, they should be fired. There are plenty of people that need jobs that could, and would do better.

Speaking from a business stand point wouldn't you rather have a nicer employee that enjoyed their job than one that was an ass and didn't care about customers? The nice guy is going to get return customers and hopefully more tips which means more money for the business. The other guy is just being a waste and might turn off customers. All I am asking is for nice servers. I don't care if they have 80 children to feed, have medical bills to pay, lost their job, or are going to law school... if they don't do their job, I'm not tipping them more.

Out of everyone I know, I tip more than everyone else too, and no one has a problem with the way I tip. So, I really am confused about all of these... comments.

You and i clearly are not on the same page, or you didn't really understand me... see highlighted above.

1. Per the highlighted yellow sections, i DON'T think you take your day out on servers - as you can clearly see when i state "you may not take your problems out on others, but plenty of people do." I was simply stating that when you say it should "work both ways" in terms of respect, you could be stating that from the customers' point of view OR from the servers' point of view.

2. I also was not in any way stating that someone should be able to give crappy service to you because they "have 80 children to feed, have medical bills to pay, lost their job, or are going to law school." You can read this for yourself in the highlighted blue section where i state "you are right, you deserve pleasant service. Moreover, you are absolutely right that a better server deserves a better tip, and a crummy server deserves less of a tip."

3. I have absolutely no problem at all with the way you tip people (and neither does anyone else on here it seems).

I say that we are not on the same page, because your answers to my post do not actually address anything i wrote at all...

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 12/29/2008 2:12:30 AM
Author: WishfulThinking

This is exactly, exactly it.

Swedish Bean, your attitude that ''if they don''t like it they should find another job'' is really out of touch with the reality that many people live, not to mention offensive. You are lucky enough to have other options, as you say you wouldn''t do it because you know you''d hate it, which indicates that you work in a different field. You act like everyone has the same choice, and it''s just not true. You act like people can just work hard and achieve whatever they want. I agree that many peoples'' achievements come because they work hard, but that is not the only factor. Many people are unable to have the opportunity to succeed the way that others are. I am not sure you fully understand that based on your comments here.


As for me, I always tip 20% or more unless someone is downright nasty to me, and then I tip 15%. I worked as a server in the summer for a few years and it was AWFUL. I made $2.65 an hour. My employer was supposed to [by law, I believe] compensate me when I did not make minimum wage including tips, but didn''t. Some days the only money I got after a 14 hour long shift was the $2.65 an hour. The kitchen was soooo slow and the food came out late all the time due to no fault of my own. People used to yell at me, and even otherwise very nice people gave me a really hard time because of it. I was always SO nice and pleasant, even when they made me cry because they were so mean, and I would just go in the back and sob for 2 minutes before I had to go out again and greet them with a smile. Other people would come in and order HUNDREDS of dollars worth of food and drink in huge groups [no reservation] and then leave me no tip after I ran around for hours. I understand that some people do not have the money to tip graciously, but that was not the case with most people who ate there. If they can afford the amount of food and drink most of them purchased they can afford the tip as well. I live in a rural area and there were NO other options of places I could work. I applied to 4 other places, and I couldn''t afford a car to travel the distance to any other places. I am not sure what I was supposed to do... I guess not work if I didn''t like it/couldn''t handle it? That wasn''t exactly an option considering my circumstances. Especially in this economy it seems people are lucky if they can even GET a service-industry job nevermind be choosy about it.

Ahh!! I''m being offensive because I strongly believe people should get another job if they don''t like their job? Well screw half of america then. I don''t know how to better say it. I understand what you are saying about not having a car, and living in a small area. I live in a place where there are 3+ places to eat on each street, and business EVERYWHERE. People DON''T need cars where I am

In fact, it''s actually easier for the parking if people don''t. I think I was really applying that more to my situation and where I live, than some rural city.

I''m sorry you were paid next to nothing. Where I live, people make more than that. By like, a lot. And I''m sorry if some people didn''t tip you. But if you were my server, and even if the food came out late (hey, if that''s the case, just tell me!) then I would''ve tipped you just the same. Now, if you gave me another meal, and didn''t get me a drink for a half hour while the place was slow and I saw ya smoking outside, I''d be less then thrilled about my service.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 12/29/2008 2:25:01 AM
Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/29/2008 2:12:30 AM

Author: WishfulThinking


This is exactly, exactly it.


Swedish Bean, your attitude that ''if they don''t like it they should find another job'' is really out of touch with the reality that many people live, not to mention offensive. You are lucky enough to have other options, as you say you wouldn''t do it because you know you''d hate it, which indicates that you work in a different field. You act like everyone has the same choice, and it''s just not true. You act like people can just work hard and achieve whatever they want. I agree that many peoples'' achievements come because they work hard, but that is not the only factor. Many people are unable to have the opportunity to succeed the way that others are. I am not sure you fully understand that based on your comments here.



As for me, I always tip 20% or more unless someone is downright nasty to me, and then I tip 15%. I worked as a server in the summer for a few years and it was AWFUL. I made $2.65 an hour. My employer was supposed to [by law, I believe] compensate me when I did not make minimum wage including tips, but didn''t. Some days the only money I got after a 14 hour long shift was the $2.65 an hour. The kitchen was soooo slow and the food came out late all the time due to no fault of my own. People used to yell at me, and even otherwise very nice people gave me a really hard time because of it. I was always SO nice and pleasant, even when they made me cry because they were so mean, and I would just go in the back and sob for 2 minutes before I had to go out again and greet them with a smile. Other people would come in and order HUNDREDS of dollars worth of food and drink in huge groups [no reservation] and then leave me no tip after I ran around for hours. I understand that some people do not have the money to tip graciously, but that was not the case with most people who ate there. If they can afford the amount of food and drink most of them purchased they can afford the tip as well. I live in a rural area and there were NO other options of places I could work. I applied to 4 other places, and I couldn''t afford a car to travel the distance to any other places. I am not sure what I was supposed to do... I guess not work if I didn''t like it/couldn''t handle it? That wasn''t exactly an option considering my circumstances. Especially in this economy it seems people are lucky if they can even GET a service-industry job nevermind be choosy about it.

Ahh!! I''m being offensive because I strongly believe people should get another job if they don''t like their job? Well screw half of america then. I don''t know how to better say it. I understand what you are saying about not having a car, and living in a small area. I live in a place where there are 3+ places to eat on each street, and business EVERYWHERE. People DON''T need cars where I am

In fact, it''s actually easier for the parking if people don''t. I think I was really applying that more to my situation and where I live, than some rural city.


I''m sorry you were paid next to nothing. Where I live, people make more than that. By like, a lot. And I''m sorry if some people didn''t tip you. But if you were my server, and even if the food came out late (hey, if that''s the case, just tell me!) then I would''ve tipped you just the same. Now, if you gave me another meal, and didn''t get me a drink for a half hour while the place was slow and I saw ya smoking outside, I''d be less then thrilled about my service.

That''s the thing, my specific situation was specific to me; other people face different obstacles. If there were a ton of places to work like it seems there are near you, and you don''t need a car to get around, that doesn''t mean that many people still do NOT have the option of working someplace else, especially not in a different industry. It has to do with socioeconomic class, education, intelligence- a ton of different factors. If hard work got you everything you wanted in life, people would all have awesome jobs and fewer people would not live in poverty!

I am also not sure how you know how much servers in your area are paid as a base wage. I know in many places, cities included and all across the country, the base wage is FAR below minimum wage and tips are supposed to make up for it. I understand that you are understanding of the people who serve you and considerate of them, but keep in mind that you are not their only customer. I am sure I was meek and quiet and smiling obviously fakely with red eyes and a tear-stained face waiting on perfectly sweet customers who I happened to be serving at the same time as someone exceptionally horrible. I''m sure they didn''t think I was sweet like sunshine, but I was doing my best. Sometimes the not awesome service is people being people... human beings with emotions that don''t turn on and off just because they work in a service industry job and are expected to be nice to people all day long. I am NOT by any means saying that bad service is acceptable or that all people who give bad service are having a horrible time of it. I''m sure many of them are just bad at their jobs or not very nice people. However, those things don''t mean they have the option of just quitting their job and working someplace else. To say that indicates that you have a poor understanding of many peoples'' situations.

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 12/29/2008 2:22:27 AM
Author: violet3

You and i clearly are not on the same page, or you didn''t really understand me... see highlighted above.

1. Per the highlighted yellow sections, i DON''T think you take your day out on servers - as you can clearly see when i state ''you may not take your problems out on others, but plenty of people do.'' I was simply stating that when you say it should ''work both ways'' in terms of respect, you could be stating that from the customers'' point of view OR from the servers'' point of view.

2. I also was not in any way stating that someone should be able to give crappy service to you because they ''have 80 children to feed, have medical bills to pay, lost their job, or are going to law school.'' You can read this for yourself in the highlighted blue section where i state ''you are right, you deserve pleasant service. Moreover, you are absolutely right that a better server deserves a better tip, and a crummy server deserves less of a tip.''

3. I have absolutely no problem at all with the way you tip people (and neither does anyone else on here it seems).

I say that we are not on the same page, because your answers to my post do not actually address anything i wrote at all...

I am overwhelmed with responding to everyone. I am feeling attacked. By all sides here. I often times have a hard time expressing my exact thought without it coming across as too mean or whatever.

With point 1. I think I was addressing everyone else with that too, just restating the fact that really don''t take my problems out on others. And I feel sorry for people that do. Servers especially, because that can put them in a bad mood

Point 2, I know that''s not what you were saying. I was writing in general by that point.

3. I think if everyone in this forum was sitting at a table with a drink, this conversation might go better. It''s hard to tell how I''m saying things and I''ve re-read some things where it seems I''m being rude, and that''s not my intention. I think my opinion, however wrong it may be, should be respected like everyone elses though.

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 12/29/2008 2:32:36 AM
Author: WishfulThinking

That''s the thing, my specific situation was specific to me; other people face different obstacles. If there were a ton of places to work like it seems there are near you, and you don''t need a car to get around, that doesn''t mean that many people still do NOT have the option of working someplace else, especially not in a different industry. It has to do with socioeconomic class, education, intelligence- a ton of different factors. If hard work got you everything you wanted in life, people would all have awesome jobs and fewer people would not live in poverty!

I am also not sure how you know how much servers in your area are paid as a base wage. I know in many places, cities included and all across the country, the base wage is FAR below minimum wage and tips are supposed to make up for it. I understand that you are understanding of the people who serve you and considerate of them, but keep in mind that you are not their only customer. I am sure I was meek and quiet and smiling obviously fakely with red eyes and a tear-stained face waiting on perfectly sweet customers who I happened to be serving at the same time as someone exceptionally horrible. I''m sure they didn''t think I was sweet like sunshine, but I was doing my best. Sometimes the not awesome service is people being people... human beings with emotions that don''t turn on and off just because they work in a service industry job and are expected to be nice to people all day long. I am NOT by any means saying that bad service is acceptable or that all people who give bad service are having a horrible time of it. I''m sure many of them are just bad at their jobs or not very nice people. However, those things don''t mean they have the option of just quitting their job and working someplace else. To say that indicates that you have a poor understanding of many peoples'' situations.

I know people that work in the service industry. And people that previously did. They all made mimum wage or higher. I believe where I am, you cannot get paid less ?? At least I haven''t seen any place around here that offeres $3 an hour. That''s an insult!

I do feel bad for people that have hardships. I used to volunteer A LOT (until a scary unfortunate situation). Those people that might have 80 children, or medical bills.. I DO CARE, but just not in the way where some might feel I should tip them more based only on that.

And if people have it that bad, my state.. at least.. does offer assistance. I know you can get medical care free or based off of what you have left in your income (which is pretty darn important) and other food assistance. I do care! But not when it comes down to me giving my money to someone that was a jerk. And again, I''m sorry if you didn''t get tipped, and I understand that others taking things out on you is awful, but at the least, I just want my food, and my drinks and a smile.. I do appreciate being told if the food will be late though, but since I am usually with friends, I don''t normally notice if food is "late".

Also, this is obviously just me, but I 110% feel that the customer is number one. If I ever had to get a retail job again, it would be hard for me. I put everything into everything I do. When I was going to school and working in a photo lab, I did some 12 hour days at my job (when supposed to do because I wanted to get things right for customers. I LOVE making customers happy. It was my job! Well, my job at that time was getting those pictures printed perfectly and babysitting my co-workers, but I really loved making customers happy and having them come back over and over just because they know they''ll get great service. I guess I apply that to servers too. There were days I was cranky with co-workers because they broke machines and of course I had to fix them, not take a lunch break, and hold pee for hours, but overall I really enjoyed that work.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 12/29/2008 2:49:51 AM
Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/29/2008 2:32:36 AM

Author: WishfulThinking


That's the thing, my specific situation was specific to me; other people face different obstacles. If there were a ton of places to work like it seems there are near you, and you don't need a car to get around, that doesn't mean that many people still do NOT have the option of working someplace else, especially not in a different industry. It has to do with socioeconomic class, education, intelligence- a ton of different factors. If hard work got you everything you wanted in life, people would all have awesome jobs and fewer people would not live in poverty!


I am also not sure how you know how much servers in your area are paid as a base wage. I know in many places, cities included and all across the country, the base wage is FAR below minimum wage and tips are supposed to make up for it. I understand that you are understanding of the people who serve you and considerate of them, but keep in mind that you are not their only customer. I am sure I was meek and quiet and smiling obviously fakely with red eyes and a tear-stained face waiting on perfectly sweet customers who I happened to be serving at the same time as someone exceptionally horrible. I'm sure they didn't think I was sweet like sunshine, but I was doing my best. Sometimes the not awesome service is people being people... human beings with emotions that don't turn on and off just because they work in a service industry job and are expected to be nice to people all day long. I am NOT by any means saying that bad service is acceptable or that all people who give bad service are having a horrible time of it. I'm sure many of them are just bad at their jobs or not very nice people. However, those things don't mean they have the option of just quitting their job and working someplace else. To say that indicates that you have a poor understanding of many peoples' situations.

I know people that work in the service industry. And people that previously did. They all made mimum wage or higher. I believe where I am, you cannot get paid less ?? At least I haven't seen any place around here that offeres $3 an hour. That's an insult!


I do feel bad for people that have hardships. I used to volunteer A LOT (until a scary unfortunate situation). Those people that might have 80 children, or medical bills.. I DO CARE, but just not in the way where some might feel I should tip them more based only on that.


And if people have it that bad, my state.. at least.. does offer assistance. I know you can get medical care free or based off of what you have left in your income (which is pretty darn important) and other food assistance. I do care! But not when it comes down to me giving my money to someone that was a jerk. And again, I'm sorry if you didn't get tipped, and I understand that others taking things out on you is awful, but at the least, I just want my food, and my drinks and a smile.. I do appreciate being told if the food will be late though, but since I am usually with friends, I don't normally notice if food is 'late'.


Also, this is obviously just me, but I 110% feel that the customer is number one. If I ever had to get a retail job again, it would be hard for me. I put everything into everything I do. When I was going to school and working in a photo lab, I did some 12 hour days at my job (when supposed to do because I wanted to get things right for customers. I LOVE making customers happy. It was my job! Well, my job at that time was getting those pictures printed perfectly and babysitting my co-workers, but I really loved making customers happy and having them come back over and over just because they know they'll get great service. I guess I apply that to servers too. There were days I was cranky with co-workers because they broke machines and of course I had to fix them, not take a lunch break, and hold pee for hours, but overall I really enjoyed that work.

I think you might not be really getting what I am saying. You sound like an awesome person in SO many ways, and I am definitely not attacking you. I agree with most of the things you've said, especially in this post!

My one and only issue is that you are under the impression that people can just leave their jobs if they want to as you have had the privilege of doing. Not everyone can choose their profession. I do not think you should tip rude or really horribly negligent people simply because they have expenses they need to cover. Some people are totally out of line- I know, I've had it happen to me, too! However, it's important to understand that in many areas [apparently not in yours, but it is legal in many states all over the country] the tips are the vast majority of the money someone makes, and not tipping them gives them close to no income. In other words: it's not really a bonus on their usual pay, but the pay itself. Overall you seem to understand that; other people seem to have a bit more trouble with it.

What your posts show you might not quite understand is that even if people are treated like sh*t and hate their jobs and are miserable because of them, they can't always just find another job. Furthermore, even if they suck at it and are a horrible person they probably also can't get another job, but I promise I won't tell you to tip them 20%.

 

[that_someone_special]

Date: 12/29/2008 3:03:51 AM
Author: WishfulThinking

I think you might not be really getting what I am saying. You sound like an awesome person in SO many ways, and I am definitely not attacking you. I agree with most of the things you''ve said, especially in this post!

My one and only issue is that you are under the impression that people can just leave their jobs if they want to as you have had the privilege of doing. Not everyone can choose their profession. I do not think you should tip rude or really horribly negligent people simply because they have expenses they need to cover. Some people are totally out of line- I know, I''ve had it happen to me, too! However, it''s important to understand that in many areas [apparently not in yours, but it is legal in many states all over the country] the tips are the vast majority of the money someone makes, and not tipping them gives them close to no income. In other words: it''s not really a bonus on their usual pay, but the pay itself. Overall you seem to understand that; other people seem to have a bit more trouble with it.

What your posts show you might not quite understand is that even if people are treated like sh*t and hate their jobs and are miserable because of them, they can''t always just find another job. Furthermore, even if they suck at it and are a horrible person they probably also can''t get another job, but I promise I won''t tell you to tip them 20%.

I really wish those states would change it. And honestly, I thought all states were like that

that min wage was the bare minimum (makes sense right?)

Those people would/ will probably get fired soon enough.

I have a friend right now that is WAY over qualified for her job, and took a retail job just to have some money vs no money. This place has been firing up to 2 people a week just for them talking to friends while working (like they came into the store and just started chatting away). I see that, and I know the economy is bad, but since there are more people that need jobs you would think more people are deemed "replaceable".

Hmm I also think that my stance on "get a new job if you don''t like yours" is deeply personal. I''ve had bad jobs where I felt under appreciated and not paid enough. I quit! And that''s just my stance on it. I''d rather find work another way than be unhappy.. so my views on this stuff is all pretty personal and for a reason, not just because I want to seem tough and insensitive

 

[elle_chris]

If anyone's wondering how much "tipped employees" make per hour- here's the breakdown form the department of labor that shows the wages by state. It's pretty frightening.
The way the laws are set up now, allow people in most states to make less than minimum wage per hour, provided the tips they earn equal the minimum wage.
The lowest I've noticed on that list is Kansas, where employers are allowed to pay $1.59 per hour.

Link http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/state/tipped.htm

 

[violet3]

Date: 12/29/2008 3:27:24 AM
Author: swedish bean

Date: 12/29/2008 3:03:51 AM
Author: WishfulThinking

I think you might not be really getting what I am saying. You sound like an awesome person in SO many ways, and I am definitely not attacking you. I agree with most of the things you''ve said, especially in this post!

My one and only issue is that you are under the impression that people can just leave their jobs if they want to as you have had the privilege of doing. Not everyone can choose their profession. I do not think you should tip rude or really horribly negligent people simply because they have expenses they need to cover. Some people are totally out of line- I know, I''ve had it happen to me, too! However, it''s important to understand that in many areas [apparently not in yours, but it is legal in many states all over the country] the tips are the vast majority of the money someone makes, and not tipping them gives them close to no income. In other words: it''s not really a bonus on their usual pay, but the pay itself. Overall you seem to understand that; other people seem to have a bit more trouble with it.

What your posts show you might not quite understand is that even if people are treated like sh*t and hate their jobs and are miserable because of them, they can''t always just find another job. Furthermore, even if they suck at it and are a horrible person they probably also can''t get another job, but I promise I won''t tell you to tip them 20%.

I really wish those states would change it. And honestly, I thought all states were like that

that min wage was the bare minimum (makes sense right?)

Those people would/ will probably get fired soon enough.

I have a friend right now that is WAY over qualified for her job, and took a retail job just to have some money vs no money. This place has been firing up to 2 people a week just for them talking to friends while working (like they came into the store and just started chatting away). I see that, and I know the economy is bad, but since there are more people that need jobs you would think more people are deemed ''replaceable''.

Hmm I also think that my stance on ''get a new job if you don''t like yours'' is deeply personal. I''ve had bad jobs where I felt under appreciated and not paid enough. I quit! And that''s just my stance on it. I''d rather find work another way than be unhappy.. so my views on this stuff is all pretty personal and for a reason, not just because I want to seem tough and insensitive

For anyone who doesn''t know, do check out the breakdown Elle posted by state (thanks Elle!) - minimum wage varies state to state anyway, but tipped employees do not make minimum wage in many states, because the tips are their wages. That is, however unfortunate, the way the system is set up for both business owner and the employees.

I posted this earlier in the thread, but i will post it again, where i live tipped employees make just a little more than $2.00/hour - for the record, minimum wage is around $7.00/hour. Once a tipped employee claims their tips they have made for the evening (which you have to do) the state and federal cannot take out enough money from your lousy $2.00 /hour to cover what you owe in taxes. Pretty much every single week, that employees paycheck will come back to them at $0.00. And on top of that, they will owe money to the state and federal government at the end of the year. TIPS ARE THE ONLY WAGES IN THE CASE OF MANY TIPPED EMPLOYEES.

Does this mean they should be allowed to give crappy service? no, it does not. Should you understand all of this before posting repeatedly about how a tipped employee should and should not behave, or how much they should and should not be tipped? yes, you probably should.

I am sorry you were feeling attacked on this thread - it''s a shame it came down to you having to reply to every single post. I don''t think you are a bad person, and i do think you are right that your opinion, whatever it is, should be respected just like everyone else''s. But i do hope that maybe now that perhaps your opinion has changed a little...