Falling in love with someone else's spouse

[TravelingGal]

The NYT wrote a story about a couple who celebrated a wedding which broke up two marriages. MSNBC does a story and commentary on it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40764551#40764551

What do you think? If one were to really find his/her soulmate in someone else's spouse and the sentiment is returned, should they go for it? Or does duty and responsibility take first place?

Of course being a married woman, I'd say the latter. But I would have to tread carefully in TGuy's family. His sister met a man at a party. Both she and he were married (no kids though). They left their partners to be together and had two kids. Together for 10 years, married late into the relationship (had kids before marriage).

They are now divorced.

 

[chemgirl]

I don't know how there could be real trust in a relationship that starts like that. I think, if it were me, I'd always be worried about my spouse having female friends. How could you not be insecure...if they can do it once, what's stopping them from doing it again?

ETA: same goes for the wife...I was just speaking from my point of view in this case.

 

[Lula]

I saw this on Sunday, and I have to say it kind of bugged me in a way I couldn't quite put my finger on. And what bugged me the most is that they submitted their story to the NYT and the Times published it -- that seems almost cruel to their former spouses to have this "love story" make national news.

 

[TravelingGal]

It's definitely adding insult to injury. Could it be that two people who are self absorbed enough to think their kids would be fine from this, simply didn't think about what it would do have this story in the NYT?

I do wonder though, if perhaps the "life's too short" camp have a valid point. Personally, I totally don't agree with it, but I understand to some degree living YOUR life because it's the only one you've got. But when I made the decision to marry and have a family, my life affects too many people to live strictly for myself. Obviously that's no way to live when you have a family.

 

[Winks_Elf]

I read once that statistics show 95% of relationships that begin in an adulterous manner fail. Rule #1 that parents should teach their children about relationships is that you don't cheat. Rule #2, You certainly do not go after a friend's partner. Rule #3, If you think you are not happy, talk to your partner and find out why. If you are married, work through it if at all possible. Too many people have the idea that "if it doesn't work out, we can get a divorce." The first part of that sentiment is setting the relationship up for failure to begin with.

Marriage is a lot like a rose garden. To outsiders looking at it, it looks wonderful. But they don't think about the work that goes into it to make it as grand as it is. Cars and houses fall apart if not properly maintained. So do marriages. So as to the original question ("What do you think? If one were to really find his/her soulmate in someone else's spouse and the sentiment is returned, should they go for it? Or does duty and responsibility take first place?") I'd have to say no, you don't go for it. Find happiness in your spouse and in your marriage.

 

[Lula]

It's definitely adding insult to injury. Could it be that two people who are self absorbed enough to think their kids would be fine from this, simply didn't think about what it would do have this story in the NYT?

I do wonder though, if perhaps the "life's too short" camp have a valid point. Personally, I totally don't agree with it, but I understand to some degree living YOUR life because it's the only one you've got. But when I made the decision to marry and have a family, my life affects too many people to live strictly for myself. Obviously that's no way to live when you have a family.

Oh, yes, self-absorption would be at the top of my list! I do see the "life's too short" side of it, but I have to admit, I do wonder if their marriage will last. Marriage is tough enough without these kinds of relationship tangles. But, who knows, maybe their former spouses gave them their blessing.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I think that this is a really heavy "what if" and it's totally and entirely subjective to the couple in question.

I think if a couple is already having problems, the catalyst of fresh love is tempting and inviting. If a couple is in the roommate phase of their relationship and not really in it for the sanctity any more, then maybe just maybe moving on is a good thing. Even with kids involved. Leaving a bad relationship is better than staying.

However, I also believe that if a couple is madly in love and either of them finds themselves drawn to another, then figuring out what the story is behind the "need" is a good thing before moving forward.

Totally subjective.

 

[TravelingGal]

I just saw on CNN that Shania Twain is engaged to the man who was married to the woman that her husband left her for (geez, that's a mouthful!) Not sure it that was mentioned in the video I linked, but oof...talk about karma.

 

[TravelingGal]

Oh, and the article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/fashion/weddings/19vows.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&ref=weddings&adxnnlx=1292937436-VmzX7Kd+9BOh9ESBdlymMg

I haven't read it yet, but interested to see what the hubbub is about.

 

[dragonfly411]

In my world, you don't go after someone that's already taken. If you do, you are as low down and dirty as it gets. That's just my world though. I've been on the other end... having people coming after who I'm with.... having them choose that other person..... it is the worst feeling in the entire world. You feel worthless.... pathetic....inadequate... easily replaced.... useless...unattractive.

 

[Jessie702]

You dont go for it. You married your husband, and love him, if you bail, youll bail on that guy, when you find your other" SoulMate". There a funny thing about soulmates, your can find them, and its your mate, but sometimes, it doesnt work out to a romantic relationship. Some soul mates are meant to just be friends, or find each other and than move on. Sometimes, you have a life before you find the " soulmate" and you ahve to be faithful to that life. I hate people who choose to end a relationship, because they found their mate, or whatever. Seriously, you already choose someone, and what the hell are you doing looking or possible more with someone else's spouse? Sorry if this doesnt make sense, i just got up.

 

[onedrop]

I read that piece in the "Wedding & Celebration" section in The Times on Sunday and had to re-read it in order to grasp why this story needed to be publicized in the manner that it was given the circumstances. But perhaps that is a different issue than the one TGal presented.

I do *get* the situation presented in this case because sometimes there are attractions that happen between two people regardless of marital status. However, the phrase "chasing butterflies," which was used in a thread posted in Hangout earlier this week comes to mind regarding the NY Times couple. For me if I were unhappy with my spouse, any attraction that I might have to another person that would cause to me to want to leave my spouse I think would be more of a symptom of my own issues rather than real *love.* It's unclear from the piece in The TImes whether there was unhappiness in the previous marriages, or whether this was just a "I found my soul mate" situation. Either way, the genesis of this marriage will always be tainted, regardless of how it's dressed up in *love.* And how do you really get over that?

I'd love to have an update on this couple in a year or two.

 

[TravelingGal]

Playing devil's advocate here...

I read the article. Since they met in the school, their commonality was their children. Both couples hung out. I'm sure they participated in play dates, and even took family vacation together. Somewhere along the way, a spark lit.

Now, I currently hang out with 8 other couples. Ususally the women hang out a lot and the men separately, but we often have big get togethers and everyone talks to everyone else. I honestly look at the men as brothers and CAN'T IMAGINE but scenarios like this, stuff can happen without anyone seeking it, per se. As a married couple, you can't avoid other couples, right? I mean, it's kind of normal for parents to mingle with other parents at their kids schools.

So you realize you're in love with someone else. Wouldn't the family suffer as much if both stayed in a marriage where their hearts simply weren't in it?

For the record, I'd say you don't take the leap...not without a lot of counseling and trying to fall back in love with your spouse. It sounds like the couple in this article ended their marriages way too fast.

 

[TravelingGal]

I read that piece in the "Wedding & Celebration" section in The Times on Sunday and had to re-read it in order to grasp why this story needed to be publicized in the manner that it was given the circumstances. But perhaps that is a different issue than the one TGal presented.

I do *get* the situation presented in this case because sometimes there are attractions that happen between two people regardless of marital status. However, the phrase "chasing butterflies," which was used in a thread posted in Hangout earlier this week comes to mind regarding the NY Times couple. For me if I were unhappy with my spouse, any attraction that I might have to another person that would cause to me to want to leave my spouse I think would be more of a symptom of my own issues than real *love.*

I'd love to have an update on this couple in a year or two.

onedrop, I see the chasing butterflies thing as a real issue with some women. I LOVE my SIL but I don't understand why they divorced. She told me at my wedding that her husband (they were separated by that point) just didn't make her feel special anymore. That he never noticed the little things...like when she got a haircut, her son told her she looked pretty. She said something was wrong if you had to get compliments from your son.

I nodded, but I just didn't understand. I was thinking, uh, your brother does the same thing to me on most days! Love is more than compliments! There was a thread on PS a long time ago, asking what you love most about your SO. MANY many answers were along the lines of "he makes me feel special" or "he understands me." Answers that made you think you had found your "soulmate" because they just *got* you. I'd venture to say that many of these relationship are headed for rough waters because one of the ways to make a marriage succeed is to GIVE, not take. If taking is your focus...well...good luck.

 

[onedrop]

I read that piece in the "Wedding & Celebration" section in The Times on Sunday and had to re-read it in order to grasp why this story needed to be publicized in the manner that it was given the circumstances. But perhaps that is a different issue than the one TGal presented.

I do *get* the situation presented in this case because sometimes there are attractions that happen between two people regardless of marital status. However, the phrase "chasing butterflies," which was used in a thread posted in Hangout earlier this week comes to mind regarding the NY Times couple. For me if I were unhappy with my spouse, any attraction that I might have to another person that would cause to me to want to leave my spouse I think would be more of a symptom of my own issues than real *love.*

I'd love to have an update on this couple in a year or two.

onedrop, I see the chasing butterflies thing as a real issue with some women. I LOVE my SIL but I don't understand why they divorced. She told me at my wedding that her husband (they were separated by that point) just didn't make her feel special anymore. That he never noticed the little things...like when she got a haircut, her son told her she looked pretty. She said something was wrong if you had to get compliments from your son.

I nodded, but I just didn't understand. I was thinking, uh, your brother does the same thing to me on most days! Love is more than compliments! There was a thread on PS a long time ago, asking what you love most about your SO. MANY many answers were along the lines of "he makes me feel special" or "he understands me." Answers that made you think you had found your "soulmate" because they just *got* you. I'd venture to say that many of these relationship are headed for rough waters because one of the ways to make a marriage succeed is to GIVE, not take. If taking is your focus...well...good luck.

If I am being honest, early on in my marriage I would have had the same wants as your SIL and probably thought of chasing a few butterflies myself. However, with four years (almost) under my belt I have become a lot more realistic about my expectations about what I need in my marriage to be happy. And as a result I am lot happier.

TGal: I totally agree with your point. I believe a lot of women remain in "chasing butterfly" mode and therefore end up frustrated and looking for attention outside of their marriages. Although I will add that men appear to have some of the same chasing butterflies issues as well, from what I can tell.

 

[MonkeyPie]

So you realize you're in love with someone else. Wouldn't the family suffer as much if both stayed in a marriage where their hearts simply weren't in it?

For the record, I'd say you don't take the leap...not without a lot of counseling and trying to fall back in love with your spouse. It sounds like the couple in this article ended their marriages way too fast.

I think it's hard to judge times when you say they ended it too fast - who knows how long it actually took? The man stayed married for 6 more months out of guilt and grief because he knew it was wrong, and he tried, but it failed. So 6 months is too quick? It's hard to judge what is enough time when it isn't you.

But I agree with the first part...if my husband didn't love me anymore, I would rather he left than drag the baby and I through the mud with him. You don't stay married just because it's what's "right", you stay married for love and happiness. If both of those things are gone then what's the point?

 

[Haven]

I actually don't really know whether or not I'm appalled by the choices these people made. It's obvious that we don't *really* know enough of their story to make any judgment calls, and as Italia said, these things are so subjective, and they depend on so many circumstances.

I'll share a very personal situation here to illustrate:

My parents were married for 30 years. They started dating when they were 12, my dad broke up with my mom right before his bar mitzvah, and as the old story goes: my mom, at age 13, tore up all his love letters, threw them into Lake Michigan, and swore that she would get back at him. And she did--she married him. (This story was funnier once upon a time.)

At the very beginning of their marriage, they became *best* friends with another couple, we'll call them Harvey and Shaina. All four of them became very close friends, and over the years my mom became closer to Harvey, and my dad became closer to Shaina, but all four remained very tight. There was never anything funny about these friendships--no hanky panky, no weirdness.

Our families were so close that we even lived together at times, I've always called their two daughters my sisters, which they are, and I've always called Harvey and Shaina "mom" and "dad". The four of us girls always joked that we'll be the only brides with parents who *aren't* divorced to have two fathers and two mothers walk us down the aisle, and that was exactly what we expected to happen.

Over the years, both marriages started to develop some issues. Both men were not good providers, both women were overly critical, yadda yadda yadda. Around 2002, both couples were in therapy, and both marriages were extremely rocky. My father had cheated, Harvey and Shaina had there own big issues. No funny stuff between the four of them, though. They remained best friends and nothing more.

In 2004, Harvey was diagnosed with multiple myeloma. Total devastation. (Ugh, now I'm crying.) It was awful. He withered away right before our eyes. In the summer of 2007, Harvey died in a hospital bed surrounded by Shaina, his two biological daughters, my parents, and my sister. (I wasn't there because I was teaching summer school. A regret that cuts deep.)

While Harvey was sick, my father filled in for all of the things Shaina and the girls needed--he fixed things around the house, took the girls' cars in for emissions tests with them, those sorts of things. (Our two families grew up one street apart, by the way. They bought houses as close together as they could, on purpose.)

In 2008, my father leaves my mother. My mother, using means I won't expose here, discovers that my father and Shaina are engaged in a love affair.

Surprisingly, I wasn't mad at them. Did I hurt for my mother? Yes. Was I hurt that Shaina, with whom I've always been extremely close, lied to me about things along the way to cover this up? Yes. But honestly, I wasn't shocked or disgusted or infuriated. I sort of understood it. My parents' marriage had not been good for years, neither of them were happy, and it just wasn't a shock that love would develop between Shaina and my father.

Am I completely okay with it? No. It's weird. And they aren't openly together, anyway, they hid it for a long time and now claim to be just friends again. But the bottom line is I just want them all to be happy. My parents are happier apart than they were together, and I knew that would be the case long before they divorced.

I'm having a difficult time articulating my reaction and feelings about this bizarre situation, but they aren't as condemning or shocked as the reactions and feelings people shared in response to the NYTimes article. Relationships and people are complicated. There is always so much going on that we just don't know. I've lived through a very real, and very strange, example of how love can change and die and grow in unexpected places. And guess what? As the child, I survived, and so have my sisters. The youngest is still in college, and she's thriving just the same.

Ooh boy, I see I've just used your thread as a venue for my cathartic story TGal, sorry! When I started typing I thought I could share this story with more concision, but I'm having a hard time cutting any more out.

Well--there you have it. I think it's complicated. And I think if two people are going to be unhappy together, they shouldn't be together. Will the new relationship work out? Who knows. But I'm not ready to condemn people for seeking out their own happiness.*

*All of that being said, if this happened to me, I'd be mad as hell and extremely likely to dismember my husband and the sk*nk who broke up my marriage.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I think if my husband came to me distraught and said "I'm in love with someone else, but I still want to make our marriage work because I owe it to you" I'd probably just tell him to go chase that other person. I wouldn't want to be in a marriage where I wasn't number one in his heart. Right now there isn't a cell in my brain that isn't absolutely 100% certain that my hubby loves me more than anyone else in the world. Were that to change..well...I don't know if I would want to stay married to him.

 

[atroop711]

I know this happens...I don't agree with it BUT you don't publicize it in the NYT. They also had the nerve to say that they would have never
shared their story if they knew that it would stir things up. COME ON they can't be that dense to not know this wouldn't sit well with readers OR maybe they are that dense

 

[rosetta]

I'm not sure when, as a society, we evolved to feel an entitlement to chase our own happiness at the expense of all others.

Sometimes you just can't have what you want. Period.

There's no such thing as soulmates. Just people you connect with and believe me, there's more than one of that category.

I don't believe you can live a happy life having left a trail of destruction in your wake. It's different if you have the blessing of those immediately involved.

I hope I can stay true to my wedding vows. Only time will truly tell.

 

[Haven]

I know this happens...I don't agree with it BUT you don't publicize it in the NYT. They also had the nerve to say that they would have never
shared their story if they knew that it would stir things up. COME ON they can't be that dense to not know this wouldn't sit well with readers OR maybe they are that dense

I definitely agree with this. The decision to feature the article was a poor choice on the part of the NYTimes, as well. I'm a big fan, and I love my Sunday paper, but what a bad decision.
I'm surprised the couple claims they didn't know it would stir things up--hello!?

 

[decodelighted]

I read that whole shebang .... they are two textbook Narcissists. Can't wait til it all explodes a few years from now. Hopefully on the front page of the NYTimes. Enablers.

 

[decodelighted]

So you realize you're in love with someone else. Wouldn't the family suffer as much if both stayed in a marriage where their hearts simply weren't in it?

For the record, I'd say you don't take the leap...not without a lot of counseling and trying to fall back in love with your spouse. It sounds like the couple in this article ended their marriages way too fast.

I think it's hard to judge times when you say they ended it too fast - who knows how long it actually took? The man stayed married for 6 more months out of guilt and grief because he knew it was wrong, and he tried, but it failed. So 6 months is too quick? It's hard to judge what is enough time when it isn't you.

OMG! SIX WHOLE MONTHS! Two whole SEASONS!!! I mean, this MARRIED man who pledged to be with his wife FOREVER actually suffered through twenty four whole long WEEKS of "suffering".

I'd be interested to see how these same folks would endure CANCER or some REAL SUFFERING. Not just some self-indulged drama of their own making that's sure to drag their existing spouses and kids down into the dirt with them. Sometimes I hate New York.

 

[somethingshiny]

I actually knew a woman who had this type of situation. She and her husband and another friend and her husband would frequently vacation together. They were all best friends. Well, the one wife and the other's husband ended up falling in love. They both had been married for at least several years and both had teenage children. They never married but were together for many years until she died. I always thought it was very strange to allow yourself to fall in love with a taken person, especially your best friend's SO. Yes, I do believe you allow yourself to fall in love. A person who has respect for others should have limited contact when they realized feelings were developing.

As far as the six month marriage, . Grow up.

 

[Lauren8211]

So you realize you're in love with someone else. Wouldn't the family suffer as much if both stayed in a marriage where their hearts simply weren't in it?

For the record, I'd say you don't take the leap...not without a lot of counseling and trying to fall back in love with your spouse. It sounds like the couple in this article ended their marriages way too fast.

I think it's hard to judge times when you say they ended it too fast - who knows how long it actually took? The man stayed married for 6 more months out of guilt and grief because he knew it was wrong, and he tried, but it failed. So 6 months is too quick? It's hard to judge what is enough time when it isn't you.

OMG! SIX WHOLE MONTHS! Two whole SEASONS!!! I mean, this MARRIED man who pledged to be with his wife FOREVER actually suffered through twenty four whole long WEEKS of "suffering".

I'd be interested to see how these same folks would endure CANCER or some REAL SUFFERING. Not just some self-indulged drama of their own making that's sure to drag their existing spouses and kids down into the dirt with them. Sometimes I hate New York.

Clearly its not hard for Deco to judge, MP!

 

[TravelingGal]

So you realize you're in love with someone else. Wouldn't the family suffer as much if both stayed in a marriage where their hearts simply weren't in it?

For the record, I'd say you don't take the leap...not without a lot of counseling and trying to fall back in love with your spouse. It sounds like the couple in this article ended their marriages way too fast.

I think it's hard to judge times when you say they ended it too fast - who knows how long it actually took? The man stayed married for 6 more months out of guilt and grief because he knew it was wrong, and he tried, but it failed. So 6 months is too quick? It's hard to judge what is enough time when it isn't you.

OMG! SIX WHOLE MONTHS! Two whole SEASONS!!! I mean, this MARRIED man who pledged to be with his wife FOREVER actually suffered through twenty four whole long WEEKS of "suffering".

I'd be interested to see how these same folks would endure CANCER or some REAL SUFFERING. Not just some self-indulged drama of their own making that's sure to drag their existing spouses and kids down into the dirt with them. Sometimes I hate New York.

OK, I agree, albeit not quite as emphatically.

MP, I do agree that I don't know what went on in those six months. Perhaps it was their spouses who said, enough already...I can't take anymore. Six months must have seemed like an eternity of suffering for the wronged. But I can judge (because everyone does). It would be hard to put in the proper effort to work on a marriage in that kind of shape in 6 months.

Haven, thanks for sharing your story. Life can sometimes be complicated indeed.

 

[MonkeyPie]

So you realize you're in love with someone else. Wouldn't the family suffer as much if both stayed in a marriage where their hearts simply weren't in it?

For the record, I'd say you don't take the leap...not without a lot of counseling and trying to fall back in love with your spouse. It sounds like the couple in this article ended their marriages way too fast.

I think it's hard to judge times when you say they ended it too fast - who knows how long it actually took? The man stayed married for 6 more months out of guilt and grief because he knew it was wrong, and he tried, but it failed. So 6 months is too quick? It's hard to judge what is enough time when it isn't you.

OMG! SIX WHOLE MONTHS! Two whole SEASONS!!! I mean, this MARRIED man who pledged to be with his wife FOREVER actually suffered through twenty four whole long WEEKS of "suffering".

I'd be interested to see how these same folks would endure CANCER or some REAL SUFFERING. Not just some self-indulged drama of their own making that's sure to drag their existing spouses and kids down into the dirt with them. Sometimes I hate New York.

Clearly its not hard for Deco to judge, MP!

LOL, that's a whole heck of a lot of rolling eyes.

I don't know. Yes, I agree it's easy to judge someone you think is wrong whether you know them or not, but considering how little info we were "given" in the article, I really can't. I think it was a bad choice all around, but I don't know what truly happened so I won't be calling them names or stooping in any way.

 

[KittyGolightly]

It sounds like these two people are perfect for each other.

 

[Imdanny]

What do I think? I think it's a horrible idea. Marry and if you possibly can, stay married. It's "until death do us part, for richer or poorer" etc. It's marriage. It's not "I like your boyfriend and I'm going to slip him a note in class and try to steal him away from you." WTF.

You wouldn't think a gay person would have a "traditional" view of marriage maybe, but there it is. It's not that I don't believe in divorce under certain circumstances, but "falling in love with someone else's spouse" just makes me want to scream, "Get control of yourself and grow up."

 

[zoebartlett]

I think that, as TGal said, duty and responsibility should take place first. If a couple is having problems, it might help to try counselling (together and possibly separately, depending on the circumstances).If nothing is working though, it might be best to end the marriage. In this story and in many others, I know that it gets really tricky when kids are involved. I also know that it can't be good to witness mom and dad constantly fighting and not modeling love and affection and working through difficult times together.

I know someone who had an affair with someone he worked with, and he left his wife and young children (one of which was a baby) for the other woman. It was horrible that that happened, and everyone suffered in some way. The dad was not a good role model, and ever since this happened (years ago now), he and his children have had a fairly distant relationship. This man and the "other woman" are still together. They destroyed a marriage and a family, and that was horrible. Some might say that they were in wrong relationships to begin with or that the dad was in a "right for now" type of relationship until he became involved with this other woman. They'd probably say they are soul mates.