FAM thread

[mia1181]

Yay for possible ovulation! I know I was soooo excited when it finally happened!

Oh have you not internalized the "rules" yet?

I keep meaning to photocopy a cheat sheet out of the book, but mine and DH''s schedules have been so hectic, DTD hasn''t been happening much. We just waited until my temps were up for a few consecutive days. But there''s also the peak day rule which says you are safe the night of the 4th day after your peak cervical fluid. If you look higher on the thread at my chart there is a peak day count. I think we are going to trust my temps though because I had such a clear temp shift. I am on CD11 today and so far my temps have been pretty steady again.

 

[Elmorton]

Okay...I think I've attached my chart.

The part where I'm getting confused is where fertility friend drew the vertical line.

When I was looking at sample TTA charts in the book, it seemed like the vertical line was drawn to reflect when it was OK to be barrier free - so it was drawn after the last dry day and after ovulation. So on my chart, I'd do a line between day 11/12. Then 12, 13, 14, 15 were my most fertile days. Fertility friend said that day 13 was my pk day, but I'm not sure if that seems right...when I was looking at the book, I thought I saw charts that had PK on last day of possible fertile fluid, so the last creamy? Is that right? I know the eggwhite is most fertile, but is PK referring to your most fertile fluid or your last day with fertile-quality fluid or the day you likely ovulate? On my paper chart, I had day 14 as my PK (day 15 was a weird day to call - I was confused as to whether it was creamy or sticky) and then counted 1 2 3 4 to day 18, which was also the 3rd day after my temperature shift. So on my paper chart, I put my other vertical line in between day 17 and 18 to show "all clear."

But why did fertility friend make the line at the 13th? Is it because the line is different if you're TTC rather than TTA?

 

[Elmorton]

Okay...I may have just answered my own ? after staring at this.

I had to look up DPO because I didn't know what that meant, and I found Date Past Ovulation. Duh - hence the numbers starting at 1 on day 16 (which I had accurately recorded on the paper version).

So the day before the temp spike is ovulation...therefore, the red line is showing the cut-off between pre-O temps and post-O temps. But in terms of my PK day, that's actually 15...right? So I'm infertile from day 19 on instead of what I'd previously thought, which was day 18.

??

 

[mia1181]

Yep Elmorton! That line is your crosshairs! It just shows when you have ovulated. The FF software doesn''t draw lines for when your peak/low fertility periods are. I think it is because it is really only supposed to be used for TTC. Ovusoft does draw those lines for you and they calculate that based on the five day rule (I think?) and the peak day rule. I think there may be a nother rule in there but I don''t have my book with me. Your peak day is the last day of fertile CF, so you count 5 days after that.

As for me-----

UGH!!!!! I went home for a visit (across the country). I''m totally supposed to ovulate soon (or maybe already) but waking up early for the airport, then the change in time zones, added with the fact that I am sick yet again during my fertile phase! I have had watery CF (leaking!) the past few days so I think ovulation should be soon. But now I don''t think I can trust my temps! I don''t even know if my thermometer might be broken because I left it out in the car and below freezing temps all day Saturday!

So my temps were consistently 97.3-97.4 so far this cycle. Saturday I woke up an hour early for the airport and when I told the software my temp reading was at 5am instead of 6, it adjusted my 97.4degree temp to 97.6 and moved my coverline! I don''t know, even though it was early I think 97.4 might have been accurate... Then I was sick the next day, so I woke up with a 99.4 temp! This morning my temp was 97.76 which should be above my coverline. But I have no idea what to trust! There are just so many screwed up variables! I am so confused. I just want to go home! I think we''ll be using condoms until I get AF!

 

[Elmorton]

Oh, Mia - you DO have a ton of variables throwing you off. I hope you're feeling better, too!!

I really don't like how the software just adjusts, either - it seems like it's just easier to use the "rule of thumb" rule and accept your temp as an outlier instead of trying to adjust it. Early in my cycle, DH woke me up at 7 and my temp was a lot higher than it had been, so he told me to go back asleep and we temped two hours later instead. It was over the holiday break and we'd been awake really late the night before. With the extra two hours, I changed the same .2 that you did (or were adjusted, I suppose) - my temp had been 97.5 and it only dropped to 97.3. That said, most of my temps were 96.6-9, so that was still an outlier. I think if I were you, I'd just record your same temp as if it were at the right time. If a temp taken when you're changing zones, traveling (stress), etc changes your coverline, that doesn't seem right.

Were you following the rules for time zone changes (I'm assuming you did change zones?) - I skimmed over that part in the book because I rarely travel out of my time zone, but I think there were a bunch of hangups there. Apparently, for a lot of people, travel can delay ovulation...

Hopefully everything will go back to normal as you return to your normal schedule!!

 

[mayachel]

I found an amazing website today...beautifulcervix.com

The author talks about a woman''s cycle, and has photographed her changing cervix over the course of a month, along with detailed noted changes.

 

[Elmorton]

Wow, definitely an educational site.

 

[Elmorton]

Waaaah! So I just finished with my first charting cycle and it turns out that apparently I have a slightly short luteal phase. While I''m totally jazzed to know how that goes, I''m also just a little ticked, too! I was hoping I''d be one of those people in the book with the 40 day cycle, haha.

Anybody else surprised by newfound info in their first charting cycle?

 

[ladyciel]

Hmm, I''m not sure I was surprised by anything other than being almost textbook normal the first cycle off the pill. We''ll see if the same happens this month, but other than my temp being slow to drop my first chart is pretty darn close to what''s in the TCOYF book. We''ll give it a couple more months before trusting it for any sort of BC (since we''re TTA), but I rather hope it stays this clear. As for luteal phase, I''m dead average at 14 days.

 

[Elmorton]

ladyc, nice chart! I think I was really surprised for mine to look (mostly) like the charts in the book, too. I was absolutely convinced that it wouldn''t work for me - but so far, so good.

 

[mia1181]

Date: 1/26/2009 1:25:59 PM
Author: Elmorton
Waaaah! So I just finished with my first charting cycle and it turns out that apparently I have a slightly short luteal phase. While I''m totally jazzed to know how that goes, I''m also just a little ticked, too! I was hoping I''d be one of those people in the book with the 40 day cycle, haha.

Anybody else surprised by newfound info in their first charting cycle?

Um Textbook-looking chart? Check! and short luteal phase? Check! I am waaaaah-ing too!

I''ll bet yours isn''t as short as mine, though... 8-9 days!

I think I have a luteal phase defect! Well I know it''s only my 2nd chart off BC and short LP''s are totally normally post-BC! But I thought mine would at least be a little longer this cycle. I started spotting today. I''ll definitely have my period tomorrow which will be an eight day LP! Although I didn''t record my temp for CD19 so I actually may have ovulated on CD18, so maybe my LP was 9 days. Last cycle it was 9 days, and I really thought it would be longer this time. Well hopefully it will stretch with time.

 

[mia1181]

wow Ladyciel nice chart! Very textbook!

 

[musey]

Reviving this thread because my charts are a bit interesting...

The first month (I'd gone off BCP about 6ish days before the chart begins) I didn't get my thermometer until CD22, so all I was charting was CM, basically. Still, it looked like a pretty clear chart with just CM alone.

 

[musey]

Second month I was getting used to the temping, and had a REALLY weird chart. But beyond the strange temps, my CM wasn''t nearly as clear as month 1.

 

[musey]

Then my third month looked really clear and great, at least comparatively so. O dip and CM lined up, the whole shebang.

 

[musey]

So here's what I'm finding interesting... I'm now on my fourth month charting, and it's looking weird and unclear the way the second month did. So I have one clear O month, one weird and unclear, next clear O, next unclear again.

Is it just me, or does this sound like possibly a lazy ovary?

Not that I'd go ahead and diagnose myself, just something interesting. Also, if that ended up being the case, I'd be very happy to have discovered it through charting long before TTC.


Side note question: is there somewhere that really clearly lays out your pregnancy risk by cycle days (in relation to days before ovulation of course, not just general CDs)? I think I'm extra paranoid. After being on BCP so long (nearly 5 years) I feel like I'm gonna get PG from just about anything. I would like some source to tell me to just calm down

 

[April20]

Date: 3/3/2009 2:30:49 AM
Author: musey
So here''s what I''m finding interesting... I''m now on my fourth month charting, and it''s looking weird and unclear the way the second month did. So I have one clear O month, one weird and unclear, next clear O, next unclear again.

Is it just me, or does this sound like possibly a lazy ovary?

Not that I''d go ahead and diagnose myself, just something interesting. Also, if that ended up being the case, I''d be very happy to have discovered it through charting long before TTC.


Side note question: is there somewhere that really clearly lays out your pregnancy risk by cycle days (in relation to days before ovulation of course, not just general CDs)? I think I''m extra paranoid. After being on BCP so long (nearly 5 years) I feel like I''m gonna get PG from just about anything. I would like some source to tell me to just calm down

I''ve heard it can take up to six cycles for things to level themselves back out. BCP can do crazy stuff!!!!

I have seen some data that lists your risks before and after ovulation. I think someone has it listed in the TTC thread, but I''m not sure what page it is on. Maybe someone else will remember and link it over here. I want to say that it doesn''t get above 26% or someting on any given day. Don''t quote me on that...

I''m on CD140, first cycle post BC. I have an appt on 3/25 to get this junk ended. Your experience sounds ever so much better to me than what I have, lazy ovary fears or not!

 

[musey]

Yeah, I'm not putting much stock in my charts yet... I know that things aren't normal yet, it's just the month on/month off pattern that I'm thinking is interesting. I wonder if one of my ovaries kicked back in just fine, but the other's a little slow on the uptake... or if maybe one's always had an issue. Only time will tell I guess, but it's interesting to look at what my body's up to in the meantime!

 

[Elmorton]

Musey, my first cycle was textbook. During my second month, I had my annual exam, so I took both charts to the doc. She said that I can''t really tell anything until 6-8 months (I hadn''t o''d yet and I was really worried, since my CM indicated that I should have o''d - I was totally convinced that it was a lazy ovary). My first cycle was 27 days and my second was 34. After the month was over, I looked at my chart and realized that about 4 days into thicker CM, I had a really, really stressful day at work. and I think my stress delayed ovulation. Anyway, regardless of cause, the second month''s chart is a hot mess. There are "outliers" everywhere, I had more of a climb instead of a spike when I finally did ovulate, and then my leutal phase was a lot shorter than it had been in the first month. I guess what I''m saying is that I''m a couple cycles behind where you are - and I''m really curious to see how the next two months go. My hunch is that cycle 2 was so screwy because of my stress, but if it''s a lazy ovary, I hope to see a clear pattern emerge.

And, on a completely different note because I forgot to post earlier - when I had my annual, I had a lot of ?s for my OBGYN. First, it was a little weird because she saw my charts and said "So, you''re trying to get pregnant!" and I said "Um...noo....". The first question that I asked was about cervix position, and she said that feeling the cervix position/hardness is not good to use as a fertility sign because it''s extremely difficult to feel a difference throughout your cycle, and you''re more likely to mis-record and mis-interpret than your are to be able to learn from it. We also had a pretty lengthy discussion about why I wanted to do FAM/how well it worked/didn''t work for TTA - basically, the doc said that she wasn''t crazy about temping because it''s so easy for your temp to be off, and cervical fluid can be misleading too (for example, she said I still had fertile quality CM near my cervix, but I''d been recording dry for two days). That info made me really question staying on FAM, so we talked about other possible methods and came to the conclusion (again) that FAM is best for me (and my partner) right now.

So, just curious - have other people discussed FAM with their doctors? What was your doctor''s take on using FAM for TTA?

 

[musey]

I haven''t yet, but I''ll have to ask next time I go in. I don''t really use it as a BC method though, quite honestly. It''s just something that sounded interesting to try.

 

[mia1181]

Elmorton good question:

I honestly think Dr.''s are not crazy about FAM because there is so much room for human error. The way they see it, BC pills or even condoms are much more idiot proof so of course they''d recommend them first. My doctor was fine with my decision to use FAM. I was in recently for something and while I was there I asked which acne medication I could still use since there is a slight risk I could accidentally get pregnant. She of course asked if I was TTC and when I said no, but if it were to happen we''d be okay with it. She muttered some sort of compliment like "oh that''s better anyway" as she looked up the drug information and that was about it.

A couple of weeks ago I had a UTI and had to see a different Dr. I wanted to discuss UTI''s since I get them all the time. The first thing she asked was if there was a chance I could be pregnant. I answered that there is always a chance because of FAM. She looked at me like I was alien and said "oh the rythm method?" I was like "uh, no." She prescribed me an antibiotic that is safe for pregnancy and then berated me for not telling her from the start that I could be pregnant. She was like "not every doctor is going to ask you so you have to tell us!" Uh, of course I would have mentioned it the moment she mentioned prescribing something, but she hadn''t said she was going to do that yet! Ugh! I also forgot to tell her that we use condoms during my fertile period! Not that it would have made a difference but I was kicking myself for not mentioning it.

But I do believe in FAM. It makes sense to me and I do believe it is fairly accurate. How else can anyone explain that the day my temp drops below the coverline, I get my period? My charts look just like the book. I have been sick each cycle and that has screwed up my temps, but there is still a very clear pattern. This cycle I didn''t let my dog sleep with me for a while so my temps were lower. Then I let him sleep with me and I had a spike, the next day no dog, and it went back down. So there are factors that can affect your temps, but I still see the pattern. I don''t think this is true for everyone, but it seems to work for me.

I do agree with the Dr. about cervical position not being accurate. The book says you can''t rely on it alone and that might be what she means. I really have a hard time telling the subtle differences so I don''t really trust my interpretation. Also, are you checking CM at the cervix? That''s what I do and I do think it is a 1-1.5 days behind what comes out of me sometimes. Anyway, yep I still feel like FAM is best for DH and I too!

Musey- Have you posted your question on the FF or Ovusoft site? I wonder if that is what a lazy ovary looks like. Although I think I read that both ovaries gear up to ovulate and whichever is ready first ovulate, so maybe it really isn''t that they take turns ovulating? I don''t know that''s from my memory which isn''t so great. Even so it is possible every other month was the "lazy" ovary. It is interesting though, I hope it''s nothing.

Oh yeah, and I should mention (in case you''ve seen it on the TTC thread), I am in the middle of a pregnancy scare,

which is probably all in my head (maybe a bit of wishful thinking?)! We used the "pull out" method on a fertile day. DH did a good job at it and I am pretty confident in his abilities, but my I am on 10DPO and my longest LP was only 9 DPO. So technically I am "late." However I think 9 days is too short of a LP, and my temps do seem to be going down so I think it is just time for my body to have a longer LP. Not good timing for a pregnancy, because dh was laid off recently (well given an end-date anyway), but I think we''re fine.

 

[musey]

Date: 3/4/2009 11:45:02 PM
Author: mia1181
Musey- Have you posted your question on the FF or Ovusoft site? I wonder if that is what a lazy ovary looks like. Although I think I read that both ovaries gear up to ovulate and whichever is ready first ovulate, so maybe it really isn''t that they take turns ovulating? I don''t know that''s from my memory which isn''t so great. Even so it is possible every other month was the ''lazy'' ovary. It is interesting though, I hope it''s nothing.

There are much worse things in life, so if I have a lazy ovary I won''t be too bothered by it.

I haven''t posted either place, I don''t pay for FF (just use the free membership) and haven''t really looked at ovusoft. Honestly, I don''t care very much. If we were TTC and having no luck, then I''d worry. As for now, charting and the stuff that goes with it is more a passive curiosity than anything else!

 

[April20]

For what it''s worth, Ovusoft has forums for cycling/charting help and "trying to avoid". I''ve had crazy questions that I''m simply curious about and have asked them in the charting forum and they have been so helpful.

 

[musey]

That''s good! It''s always nice to find a welcoming and informative community

 

[April20]

I would just like to announce that after 152 extremely long days, my first cycle post BC has FINALLY ended.

I am not the most patient person, but had decided to let things take their course for a while before I called the doctor for drugs to end the cycle. I finally got fed up about 3 weeks ago and called to make an appointment, which isn''t until the 25th. I''m keeping the appointment as I''m due for one anyway, but am really glad I don''t have to get the drugs!

For giggles.... I''m attaching my ridiculous chart.