First diamond purchase for an engagement ring

[mayaINaU]

Have not been using water to clean it but the leather cloth that came with the diamond, "polishing" the diamond with that cloth all over on each facet.

I ll give a try with water and some dish soap maybe? What do you use to wash yours?

How could i further evaluate the stone for the transparency issues?

Unfortunately, as others have said, it’s hard to tell anything from the videos. Photos and videos of stones are notoriously hard to get right, so I would go by what your eyes see. You will not be able to capture it accurately in a photo or video. Additionally, whether on your hand, in your fingers, or on the cloth, the stone will not be seen at its best. You will be smudging it and blocking light. It will also be hard for you to move it around to different lighting conditions because you’ll be afraid of dropping it. I would suggest that you get one of those temporary stone holders to place the diamond in. Then you can put it on one of your fingers and move it around and get a much better sense of how it will look when it’s set. You will also be able to clean it with dish soap and warm water and then pick it up with the ring holder so you don’t get any smudges on it by touching it with your fingers. THEN move your hand around in different lighting environments.

 

[Karl_K]

@Karl_K, maybe you can help here.
Why is focussed lighting better for fire? Why does diffuse lighting not lead to fire but instead brilliance?

Physics is the only answer that fits here.
A diamond can be simplified as a series of interacting mirrors.
Simplify that to a single small mirror
Take a compact mirror and view it like a diamond and you will see little fire but will show you why there is a difference based on lighting.

When a diamond is not acting as expected the first thing to do is clean it.
Leather has oils in it and diamonds are oil magnets, the idea makes me cringe.
Start with dawn and warm water.

 

[lovedogs]

I csnt get the videos to work and the pics aren't helpful. Can you upload to YouTube or something?

 

[Karl_K]

Was there a vendor video?
Grading report?
If so quote my post and link it and I will take a look.
This thread is a mess to try and find anything.

 

[freddyboston]

Was there a vendor video?
Grading report?
If so quote my post and link it and I will take a look.
This thread is a mess to try and find anything.

https://www.77diamonds.com/diamonds/view.aspx?id=RBPUIFSDBZAQZUH

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=6234202536&locale=en_US

 

[Karl_K]

https://www.77diamonds.com/diamonds/view.aspx?id=RBPUIFSDBZAQZUH

https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=6234202536&locale=en_US

Lower girdle/halve percentage is too low for that combo so there is some minor under table leakage between the arrows.
Its not a lot and in that sized stone not hugely visible but it is a technical downgrade.

Material looks fine.

 

[0515vision]

Lower girdle/halve percentage is too low for that combo so there is some minor under table leakage between the arrows.
Its not a lot and in that sized stone not hugely visible but it is a technical downgrade.

Material looks fine.

@Karl_K, we were trying to maximize for fire. With that in mind is the lower percentage still an issue or is this a case of “well if you want A then you have to sacrifice a little B?” Also, we’re dealing with a European market and don’t have access to US stones.

In this combo, what percentage would we want? Is the lacking lower percentage bc of the 16 crown height?


@Vladovici, I’m sorry that you’re disappointed in this one since I’m pretty sure this was my suggestion. Admittedly, I don’t know about desired lower percentage numbers.

What happened to the F? Did you return that one?

 

[Karl_K]

@Karl_K, we were trying to maximize for fire. With that in mind is the lower percentage still an issue or is this a case of “well if you want A then you have to sacrifice a little B?” Also, we’re dealing with a European market and don’t have access to US stones.

In this combo, what percentage would we want? Is the lacking lower percentage bc of the 16 crown height?


@Vladovici, I’m sorry that you’re disappointed in this one since I’m pretty sure this was my suggestion. Admittedly, I don’t know about desired lower percentage numbers.

What happened to the F? Did you return that one?

Its around 74% ,77% would clean up the slight leakage but that means smaller arrows.
If targeting more fire off the mains(big arrows) and less obstruction from the mains its not a bad trade off.
Basically the higher the crown angle the lower the pavilion angle needed. Combos on the edge can be improved or made worse by the lower girdle angle.
Unless there is twist or extreme angles its always the lowers that leak not the mains.
Adjusting the lowers angle by changing the lgf% can in some combos move them out of leaking.

Its not a bad stone but if the owner does not love it and can return it then it might be the best thing to do.

 

[Vladovici]

If you don’t like the diamond, by all means return it. I will say though that face up you will not be able to tell that much of a difference in color. What is it about the color that you don’t care for?
Use Dawn dishwashing liquid with warm water. You can use a soft toothbrush to clean the underneath. Rinse very well in warm water and dry with a paper towel. The spots look like dust or water spots. If they are not plotted on the diagram, then they are superficial and not part of the diamond.
If the selecting and buying of this diamond causes you this much aggravation, maybe you and your wife to be would be happier with plain bands or a five stone diamond band. You have over analyzed every part of the process and I honestly wouldn’t know what direction to suggest next to you in terms of starting over.

I'll give a try to wash it with soap and see if that spots disappear.
There is no diagram of the defects on the GIA report.

Unfortunately, as others have said, it’s hard to tell anything from the videos. Photos and videos of stones are notoriously hard to get right, so I would go by what your eyes see. You will not be able to capture it accurately in a photo or video. Additionally, whether on your hand, in your fingers, or on the cloth, the stone will not be seen at its best. You will be smudging it and blocking light. It will also be hard for you to move it around to different lighting conditions because you’ll be afraid of dropping it. I would suggest that you get one of those temporary stone holders to place the diamond in. Then you can put it on one of your fingers and move it around and get a much better sense of how it will look when it’s set. You will also be able to clean it with dish soap and warm water and then pick it up with the ring holder so you don’t get any smudges on it by touching it with your fingers. THEN move your hand around in different lighting environments.

Im going to try and purchase a dummy ring like this before i'll get a setting.
Ive tried yesterday to take videos and pictures until my eyes hurt, as you may have noticed...im not giving up easy so i'll keep on trying until i get good shots. eventually i'll find the technique.

I csnt get the videos to work and the pics aren't helpful. Can you upload to YouTube or something?

will do soon.

Its around 74% ,77% would clean up the slight leakage but that means smaller arrows.
If targeting more fire off the mains(big arrows) and less obstruction from the mains its not a bad trade off.
Basically the higher the crown angle the lower the pavilion angle needed. Combos on the edge can be improved or made worse by the lower girdle angle.
Unless there is twist or extreme angles its always the lowers that leak not the mains.
Adjusting the lowers angle by changing the lgf% can in some combos move them out of leaking.

Its not a bad stone but if the owner does not love it and can return it then it might be the best thing to do.

thanks so much for all your input. ive seen on PS diamond proportion page that 40.8 - 35% requires an 80% LGF but this is the best we could find so far, this diamond has been liked by many PSers.
Given how much I have overanalyzed everything...i was "afraid" to ask if the 75% lgf could be an issue in this diamond given the info from here.

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

I've thought that using that leather cloth and insisting with that over the facets would be enough to consider it well cleaned. I'll surely wash it this time with soap.

 

[Vladovici]

@Karl_K, we were trying to maximize for fire. With that in mind is the lower percentage still an issue or is this a case of “well if you want A then you have to sacrifice a little B?” Also, we’re dealing with a European market and don’t have access to US stones.

In this combo, what percentage would we want? Is the lacking lower percentage bc of the 16 crown height?


@Vladovici, I’m sorry that you’re disappointed in this one since I’m pretty sure this was my suggestion. Admittedly, I don’t know about desired lower percentage numbers.

What happened to the F? Did you return that one

I have canceled the F before it got to me, given the extra budget i said to go for a bigger size so I have bought the 0.55 instead of the 0.46.
As someone said in here, if I have now a higher budget I should target the biggest stone I can get now, there's plenty of time to buy other jewelry later on.

Absolutely do not be sorry, youve provided so much help, you ve been great and I highly appreciate you! there is absolutely nothing to be sorry about, i can't tank you enough for the help!

What bugs me is that it has an AGS Ideal 0, how can it have leakages?
Another thing that makes me wonder - I have seen the diamond in home lightning / office lightning / bright flashes. All diamonds previously seen have been seen in jewelry lightning which is obviously a lot better.

i have seen a diamond I have really loved, also my gf liked it, a 0.5 actually but the price for the whole setting was around 5k euros. so overpriced but thats how the prices go around here, hence why I do all this.
considering all these, getting a 0.55 that also looks very beautiful seems good.
I cant get a WF, nor JP, nor BG as they do not deliver. if I could, I would have reached to them.

 

[0515vision]

Thanks for your kind words.

As for AGS, you’re mixing up judging parameters. AGS 0 is very broad as compared to an expert like @Karl_K noting the length of the lowers. It’s like thinking all Mercedes will be perfect, but an expert knows that one model from a specific year will run better than others.

Also he said the leakage was very slight. And given your desire for fire, it wasn’t a necessarily a bad thing. If you want a perfect stone, you have to pay the price for a branded cut instead of rely on certificates.

Like others, I wonder if the color you see in this G is actually due to the surroundings. Have you taken it outside? Are you setting it in yellow or white gold?

 

[Vladovici]

Well, If we are to look for prices of WF ACA, 0.55-0.57 are within the same price range.
It is just that they do not ship to my country, even talked this over with WF trying to figure out a way (shipping insurance being the cause).

I've read many posts from Karl_K, happy to have his input

White gold setting.
Going first for 14k setting, without any rhodium plating. If it is not white enough for us, we'll have it plated to be whiter.
Ive found a really nice jeweler, tens of years of experience and a really nice attitude, character. He'll even let me stand beside him when he mounts the diamond as i'm very curious of the process.

Clarification about the color: the color seen in the pictures are a reflection of my phone, thats the color of my phone. It is not the pictures that make me say that I want them to be more white, just looking at it from sides.

 

[mayaINaU]

Well, If we are to look for prices of WF ACA, 0.55-0.57 are within the same price range.
It is just that they do not ship to my country, even talked this over with WF trying to figure out a way (shipping insurance being the cause).

I've read many posts from Karl_K, happy to have his input

White gold setting.
Going first for 14k setting, without any rhodium plating. If it is not white enough for us, we'll have it plated to be whiter.
Ive found a really nice jeweler, tens of years of experience and a really nice attitude, character. He'll even let me stand beside him when he mounts the diamond as i'm very curious of the process.

Clarification about the color: the color seen in the pictures are a reflection of my phone, thats the color of my phone. It is not the pictures that make me say that I want them to be more white, just looking at it from sides.

You have put a lot of work into this search. The stone will not look like stones you saw in jewelry stores unless you bring it under those exact same special lights. Before you spiral too much, I would:
1. Get the stone holder
2. Put stone in holder, wash with liquid dish soap, dry with hair dryer on the lowest setting
3. Look at the stone, on your hand, in the holder, under jewelry store/grocery store/elevator lights
4. If it looks nice, stop worrying and enjoy your proposal and wedding. Continue your diamond education and buy your wife some diamond studs or an anniversary band in the future--maybe you'll be able to travel to Whiteflash/BG/or JannPaul at some point, or the shipping issues will have been resolved.
5. If you are really still not happy with the stone, you should return it. Before you start a new search, I would keep in mind that you are constrained by having to purchase based on the certificates and video, but no advanced images. That is not going to change. Second, I think you might be having "mind-clean" issues because of that constraint--you believe that there may be a better diamond out there, so you are seeing all the flaws, real or perceived, of your stone. I don't want you to disbelieve your own eyes, but just try to be objective about looking at your stone before you decide to return it and start over.

 

[Vladovici]

Im off in a vacation for a few days, ill post videos when i get back to my pc on Sunday.

Long story short - I went to the jeweler, when he first saw the stone he was quite concerned about its surface, he washed it, checked again - same concerns.

he went for a deep clean, including some gasoline and ultrasonic bath and the dirt washed off.
If I would have not been present there, I would not have believed it is the same stone.

much more fire now, even has a little fire in normal home lightning.


I just notice now that when I look at the stone from the pointed side (backside), it has some really really bold flashes. Is this normal?

 

[Vladovici]

a better picture of the arrows and below a picture of what I meant by bold flashes viewed from the backside. in videos its more noticeable.

a question about the packaging, i have received it in some paper. I was expecting a way better packaging that some paper...how do you have them delivered to u? (3rd photo)

 

[mayaINaU]

Im off in a vacation for a few days, ill post videos when i get back to my pc on Sunday.

Long story short - I went to the jeweler, when he first saw the stone he was quite concerned about its surface, he washed it, checked again - same concerns.

he went for a deep clean, including some gasoline and ultrasonic bath and the dirt washed off.
If I would have not been present there, I would not have believed it is the same stone.

much more fire now, even has a little fire in normal home lightning.


I just notice now that when I look at the stone from the pointed side (backside), it has some really really bold flashes. Is this normal?

I’m really glad to hear of this outcome. Sometimes we forget that some vendors will ship without thoroughly cleaning the diamond.

 

[Vladovici]

found some more time to play with the diamond. jeweller is off for a few days so he'll have it mounted next week which gives me the chance to take a few more photos.
got myself a "poor folks IS", few pictures below.
ive seen on forum that 40.8/35 could have light leakages and with Karl's opinion above about the LGH 75% on GIA, can you tell from these photos below if there is any leakage?
Also manage to get few good shots of the hearts.
bought a diamond picker to get a better grip of them but its claws are not fixing the diamond well, hard to fix the diamond at the right angle, its always a little tilted.

 

[Vladovici]

1 interesting photo from the rear, haven't seen anywhere pictures taken from that angle that make the rear look like that, thought it was interesting and wanted to share
also 2 more photos, little tilted.

 

[diamonds27]

I would also look at a new site called www.yourdiamondguys.com. It’s an AI website that scans inclusions and weeds out the bad ones automatically so you only see top cut with nice imperfections. Also has TONS of information.