First purchase of a Mahenge - thoughts?

[Aoife]

I'm getting the feeling that what is making you hesitate about this stone is the fear of being "wrong." Is that correct?

 

[Autumn in New England]

Hey Aoife - In a way, yes. Because I usually have a greater knowledge of a gem before I make a purchase. I guess I just don't feel comfortable enough with this type of stone to be confident in this purchase. And it wasn't an inexpensive piece, though not bank breaking either. But I don't want to sound like a total novice, because I'm an avid collector and I own just about every gem book there is to read. So I do know my gems (spinel being a favorite)... but there isn't much reading material on this particular type of spinel and I am relying on our fellow PSers to lead me in the right direction. I think I've received a lot of good, honest opinions. Now I just have to make up my crazed neurotic mind.

ETA: If I kept the stone, I was thinking of a simple solitaire design like this...

 

[Aoife]

I understand.

So, if you are asking "Is this the very top color for a "Mahenge" spinel?" you already know the answer to that, because, as you noted, there is a slight orange secondary, which the best of the best do not have. It is, however, a very pretty stone. Is that enough to satisfy you? Or, is it enough to satisfy you while you continue the search for a "better" stone, whatever that means to you?

If only the very best color in a Mahenge is what you want, I would expect to pay more for it than you paid for this stone. I think this is a case where it all depends on what your priorities are. Relatively few of us on the CS forum seem to be able to afford the best of the best for all our gemstone purchases, and I'm certainly not one of that number, so I recognize your quandary.

Very pretty setting! (Ed. to add)

 

[Autumn in New England]

Yes, I agree. I may not own the very best of each stone in my collection, but I do try to buy the best within my means. I'm just wondering if I've done that here. Oh well... I'll figure it out eventually (I hope!). Thanks so much for taking the time to chat with me. I really appreciate it.

 

[VapidLapid]

Do you have this book in your library?


http://www.spinelbook.com/

 

[Autumn in New England]

No, I do not! Can I get it on Amazon or should I buy it straight from this site? I'll have to take a look tomorrow. Wow... the pieces on page 160 are spectacular. Now THAT is exceptional color... boy you know it when you see it. And pages 196 and 197 are just a feast for the eyes. Do you find this book very helpful? I am of course familiar with Richard Hughes, as I've read a many of his articles. Thanks, Vapid.

 

[Autumn in New England]

P.S. You should be a photographer if you're not already! I loved the photos of your gem with the water droplets on those beautiful flowers... enchanting.

 

[LD]

You've asked if it's top colour and I think you know it probably isn't now but you've also asked about price. To give you a comparison, I bought this from AJS about 18 months to 24 months ago. I paid a few hundred dollars (next to nothing) and it's 1.35ct. It's a nice Mahenge but isn't top colour. Also, the cut really doesn't help show it to its best. For what I paid I knew I wasn't going to get a top Mahenge and I haven't but I liked the cut. It is a very nice stone however. Please excuse the first photo as it has finger smudges all over it!

If YOU love the stone that's all that matters. Yes, you could probably get the same colour for much less but it may be more difficult to find the same cut so you have to weigh up what it is you want most.

By the way, the ring you've linked to (the solitaire) will be problematic for your stone because of the corners and the need to protect them. To keep those corners safe you'll need either wide claw prongs covering the tips OR V shaped corners OR put it in a bezel.

 

[VAgemguy]

I'm by no means a spinel aficionado, but here's one that Tan has available. Looks nice & glowy to me (assuming you like ovals), and is in the right price range. Maybe the more knowledgeable folks here can comment on its quality.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-33ctIncredible-Oval-Mahenge-Hot-Pink-Spinel-/250959120850?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6e5449d2

 

[Coco914]

I'm certainly no expert on Mahenge spinels, but I've seen enough of them and read up on them enough to know that everyone's vision of the perfect Mahenge is slightly different. Yes, there is the popular "top" color, which has been deemed most desirable... However, I think it's really about what YOU like most. Some truly love the pinkish red - others seem to prefer stones with a touch of purple/pinkish red, and still others love the orangy red. What is your vision of the perfect Mahenge?

To be honest, I really like the stone you've posted. The saturation might not be the strongest, but the flashes of color are simply stunning. I think it'd look gorgeous in that diamond setting you've posted. It would certainly be an attention grabber...

As for pricing, I have to say that I've seen precision cut Mahenge spinels of similar sizing go for more than $1k. In fact, I know of several sold by Gemfix that have gone for about $1,850. The coloring was more of a hot pink, but still the same size and precision cut. The one in the link below sold for around $1,200, I believe -- and before it was sold, I was very tempted to purchase it myself. (BTW if anyone on Pricescope DID buy, I'd LOVE to see real life photos - or photos of the set stone!!) It has amazing saturation and color in the photo. To be honest, I think the older Mahenge material was a lot more vivid and saturated than most of the newer stuff. It can be near impossible to find these days.

http://www.thegemtrader.com/Jan%2010%20MSpinel%20Page.htm

Personally, I'm not certain it's fair to compare Tan's gemstones to those that have been precision cut. Truly, his gems have amazing saturation and are lower in price -- but I don't think any are loupe clean at 20x and I don't think most are precision cut. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Tan's Mahenge spinels. I own two that I take out just to admire at different times. However, if you're looking for something with a fancy cut, like the one you have right now... there's going to be a premium on the cutting.

Just some of my thoughts...for what they're worth....

 

[LD]

Personally, I'm not certain it's fair to compare Tan's gemstones to those that have been precision cut. Truly, his gems have amazing saturation and are lower in price -- but I don't think any are loupe clean at 20x and I don't think most are precision cut. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Tan's Mahenge spinels. I own two that I take out just to admire at different times. However, if you're looking for something with a fancy cut, like the one you have right now... there's going to be a premium on the cutting.

Just some of my thoughts...for what they're worth....

Please don't ever look at coloured gemstones with a loupe of 20x magnification and think they should be loupe clean! If they are, then there's a very good possibility that they're synthetic! 10x is the very most you should be using and in fact, unlike diamonds, I wouldn't use a loupe at all when deciding to buy. I would use my eyes! 10x is only good for identifcation of gemstones (ie inclusions etc). No gem vendor will want you to look at their gems under 20x magnification to make a judgement on quality of a gemstone.

 

[Coco914]

LD - No worries! LOL I actually never lope my gemstones and personally don't mind some minor inclusions. Autumn posted earlier that the Mahenge in question was loupe clean at 20x, but purchased from a reputible vendor with certification. To me, that sounds like a rare find.

 

[LD]

LD - No worries! LOL I actually never lope my gemstones and personally don't mind some minor inclusions. Autumn posted earlier that the Mahenge in question was loupe clean at 20x, but purchased from a reputible vendor with certification. To me, that sounds like a rare find.

Aaaaah I see! Thank you!

I just worry when I see comments like that because newbies will think that 20x is what we all use - when that's very far from the truth when selecting gems. Actually I like to see inclusions as it reassures me that a gem is real (if I can identify them)!

 

[VapidLapid]

I loupe. I don't make it the basis of my evaluation and I adjust my criteria, but still I loupe. I like seeing what's in there. When it can tell me if a stone is natural v synth even better. Fine intact silk threads in a sapphire? even better. Ok, for that one, by loupe I mean microscope. Even when my eyes were good I couldnt have seen those unassisted. Im 51, things get blurry when they are closer than 16 inches. Louping is good, as long as it isn't your judging criterion. My Princess mahenge is 3x loupe clean, but not microscope clean. Then again my 3x loupe clean might now be a younger person's eye clean.

Thanks AINE, glad you like the photos. I am a photographer.

I don't know if the spinel book is available on amazon, but it's worth a try. My book however is available there.

Do let us know your final verdict on the stone

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

Here is another comparison, and I am sure you have already seen many many examples on this site already !!!
I purchased this Swala Spinel in June '10 for about half what you paid, and it's 1.02 ct.
I didn't know what I was doing, and it was my second colored stone purchase ever.
I see that since then, the pricing has gone out of sight !!!
I am not convinced that I could buy a comparable stone for that money now...

Below you can see it hanging out in my computer room (hmm did I use flash?), in the outdoor shade, and
then there is a random iphone pic I took of it in my car (grey tinted windows)
while sitting at a green light.

I love this stone, and I sympathize with your dilemma ~ they NEVER seem to photograph as you see them,
and they look different depending on the light.
I have plastered oh-too-many photos of my spinels all over this board, and I am convinced that the reason
why is that the PHOTOS NEVER LOOK RIGHT ~ they DON'T look how I really see the stone

My advice is, you seem to love your stone, if I am reading you right.
If you are happy with it, then keep it....
Here is my secret.
When I got this stone in the mail, my heart DID NOT SING.
It grew on me though.
and I wouldn't trade it for anything now, and I don't care if anyone else doesn't like it
or doesn't think it's ideal.

 

[T L]

If you see a top color mahenge, or even a top pink mahenge, there's no doubt in your mind its something that you want to keep. I think that is true of any top color gemstone actually. If you have to ask, "Am I selling it short? Or does it lack the true Mahenge color? I just don't know... " then it probably doesn't, or it's not a good specimen of Mahenge color, and for that kind of money, I would want it to be. If you're having second thoughts, or you don't love it, but like it, then it's probably best to return it if it is an expensive stone. You can use the money to buy something better. We all work too hard for our money to spend it on purchases that we aren't in love with (unless you have money to burn of course). I am only being honest with you because despite the inaccuracy of your photos, you did say "it's not neon" and that tells me that the price point for that size doesn't measure up to the stone itself. If you had said, "it's so neon, and it glows" and "I LOVE it" or something akin to that, then I would have shut up, despite the photos. You seem pretty lackluster about the color, but you love the cutting. Is the cutting worth $700 extra to you, because if it weren't precision cut, you could probably get that same color/clarity/size for $300.

I don't mean to be rude, but you did ask me to be honest, and when I saw your photos, my first thought was that it was an inexpensive ebay purchase. I was shocked it was $1K. I know some people think I'm brutal in my words, but I really don't like seeing people overspend their money, afterall, this is a consumer forum.

I have several mahenge, and have seen numerous examples at gem shows, and quality of color varies so much. With some of my finest examples however, there is no doubt in my mind about their quality, and they are saturated in all lighting situations.

 

[LD]

If you see a top color mahenge, or even a top pink mahenge, there's no doubt in your mind its something that you want to keep. I think that is true of any top color gemstone actually. If you're having second thoughts, or you don't love it, but like it, then it's probably best to return it if it is an expensive stone. You can use the money to buy something better. We all work too hard for our money to spend it on purchases that we aren't in love with (unless you have money to burn of course). I am only being honest with you because despite the inaccuracy of your photos, you did say "it's not neon" and that tells me that the price point for that size doesn't measure up to the stone itself. If you had said, "it's so neon, and it glows" and "I LOVE it" or something akin to that, then I would have shut up, despite the photos. You seem pretty lackluster about the color, but you love the cutting. Is the cutting worth $700 extra to you, because if it weren't precision cut, you could probably get that same color/clarity/size for $300.

I don't mean to be rude, but you did ask me to be honest, and when I saw your photos, my first thought was that it was an inexpensive ebay purchase. I was shocked it was $1K. I know some people think I'm brutal in my words, but I really don't like seeing people overspend their money, afterall, this is a consumer forum.

+1

 

[Autumn in New England]

Hello all!

Hi LD - Thanks for checking in, and thanks for your photos. Personally, I think that color is gorgeous. Yeah, right now it's not a matter of whether the color of my stone is this or that (as we've definitely covered that ground sufficiently! haa haa), but just a question of whether I will keep it or not. I haven't decided just yet. My problem is that I haven't seen anything else for sale that I like better than this one (in my price range - I'm probably willing to go $1,500 tops for a stone that knocks my socks off). I usually have a bit more to burn but I recently spent $$$$$ on a padparadscha and paraiba which I still have to set (and then I still have to set this one). But a labor (and expense) of love of course. Anyway... I will keep looking and then make my decision. I think it has to go back by Tuesday. P.S. If I went with a solitaire, I would definitely do v-prongs.

Hello VAgemguy - I did look at that stone before I purchased this one (thanks for posting the link). That color does look beautiful and it is half the price of mine. But as others have mentioned, I'm not sure I could live with that cut. It's a mess (all due respect), although the clarity looks great. And that's the problem every gem collector faces... there's always a give and take between color, cut, clarity, weight, etc. My stone is definitely a hot pink in person, so I'm not even sure this one would be brighter? Neon? Ahhhhhhhhhh I'm so addled right now when it comes to this. I hope I don't sound like I'm whining though... there are worse things to be uncertain about!

Coco - Love your avatar! Thanks for the pricing comparisons. My idea of the perfect Mahenge (as far as my collection is concerned) is a true neon pink, regardless of the secondary. I have a 2.09 ct. neon Namya red already (now that one sings to me), so I want pink pink pink. Thanks again for the encouragement!

 

[Aoife]

AutumnInNewEngland, I would love to see photos of your pad and your Namya. Do they have threads?

If you see a top color mahenge, or even a top pink mahenge, there's no doubt in your mind its something that you want to keep. I think that is true of any top color gemstone actually. If you're having second thoughts, or you don't love it, but like it, then it's probably best to return it if it is an expensive stone. You can use the money to buy something better. We all work too hard for our money to spend it on purchases that we aren't in love with (unless you have money to burn of course). I am only being honest with you because despite the inaccuracy of your photos, you did say "it's not neon" and that tells me that the price point for that size doesn't measure up to the stone itself. If you had said, "it's so neon, and it glows" and "I LOVE it" or something akin to that, then I would have shut up, despite the photos. You seem pretty lackluster about the color, but you love the cutting. Is the cutting worth $700 extra to you, because if it weren't precision cut, you could probably get that same color/clarity/size for $300.

I don't mean to be rude, but you did ask me to be honest, and when I saw your photos, my first thought was that it was an inexpensive ebay purchase. I was shocked it was $1K. I know some people think I'm brutal in my words, but I really don't like seeing people overspend their money, afterall, this is a consumer forum.

+1

I certainly don't disagree that this is a consumer forum, and TL, LD, and many others provide important and valuable feedback. I learn something every day from the contributions of the CS regulars, and I sincerely thank everyone who takes the time to respond to my posts, or any other posts. And, I am no doubt in the minority, but I do think how we, as regulars, communicate that feedback is important. This is not in direct reference to AINE, or this thread, but I feel strongly that no one should post a question on this forum and be made to feel foolish. I also think that if one of us feels that someone has overpaid, or that better color in a stone is available elsewhere, that posting links is a great way to illustrate those points, as well as offer (possibly) better options.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Hi again Vapid - I knew you had to be a photographer! May I ask where in the world you are from? US or over the pond? I'd love to hear more about your book.

Hello Shiney! Now that's a HAPPY little stone. I especially love the shot of it hanging out on the polish bottle. Now, to me, that is the PERFECT pink color. If this stone were that bright, I could buy the farm a satisfied person. I looked on Swala and didn't see anything that grabbed me (that wasn't already sold!). But maybe I'll head over again just for kicks...

Hi again TL - Please don't worry about hurting my feelings! The stone isn't even mine yet, and if I do keep it, I will be certain I love it. I know I seem "mezza mezz" about the color. Like I said, it didn't wow me when I opened the package. But my expectations are always very high and I'm easily disappointed unfortunately. If it isn't too much trouble, would you be willing to share photos of your stones? Everyone's examples, links, and photos are really helping. TIA!

Thanks again ladies (and gents)!

 

[LD]

Aoife - I agree. It's sometimes difficult to guage the wording and feedback correctly (especially if asked to give an honest opinion). Sometimes I look at threads and think it's better not to say anything rather than say "ooooo that's lovely" when clearly it's not (not referring to this thread by the way).

If I ask for an honest opinion then I expect one and understand people see things differently and words can be blunt (it's always worse than being able to express oneself in person) but I know that some people ask for an "honest" reaction and then defend their stone to the hilt. It's on those occasions that it's best to back out of the thread! Like TL, I really hate to see people overpaying but at the end of the day, it's their money.

I actually don't have much spare time to be able to scour looking for links for others (will do so when I have time) but I do try to provide comparisons as an aid where I can.

As I said I am NOT referring to this thread but in general.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Aoife - You seem like a real sweetheart. I sincerely appreciate all your help. I agree that there's no better way to learn than with constructive advice... and lots of visuals!

I thought you'd never ask! lol Just kidding... I did have a thread on my pad.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/padparadscha-lovers-and-experts-needed.170875/

Talk about a difficult stone to photograph! It's about one zillion times more beautiful in person. I've never seen brilliance like that before in a sapphire. It's the first thing everyone notices... great cut. I swear you can see it across the room. I'm getting ready to set it (I went with a 3 stone design, half carat trillions VS, F, 18k white gold with a rose gold head). So excited! I don't have photos of my Namya (it's already set), but I will certainly try to take some ("try" being the operative word). I never had any reason to take photos of my gems before joining this forum. Trying to get the hang of it. I received my paraiba on Thursday and immediately sent it off to the AGL for certification (it came with a report from GIT, but I like to get my own as well). So I will definitely take photos of both and post them! Thanks so much for asking. Those might be the three favorite stones I own (along with the other big 3 of course). I should take one of those photos of all my CS rings together like I've seen others do. Although, it's hard enough to capture ONE correctly in a photo!

 

[T L]

Aoife - I agree. It's sometimes difficult to guage the wording and feedback correctly (especially if asked to give an honest opinion). Sometimes I look at threads and think it's better not to say anything rather than say "ooooo that's lovely" when clearly it's not (not referring to this thread by the way).

If I ask for an honest opinion then I expect one and understand people see things differently and words can be blunt (it's always worse than being able to express oneself in person) but I know that some people ask for an "honest" reaction and then defend their stone to the hilt. It's on those occasions that it's best to back out of the thread! Like TL, I really hate to see people overpaying but at the end of the day, it's their money.

I actually don't have much spare time to be able to scour looking for links for others (will do so when I have time) but I do try to provide comparisons as an aid where I can.

As I said I am NOT referring to this thread but in general.

I agree with the highlighted comment, and honestly, I have had lots of negative feedback because I've been really honest in the past. Nowadays, I'm much much more quiet about my true opinion, so I opt to say nothing, or agree with the poster, as I did in my initial post in this thread. I realize that there is a lot of sensitivity, especially when someone spends a great deal of money on something, which is understandable. However, if someone asks for my honest opinion, I will be as honest as possible. If some people feel my wording is wrong or insensitive, that's their prerogative, you can't make 100% of people happy 100% of the time.

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

Aoife - I agree. It's sometimes difficult to guage the wording and feedback correctly (especially if asked to give an honest opinion).

I agree with the highlighted comment, and honestly, I have had lots of negative feedback because I've been really honest in the past. Nowadays, I'm much much more quiet about my true opinion, so I opt to say nothing, or agree with the poster, as I did in my initial post in this thread. I realize that there is a lot of sensitivity, especially when someone spends a great deal of money on something, which is understandable. However, if someone asks for my honest opinion, I will be as honest as possible. If some people feel my wording is wrong or insensitive, that's their prerogative, you can't make 100% of people happy 100% of the time.

Actually, I think this is why ppl often ask * specifically * for your opinion TL, and in doing so, should be appreciating your honesty !!!
You are always letting ppl know that we all work hard for our money (*SO TRUE*)
AND so we should get our best value, and that is the best and most honest thing anyone here has to say !!!!
You are giving your time after all, and that is also valuable.
So don't feel you are too blunt.
In speaking for myself, that is one of the reasons I like coming here, and it is how I learn.

 

[T L]

Hi again Vapid - I knew you had to be a photographer! May I ask where in the world you are from? US or over the pond? I'd love to hear more about your book.

Hello Shiney! Now that's a HAPPY little stone. I especially love the shot of it hanging out on the polish bottle. Now, to me, that is the PERFECT pink color. If this stone were that bright, I could buy the farm a satisfied person. I looked on Swala and didn't see anything that grabbed me (that wasn't already sold!). But maybe I'll head over again just for kicks...

Hi again TL - Please don't worry about hurting my feelings! The stone isn't even mine yet, and if I do keep it, I will be certain I love it. I know I seem "mezza mezz" about the color. Like I said, it didn't wow me when I opened the package. But my expectations are always very high and I'm easily disappointed unfortunately. If it isn't too much trouble, would you be willing to share photos of your stones? Everyone's examples, links, and photos are really helping. TIA!

Thanks again ladies (and gents)!

Here are some examples of my threads with mahenges in them.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mint-garnet-and-mahenge-spinel-ring.168656/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mint-garnet-and-mahenge-spinel-ring.168656/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/trillion-mahenge-and-violet-spinel-bypass-ring.155872/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/trillion-mahenge-and-violet-spinel-bypass-ring.155872/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-obnoxious-i-want-to-show-off-my-new-camera-thread.157240/?hilit=obnoxious']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-obnoxious-i-want-to-show-off-my-new-camera-thread.157240/?hilit=obnoxious[/URL]

and here's a very accuarate picture of one of my favorites

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

GAH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The BEAUTY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[T L]

So don't feel you are too blunt.

ooo~Shiney!
I appreciate the kind words, but I know others feel I am too blunt. Like I said, you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time. I think it's also the nature of forums in general, but thank you, you are very sweet.

Oh and Autumn!
THANK YOU for being so open to honest opinions. I appreciate that as well.

 

[jstarfireb]

Autumn specifically asked for TL's honest opinion, and that's what she got. Everything was worded graciously, and I don't think anyone overstepped their bounds here. This thread is an example of honest constructive criticism done right.

In general, I think the important (and difficult) thing is to know when someone is asking for an honest critique of their purchase or if they're just proud to have bought something and showing it off. Nothing wrong with either, but getting the appropriate responses mixed up can cause some hurt feelings. But for what it's worth, I think it's a shame that knowledgeable people like TL feel like they have to bite their tongues rather than reply honestly for fear of being thought of as mean or whatever.

As for the stone, I think the cut is gorgeous, and it's up to you to figure out whether it's worth keeping. Almost all of my stones are precision-cut but not top color, so I can identify!

 

[Autumn in New England]

TL! First, I want to say that my stone looks sooooo close to the color of your stone in the bypass ring with the violet spinel! It really does. Of course the cut and refraction are different. Secondly, that red trilliant is TDF period. Do you mind my asking where you purchased that one? Enjoy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow. My Namya is an oval and it has the most glorious plugged in red color. I must take photos!

Hi jstar - Thanks for your comments on the stone! Precisions are hard to beat for sure. It's all a give and take... and can make your head spin at times. Especially when you love gem collecting as much as we all do. Decisions, decisions.

 

[T L]

TL! First, I want to say that my stone looks sooooo close to the color of your stone in the bypass ring with the violet spinel! It really does. Of course the cut and refraction are different. Secondly, that red trilliant is TDF period. Do you mind my asking where you purchased that one? Enjoy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow. My Namya is an oval and it has the most glorious plugged in red color. I must take photos!

Hi jstar - Thanks for your comments on the stone! Precisions are hard to beat for sure. It's all a give and take... and can make your head spin at times. Especially when you love gem collecting as much as we all do. Decisions, decisions.

Thank you, I purchased all the Mahenges in my threads from Tan. He has ebay stores odysseygem, gemcatalogue and vvs1gem, except for the two trillion pairs around the mint garnet, they came from Intergem dealer Primagems.