First Spinel- Help!

[sunshinegal]

I’m curious about the origin too. Vietnamese spinels tend to be less grey than the ones from Sri Lanka.

The vendor seems to have stones from all over but they're based in Sri Lanka (I believe), so that would be my best guess.

 

[sunshinegal]

So-- a new contender has emerged. Two, actually, but this is the other blue one. And then they have a pink one I can't get out of my mind, and I'm still loving the pastel. I wish I had unlimited funds. Here's a photo and a video (photo outdoors, video indoors). It is considerably more than the pastel, but still very reasonable, IMO. Anything I'm missing? I don't have video of the pink I can share but I can take a few screenshots. Blue oval is just over 2 cts.

https://imgur.com/a/JUx9s0m

 

[sunshinegal]

And the pink (no videos, just poor screenshots taken from videos). It looks like a chameleon, but I like all of its shades. It's a nice cut and as far as I can tell, doesn't look like it has much of a window, if any. Also just over 2 cts.

Thank you for any input! I am all over the place, I know.

 

[sunshinegal]

I know that no matter what, these won't be top color, but I don't have the cash for top color. No cobalt/jedi for me, unless it's teeny tiny. I'd ideally like to stay above 2 carats and the price is very right on these.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

I know that no matter what, these won't be top color, but I don't have the cash for top color. No cobalt/jedi for me, unless it's teeny tiny. I'd ideally like to stay above 2 carats and the price is very right on these.

I love both of those new contenders. They both look like excellent quality without any noticeable grey as far as I can tell. Do you wear more blue or more pink? Blue spinels of that quality are usually from Vietnam so I would ask I were you.

Sounds like you found a good vendor with decent prices for nice gems.

 

[fredflintstone]

So-- a new contender has emerged. Two, actually, but this is the other blue one. And then they have a pink one I can't get out of my mind, and I'm still loving the pastel. I wish I had unlimited funds. Here's a photo and a video (photo outdoors, video indoors). It is considerably more than the pastel, but still very reasonable, IMO. Anything I'm missing? I don't have video of the pink I can share but I can take a few screenshots. Blue oval is just over 2 cts.

https://imgur.com/a/JUx9s0m

This looks to be very nice. You will get a lot more dispersion (sparkle) from this stone. It also looks to be medium in tone, meaning not to dark, not to light. Many blue Spinels are darker to too dark. I like it!

 

[voce]

I know that no matter what, these won't be top color, but I don't have the cash for top color. No cobalt/jedi for me, unless it's teeny tiny. I'd ideally like to stay above 2 carats and the price is very right on these.

Above 2 carats is actually pretty rare for spinel, more so when it's a rare color like a nice blue, not a greyish blue. It would be raising major flags for me, because you could be purchasing synthetic spinel. Especially over Instagram, where the buyer has no recourse, I would not trust buying any spinel over 2cts without a report from trustworthy labs like Lotus.

If you fancy the cobalt color, precision gem can cut affordable, amazing synthetic cobalt spinel that will outshine the gems that you've shared.

 

[sunshinegal]

Well, shoot- you think there’s a good chance they're synthetic? Even the pink? The prices are good but not a ton less than I’m seeing on Etsy or even from desertgems. Is getting a Lotus certificate expensive?

Above 2 carats is actually pretty rare for spinel, more so when it's a rare color like a nice blue, not a greyish blue. It would be raising major flags for me, because you could be purchasing synthetic spinel. Especially over Instagram, where the buyer has no recourse, I would not trust buying any spinel over 2cts without a report from trustworthy labs like Lotus.

If you fancy the cobalt color, precision gem can cut affordable, amazing synthetic cobalt spinel that will outshine the gems that you've shared.

 

[fredflintstone]

Well, shoot- you think there’s a good chance they're synthetic? Even the pink? The prices are good but not a ton less than I’m seeing on Etsy or even from desertgems. Is getting a Lotus certificate expensive?

That is pure conjecture.

Make the vendor invoice you through PayPal with all details of the stone listed if you have an account. That way you have a third party arbitrator if the stone is not as represented to protect you and get your money back.

No one gets wet unless they jump into the pool.

Their are plenty of good vendors on IG and there are some bad ones.

Just like anywhere else on the internet.

You will never know unless you take a dive.

 

[fredflintstone]

Any good gemologist can tell you whether a Spinel is earth mined or synthetic.

Sure, you can go to Lotus, but you better off going to AIGS in Thailand (Asian Institute of Gemological Sciences) for a report on a Spinel. It is not rocket science to figure out whether a Spinel is earth mined or lab created and AIGS is a lot cheaper.

Don't waste your money on expensive reports for Spinel. AIGS is more than capable. If you are buying from a Thai dealer.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Above 2 carats is actually pretty rare for spinel, more so when it's a rare color like a nice blue, not a greyish blue. It would be raising major flags for me, because you could be purchasing synthetic spinel. Especially over Instagram, where the buyer has no recourse, I would not trust buying any spinel over 2cts without a report from trustworthy labs like Lotus.

If you fancy the cobalt color, precision gem can cut affordable, amazing synthetic cobalt spinel that will outshine the gems that you've shared.

This did occur to me too. The price on the first one does seem lower than I would have expected for the size. I don’t know the prices on the second ones so hard to say how low they really are.

 

[icy_jade]

Madagascan maybe? Am seeing quite a bit of blue-greys from there

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Any good gemologist can tell you whether a Spinel is earth mined or synthetic.

Hey Fred,even a bad gemmo can tell synthetic spinel from natural.

But can I ask why you use the term "earth mined" please?

 

[fredflintstone]

Hey Fred,even a bad gemmo can tell synthetic spinel from natural.

But can I ask why you use the term "earth mined" please?

Hi Garry:

Why do I call a natural Spinel mined from the earth, "earth mined"? It did not come from a lab it came from the earth, hence, "earth mined." It is a natural Spinel, which generally has a lower R.I. than then lab created synthetic Spinel & a lower specfic gravity.

Yes, anyone can tell the difference if they have the right tools and know how to use them.

 

[OneKuhlChic]

I think it’s a very bright and pretty pastel color. What country is it from? It looks Sri Lankan, just curious.

Agreed... !!

 

[T L]

So-- a new contender has emerged. Two, actually, but this is the other blue one. And then they have a pink one I can't get out of my mind, and I'm still loving the pastel. I wish I had unlimited funds. Here's a photo and a video (photo outdoors, video indoors). It is considerably more than the pastel, but still very reasonable, IMO. Anything I'm missing? I don't have video of the pink I can share but I can take a few screenshots. Blue oval is just over 2 cts.

https://imgur.com/a/JUx9s0m

I love this stone, but I am very partial toward violet blue spinels, as they’re my favorite color of spinel. They used to be more available, but they seem harder to find than red these days.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hi Garry:

Why do I call a natural Spinel mined from the earth, "earth mined"? It did not come from a lab it came from the earth, hence, "earth mined." It is a natural Spinel, which generally has a lower R.I. than then lab created synthetic Spinel & a lower specfic gravity.

Yes, anyone can tell the difference if they have the right tools and know how to use them.

When did you first use that term? Can you remember?

 

[fredflintstone]

When did you first use that term? Can you remember?

Years ago. To many to remember.

Many use that term as it is what a natural gemstone is, "earth mined, unless you include Peridot from metorites.

Don't know why it really matters?

 

[voce]

Hi Garry:

Why do I call a natural Spinel mined from the earth, "earth mined"? It did not come from a lab it came from the earth, hence, "earth mined." It is a natural Spinel, which generally has a lower R.I. than then lab created synthetic Spinel & a lower specfic gravity.

Yes, anyone can tell the difference if they have the right tools and know how to use them.

If the crystal lattice structure is the same, the R.I. and specific gravity would be the same, too. If they were different, it would be a stimulant. Cubic zirconia is a diamond stimulant and had different R.I. and specific gravity compared to diamond, in addition to other differences like Moh's hardness and cleavage. A synthetic, lab created diamond has the same R.I., specific gravity compared to an earth mined diamond.

I do not see how the average gemologist can detect the difference between earth-mined and lab diamond, untreated and lab sapphire, or earth-mined and lab spinel without specialized equipment, either powerful microscopes or FTIR to say the least. Yes, AIGS has the equipment to test, not just Lotus, as can a number of other labs. I've not ever seen an AIGS report for a spinel, however, and I've seen Lotus reports for spinels, which will mention clarity treatments as well as whether it's 'natural'.

It's a buyer beware market in gemstones, and unless a third-party lab can verify the results, or there are obvious inclusions that are unlikely to be lab-produced, I would suspect any larger stone that is marketed at a price far below other comparable stones for sale.

 

[fredflintstone]

If the crystal lattice structure is the same, the R.I. and specific gravity would be the same, too. If they were different, it would be a stimulant. Cubic zirconia is a diamond stimulant and had different R.I. and specific gravity compared to diamond, in addition to other differences like Moh's hardness and cleavage. A synthetic, lab created diamond has the same R.I., specific gravity compared to an earth mined diamond.

I do not see how the average gemologist can detect the difference between earth-mined and lab diamond, untreated and lab sapphire, or earth-mined and lab spinel without specialized equipment, either powerful microscopes or FTIR to say the least. Yes, AIGS has the equipment to test, not just Lotus, as can a number of other labs. I've not ever seen an AIGS report for a spinel, however, and I've seen Lotus reports for spinels, which will mention clarity treatments as well as whether it's 'natural'.

It's a buyer beware market in gemstones, and unless a third-party lab can verify the results, or there are obvious inclusions that are unlikely to be lab-produced, I would suspect any larger stone that is marketed at a price far below other comparable stones for sale.

No, not true with Spinel. You need to read up about the difference, slight as they are there is a difference in natural to lab created. Both in R.I. & specific gravity. Any one well acquainted with the gemological aspects of both with the right tools can tell the difference. Just like there is tell tale signs between synthetic Sapphire and natural.


I don't have time to go in it here now. So, I copied & pasted this & will give the link:

Difference between Natural and Synthetic Spinels:-


Picture Courtesy – GIA

1. Microscopic Evidence: Synthetic Spinels have flux or some growth viewed under careful microscopic observations while Natural Spinels have a lot of natural inclusions or at least some when viewed under a microscope. The following pictures would explain this concept more clearly.


2. Magnetic Properties: Natural and Synthetic Spinels can be separated based on their different magnetic properties. A Natural Spinel has iron content hence; they show weak to moderate responses to magnets. While Synthetic Spinels have no iron content in them as a result, they do not any respond to magnets. Some light-colored and orange color of Natural Spinels is colored due to chromium, which causes it to be repelled by a magnet.

3. Refractive Index and Specific Gravity: The Natural Spinel has a Refractive Index of 1.72, in the case of Red Spinel it is 1.74 and in Zinc-rich Spinel it can be1.805 (rare to be found). Synthetic Spinels has a noticeably different R.I. of 1.727-+0.001. The specific gravity of Natural Spinels has S.G. ranges 3.58-3.61, Zinc rich Spinels have S.G. as high as 4.40. Synthetic Spinels has S.G. ranges between 3.63- 3.64.

4. Fluorescence under UV rays: A Natural Spinel has the strongest fluorescence under a long wavelength and weak to absent under a short wavelength. While, Synthetic Spinels have strong fluorescence under a short wavelength and may often a bright blue, chalky green, or red fluorescence.

How to separate synthetic and natural Spinel?

Your supplier is tricking you by supplying synthetic spinel? Now it's easy to distinguish between natural and synthetic spinel after reading this article.

www.navneetgems.com

 

[sunshinegal]

All of this information is great, everyone! Please keep it coming!

Re: sizes/pricing, this is a trusted PS vendor, right? And right in line both in size and price to the IG vendor. This is not to say the IG vendor isn’t selling synthetic, but I see a lot of spinels in the same range all over the internet. Is spinel often faked?

Loose gemstones, rare colored stones, pearls and certified diamonds.

Buy loose gemstones and certified diamonds direct. Choose from over 10.000 real time gemstone inventory, including alexandrite, sapphire, ruby, tanzanite, tsavorite, spinel and tourmaline.

www.multicolour.com

 

[T L]

I see a lot of spinels in the same range all over the internet. Is spinel often faked?

Yes, it’s a very commonly used synthetic gem.

 

[fredflintstone]

All of this information is great, everyone! Please keep it coming!

Re: sizes/pricing, this is a trusted PS vendor, right? And right in line both in size and price to the IG vendor. This is not to say the IG vendor isn’t selling synthetic, but I see a lot of spinels in the same range all over the internet. Is spinel often faked?

Loose gemstones, rare colored stones, pearls and certified diamonds.

Buy loose gemstones and certified diamonds direct. Choose from over 10.000 real time gemstone inventory, including alexandrite, sapphire, ruby, tanzanite, tsavorite, spinel and tourmaline.

www.multicolour.com

Yes, there is a lot of synthetic Spinel but the majority of vendors no matter where they are will sale you the real thing. It serves no business purpose to swindle people in a world as small as colored gemstones because eventually everyone will know and just like that...poof...their gone. No business = no income. It is just self defeating to rip people off in this business.

David Weinberg of Multicolour is an icon in the industry of colored stones. You can trust him like the sun rising and setting every day.

 

[voce]

No, not true with Spinel. You need to read up about the difference, slight as they are there is a difference in natural to lab created. Both in R.I. & specific gravity. Any one well acquainted with the gemological aspects of both with the right tools can tell the difference. Just like there is tell tale signs between synthetic Sapphire and natural.


I don't have time to go in it here now. So, I copied & pasted this & will give the link:

Difference between Natural and Synthetic Spinels:-


Picture Courtesy – GIA

1. Microscopic Evidence: Synthetic Spinels have flux or some growth viewed under careful microscopic observations while Natural Spinels have a lot of natural inclusions or at least some when viewed under a microscope. The following pictures would explain this concept more clearly.


2. Magnetic Properties: Natural and Synthetic Spinels can be separated based on their different magnetic properties. A Natural Spinel has iron content hence; they show weak to moderate responses to magnets. While Synthetic Spinels have no iron content in them as a result, they do not any respond to magnets. Some light-colored and orange color of Natural Spinels is colored due to chromium, which causes it to be repelled by a magnet.

3. Refractive Index and Specific Gravity: The Natural Spinel has a Refractive Index of 1.72, in the case of Red Spinel it is 1.74 and in Zinc-rich Spinel it can be1.805 (rare to be found). Synthetic Spinels has a noticeably different R.I. of 1.727-+0.001. The specific gravity of Natural Spinels has S.G. ranges 3.58-3.61, Zinc rich Spinels have S.G. as high as 4.40. Synthetic Spinels has S.G. ranges between 3.63- 3.64.

4. Fluorescence under UV rays: A Natural Spinel has the strongest fluorescence under a long wavelength and weak to absent under a short wavelength. While, Synthetic Spinels have strong fluorescence under a short wavelength and may often a bright blue, chalky green, or red fluorescence.

How to separate synthetic and natural Spinel?

Your supplier is tricking you by supplying synthetic spinel? Now it's easy to distinguish between natural and synthetic spinel after reading this article.

www.navneetgems.com

All of this information you posted is good information, but it's directed mostly at red synthetic spinels and flame fusion. The magnification looks about 50x-100x, which will probably require a better microscope than a handheld loupe. The difference in RI is about 0.01 or 0.02 and would require a digital refractometer. The difference quoted from the article indicates that the impurities inducing color in the crystal is not very well-controlled, i.e. too heavily doped with the trace elements, so the specific gravity is noticeably higher. It is not so easy for the layman to measure specific gravity without specialized instruments. The fluorescence and magnetism is easily testable, but I haven't been successful at getting vendors to show that to me, or give me numerical values for RI or specific gravity before the financial transaction is made. Vendors prefer to send it to a lab first rather than testing the gem themselves, and often times, especially over Instagram or LoupeTroop, it's buy at your own risk and hope that the vendor has a good return policy in case you do find fault with the gem.

The easiest option is to buy from a trusted vendor who sells gems for a living and has a reputation on the line if they sell a gem not as described. Multicolour is one of the best vendors out there. They are very transparent and honest concerning any treatments or synthetics, and if they say it's natural, I believe them.

 

[fredflintstone]

All of this information you posted is good information, but it's directed mostly at red synthetic spinels and flame fusion. The magnification looks about 50x-100x, which will probably require a better microscope than a handheld loupe. The difference in RI is about 0.01 or 0.02 and would require a digital refractometer. The difference quoted from the article indicates that the impurities inducing color in the crystal is not very well-controlled, i.e. too heavily doped with the trace elements, so the specific gravity is noticeably higher. It is not so easy for the layman to measure specific gravity without specialized instruments. The fluorescence and magnetism is easily testable, but I haven't been successful at getting vendors to show that to me, or give me numerical values for RI or specific gravity before the financial transaction is made. Vendors prefer to send it to a lab first rather than testing the gem themselves, and often times, especially over Instagram or LoupeTroop, it's buy at your own risk and hope that the vendor has a good return policy in case you do find fault with the gem.

The easiest option is to buy from a trusted vendor who sells gems for a living and has a reputation on the line if they sell a gem not as described. Multicolour is one of the best vendors out there. They are very transparent and honest concerning any treatments or synthetics, and if they say it's natural, I believe them.

As I said, any good gemologist can do it. For any color. They have the tools. Not speaking of laymen here. Most experienced dealers can do it too. The main reason dealers will send a Spinel for a report (including me when I was selling gemstones) is that when you reach a certain price point on Spinel or any other stone for that matter you are asked about reports from interested customers, so why not just send them in and be done with it first. No vendor likes to be stuck putting a stone on the market then some customers wants a report on it that takes 4 to 6 weeks to do it and then changes their mind or buys another stone before the report is finished. It is better to have it done first.

This article also encompasses flux melt synthetic Spinel. Which encompasses most Reds as flame fusion does not produce large reds as the boule is not stable enough to cut large red stones. Reds, pinks, & cobalt color blues are the most synthesized Spinel’s. Though red flags are high with green & especially yellow. I have yet to see a true pure green or yellow natural Spinel. Occasional you will see violets and lavenders that are synthetic that are sold as natural, but that is an exception, not the rule, especially dealing with dealers who will invoice you through PayPal. It does not make good business sense to rip customers off with synthetics through PayPal, as the customer can come back on them. They do it to many times and they lose their PayPal account, especially Sri Lankan dealers who cannot use PayPal through their own country but must have a friend or relative in another country (usually Thailand) receive the money for them through their account. Cutting off a Sri Lanka or any gemstone dealer from PayPal can be a major financial blow to their business. It is the last thing they want. That is why I say, always pay through PayPal with an invoice or as send payment for merchandise. It gives you leverage and that amounts to security. If they complain about the 4.99% charge from PayPal for the invoice or money sent to a merchant, pay it. It is not that big of a deal. But it is to them.

Yes, David at Multicolour does all his own testing inhouse but will send stones out to labs if asked, and if he is asked which one, he will most likely tell you AIGS (Asian Institute of Gemological Sciences) unless you are spending tens of thousands of dollars and then is not because he does not think AIGS can do it right, it is because of name recognition. The GIA, GRS, and now Lotus are much more well known to western customers. Known David for decades, but of course he will be more than happy to send it to where the customer wants, after all, it is the customers money.

 

[sunshinegal]

@chrono, why the laugh reaction?