Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I buy!

[Gallant]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Hi all, I'm back.

Rene has VERY responsive with me, answered all of my numerous questions, responded to about 60 emails from me within minutes, and showed me a lot of patience! He also shipped the stone very quickly. It only took about 4 days to get to me from Sri Lanka.

That being said, the sapphire is unfortunately not up to my expectations at all.

It doesn't have hardly any sparkle, no fire. It's just not lively. The color is nice. But I think it's a bad cut (although I'm a novice, so I don't really know what is causing it to act the way it is).

The biggest issue I have is that the bowtie takes up about 90% of the stone, leaving only the very tips of the ends to sparkle. The bowtie area is dull and not clear and looks as if there there are two silver lights under the stone shining through.

Also, I don't know where the orange areas are. I can't find them. Perhaps they only come out in the sunlight. I haven't checked yet, but even if that's the case it's still a bummer.

I've made a video for you guys to take a look, shot under a 2700K light, because I think you get a better impression of the stone that way, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHzaQUog5vg

And here are a couple of photos.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

I would send it back. While it is a large stone (over 3 carats), $2800 is still a lot of money.

Do you like any of the pink sapphires listed here:
http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_pink.html

 

[Gallant]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Funny you mentioned GemFix. After getting this stone, Gemfix was the first place I looked at again. I visited Andrew before I ordered this one and he has a really nice stone but it's small. If I remember it's only about 7.5mm long. I'm looking for something around 9mm and he told me that he doesn't have any buying trip planned for a while. Although, I may have to take a drive down to SD again.

Gem2000/Pearlman has a few stones that may have possibilities. And Bill told me that I can have any one stone sent to me to view it in person. That's real nice to hear.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

That is disappointing indeed. But good for you for asking all the right questions and being comfortable enough to send it back.

 

[Gallant]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

That is disappointing indeed. But good for you for asking all the right questions and being comfortable enough to send it back.

Yeah it is. It's really annoying because I even told Rene that I was willing to spend more for a better stone. But he said this was the only one he had without a window and all of the other characteristics that I wanted, like orange/pink, around 9mm long, no shadowing, no zoning, eye clean, etc.

 

[Gallant]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

I guess I forgot to tell him that I needed a lively, sparkly, fiery stone!

 

[Gallant]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Here's another photo:

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

There are many vendors that assume the buyer is just not that discriminating - this vendor might have made the assumption that you would not notice the issues with the stone. Welcome to PS!

 

[Acinom]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Ah, this is disappointing. Luckily there is a good return policy.
Good luck in finding a great stone. I can recommend Gemfix

 

[T L]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Here's another photo:

Based on this picture, I don't think it's that bad, and some people prefer a sleepy stone, as they tend to "glow" more than sparkle, when the light hits them. However, if you don't like it, then send it back. Perhaps the price reflects the quality after all??? Just know that some padparadschas have this same sleepy quality and still command $$$$$$. Sleepiness is typically a sign that high heat has not been used as there is still silk in the stone. This means it probably wasn't diffused. It's still very large and not a bad price, but maybe it looks worse in person. It may look fantastic once set, as sometimes loose stones look pretty meh out of a setting. If you want more sparkle though, that color/size will probably be very very expensive, especially in an untreated stone.

Good luck on your decision.

ETA: I saw the video, and honestly, I don't think it's that bad. For the price, at least to me, it would be a keeper if I were in the market for an untreated, or low treated, affordable padparadscha. Do you have a setting you can throw it in or on top of, to see what it would look like? Remember too, in the video, it's going to look lackluster because padparadschas have a tendency to blend in with skin tone. This is a reason to set them, and use a complimentary metal. I bet you a company like NSC would sell that stone for at least $20K. I'm not kidding.

Now if you want that same color (do you like the color at least??), and you want sparkle, and better affordability, I would look at spinels. This is a spinel of mine that is very similar in color to this sapphire. It's sitting atop an empty setting to show how the white metal accentuates the color.

 

[Gallant]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

TL you've given me a lot to think about...

 

[chrono]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

I am sorry the stone isn't right for you and for me, I would not keep it either. Looking at the video which triggered suspicion that the stone is extremely shallow and flat, I then calculated the total depth to be close to the 60% mark, which is very low for a coloured stone. The lapidary tried to make the most of the rough material, hence cut it to not have any window but the trade-off is that the crown is very low, it ended up with a fairly large bowtie area and both contribute to the lack of sparkle.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

I would absolutely send it back. Do not settle!

 

[T L]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

TL you've given me a lot to think about...

I only said those things because the stone was very inexpensive for what it is. However, if you intensely dislike it, you should return it. I just don't think you're likely to get another one that size and color, for that price, even with the bow tie and clarity issues.

Good luck again!

 

[Gallant]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Sadly, the stone has been returned.

I took it over to two local jewelers and had it placed into empty settings. Although being inside a setting obscured the bowtie a bit, it still was obvious. The two sliverish spots in the middle (seen in the photos and what I call headlights) didn't diminish at all. The stone just didn't sparkle enough and wasn't lively enough for me. I liked, but didn't love it. And with an engagement ring, I've got to love it.

What gave me hope was that one of the jewelers produced a nice stone that was .3mm shorter with a window, but was much more sparkly and lively, and had tones of pink AND orange. To top it off it was $300 less. I'm not sure if I'll settle on that one, but the window didn't bother me as much as I thought it would once it was placed into a setting.

So now that I know that a window isn't necessarily a deal breaker, I'm back into my search. But honestly, I don't know how I'll ever find something online, because pictures just can't convey liveliness.

Honestly, I think I'll have to take up Bill Pearlman's offer and have a stone sent to me one by one, and also take another road trip down to GemFix.

In the meantime, anyone have some stone suggestions?

 

[chrono]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Honestly, I think I'll have to take up Bill Pearlman's offer and have a stone sent to me one by one, and also take another road trip down to GemFix.

Please do!

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Keep in mind that while still pics may not convey liveliness, sometimes video can, so see if the vendor will send videos. Good luck to you!

 

[upcyclist]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Since you did mention you were willing to spend more for better stone, I'd recommend a precision-cut stone. It will outperform any traditionally cut stone, especially in regards to windowing and the bowtie effect. You'll also get a better polish, which means a sparkly stone will sparkle more. Yeah, I'm a cutter, so take that advice with a grain of salt, but our stuff looks better for a reason

As others have mentioned, there will be some degree of bowtie in most oval cuts, and a higher length-to-width ratio (i.e., longer and skinnier) will come with a more pronounced bowtie. So, given the hand-in-hand nature of bowties & ovals, you need to decide which is worth more to you: oval shape, or absolutely no bowtie?

As for stone species recommendations, the two natural ones that always come to mind for non-diamond e-rings are corundum (sapph/ruby) and spinel. As you slide further down the hardness scale, the value proposition is one of '4 Cs' vs. durability. Do you work with your hands a lot? Will you never remove the ring (many guys are in this category), or will you take it off depending on your activity? I've got some unheated tanzanite rough that is a pale pinkish-peach, but it's not the strong saturation you'd probably want, and well, it's tanzanite--thus the question about how durable an e-ring stone needs to be for you. If that sounds like something worth investigating, then hunt around the web for fancy tanzanite. You'll have to hunt hard (and pay for the rarity), but it's out there.

 

[LD]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Based on your video, that stone is highly unlikely to have classed as a Padparadscha as it's wholly pink. I couldn't detect any orange/peach at all. However, as I suspected the bow tie was very obvious ALTHOUGH in your photos, you've got the gem at an angle. Just for future reference you can't judge a coloured stone that way. You always judge it straight on without any tilt or angle. It was still a good idea to get it for a look though because if you hadn't, you'd have been wondering if that was "the one". Sorry it didn't work out but at least you have the fun of looking again.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Based on your video, that stone is highly unlikely to have classed as a Padparadscha as it's wholly pink. I couldn't detect any orange/peach at all. However, as I suspected the bow tie was very obvious ALTHOUGH in your photos, you've got the gem at an angle. Just for future reference you can't judge a coloured stone that way. You always judge it straight on without any tilt or angle. It was still a good idea to get it for a look though because if you hadn't, you'd have been wondering if that was "the one". Sorry it didn't work out but at least you have the fun of looking again.

And you are more informed than last time around. One pro of buying online is that you save a significant amount over retail jewelers. On con, as you're learning, is that it often takes some time of buying and returning before 1) you've seen enough to know what you want, and 2) you find "the one." It doesn't make this process any more pleasant, but we've all been there.

 

[T L]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

I liked, but didn't love it. And with an engagement ring, I've got to love it.

You did the right thing then in returning it.

I personally don't like 99% of the padparadschas I see out there, but when there is a nice one, they're very beautiful. Although some thought this stone was more of a pure pink, I've seen stones advertised and with lab reports indicating they're padparadschas with that same color. I don't understand how they classify these stones sometimes. For example, I have a screen shot of three stones with one being a totally different hue, all labeled as padparadschas by major labs.

Maybe just expand your search to look specifically for pink sapphires alone then, and maybe you'll find one with a hue you like.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

OP: you're nott looking for pure pink, correct?

 

[Gallant]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Since you did mention you were willing to spend more for better stone, I'd recommend a precision-cut stone. It will outperform any traditionally cut stone, especially in regards to windowing and the bowtie effect. You'll also get a better polish, which means a sparkly stone will sparkle more. Yeah, I'm a cutter, so take that advice with a grain of salt, but our stuff looks better for a reason

Yeah, precision cut or even concave cut. I've been looking at those, but I think I'd have to lower the size of the stone to afford one. But I would prefer one of those cuts over a native cut for sure.

As others have mentioned, there will be some degree of bowtie in most oval cuts, and a higher length-to-width ratio (i.e., longer and skinnier) will come with a more pronounced bowtie. So, given the hand-in-hand nature of bowties & ovals, you need to decide which is worth more to you: oval shape, or absolutely no bowtie?

I agree, and after this experience and recognizing that most ovals have this issue, I think I'm more open to rectangle cushions.

As for stone species recommendations, the two natural ones that always come to mind for non-diamond e-rings are corundum (sapph/ruby) and spinel. As you slide further down the hardness scale, the value proposition is one of '4 Cs' vs. durability. Do you work with your hands a lot? Will you never remove the ring (many guys are in this category), or will you take it off depending on your activity? I've got some unheated tanzanite rough that is a pale pinkish-peach, but it's not the strong saturation you'd probably want, and well, it's tanzanite--thus the question about how durable an e-ring stone needs to be for you. If that sounds like something worth investigating, then hunt around the web for fancy tanzanite. You'll have to hunt hard (and pay for the rarity), but it's out there.

I'm pretty hard-set on a sapphire. Spinels are beautiful, and they have a lot of history. I like tanzanite too. But I'm going to stick with a sapphire. Thanks for your recommendations though.

 

[Gallant]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

Based on your video, that stone is highly unlikely to have classed as a Padparadscha as it's wholly pink. I couldn't detect any orange/peach at all. However, as I suspected the bow tie was very obvious ALTHOUGH in your photos, you've got the gem at an angle. Just for future reference you can't judge a coloured stone that way. You always judge it straight on without any tilt or angle. It was still a good idea to get it for a look though because if you hadn't, you'd have been wondering if that was "the one". Sorry it didn't work out but at least you have the fun of looking again.

You're right. I never saw any orange either. Well actually, the only time I saw it was when I used a flash

 

[Gallant]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

You did the right thing then in returning it.

I personally don't like 99% of the padparadschas I see out there, but when there is a nice one, they're very beautiful. Although some thought this stone was more of a pure pink, I've seen stones advertised and with lab reports indicating they're padparadschas with that same color. I don't understand how they classify these stones sometimes. For example, I have a screen shot of three stones with one being a totally different hue, all labeled as padparadschas by major labs.

Maybe just expand your search to look specifically for pink sapphires alone then, and maybe you'll find one with a hue you like.

OP: you're nott looking for pure pink, correct?

Well originally I was drawn to the original stone because of the splashes of orange within the pink. And I'm still drawn to that type of coloration, like this one:



(Too bad about the huge window and that very visible inclusion in the middle)

But because that coloration is so rare, I'm willing to look at evenly colored pinkish-orangish-salmon stones.

But pure pink? No, I'm not interested.

 

[T L]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

You did the right thing then in returning it.

I personally don't like 99% of the padparadschas I see out there, but when there is a nice one, they're very beautiful. Although some thought this stone was more of a pure pink, I've seen stones advertised and with lab reports indicating they're padparadschas with that same color. I don't understand how they classify these stones sometimes. For example, I have a screen shot of three stones with one being a totally different hue, all labeled as padparadschas by major labs.

Maybe just expand your search to look specifically for pink sapphires alone then, and maybe you'll find one with a hue you like.

OP: you're nott looking for pure pink, correct?

Well originally I was drawn to the original stone because of the splashes of orange within the pink. And I'm still drawn to that type of coloration, like this one:



(Too bad about the huge window and that very visible inclusion in the middle)

But because that coloration is so rare, I'm willing to look at evenly colored pinkish-orangish-salmon stones.

But pure pink? No, I'm not interested.

I would still do a search on "pink sapphires" because I've actually seen padparadscha's or orangy pink sapphires, labelled as just "pink sapphire." It will just help you increase your search.

 

[Marlow]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

I think, TL gave you a very good advice to try a nice "pad" colored spinel.

If you are picky with inclusion, window et cetera you will have a problem with your "low" budget to find a true and nice padparadscha.

So find a nice spinel - your budget is perfect for that.

 

[MJ_Mac]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

I know you have your heart set on a sapphire but I agree with Marlow, a beautifully cut spinel would be gorgeous. Just thought I'd throw this one out there. It's a fairly new listing by Gemfix. It meets your budget and size requirement and it's cut is very nice (cut by Andrew). It's spinel number 350, middle picture in the second row. http://www.gemfix.com/spinel.html

 

[Marlow]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

I know you have your heart set on a sapphire but I agree with Marlow, a beautifully cut spinel would be gorgeous. Just thought I'd throw this one out there. It's a fairly new listing by Gemfix. It meets your budget and size requirement and it's cut is very nice (cut by Andrew). It's spinel number 350, middle picture in the second row. http://www.gemfix.com/spinel.html

Excellent gem!!! Vietnam produces extremely nice pad colored spinel!!

Look at the last picture!

http://www.gem-passion.com/spinel-in-the-mist

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Found sapphire for E-Ring & need your opinion before I b

I know you have your heart set on a sapphire but I agree with Marlow, a beautifully cut spinel would be gorgeous. Just thought I'd throw this one out there. It's a fairly new listing by Gemfix. It meets your budget and size requirement and it's cut is very nice (cut by Andrew). It's spinel number 350, middle picture in the second row. http://www.gemfix.com/spinel.html

That is a very pretty spinel.