Friendship ending?

[HGar]

The fact that my friend wants to message me during happy hour when she may be aggressive and abusive speaks volumes. Our contact is very little otherwise. That's not a healthy friendship.

I forgot my rule. Was anxious and we got texting. She got sharp and I got defensive.

I totally get that, but you also quoted the above so there lays some responsibility on your behalf.

I’m pretty introspective - whenever I raise my voice at my husband or kids, say a harsh word to a family member I can guarantee it was more often then not something inside of me that caused it. I might say “oh you blah blah blah” but again more often then not it is another worry in my mind that led to this reaction.

Just saying that sometimes soul searching leads us to finding that some percentage of fault is our own, not always but sometimes.

And yes, sometimes friendships cannot be saved. In 53yrs I’ve ended 2 deliberately - one for moral reasons, one for consistent toxic behaviour that I thought would not happen between us but the pattern was repeating. Only you and your friend know the truth and can make that decision.

 

[Begonia]

I totally get that, but you also quoted the above so there lays some responsibility on your behalf.

I’m pretty introspective - whenever I raise my voice at my husband or kids, say a harsh word to a family member I can guarantee it was more often then not something inside of me that caused it. I might say “oh you blah blah blah” but again more often then not it is another worry in my mind that led to this reaction.

Just saying that sometimes soul searching leads us to finding that some percentage of fault is our own, not always but sometimes.

And yes, sometimes friendships cannot be saved. In 53yrs I’ve ended 2 deliberately - one for moral reasons, one for consistent toxic behaviour that I thought would not happen between us but the pattern was repeating. Only you and your friend know the truth and can make that decision.

I'm not following you and frankly I don't think I care to.

I own my behavior in setting a boundary that night against what has been a pattern of behaviour from her that makes me uncomfortable and feels toxic. I proudly own that behavior and that responsibility.
Blaming or using emotional threats for my reaction to her disrespect feels manipulative.

Thanks everyone. Taking a pain pill and heading to bed.

 

[mrs-b]

Hi Begonia -

I'll freely admit I'm a friend snob. My friends are wonderful, supportive, long term, and I don't let people into that category of my life easily. I've always said that once I've consistently been friends with a person for 10 years, I probably always will be. Up till then, however - we'll see.

Most people, for me, fall into the category that I refer to as "friendly acquaintances". Someone I've met at the bridge club once a week for 2 years? Friendly acquaintance. People from church? Friendly acquaintances. To become a true friend - a designation I consider sacred - the bar is high. And I set that bar - both for them AND for me.

So the other person in the exchange you related, for me, would not be someone I'd consider a friend. Someone who is "mostly supportive", who will willingly weaponize the relationship and use their closeness to me, and my exposed heart, as a way to hurt me by threatening - more than once - to withdraw themselves from me as a form of PUNISHMENT for behavior they disliked? Uh - sorry - no.

People seem to set such a low bar for friendship. But for me, it's easier to stay married than to stay genuinely friends. There are no external ties - like kids and legal documents - holding you together, just a genuine commitment to each other's well being. A perpetual, healthy joy in each other's company. A love that's not predicated on self interest or self advancement. Loyalty. Laughter. Support.

From what I can see of your friend, she's not trying to get you to end the relationship - and I suspect she'll probably be shocked when YOU do. Obviously my knowledge of this is minimal, but from what you've recounted, she sounds more like a bully who's jockeying for dominance. Are you in general a fairly peace loving, submissive kind of person? Because I wonder if she's the kind of person who has seen an opportunity in someone like you just to flex their muscles and stomp all over you and who believes, deep down, that it's her right to lead and control? Sometimes "in vino veritas" - and her behavior when sloshed may simply be a reflection of who she truly is.

But REGARDLESS of that - a friend who used my love for them as a way of inducing fear that I may lose what I value is no friend at all. And snapping at me while drinking would get old REALLY fast.

So I'm going to share something with you that's very personal, but it might give you a comparative benchmark. Please treat this gently and with respect.

My BFF of 47 years is adopted. Both her biological parents AND her adoptive parents were alcoholics. All 4 of them. As a result, my BFF has had to work hard to resist tendencies towards substance dependency all her life. In general, she's done an outstanding job. Some time back, however, despite having reached a place where she had decided to no longer drink in public at all anymore, she went out to a get-together, had a few drinks, and then had an exchange with me that was snappy, self-entitled and very misled. I didn't hear from her after that for 2 days, as I was deeply hurt and just couldn't bring myself to call her. On the third day, I called her and her first words were a heartfelt apology - and I mean *really* heartfelt - which she ended by saying to me - "I've joined AA." Causing me pain was sufficient reason to her to make a major change - both in her behavior and in how she saw herself. On the other hand, there is nothing she could do to lose my friendship, having become one of the major pillars in my life, and given that I know her heart, and how any sort of hurtful behavior would be due to something with which she needed help, not alienation. So that's true friendship - on both sides.

As you may know, I've had a very bad back for many years and underwent major back surgery for the second time around 16 months ago. My BFF got on a plane (she's in Australia, I'm in the US on the east coast), took all her vacation and then some, and came out and walked me through it for 8 weeks. She cleaned my house, made my meals, and walked my dogs till I was on the other side of one of the most difficult times of my life. Not once did she snap at me, threaten to no longer be my friend or suggest a time out. Had she done any of those things, I could only have assumed she'd been inhabited by aliens.

Be a great friend, Begonia. Make sure what you offer is totally top shelf. But expect the same in return. What this lady has been giving you is not it but, rather, damaging and unhealthy. Were it me, no question, I'd be out.

I wish you joy and genuine wellness in all areas of your life.

 

[Bonfire]

I had a friend (emphasis had) that sounds similar, including the alcoholism. There was a ‘power’ imbalance to our relationship. I slowly withdrew, it helped that my job kept me busy. The friendship was toxic and I am so much happier to have her out of my life.
We do learn from these people though begonia. Be true to who you are, it’s worth being selective. Friends should make us feel good and happy not diminished. I’ve learned to choose my friends not let them choose me.
Wishing you the best!

 

[Begonia]

Hi Begonia -

I'll freely admit I'm a friend snob. My friends are wonderful, supportive, long term, and I don't let people into that category of my life easily. I've always said that once I've consistently been friends with a person for 10 years, I probably always will be. Up till then, however - we'll see.

Most people, for me, fall into the category that I refer to as "friendly acquaintances". Someone I've met at the bridge club once a week for 2 years? Friendly acquaintance. People from church? Friendly acquaintances. To become a true friend - a designation I consider sacred - the bar is high. And I set that bar - both for them AND for me.

So the other person in the exchange you related, for me, would not be someone I'd consider a friend. Someone who is "mostly supportive", who will willingly weaponize the relationship and use their closeness to me, and my exposed heart, as a way to hurt me by threatening - more than once - to withdraw themselves from me as a form of PUNISHMENT for behavior they disliked? Uh - sorry - no.

People seem to set such a low bar for friendship. But for me, it's easier to stay married than to stay genuinely friends. There are no external ties - like kids and legal documents - holding you together, just a genuine commitment to each other's well being. A perpetual, healthy joy in each other's company. A love that's not predicated on self interest or self advancement. Loyalty. Laughter. Support.

From what I can see of your friend, she's not trying to get you to end the relationship - and I suspect she'll probably be shocked when YOU do. Obviously my knowledge of this is minimal, but from what you've recounted, she sounds more like a bully who's jockeying for dominance. Are you in general a fairly peace loving, submissive kind of person? Because I wonder if she's the kind of person who has seen an opportunity in someone like you just to flex their muscles and stomp all over you and who believes, deep down, that it's her right to lead and control? Sometimes "in vino veritas" - and her behavior when sloshed may simply be a reflection of who she truly is.

But REGARDLESS of that - a friend who used my love for them as a way of inducing fear that I may lose what I value is no friend at all. And snapping at me while drinking would get old REALLY fast.

So I'm going to share something with you that's very personal, but it might give you a comparative benchmark. Please treat this gently and with respect.

My BFF of 47 years is adopted. Both her biological parents AND her adoptive parents were alcoholics. All 4 of them. As a result, my BFF has had to work hard to resist tendencies towards substance dependency all her life. In general, she's done an outstanding job. Some time back, however, despite having reached a place where she had decided to no longer drink in public at all anymore, she went out to a get-together, had a few drinks, and then had an exchange with me that was snappy, self-entitled and very misled. I didn't hear from her after that for 2 days, as I was deeply hurt and just couldn't bring myself to call her. On the third day, I called her and her first words were a heartfelt apology - and I mean *really* heartfelt - which she ended by saying to me - "I've joined AA." Causing me pain was sufficient reason to her to make a major change - both in her behavior and in how she saw herself. On the other hand, there is nothing she could do to lose my friendship, having become one of the major pillars in my life, and given that I know her heart, and how any sort of hurtful behavior would be due to something with which she needed help, not alienation. So that's true friendship - on both sides.

As you may know, I've had a very bad back for many years and underwent major back surgery for the second time around 16 months ago. My BFF got on a plane (she's in Australia, I'm in the US on the east coast), took all her vacation and then some, and came out and walked me through it for 8 weeks. She cleaned my house, made my meals, and walked my dogs till I was on the other side of one of the most difficult times of my life. Not once did she snap at me, threaten to no longer be my friend or suggest a time out. Had she done any of those things, I could only have assumed she'd been inhabited by aliens.

Be a great friend, Begonia. Make sure what you offer is totally top shelf. But expect the same in return. What this lady has been giving you is not it but, rather, damaging and unhealthy. Were it me, no question, I'd be out.

I wish you joy and genuine wellness in all areas of your life.

Thank you for all of that - every last word. Every. Dang. Word. I find it hard to relate what is happening with this friend but you guessed it. All of it.

I am a peace loving, submissive person who has done tremendous work to learn to develop boundaries. It's hard for me, but not impossible. For example, I found the ignore button on PS last night. Peace at all costs.

Ok. O k a y. My words are leaving me again, or there is possibly nothing left to say. I'll ponder your heartfelt words @Mrs - b for the meaning and deeper meaning they contain.

Thank you for that. Truly.

 

[Begonia]

I had a friend (emphasis had) that sounds similar, including the alcoholism. There was a ‘power’ imbalance to our relationship. I slowly withdrew, it helped that my job kept me busy. The friendship was toxic and I am so much happier to have her out of my life.
We do learn from these people though begonia. Be true to who you are, it’s worth being selective. Friends should make us feel good and happy not diminished. I’ve learned to choose my friends not let them choose me.
Wishing you the best!

There is a power imbalance in many ways, including a financial one. We have a hard time relating (at times) as she is more financially blessed than myself. It's... awkward.

Your words resonate with me @Bonfire! Choose my friends, don't let them choose me. I find it interesting that this is happening as I set boundaries, the conflict increases to this point.

I have learned a lot, you're so right, including how to shut the door softly.

Thank you for this.

 

[MissGotRocks]

True friends don’t threaten to leave the relationship over small things. While we all know lots of people, very close and special friends are usually limited in number. I am sorry that her words keep upsetting you; knowing when to let go of something for our own good is a core value that is important to our well being. When it doesn’t feel right, trust your gut instinct to just step away from the situation.

 

[Begonia]

True friends don’t threaten to leave the relationship over small things. While we all know lots of people, very close and special friends are usually limited in number. I am sorry that her words keep upsetting you; knowing when to let go of something for our own good is a core value that is important to our well being. When it doesn’t feel right, trust your gut instinct to just step away from the situation.

Right??? That wasn't my first red flag but it was a big one.

This thread has been so helpful to realize that further. I have a tendency to trod on even when my gut is trying to tell me something. I feel like my body is trying to get my attention with the myriad of ways I keep having health issues.

Close friends are indeed hard to come by. I'm stepping away from this one. I feel so sad and yet relieved.

 

[ExplorePS]

I read through some the replies here. Such great wisdom and those who are able to describe questions/thoughts/points so much better than I.

For lack of better words, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry that you are in this situation and hope that the next steps are clear. We've all be in situations where we have to chose when to "pass on" and when to "fight on regardless of what we might gain."

From my own personal experience, I've had friends treat me better than some family members and vice versa. Every situation is different because each person is different along with values and goals desired out of the relationship. Hope the next path is clear and may the both of you ladies come to a general consensus of an ending, whether it is to remain friends or part ways.

 

[Begonia]

I read through some the replies here. Such great wisdom and those who are able to describe questions/thoughts/points so much better than I.

For lack of better words, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry that you are in this situation and hope that the next steps are clear. We've all be in situations where we have to chose when to "pass on" and when to "fight on regardless of what we might gain."

From my own personal experience, I've had friends treat me better than some family members and vice versa. Every situation is different because each person is different along with values and goals desired out of the relationship. Hope the next path is clear and may the both of you ladies come to a general consensus of an ending, whether it is to remain friends or part ways.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Such a journey of discovery this has been for me, from the wisdom of my peers. I hold that dear to me when women and men can come together and guide someone thru the rapids.
Not everyone has their own tribe to turn to and I'm thankful you've all been a safe place for m e to turn to.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Right??? That wasn't my first red flag but it was a big one.

This thread has been so helpful to realize that further. I have a tendency to trod on even when my gut is trying to tell me something. I feel like my body is trying to get my attention with the myriad of ways I keep having health issues.

Close friends are indeed hard to come by. I'm stepping away from this one. I feel so sad and yet relieved.

This, this this! I'm so excited that you recognized the health issues and toxicity. I've just finished reading a book recommended to me by my very bright daughter-in-law. I was having off and on issues with my back and I finally finished the book, (a best seller) two days ago. I had my doubts about some of the information but it all made much sense with my back issues. Guess what, the pain has subsided and I'm doing much better. The book is: Healing Back Pain, author John Sarino, MD.

I have a feeling this friend and your pain have a direct correlation but you'll have to decide that, obviously. Good luck, I hope this helps and feel better quickly.

 

[Begonia]

This, this this! I'm so excited that you recognized the health issues and toxicity. I've just finished reading a book recommended to me by my very bright daughter-in-law. I was having off and on issues with my back and I finally finished the book, (a best seller) two days ago. I had my doubts about some of the information but it all made much sense with my back issues. Guess what, the pain has subsided and I'm doing much better. The book is: Healing Back Pain, author John Sarino, MD.

I have a feeling this friend and your pain have a direct correlation but you'll have to decide that, obviously. Good luck, I hope this helps and feel better quickly.

Hey!

That book is a cherished place on my nightstand!! I'm a poster child for what he describes.

I'd also like to read further about this by the author Gabor Mate. He talks about the connection between your health and past trauma.

Good catch there!

 

[monarch64]

I ditched a longtime friend a couple months ago. She always needed a lot of attention and a lot of reassurance (she would ask me if I was mad at her if we hadn’t spoken for a few weeks). That’s fine, but asking if I was mad at her reminded me of 6th grade. She has had some health issues and took up smoking marijuana to help with those. It hasn’t helped but it has turned her into someone I don’t enjoy talking with or being around.

One day I called to share some info with her about one of our mutual friends and she started screaming at me. It shocked me so much that I hung up and blocked her on my phone and on socials. Haven’t spoken to her since and don’t care to ever again. I’m a Taurus and once you’re out of my life there is no coming back. She was more trouble than she was worth and I’m sure she has other friends she can lay all of her problems on and seek advice from. Sometimes you gotta just let go.

 

[Begonia]

I ditched a longtime friend a couple months ago. She always needed a lot of attention and a lot of reassurance (she would ask me if I was mad at her if we hadn’t spoken for a few weeks). That’s fine, but asking if I was mad at her reminded me of 6th grade. She has had some health issues and took up smoking marijuana to help with those. It hasn’t helped but it has turned her into someone I don’t enjoy talking with or being around.

One day I called to share some info with her about one of our mutual friends and she started screaming at me. It shocked me so much that I hung up and blocked her on my phone and on socials. Haven’t spoken to her since and don’t care to ever again. I’m a Taurus and once you’re out of my life there is no coming back. She was more trouble than she was worth and I’m sure she has other friends she can lay all of her problems on and seek advice from. Sometimes you gotta just let go.

I'm a Taurus too, along with being an INFJ. The INFJ door slam is very real altho I haven't used it in years. I've adapted it with help from @Daisys and Diamonds. It's gentler now LOL.

Good riddance @monarch64

 

[monarch64]

I'm a Taurus too, along with being an INFJ. The INFJ door slam is very real altho I haven't used it in years. I've adapted it with help from @Daisys and Diamonds. It's gentler now LOL.

Good riddance @monarch64

Oh wow, I am also INFJ! We are rare, but it seems like we end up in the same spaces online probably due to some of our tendencies/traits. Good for you for closing the door instead of slamming it. I fear I have not evolved that much yet. lol

 

[MissGotRocks]

Right??? That wasn't my first red flag but it was a big one.

This thread has been so helpful to realize that further. I have a tendency to trod on even when my gut is trying to tell me something. I feel like my body is trying to get my attention with the myriad of ways I keep having health issues.

Close friends are indeed hard to come by. I'm stepping away from this one. I feel so sad and yet relieved.

You clearly have a good heart and hate to lose people in your life. I think one of the benefits of growing older is that we begin to understand that we can’t save all situations. Being mistreated by someone is simply not acceptable though, and no one needs to tolerate that sort of thing. These situations can be damaging to us in ways we would not have thought. The good news is that while this friendship didn’t work out well, that doesn’t mean that other friends can’t be on your horizon. Learning to love and value yourself is very important to your well being.

 

[Begonia]

You clearly have a good heart and hate to lose people in your life. I think one of the benefits of growing older is that we begin to understand that we can’t save all situations. Being mistreated by someone is simply not acceptable though, and no one needs to tolerate that sort of thing. These situations can be damaging to us in ways we would not have thought. The good news is that while this friendship didn’t work out well, that doesn’t mean that other friends can’t be on your horizon. Learning to love and value yourself is very important to your well being.

Amen sister.
Well put.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I ditched a longtime friend a couple months ago. She always needed a lot of attention and a lot of reassurance (she would ask me if I was mad at her if we hadn’t spoken for a few weeks). That’s fine, but asking if I was mad at her reminded me of 6th grade. She has had some health issues and took up smoking marijuana to help with those. It hasn’t helped but it has turned her into someone I don’t enjoy talking with or being around.

One day I called to share some info with her about one of our mutual friends and she started screaming at me. It shocked me so much that I hung up and blocked her on my phone and on socials. Haven’t spoken to her since and don’t care to ever again. I’m a Taurus and once you’re out of my life there is no coming back. She was more trouble than she was worth and I’m sure she has other friends she can lay all of her problems on and seek advice from. Sometimes you gotta just let go.

Good lord -who needs that kind of crazy in their life ?

i do not do yelling in any capaasity, which has been hard for me as my mother's family all sreamed and yelled their love to each other, it has taken me years to realize this is what they were doing all that time i was covering my ears

 

[canuk-gal]

Good lord -who needs that kind of crazy in their life ?

i do not do yelling in any capaasity, which has been hard for me as my mother's family all sreamed and yelled their love to each other, it has taken me years to realize this is what they were doing all that time i was covering my ears

what's the old adage? With friends like this who needs enemies.....

 

[Austina]

All I’m going to say about this, is that a friend is there for you NO MATTER WHAT.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

It sounds like a few of us are friends with substance abusers and those friends’ mental health has spiraled down as anyone would expect. Their behavior becomes abusive.

I would distance without officially “divorcing.” I have seen alcoholics recover. Sadly you might have to refuse to be around them until they do recover, and they rarely do. But a few do.

If you end the friendship now that is totally understandable. But if you are feeling up to it, you might say, “You have always been mean when you are drunk. Now you are getting mean when you are sober. Call me when you have given up drinking.” They might snap or even say the friendship is over but that way you protect yourself while still making room for hope. Keep your promise to yourself and to them for however long it takes, whether that means never talking again, or maybe someday reconciling.