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style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 667px">Date: 3/24/2006 1:02:31 PM
Author: anchor31

Date: 3/24/2006 12:23:15 PM
Author: samkongado
So once again to recap: I was not jerking her around and messing with her head. I loved her and thought that reassuring her by telling her I wanted to spend my life with her would settle her enough to give me time to plan a great proposal. Evidently it didn''t. I''m not mad, just a little sad.
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A lot of men want to spend the rest of their lives with a woman they love but never marry her... What your girlfriend wanted to know is that you intended on respecting her wishes and marrying her, but you never answered her. I don''t think you should have expected her to move in with you before being engaged when she wasn''t comfortable with it (and I can undertand her, I wouldn''t be either) and then not get angry after a year because all she could ever get out of you was that you wanted to spend your life with her, which doesn''t mean you want to marry her at all... Good for her for standing her ground! She obviously is a strong woman who goes for what she wants, and if you love her and truly want to marry her, get a move on, take her somewhere romantic, and propose.

Telling her you do intend to marry her wouldn''t have ruined the surprise, far from it. My boyfriend told me this a little over a year ago, and I don''t think he''s going to propose in another couple of months at least. He told me because I asked; I was looking for a man who had the same views and values than I have concerning marriage and I wanted to make sure that he did. Talking about marriage isn''t proposing, and I strongly believe it''s a decision that should be taken by two people and discussed before the proposal. It doesn''t take the magic away... In fact it makes it even more special, because then you know that you are entering this new step in your life as a shared, thought through decision.

A few months ago my boyfriend started giving me mixed signals about proposing, talking as though he''d do it tomorrow and then as if he wouldn''t do it for another six years. It drove me insane so one day I asked him about his intentions. I know he''s going to propose in 2006, but I don''t know where, when or how. I''d say that''s surprise enough!! I''m also picking out my own ring because that''s something I''ve always wanted to do. I told him, and he respects that. The ''dream surprise completely unexpected proposal every girl dreams of'' is a bit of a myth. Not every girl has the same dream proposal. I wouldn''t have wanted my boyfriend to propose if we hadn''t discussed the subject before, and as I said, choosing my ring was always very important for me.

My boyfriend and I might not get the penultimate fantasy proposal we see in movies, but it is our dream proposal, and we''re so happy and excited! He talks about it all the time now and tells everyone!! It''s a wonderful time in our relationship, really. And I still get to wait not so patiently, and wonder how/where/when he''s going to do it!

I must add that in all honesty, I personally believe you should have respected her wishes in the first place, and if you weren''t ready to propose last year, then you shouldn''t have asked her to move in with you.
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Just to be clear, I didn''t ask her or pressure her to move in with me. We mutually decided a move to a new city was the best thing for us, and we discussed the possibilities of living together or separate. I told her that I would love to have her live with me but it was totally her choice. In the end she chose to move in with me, which I was happy about.

Also, thank you to everyone who has given me your opinion so far!
 
You seem like a great guy who asked for opinions and considered those offered to you, I know you will find a way to make this right for you and your GF! Best of luck to you
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Okay, I''m sorry if that sounded harsh, and I take back my first ''totally.'' I think it was slightly her fault too for not asking directly about Sam''s marital intentions before she got so frustrated she was considering leaving him. This is at least partly a communication problem.
 
Date: 3/24/2006 1:47:23 PM
Author: samkongado

Just to be clear, I didn''t ask her or pressure her to move in with me. We mutually decided a move to a new city was the best thing for us, and we discussed the possibilities of living together or separate. I told her that I would love to have her live with me but it was totally her choice. In the end she chose to move in with me, which I was happy about.

Also, thank you to everyone who has given me your opinion so far!
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True, she moved in with you of her own free will. But she was up front with the fact that she didn''t LIKE this situation, and would rather be engaged. It''s been a year, and nothing has happened, nor have you even mentioned to her the possibility that plans were in motion, or that you were ready to take the next step. She had every right to do what she did. I know you are sad the surprise is ruined, but I honestly don''t understand why men have to make a proposal this HUGE surprise that the woman knows nothing about. What is romantic about it is the way it is done, not the fact that the woman was knocked over the head with shock.

In waiting this long and keeping it such a secret, you kinda brought the situation somewhat on yourself. You did put a plan in motion, but it was not executed before she had come to her breaking point. Too bad. I would continue on with your plan, do it soon, and make it a romantic evening. Do not, as someone else suggested, wait 2 months just to see if she sticks around. I think she''s waited PLENTY long enough, and has sacrificed things that she wanted (to be engaged before living together) long enough.
 
Date: 3/24/2006 2:01:33 PM
Author: FireGoddess
I honestly don''t understand why men have to make a proposal this HUGE surprise that the woman knows nothing about. What is romantic about it is the way it is done, not the fact that the woman was knocked over the head with shock.
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MwahhhHAHAHAH! Oh I can''t breathe! "Me: Caveman. You: Wife." WACK! THUMP! (draggggg)
I completely agree. This is why open communication is SO important. So we don''t live in our own different fairy tale worlds of romantic expecations.
 
Sam,

One more quick thing ... you say you''ve "always wanted" to suprise her with a proposal. Now you won''t get that. (I''d argue - that you really still can ...but)

Think about this:

She''s ALWAYS WANTED

1) to be engaged before moving in with someone

2) to have a guy be tripping over himself he''s so eager to marry her, not dragging his feet.

3) to be able to assure her inner critic & her friends that you do indeed want & value marraige, especially to her.

She hasn''t gotten any of these things SHE''S wanted either.

Deco
 
Date: 3/24/2006 2:20:38 PM
Author: decodelighted
Sam,

One more quick thing ... you say you''ve ''always wanted'' to suprise her with a proposal. Now you won''t get that. (I''d argue - that you really still can ...but)

Think about this:

She''s ALWAYS WANTED

1) to be engaged before moving in with someone

2) to have a guy be tripping over himself he''s so eager to marry her, not dragging his feet.

3) to be able to assure her inner critic & her friends that you do indeed want & value marraige, especially to her.

She hasn''t gotten any of these things SHE''S wanted either.

Deco
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People have to take responsibility for personal choices--if she wanted to be engaged before moving in with someone then she shouldn''t have moved in with him. He didn''t force her, it was her own decision--so it is her own fault if she is unhappy about that aspect of the situation.
 
Date: 3/24/2006 2:43:24 PM
Author: luthergirl

People have to take responsibility for personal choices--if she wanted to be engaged before moving in with someone then she shouldn''t have moved in with him. He didn''t force her, it was her own decision--so it is her own fault if she is unhappy about that aspect of the situation.
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There are 2 people in this relationship who are equally at fault...she is not totally to blame for her unhappiness.

You''re right, she should not have moved in with him...but her love for him and possibly a little pressure might have caused it. She voiced her opinon of moving in with him without being engaged, she made the ''scarifice'' for him to move in before she wanted to. He could have made a ''scarifice'' for her and been more proactive about proposing. Or at the very least made her feel more comfortable that it WILL happen, not just hint around.
 
I think we are missing the point that he IS buying her a ring and asking her to marry him. He wanted it to be special for the woman he loves, im sure is breaking his butt to buy a nice ring.... whenever any newly engaged woman tells her proposal story everyone comments and how thoughtful and wonderful her man is... but THIS guy is being beaten like pinata! because he didnt tell his girl EXACTLY when she was being proposed too. lol

No she shouldnt have moved in if she felt that strongly about it.
 
Ladies, Ladies...

Sam wants to propose to his girlfriend, he is remorseful that his inability to make the decision sooner has caused her to be unhappy, and he isn''t sad that the surprise has been ruined for selfish reasons... but because he wanted to surprise her and make her happy...

We are all "Ladies in Waiting", well, most of us anyway... therefore this hits all too close to home for many, and I think, in some cases, an ounce of frustration is being projected (and misplaced) here...

From my own experience, I can say that I was not as afraid that my BF would never propose to me as I was of him proposing despite not being completely ready to do so. We cannot crucify someone we do not know for being cautious (perhaps a bit too cautious) about the decision to marry... Was it not just yesterday that we were all preaching how X number of months is too soon to be talking about an engagement and planning the rest of your life together?

Fact is that there are no equations or algorithms that can be used to determine when the right time is. It is HIS RIGHT not to propose to her until he is ready, and it is HER RIGHT to leave if she wishes. Timing, as was previously examined in another thread, is about two people being able to synchronize their lives to each other. Sometimes this is impossible even for a couple who are otherwise perfect for each other - it doesn''t mean it''s any single person''s fault.

In this case, it sounds like we are talking about two people who very much want to spend their lives together and who, very nearly, missed the boat. Fortunately for them, however, the boat hasn''t sailed yet...

...and so, once again, Sam... focus on the proposal, focus on making it memorable, and focus on being happy with your future wife.
 
I think Sam is doing a great job asking for opinions and then listening to them without getting overly defensive. That bodes really well for his future happiness with his girl--and for hers. So if this started with a communication problem, maybe it will end with excellent communication.

Congratulations on having found the girl of your dreams, Sam, however long it took you to discover that you had.
 
"So I''d love to hear any feedback or comments, or suggestions of anything I should do- from a female point of view."

and that''s what we''re doing..

he asked... we''re giving it :)
 
I want to reiterate my point, because I am not attacking Sam in any way (nor do I think anyone believes I am) - but to simplify - he is sad the ''surprise'' is ruined. Right? He said he''s not mad, but sad. And I do believe that both of them are to blame for that. Him for the plan not being carried out before her breaking point, and her for reaching her breaking point.

My point is to get over the loss of the surprise - the point is to make it romantic, make it memorable, and get on with it! In the grand scheme of your lives the kink in the plan is not going to be a huge thing. What will remain is the memory of the proposal itself. Which is hopefully coming soon.
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Date: 3/24/2006 2:16:29 PM
Author: decodelighted
Date: 3/24/2006 2:01:33 PM

Author: FireGoddess

I honestly don''t understand why men have to make a proposal this HUGE surprise that the woman knows nothing about. What is romantic about it is the way it is done, not the fact that the woman was knocked over the head with shock.
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MwahhhHAHAHAH! Oh I can''t breathe! ''Me: Caveman. You: Wife.'' WACK! THUMP! (draggggg)

I completely agree. This is why open communication is SO important. So we don''t live in our own different fairy tale worlds of romantic expecations.
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LMAO! This can be so true....people forget that surpises are not always good, or welcome, and are often about the person *giving* the surprise and not the one giving it. I finally got DB to admit that the surprise was mostly for HIM and he stopped acting all high and mighty about it.
 
Date: 3/24/2006 2:43:24 PM
Author: luthergirl
People have to take responsibility for personal choices--if she wanted to be engaged before moving in with someone then she shouldn''t have moved in with him. He didn''t force her, it was her own decision--so it is her own fault if she is unhappy about that aspect of the situation.
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I''m not a big "fault" layer. No accusing finger from me. We''re talking about a guy who is unhappy that he didn''t get to give the proposal of his dreams. I''m saying: yes. that''s sad. BUT. She didn''t get everything she wanted either. Relationships are full of compromises and putting the "other" first. She''s already compromised for his happiness - with that in mind it is, perhaps LESS tragic that he didn''t get exactly every little thing he wanted EITHER.
 
i soooooo would rather help pick out the ring, the stone and have the actual proposal be a surprise then be surprised by everything (and thru talking about this with my bf he knows that, and how important it is to me to be a part of this process - after all .. it takes two people).... most girls want to be involved in this process... i'm sure if you would have asked her, or if she has/had mentioned it to you, this whole situation could have been avoided....she would have known you are moving forward and you would still have your surprise in check.

by the way... i didn't realize you said this until i re-read your post:

"just a word of caution: be careful because you might end up pressing too hard and he'll have to do something he's not ready to do."

crap crap crap crap - cop out - crap crap crap - if YOU are not ready then TELL HER and she WON'T PRESS you.... it's that simple

that's all i've got to say about that
 
Don''t feel disappointed. She doesn''t know when, where, how, etc you will propose. I have several friends whose BFs did not mention the "M" word and it just makes them feel like they don''t know where they stand in the relationship. Its important that she knows that she has a future with you as husband and wife.

When my FI proposed, I knew it was coming soon, because I picked the stone and designed the ring, but after that I was in the dark. My birthday was on a Thursdsay and we had planned a trip for that weekend, so I thought he would propose then, b/c he was being so secretive about everything. But he totally surprised me and never thought he''d be able to. Instead he proposed the night before my b-day on Wednesday...I thought we were having our casual weekly mid-week dinner date, nothing out the ordinary, but he had on a suit, expensive champaigne, fancy dinner reservations, candles and rose petals everywhere. I remember him telling me a month before he was so worried that it wouldn''t be a surprise. I told him it didn''t need to be elaborate, but something that he put a lot of thought and effort into and was meaningful to us. And it was perfect.

So don''t get down on thinking you''ve spilled the beans. Be so happy that you get to spend the rest of your life with the woman you love and she that she also wants a future with you.
 
I''m probably repeating what others have said, but I feel like a lot of ladies need reassurance that they''re on the same page as far as marriage is concerned. It really helped me when my boyfriend said (a while ago) that he could really see marrying me one day, but he wasn''t ready to make that commitment yet.

I don''t think knowing that you two both want to get married is going to take the wind out of your sails when you go to propose. Knowing that you have the same long term goal is different than you asking her to marry you and her saying yes. In my mind, that''s when I would feel comfortable telling my family and friends that we''re engaged, planning the wedding, etc. For some means of an analogy (since guys and girls often have different perspectives on these topics), I see the difference of talking of marriage vs. proposing as the difference between agreeing that the two of you one day want to have kids, and the decision to actively start trying.

There are still multiple things that you can do to make the actual proposal a surprise. Others have mentioned some ideas. Another thing is that you can maybe act frustrated and tell her that you found the perfect ring and you want to order it, but it''s going to take them, say, a month to get it to you. Then she knows that you''re taking active steps but that it won''t be immediate. Then just propose according to your original time frame of 1-2 weeks.

I hope this helps!
 
Date: 3/24/2006 10:29:15 AM
Author:samkongado

And to all the ladies who are pressing their man in the same way, just a word of caution: be careful because you might end up pressing too hard and he''ll have to do something he''s not ready to do.

Thanks a lot to everyone...

-SG
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Gee...maybe you should have been careful aboutr asking her to move in with you when you knew she wanted to be engaged to do that. I''m not even anti-shacking up, but maybe you kinda ruined the whole "living together" thing because she wasn''t ready to. Don''t mean to sound harsh, there was just disappointment on both sides. Just do the proposal of your dreams in one or two weeks...that way it means you aren''t mad at her. Good luck! Please don''t wait more than her one month deadline.
 
Ladies, I honestly don't think this is about who's to blame or what they should have done about moving in, etc. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it's so important to place blame in this situation?? Why is 'whose fault it is' so important?

It's no one's "fault".....like many other aspects of a marriage, sometimes both parties aren't on the same page, and when that happens, communication needs to happen. It's not about fault, really.

I understand your disappointment, Sam, but it's just an unfortunate byproduct of being on a different page. It's not the end of the world, and it's a good experience to get through because married life is full of little disappointments. No two people think alike all the time, and we are bound to disappoint each other occasionally. It takes maturity and a desire to move in the same direction to overcome these disappointments.

Marriage is also filled with many unparalleled joys, too, and part of that is rising to the occasion. Don't lament for the huge grandiose gesture that didn't pan out. What's really important isn't the element of surprise; it's you asking her to marry you, and her saying yes. As long as those things happen, it will be magical.

You poor guys are so conditioned to think bigger is always better. It's not....sometimes a single flower that you picked by hand is much more meaningful than the huge bouquet. Gestures don't have to be huge to women to be meaningful. All she wants is for YOU to ask her to marry you....and when you do, believe me, her dreams will come true. That's way better than focusing on the element of surprise.
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You have a choice to make now. You can either dwell on that one disappointment, or you can choose to look at the big picture. She doesn't know anything about the ring. She has no idea precisely WHEN you'll propose. She has no idea how you'll propose. There is still *plenty* left to surprise her with if you consider the big picture. I know you'll make the right choice.
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I just got "cavemanned".

My BF was reading some of this thread, and then grabbed my pillow and said "Me caveman you wife" while gently hitting me on the head w/ the pillow. Now where''s the ring, BF?
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I have to admit I haven''t read all od the replies (although I love that you can use caveman as a verb now!!) Just reading the story, though, reminds me a lot of my now-fiancee (who has never officially proposed despite the fact that I''ve ordered the ring and we''ve booked ourwedding and honeymoon) and me. The exception is that he doesn''t understand why I need a proposal, but it''s because women cannot make any assumptions. You have to be very clear and tell us EXACTLY what you''re thnking. To a guy, "I want to spend the rest of my life with you and impregnate you with my babies" means marriage. To a woman, the only thing that means marriage is a ring accompanied by the words, "will you marry me?"

If you truly love her, nothing''s been spoiled. How can you be ust going through the motions when you''re talking about the person you intend to meld your life with? Just suprise her with how it happens and it will be special no matter what.
 
I just wanted to say thank you very much to all the ladies'' opinions that I''ve gotten here. You''ve been a big help and I appreciate it. I feel better now, not sad anymore and I''m very excited to finally purchase the ring and propose to my future wife!

Thanks!!!
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Date: 3/24/2006 11:31:10 AM
Author: glitterata
I think this is totally your fault. Five years is a long time. You knew she was uncomfortable living with you before being engaged. You were giving her mixed messages--you told her you weren''t ready to get engaged, but you wanted her to have your children. What does that mean to a woman? That you want her to have children with you out of wedlock? That you are trying to make her shut up and stop bugging you, but you don''t really intend to go through with marrying her? That you''re jerking her around?

You put your need to totally surprise her above her need to know your intentions for the future and be in a relationship with a status that didn''t make her miserable. Why is surprising her so important that it was worth making her miserable for months or years, so much so that she considered leaving you?

I think this fight is about control. You needed to be the one in control of whether you get married, when, and even when and whether she knows it''s going to happen. In order to be in control yourself, you let her feel like she had no say in her own life.

Eventually she decided to take control and change the situation she hated. She told you if you didn''t propose in a month, she would move out. Good for her. She took steps to get out of a situation she could no longer live with.

And you''re mad at her about the ruined surprise? You should be mad at yourself about it. If you had even taken a small step to make her less miserable, such as telling her you were shopping for a ring or proposing sooner, you could have had your precious surprise without torturing her to the point that she was considering leaving you.
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What she said...100%!
 
Date: 3/26/2006 2:13:46 PM
Author: samkongado
I just wanted to say thank you very much to all the ladies'' opinions that I''ve gotten here. You''ve been a big help and I appreciate it. I feel better now, not sad anymore and I''m very excited to finally purchase the ring and propose to my future wife!

Thanks!!!
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I am glad we were able to help. Sometimes our lives don''t go as we have planned and it is a shame when it is something so special like engagements, but what counts is NOW and THE FUTURE and you can still make the proposal special and memorable for both of you.

I wish you both all the best and don''t forget if you need any help with the ring, we love to assist!
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After reading this whole thread I felt like the issue here was that he was focusing on how the proposal would make him feel, and how he wanted it to go. He made assumptions and forget that sometimes it is best to ask first.
(Especially that bit about moving in that seemed like a veiled ultimatum to me…but perhaps that is not how it was seen by the parties involved.)
Sam I hope you find happiness with your lady, and that you both enjoy the proposal.
 
Glad to hear that Sam!
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Don''t forget to tell us all about the ring and the proposal!!
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Well I have a thread on Rocky Talky right now going about the diamond (the setting will be the WF sleek lines platinum cathedral solitaire). I''m still working on hammering out the details for the proposal but I think this thursday might be the day so I''ll make sure to keep you updated...
 
Please do keep us updated....can''t wait to hear about the ring...and the proposal!!
 
Just to play devil''s advocate here, but are you sure she wants a solitaire? Or, are you getting her a solitaire then letting her pick out the setting? Many ladies want to be involved in the ring shopping process so they get something they love. She may have been dreaming her whole life for a particular ring (whether it be diamond shape, solitaire vs side stones, etc) and she may be disappointed if she doesn''t get what she truly desires.

Take this from a gal that was completely surprised with a proposal but did not like the ring.
 
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