Further Thoughts on Dallas vs. Houston

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/6/2009 12:59:46 PM
Author: ChinaCat
AmberGretchen-


RE: Evacuating: I''ve been here for almost 2 years and haven''t ever evacuated. When Ike hit we were actually in California for the weekend so we missed it. My dog was back in Houston and I panicked- but luckily the owners stayed with the dogs and they were in the safest place. Our place didn''t even lose any power.


Point is, you learn when to take it seriously and when to just stay put. It''s not as bad as it seems, it just gets inconvenient. And if you live inside the Loop, just make sure you live in a place that doesn''t generally flood.


I have never done a GTG and am normally hesitant to do so, but I feel the Houston PS''ers should definitely get together and welcome you to Texas!


Btw, totally jealous that your company could possibly send you anywhere in the world for a year!!!!


ETA: Lauren, please keep us posted as to when your family''s restaurant is opening. I am always on the lookout for great new restaurants. We will definitely check it out! Though it sounds familiar, I might have read about it somewhere.

ChinaCat - what you say re: evacuating totally makes sense. Northern California is kind of like that with earthquakes. Most of them are so minor you hardly notice. We had a medium-sized one last year while I had some girlfriends over for dinner, and we barely batted an eye - it just isn''t a big deal the vast majority of the time. So I guess living in Houston you get to be the same about the hurricanes.

I''d be honored and touched if there was a PS GTG to welcome me and DH to Houston - we won''t know many people there (in either city actually), and it would be such a nice way to meet people and learn more about our new location.

 

[ChinaCat]

AG- Exactly. I lived in Southern Cal for 10 years and earthquakes were so not anything we ever worried about. All my family back in Texas asked me how I could stand it, didn''t it scare me? Nope. And while living in Dallas, I literally was driving home from work one night and was 1 minute ahead of a massive tornado. I could see it in my rearview mirror and was listening to the radio and it was saying now it''s at the intersection of x and y, as I had just crossed the intersection. THAT was frakking scary. But everywhere has something.

Except maybe Austin, come to think of it.

Excited for you and your new job. Let us know if/when you get here and get settled, and we''ll put together a welcome wagon for sure.

 

[purrfectpear]

I''ve never lived in Texas but I''ve traveled to both Houston and Dallas many times in the heat of summer. If there was a difference between them, my California skin didn''t notice. They were both hot as Hades and humid IMO.

So, based on that, and the fact that I need to be near an ocean, I''d vote for Houston for sure.

 

[VegasAngel]

I havent been to Texas. A friend of mine lives in the outskirts of Houston near Cypress?

Anyway, she loves living there, tells me she would never move back to Vegas. She was already used to heat but not the humidity which is killer I guess. After this past hurricane season she mentioned that when they say leave, she will be leaving

I agree you have to go with your gut. I''ve heard nothing but good things about both cities.

 

[oobiecoo]

Date: 2/6/2009 2:47:27 PM
Author: ChinaCat
AG- Exactly. I lived in Southern Cal for 10 years and earthquakes were so not anything we ever worried about. All my family back in Texas asked me how I could stand it, didn''t it scare me? Nope. And while living in Dallas, I literally was driving home from work one night and was 1 minute ahead of a massive tornado. I could see it in my rearview mirror and was listening to the radio and it was saying now it''s at the intersection of x and y, as I had just crossed the intersection. THAT was frakking scary. But everywhere has something.

Except maybe Austin, come to think of it.

Excited for you and your new job. Let us know if/when you get here and get settled, and we''ll put together a welcome wagon for sure.

The Austin area has hail storms

 

[ChinaCat]

oobie- True, but I kinda dig those.

And def not as scary as tornados and hurricanes and earthquakes, oh my!

Pear- Ummm, I guess technically Galveston is on the ocean, but it ain''t too pretty.

I am a total water freak and it doesn''t count in my book. I miss California. And yes, the humidity is hard to be believed until you actually experience it. It took me quite awhile to get used to it again. However, EVERYTHING is air conditioned here, so you can avoid it for the most part. Plus it''s good for your skin. That''s what I keep telling myself anyways.

But Amber, you will like it here, I promise. Texas is very unique, and while it isn''t California, it has it''s own charms.

 

[tlh]

Dallas over Houston, though Houston has a better job market... but my family that lives in TX LOVE AUSTIN... esp the younger active generation. Just a lively town!

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 2/6/2009 5:07:02 PM
Author: ChinaCat

Pear- Ummm, I guess technically Galveston is on the ocean, but it ain''t too pretty.

I am a total water freak and it doesn''t count in my book. I miss California. And yes, the humidity is hard to be believed until you actually experience it. It took me quite awhile to get used to it again. However, EVERYTHING is air conditioned here, so you can avoid it for the most part. Plus it''s good for your skin. That''s what I keep telling myself anyways.

But Amber, you will like it here, I promise. Texas is very unique, and while it isn''t California, it has it''s own charms.

Ditto. Galveston is disgusting. My biology professor told us horror stories about the chemicals in the fish too. Gross.

Here I go again, but.....Houston is just so flat and ugly (when you''re not in one of the manufactured "pretty" parts). It is going to be a huge difference from California no matter what. That''s part of the reason why I think Dallas might be better as well, but who knows! I know there are pretty parts of Texas (Austin, hill country) but Houston is NOT it.

 

[jcrow]

Date: 2/5/2009 7:48:32 PM
Author: AmberGretchen

Date: 2/4/2009 10:52:39 PM

Author: Gayletmom

Hi AG. Just wanted to second the move to go with your gut. My opinion is that you can''t go wrong with trusting your instincts. It may be that you can''t exactly quantify what you prefer about what place. Sometimes these things are intangible and hard to put down on paper so you have to go with what you feel. I live in New Orleans and it''s one of those places that many people visit once, get totally smitten and never leave. Objectively, though, it looks like a silly place to live.



My vote is for Houston b/c you''ll be that much closer to my home town which is a great place to visit!



Wishing you lots of luck. Deciding between two nice cities is, as my dh says, ''a high grade problem''.

Gayle - I''ve never been to New Orleans, but I''ve always wanted to go. I might have to see if I can get assigned to a project of some kind there - my company works all over the place, and if the client is in a different city I''d spend 2-4 days a week there and have the option of coming home on weekends or flying my DH to visit me. I''m sure even if I don''t work there I will make time to visit though - its always seemed like such a cool place

if you''re ever in nola, let me know! we''ll plan a gtg

 

[HOUMedGal]

Welcome to Texas, AG!!

I live and work inside the loop in Houston (Medical Center), and just wanted to offer my input. I'm originally a small-town girl, so it took awhile for Houston to grow on me, but I've been here for almost 5 years now, and it definitely has grown on me. I don't deal with the bad traffic on a daily basis...if you work inside the loop and can live inside as well, you'll avoid the worst of it (in and out on the interstates during rush hour). Yes, it is a big city, but you get to know your "area" well, and most of the things you need will be close by, so I don't think it's intimidating. As you mentioned, the museum district is lovely, and there are lots of beautiful inner-loop neighborhoods with both new constructions and older homes...whatever you desire. Lots of options for renters, too (we rent, and I've lived in and been happy with three different places here).

Hurricane Ike was no fun (unfortunately, we had some damage to our apt and lived with friends for 6 weeks while the repairs were completed), and every year during hurricane season we all hold our breath a little, but Ike is the first one in a good while that we've had problems with. A lot of us evacuated for Rita, but it turned out she didn't hit Houston. I think the last one that did significant damage was TS Allison back in 2001?? So there were 6 years in between. I mean, hurricanes are definitely a reality here....but we don't live in constant fear.

The weather in Houston vs Dallas won't seem that different to you, coming from Cali. Both are hot and humid in the summer. Dallas occasionally gets colder in the winter, and has more (albeit stil rare) freezing weather in the winter. Galveston is closeby if you need to get a seafood/ocean fix. No, it's not the prettiest beach in the world, but it's OK, and it's only 45 minutes away! There are lots of cool cultural activities (like free music/plays/shows every friday and saturday night in the spring/summer at Miller Outdoor Theatre in Hermann Park....we love to take a blanket, cheese/fruit, and a bottle of wine and sit on the grassy hill to watch the shows!), awesome museums, tons of great restaurants...I could go on!

I do think it's important to go with your gut, and especially important that you seem to gel with the person you'd be working with here in Houston. I think you'd be happy in either place, but I wanted to offer all the info above to make you feel better about going ahead and letting your gut feelings guide you. Feel free to ask any other questions that us Houstonites can answer for you!!

ETA: North Texas is flat, too. Dallas is no prettier than Houston. Austin beats them both by far.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/6/2009 2:47:27 PM
Author: ChinaCat
AG- Exactly. I lived in Southern Cal for 10 years and earthquakes were so not anything we ever worried about. All my family back in Texas asked me how I could stand it, didn''t it scare me? Nope. And while living in Dallas, I literally was driving home from work one night and was 1 minute ahead of a massive tornado. I could see it in my rearview mirror and was listening to the radio and it was saying now it''s at the intersection of x and y, as I had just crossed the intersection. THAT was frakking scary. But everywhere has something.


Except maybe Austin, come to think of it.


Excited for you and your new job. Let us know if/when you get here and get settled, and we''ll put together a welcome wagon for sure.

OMG that would have FREAKED me out - I can''t even imagine

We''ll probably be there sometime at the end of July/beginning of August, but I should know for sure in a few weeks - it partly depends on my thesis committee, unfortunately

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/6/2009 3:18:27 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I''ve never lived in Texas but I''ve traveled to both Houston and Dallas many times in the heat of summer. If there was a difference between them, my California skin didn''t notice. They were both hot as Hades and humid IMO.


So, based on that, and the fact that I need to be near an ocean, I''d vote for Houston for sure.

LOL purrfect - I''m sure you''re right, we will be wilting in the summer no matter what

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/6/2009 3:38:32 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I havent been to Texas. A friend of mine lives in the outskirts of Houston near Cypress?


Anyway, she loves living there, tells me she would never move back to Vegas. She was already used to heat but not the humidity which is killer I guess. After this past hurricane season she mentioned that when they say leave, she will be leaving

I agree you have to go with your gut. I''ve heard nothing but good things about both cities.

Thanks VegasAngel - I''m glad that your friend likes it, although the humidity sounds pretty brutal

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/6/2009 3:45:23 PM
Author: oobiecoo

Date: 2/6/2009 2:47:27 PM

Author: ChinaCat

AG- Exactly. I lived in Southern Cal for 10 years and earthquakes were so not anything we ever worried about. All my family back in Texas asked me how I could stand it, didn''t it scare me? Nope. And while living in Dallas, I literally was driving home from work one night and was 1 minute ahead of a massive tornado. I could see it in my rearview mirror and was listening to the radio and it was saying now it''s at the intersection of x and y, as I had just crossed the intersection. THAT was frakking scary. But everywhere has something.


Except maybe Austin, come to think of it.


Excited for you and your new job. Let us know if/when you get here and get settled, and we''ll put together a welcome wagon for sure.

The Austin area has hail storms

LOL I was told Dallas does too

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/6/2009 6:35:08 PM
Author: tlh
Dallas over Houston, though Houston has a better job market... but my family that lives in TX LOVE AUSTIN... esp the younger active generation. Just a lively town!

I''ve heard really good things about Austin. Sadly, its not an option, as my new company doesn''t have offices there...

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/6/2009 5:07:02 PM
Author: ChinaCat
oobie- True, but I kinda dig those.

And def not as scary as tornados and hurricanes and earthquakes, oh my!


Pear- Ummm, I guess technically Galveston is on the ocean, but it ain''t too pretty.

I am a total water freak and it doesn''t count in my book. I miss California. And yes, the humidity is hard to be believed until you actually experience it. It took me quite awhile to get used to it again. However, EVERYTHING is air conditioned here, so you can avoid it for the most part. Plus it''s good for your skin. That''s what I keep telling myself anyways.


But Amber, you will like it here, I promise. Texas is very unique, and while it isn''t California, it has it''s own charms.

I''m so down for a/c - I remember during summers in Providence, RI a/c was such a lifesaver. I''m actually hoping the humidity doesn''t mess up my skin - I may have to re-adjust my whole routine

(I know, huge hardship...

)

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/6/2009 7:02:44 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 2/6/2009 5:07:02 PM

Author: ChinaCat


Pear- Ummm, I guess technically Galveston is on the ocean, but it ain''t too pretty.

I am a total water freak and it doesn''t count in my book. I miss California. And yes, the humidity is hard to be believed until you actually experience it. It took me quite awhile to get used to it again. However, EVERYTHING is air conditioned here, so you can avoid it for the most part. Plus it''s good for your skin. That''s what I keep telling myself anyways.


But Amber, you will like it here, I promise. Texas is very unique, and while it isn''t California, it has it''s own charms.

Ditto. Galveston is disgusting. My biology professor told us horror stories about the chemicals in the fish too. Gross.

Here I go again, but.....Houston is just so flat and ugly (when you''re not in one of the manufactured ''pretty'' parts). It is going to be a huge difference from California no matter what. That''s part of the reason why I think Dallas might be better as well, but who knows! I know there are pretty parts of Texas (Austin, hill country) but Houston is NOT it.

Yeah chemicals in the fish sounds bad

I guess one good (or maybe not, depending on your perspective!) thing is that either place I go I''ll probably spend lots of time in the other city, since the company has clients both places...

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/6/2009 7:43:58 PM
Author: jcrow

Date: 2/5/2009 7:48:32 PM

if you''re ever in nola, let me know! we''ll plan a gtg

I will - that sounds like fun

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/6/2009 8:07:50 PM
Author: HOUMedGal
Welcome to Texas, AG!!


I live and work inside the loop in Houston (Medical Center), and just wanted to offer my input. I''m originally a small-town girl, so it took awhile for Houston to grow on me, but I''ve been here for almost 5 years now, and it definitely has grown on me. I don''t deal with the bad traffic on a daily basis...if you work inside the loop and can live inside as well, you''ll avoid the worst of it (in and out on the interstates during rush hour). Yes, it is a big city, but you get to know your ''area'' well, and most of the things you need will be close by, so I don''t think it''s intimidating. As you mentioned, the museum district is lovely, and there are lots of beautiful inner-loop neighborhoods with both new constructions and older homes...whatever you desire. Lots of options for renters, too (we rent, and I''ve lived in and been happy with three different places here).


Hurricane Ike was no fun (unfortunately, we had some damage to our apt and lived with friends for 6 weeks while the repairs were completed), and every year during hurricane season we all hold our breath a little, but Ike is the first one in a good while that we''ve had problems with. A lot of us evacuated for Rita, but it turned out she didn''t hit Houston. I think the last one that did significant damage was TS Allison back in 2001?? So there were 6 years in between. I mean, hurricanes are definitely a reality here....but we don''t live in constant fear.


The weather in Houston vs Dallas won''t seem that different to you, coming from Cali. Both are hot and humid in the summer. Dallas occasionally gets colder in the winter, and has more (albeit stil rare) freezing weather in the winter. Galveston is closeby if you need to get a seafood/ocean fix. No, it''s not the prettiest beach in the world, but it''s OK, and it''s only 45 minutes away! There are lots of cool cultural activities (like free music/plays/shows every friday and saturday night in the spring/summer at Miller Outdoor Theatre in Hermann Park....we love to take a blanket, cheese/fruit, and a bottle of wine and sit on the grassy hill to watch the shows!), awesome museums, tons of great restaurants...I could go on!


I do think it''s important to go with your gut, and especially important that you seem to gel with the person you''d be working with here in Houston. I think you''d be happy in either place, but I wanted to offer all the info above to make you feel better about going ahead and letting your gut feelings guide you. Feel free to ask any other questions that us Houstonites can answer for you!!


ETA: North Texas is flat, too. Dallas is no prettier than Houston. Austin beats them both by far.

Wow - thanks so much for the detailed reply HouMedGal

You certainly make it sound amazing! I agree you''re right, we''ll be happy in either place. But I really appreciate the reassurance about being happy there and all the cultural events and stuff - that all definitely sounds like its right up our alley.

That''s funny that you work at the medical center - another of my new co-worker''s husbands just started his residency there in 2008 - it would be so funny if you guys know each other somehow!

 

[appletini]

AG, I''ve got a link for you www.har.com it has all the houses in the Houston area that are for sale. This might be helpful for researching where you want to live if you choose Houston. It has a lot of great information.

 

[ChinaCat]

Yep, Austin rules them all, but unfortunately there just aren''t many jobs there. My DH and I have been plotting for ways to get back and so far nada. But it''s a short drive from Houston.

I agree about HAR.com- I live on it, my DH and I have been looking for a house (to buy) for awhile now. It''s a great resource!

AmberGretchen, you are moving during the hottest and most humid part of the year!!!!

So just know it won''t be THAT bad forever.

 

[bebe]

AG, I was thinking of you today! I was visiting a friend who has a new townhouse inside the loop, very close to downtown. Her place was gorgeous. It was a 2 story townhouse, gated, beautiful landscaped driveway area, gas lights on her front porch. Very charming. 3 bedrooms 3 baths. i think they paid around 400K for it. She said they walk to restaurants, which is unheard of here in Houston! I also saw a rental leasing office at a very nice looking townhouse complex close by. I had no idea all this existed that close to downtown. The whole area has exploded with growth, lots of young professionals in the area.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 2/13/2009 6:52:02 PM
Author: bebe
AG, I was thinking of you today!

Hehe...I was thinking of her on Wednesday.

I had a doctor's appointment near (well, in) the medical center and I got lost (don't find myself there too often). Beautiful neigborhoods. Tree-lined streets that form a canopy above you, right next to a Hermann Park where people walk their dogs and go jogging. Gorgeous!! I wish my part of town had that much character. It seems the further out you are the more "cookie cutter" it becomes. I guess its because they just build a bunch of houses all at once, throw a big fence around it and call it a neighborhood. Sigh. At leat that's how our area is.....development..strip center...development...strip center...development...........
BORING!!!!!

AG if you move inside the loop can we come visit you?!?!?

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/13/2009 1:55:26 PM
Author: appletini
AG, I''ve got a link for you www.har.com it has all the houses in the Houston area that are for sale. This might be helpful for researching where you want to live if you choose Houston. It has a lot of great information.

That is awesome appletini - thank you so much. I think we''ll probably rent for a while, until we have a better sense of where we''re headed next, but its so helpful to get a sense of what''s available

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/13/2009 2:05:18 PM
Author: ChinaCat
Yep, Austin rules them all, but unfortunately there just aren''t many jobs there. My DH and I have been plotting for ways to get back and so far nada. But it''s a short drive from Houston.


I agree about HAR.com- I live on it, my DH and I have been looking for a house (to buy) for awhile now. It''s a great resource!


AmberGretchen, you are moving during the hottest and most humid part of the year!!!!

So just know it won''t be THAT bad forever.

LOL - that''s cute about the plotting. I hope you guys can pull it off.

I am dreading moving in August - I just figure it will be brutal, and we''ll pay the relocation company to do as much of it as possible so hopefully that will help a lot. But other than that we''ll just make sure we have a/c everywhere we go.

I''m honestly more worried about the cats - we can put on shorts and tank tops and drink tons of water, but the cats don''t have a ton of options, and one of them is large and super-fluffy - I don''t want him to overheat, as they will already be stressed from the drive.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/13/2009 6:52:02 PM
Author: bebe
AG, I was thinking of you today! I was visiting a friend who has a new townhouse inside the loop, very close to downtown. Her place was gorgeous. It was a 2 story townhouse, gated, beautiful landscaped driveway area, gas lights on her front porch. Very charming. 3 bedrooms 3 baths. i think they paid around 400K for it. She said they walk to restaurants, which is unheard of here in Houston! I also saw a rental leasing office at a very nice looking townhouse complex close by. I had no idea all this existed that close to downtown. The whole area has exploded with growth, lots of young professionals in the area.

Awww...thanks Bebe - we saw a lot of that when we were there, and we liked the balance of newer construction and older homes and the neighborhood feel of several areas. I''m glad your friend has been so happy with hers - that sounds like what we''d buy if we''re planning to stick around for a few years more (hard to know at this point - I''ll really have to see how things go with the new job), so its really good to know that its out there. And even better to know that they lease places like that - I think a townhouse would be perfect for us - plenty of room for the kitties and the dog we''re planning to get, but without the upkeep stress of a SFH

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/13/2009 7:28:03 PM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 2/13/2009 6:52:02 PM

Author: bebe

AG, I was thinking of you today!

Hehe...I was thinking of her on Wednesday.


I had a doctor''s appointment near (well, in) the medical center and I got lost (don''t find myself there too often). Beautiful neigborhoods. Tree-lined streets that form a canopy above you, right next to a Hermann Park where people walk their dogs and go jogging. Gorgeous!! I wish my part of town had that much character. It seems the further out you are the more ''cookie cutter'' it becomes. I guess its because they just build a bunch of houses all at once, throw a big fence around it and call it a neighborhood. Sigh. At leat that''s how our area is.....development..strip center...development...strip center...development...........

BORING!!!!!


AG if you move inside the loop can we come visit you?!?!?

luckystar - I hope your medical appointment went well!

The neighborhoods you talk about are what we liked so much when we were there. We''d 100% live inside the loop - we''ll be lucky enough to be able to afford it, and I want to be close to work and my coworkers. Its really important to me to have stuff close by - I''m a city girl through and through and I think I''d shrivel up and die trying to live in the suburbs at this point in my life

You would be more than welcome to come visit once we''re moved in - we''d love to host a PS GTG, or a smaller gathering, or whatever, as long as people don''t mind all the fur-beasts

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 2/13/2009 7:54:43 PM
Author: AmberGretchen

luckystar - I hope your medical appointment went well!

The neighborhoods you talk about are what we liked so much when we were there. We''d 100% live inside the loop - we''ll be lucky enough to be able to afford it, and I want to be close to work and my coworkers. Its really important to me to have stuff close by - I''m a city girl through and through and I think I''d shrivel up and die trying to live in the suburbs at this point in my life

You would be more than welcome to come visit once we''re moved in - we''d love to host a PS GTG, or a smaller gathering, or whatever, as long as people don''t mind all the fur-beasts

It DID go well, thanks! It was amazing to talk to a doctor who knew what he was talking about. My fears are almost 100% alleviated. If only I could get past this silly fear of anesthesia!!!

It will be given to me through an IV and he said if I don''t have egg allergies I shouldn''t have a problem. But I''m still scared.

But all in all it went well. Just gotta book the procedure now, once I figure out how I''m going to pay for it! lol

End threadjack!

I have four fur beasts so I can def relate. My cats seem to pant a lot more in the summer but I''m not sure if its due to the heat. They sure look funny doing it though.

One of my cats is huge and fluffy but he seems to love to lounge in our back yard.
I''m not sure about inside the loop, but one of the good things about apartment complexes (at least) is that most of them have swimming pools. It''s a huge plus!
Also, I was talking to a coworker today (she lives in the Museum district) and she was saying that there are always tons of condos for rent down there. They are able to walk to several museums from their house, which is cool.

 

[AmberGretchen]

luckystar - I''m so glad your appointment went well - that is really good news. Having a good Dr. who knows what they''re talking about is so important, it really makes a huge difference. I''ll keep my fingers crossed and send dust that you''re able to get the procedure all booked and paid for and it goes well. I''m sure it will, but a few extra good thoughts never hurt

The kitties panting sounds pretty cute - I wonder if mine will do that. I think I might worry about them if they did. Mine are strictly indoor-only though - one of them is mostly white, including her nose, and we were told its a big skin cancer risk if she goes outside. Since she''s my little princess (definitely the one I''m most bonded to), I just can''t bring myself to risk it. Besides, mine have never really seemed to want to go outside very much - once one of them got out, and she ran about 10 steps, looked around, and then froze and let me come and pick her up and bring her inside

 

[appletini]

AG,

There are several neighborhoods that are part inside the loop and part outside the loop...ours is one of them...we are on the outerloop side but have all the inner loop benefits without the inner loop markup. So check out Bellaire, Meyerland, Willow Meadows, etc. All are very close to the galleria, downtown, and med center.

Also I think luckystar was refering to Rice University when she was lost near the med center. Rice University and Memorial Park are the two most popular spots for walking jogging. There are also several dog park inside the loop as well.