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GIA laser drilled diamond

I fully understand the desire of getting a laser drilled earth mined stone over a lab one. The first came from the ground and the other didn’t.

Also I don’t get why natural diamonds that have gone through HPHT treatment are bad, but the lab diamonds what go through the exactly same process are totally fine.

Just to clarify that I own both untreated natural and lab diamonds.
 
nojs said:
Also I don’t get why natural diamonds that have gone through HPHT treatment are bad, but the lab diamonds what go through the exactly same process are totally fine.
Click to expand...

My thoughts are the mentality of the two buyer groups are vastly different. With synthetics you expect man to to interfere with the process. With natural it’s frowned upon.

Maybe a good example is if you’ve gone bowling. For kids, you can activate the gutter rails so the bowling ball stays on the alley and strikes the pins. It’s a much more rewarding experience for youth bowlers as they are knocking pins down. However, an adult using the same gaurd rails is seen as “cheating” and devalues their ability to get a high score.

Another example might be buying a house with settlement issues that has used piers (drilled holes filled with concrete) to help re-level the house. Although work has been done to correct an issue, those things are often seen as negative and may turn off a potential buyer.

How about the restaurant you and an ex-flame previously enjoyed? Technically the food is the same, yet the experience may not be desirable because of past history.

Value isn’t always defined by technicalities but rather many times by our own perceptions.
 
Unless someone is trying to pass a treated diamond as untreated, why would that be any more “cheating”, than creating the whole stone in a lab? Who is cheated and how?

Everybody understands that the value of a treated natural is below untreated natural. The value of a lab diamond is also below a natural, untreated stone. What is a fair price for such an item is up to the buyer to decide.

I don’t know if this laser drilling might cause some maintenance issues compared to lab diamonds and I would check that before buying, but the philosophy behind treated vs. lab is beyond me, although I only own untreated natural stones and lad stones. But I could buy a treated one, if they were cheap enough (like less that haft of the price of a similar looking untreated stone).
 
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nojs said:
Unless someone is trying to pass a treated diamond as untreated, why would that be any more “cheating”, than creating the whole stone in a lab? Who is cheated and how?

Everybody understands that the value of a treated natural is below untreated natural. The value of a lab diamond is also below a natural, untreated stone. What is a fair price for such an item is up to the buyer to decide.
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It depends on the person's perception of "cheating".

If a stone has a black inclusion and is drilled to remove the inclusion then the stone was indeed altered to achieve better clarity. Additionally a tiny hole was created in the process. One that may be left open or filled with a crystal substance that is subject to removal with routine cleaning & repairs.

Not to mention, each time a hole is drilled the original structure is weakened. By how much comes down to a mathematical equation. The more holes the more weakening, even if minimal.

1621979679324.png

As far as color treatment, a chemical process is used to alter the original stone's color.

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4cs.gia.edu

How Diamond Treatments Can Impact Color, Clarity and Value of a Diamond | 4Cs of Diamond Quality by GIA

Treated diamonds can be difficult to identify. Learn about what treated diamonds are and how diamond treatment impacts color, clarity and value.
4cs.gia.edu 4cs.gia.edu
 
Interesting discussion!
To me, Lab Grown Stones seem to present different considerations compared to Earth mined stones.
For example- Lab reports.
Up until a few months back, I never allowed our site to publish anything buy GIA or AGSL grades.
Same for irradiated, or HPHT.
With the Lab Grown stones, I feel the freedom to use my instincts and disregarding the report, and or treatment entirely.
If a Lab Grown diamond looks nice, I am willing to accept the post growth treatment.
And lucky for me, I can adapt.
I still love Earth Mined Diamonds. I still reject earth mined diamonds that have been treated for color, or clarity. Like a little Diamond Mènag à trois:)
Some of the old timers here on 47th can't adapt. They scoff at Lab Grown diamonds..
If you think about it, Lab Grown diamonds allow a total re-assesment of diamonds in general.
 
Rockdiamond said:
Interesting discussion!
To me, Lab Grown Stones seem to present different considerations compared to Earth mined stones.
For example- Lab reports.
Up until a few months back, I never allowed our site to publish anything buy GIA or AGSL grades.
Same for irradiated, or HPHT.
With the Lab Grown stones, I feel the freedom to use my instincts and disregarding the report, and or treatment entirely.
If a Lab Grown diamond looks nice, I am willing to accept the post growth treatment.
And lucky for me, I can adapt.
I still love Earth Mined Diamonds. I still reject earth mined diamonds that have been treated for color, or clarity. Like a little Diamond Mènag à trois:)
Some of the old timers here on 47th can't adapt. They scoff at Lab Grown diamonds..
If you think about it, Lab Grown diamonds allow a total re-assesment of diamonds in general.
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I'm not surprised that many of the PS-adjacent vendors are selling lab-grown stones... you guys all successfully made the switch to having your businesses be at least in part online, so have a proven track record adapting to shifts in the market. Quite a few of the people I know IRL who have gotten engaged recently have gone with lab-grown diamonds (and almost everyone has at least considered them), and I suspect most vendors who don't adapt will be left in the dust. I think that there will still be places that sell mined-only, but it will become a more niche market.

While I see @nojs's point about not seeing why people who are fine with lab-grown stones wouldn't be fine with treated stones, I also think it isn't necessarily logical. Some part of jewelry purchases are emotional, and it's definitely "cooler" to know you have a gem that came out of the ground the exact color it is, and if it's been altered you really want the price to reflect that - and sometimes you think, well, any intervention of man to change clarity or color and you might as well go all the way to completely synthetic. Like I wouldn't buy a beryllium treated sapphire except in basically a piece of costume jewelry - I'd rather just go for a synthetic one that we all agree is more like costume jewelry and no one is trying to charge me an arm and a leg for (which I've definitely seen before with BE-treated sapphires).
 
I knew ebay had some vendors selling clarity enhanced diamonds so had a quick search and voila, this is exactly what you wanted!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114800095729?hash=item1aba9e71f1:g:JUsAAOSwSHlgl8Mh&frcectupt=true

It's over 10mm, G colour, I1 and laser drilled, and under 25K. I don't know what the resultant clarity is but worth asking I guess.

If your heart is set on a drilled stone, AND you've exhausted all other options of acquiring a diamond within your budget for the desired size, then go for it.

I'm Team Lab, so with 25K, I'd buy a chunky lab OEC from Rhino and a Birkin with the money left over lol

But each to their own and I hope you find something nice.
 
distracts said:
...and sometimes you think, well, any intervention of man to change clarity or color and you might as well go all the way to completely synthetic.
Click to expand...

This. I was thinking this too as I know some people lean toward the 'nature's gift' argument for mined stones, but shooting it with a laser seems mighty unnatural lol

It's kinda like plastic surgery I guess. Great to be born perfect but if you're not, there's a surgeon out there that can enhance you too. Nothing at all wrong with that but worthy of considering how important 'natural' is?
 
monipod said:
I knew ebay had some vendors selling clarity enhanced diamonds so had a quick search and voila, this is exactly what you wanted!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114800095729?hash=item1aba9e71f1:g:JUsAAOSwSHlgl8Mh&frcectupt=true

It's over 10mm, G colour, I1 and laser drilled, and under 25K. I don't know what the resultant clarity is but worth asking I guess.

If your heart is set on a drilled stone, AND you've exhausted all other options of acquiring a diamond within your budget for the desired size, then go for it.

I'm Team Lab, so with 25K, I'd buy a chunky lab OEC from Rhino and a Birkin with the money left over lol

But each to their own and I hope you find something nice.
Click to expand...

This ad reads like an infomercial. The “click here” for HD video is broke. Everything is “Rothem certified & appraised”. I’m sorry, who is Rothem? No GIA report that I saw mentioned. No actual pic. No proportions listed.

There is about ZERO chance I’d buy this stone, not because it was laser drilled but because it screams shady. Maybe I am being over critical and others can post to the contrary?

FYI, I was reading an article the other day that mentioned laser drilling normally only improves by ONE clarity grade. I can’t recall the source but will try to find. I remember wanting to verify but haven’t had time. Assuming that is accurate, and even if it was double because they were the greatest laser driller in the business, it *may* be an SI1 clarity. For a stone that size, I’d still be concerned with SI1 being eye clean. The lack of meaningful data doesn’t allow a potential buyer to have a shot at analyzing it.

Please, buyer beware!
 
monipod said:
This. I was thinking this too as I know some people lean toward the 'nature's gift' argument for mined stones, but shooting it with a laser seems mighty unnatural lol

It's kinda like plastic surgery I guess. Great to be born perfect but if you're not, there's a surgeon out there that can enhance you too. Nothing at all wrong with that but worthy of considering how important 'natural' is?
Click to expand...

My guess is that some of this is buyers going synthetic have ethical reasons for doing so. Rather those concerns are founded or not is a different debate. But if this is their perception, a laser drilled stone isn’t a determining factor. At that point, it would be an enhanced stone that still has ethical issues in that synthetic buyers mind.

Also, price seems like a primary driver. I’ve not done enough analysis to say with certainty but does the overall price layout look like this?

$$$ = earth mined
$$ = enhanced earth mined
$ = synthetic

Lastly, could the simple effects of new vs old come into play? Why buy old and especially old that requires repair when they can just buy new from the get go?
 
sledge said:
There is about ZERO chance I’d buy this stone, not because it was laser drilled but because it screams shady. Maybe I am being over critical and others can post to the contrary?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't buy it either but clearly there's a market for it going by the majority of happy (but perhaps uninformed) customers of this vendor. I know Israeli vendors can get hold of cheap stones so perhaps it's not a bad source of mid-range stones for people who value size over the other Cs? I was mostly amused to find something that pretty much fit what the OP wanted lol

To be honest, if I could see the stones in real life, I could possibly be interested but I'd still go lab, especially the drilling only provides one clarity grade better. Or, I'd go mined but down 1mm.
 
sledge said:
Also, price seems like a primary driver. I’ve not done enough analysis to say with certainty but does the overall price layout look like this?

$$$ = earth mined
$$ = enhanced earth mined
$ = synthetic
Click to expand...

I think it's ever changing and there so many variables, but I'm inclined to think that a lab stone may well cost the same or even more than a drilled mined stone. I say this because I don't think any sensible vendor would drill a stone better than SI1 and above (I'm assuming drilling does devalue, so why mess with stones that are mostly clear?), so the baseline mined stone for drilling is SI2/I1. The equivalent lab stone that's SI2 is pretty good to my eye, as lab inclusions are pretty forgiving compared to carbon inclusions (which I think is the only type drilling 'fixes'?). This is all very interesting. Kinda hijacking the thread sorry but there's been a lot of good points brought up.
 
@sledge - Agree that eBay diamond from Rothem should be ruled out, but FYI, you'll see the YouTube video if you hit the big blue button in the listing that's labeled WATCH NOW.

The only sources I'm seeing for the proposition that laser drilling typically improves the clarity by just one grade are websites that flatly dismiss both laser drilled and clarity enhanced (fracture-filled) diamonds. I'm not able to quickly find anything about this on GIA's website, but I imagine the most accurate answer is "It depends." Certainly, the appearance of the inherited diamond depicted in Wink's video, which I posted at #11 in this thread, was markedly improved (even the color, Wink has noted) by laser drilling.

Tough to say, given the paucity of information in that Rothem listing, but I don't think the diamond is laser drilled. In the Item Specifics box, the treatment is described as Clarity Enhanced, signifying fracture-filling. Unfortunately imo, eBay's search function often retrieves more/other than what you ask for. E.g., when I used laser drilled diamond as the only search term & checked off the Include description box , the results included this diamond with a 2020 GIA report that does not reflect any laser drilling:
www.ebay.com

GIA Certificate 4.08ct M Color SI2 Clarity Radiant Shape Excellent Cut Diamond | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for GIA Certificate 4.08ct M Color SI2 Clarity Radiant Shape Excellent Cut Diamond at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
 
MollyMalone said:
@sledge - Agree that eBay diamond from Rothem should be ruled out, but FYI, you'll see the YouTube video if you hit the big blue button in the listing that's labeled WATCH NOW.

The only sources I'm seeing for the proposition that laser drilling typically improves the clarity by just one grade are websites that flatly dismiss both laser drilled and clarity enhanced (fracture-filled) diamonds. I'm not able to quickly find anything about this on GIA's website, but I imagine the most accurate answer is "It depends." Certainly, the appearance of the inherited diamond depicted in Wink's video, which I posted at #11 in this thread, was markedly improved (even the color, Wink has noted) by laser drilling.

Tough to say, given the paucity of information in that Rothem listing, but I don't think the diamond is laser drilled. In the Item Specifics box, the treatment is described as Clarity Enhanced, signifying fracture-filling. Unfortunately imo, eBay's search function often retrieves more/other than what you ask for. E.g., when I used laser drilled diamond as the only search term & checked off the Include description box , the results included this diamond with a 2020 GIA report that does not reflect any laser drilling:
www.ebay.com

GIA Certificate 4.08ct M Color SI2 Clarity Radiant Shape Excellent Cut Diamond | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for GIA Certificate 4.08ct M Color SI2 Clarity Radiant Shape Excellent Cut Diamond at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
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I was on my iPhone earlier when the link came up dead, but it was the same one I clicked. I remember being worried with the lady and heart symbol, as I was like "great, here come the **** pop ups". So I was a little surprised nothing opened.

On my laptop the link worked. Since this is the video, I am going to assume this screen cap I took is of the "enhanced" stone, whatever that means to them. :knockout:

Capture.PNG

Also, look at the girdle thickness. Think maybe it's hiding just a smidge of carat weight in that fat sucker? LOL

So not eye clean and has transparency issues. And it's poorly cut. Blah, no thanks.

Capture2.PNG

HAHAHAHA, while your last eBay search didn't reveal laser drilling I learned that experienced diamond buyers usually buy from a description, not a photo. :lol:

Don't get me started on the typo's.

Capture12.PNG
 
sledge said:
FYI, I was reading an article the other day that mentioned laser drilling normally only improves by ONE clarity grade. I can’t recall the source but will try to find.
Click to expand...

I'd be very interested to see what was written.,
It's totally wrong, but I'd love to see how they framed this.
The reason it's wrong in my opinion is that clarity grading is based on the presence of imperfection, as opposed to its visibility.
In a best case scenario, the spot which is drilled to is very close to the surface, leaving a tiny channel. In such a case the clarity might stay the same. Maybe the formerly black spot is now white, and maybe less visible.....but as I mentioned, that won't change the clarity grade.
If the channels are longer, they will detract from the clarity grade based on their presence.
 
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monipod said:
I knew ebay had some vendors selling clarity enhanced diamonds so had a quick search and voila, this is exactly what you wanted!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114800095729?hash=item1aba9e71f1:g:JUsAAOSwSHlgl8Mh&frcectupt=true

It's over 10mm, G colour, I1 and laser drilled, and under 25K. I don't know what the resultant clarity is but worth asking I guess.

If your heart is set on a drilled stone, AND you've exhausted all other options of acquiring a diamond within your budget for the desired size, then go for it.

I'm Team Lab, so with 25K, I'd buy a chunky lab OEC from Rhino and a Birkin with the money left over lol

But each to their own and I hope you find something nice.
Click to expand...

Just don’t end up with a drilled Birkin :)
 
Rockdiamond said:
I'd be very interested to see what was written.,
It's totally wrong, but I'd love to see how they framed this.
The reason it's wrong in my opinion is that clarity grading is based on the presence of imperfection, as opposed to its visibility.
In a best case scenario, the spot which is drilled to is very close to the surface, leaving a tiny channel. In such a case the clarity might stay the same. Maybe the formerly black spot is now white, and maybe less visible.....but as I mentioned, that won't change the clarity grade.
If the channels are longer, they will detract from the clarity grade based on their presence.
Click to expand...

Thanks for chiming in David. What you are saying makes sense to me.

As I mentioned, I was doing research and had Googled several results. I was reading a few different articles, one of them being a GIA article. It all clustered together and looking back I now regret making reference to this as it does not seem very reputable to me at all.

But for the sake of transparency, I am sharing in full:

What Are Laser-Drilled Diamonds and Are They a Good Choice?

www.jewelrynotes.com www.jewelrynotes.com
 
NO need to apologize!! There's so much...bull out there- it's actually informative for us to look at that stuff together to assist folks in debunking the clearly inaccurate claims.....
 
On topic: I think people’s aversion to clarity and color enhancements is that they are associated in most people’s minds with scams.

On a personal note: I love the deep teal-turquoise of color treated green and blue diamonds but can’t bring myself to buy one. I’d buy a trendy $2,500 Montana sapphire before a really pretty color treated diamond for $150.

On the real reason for posting here: Too many bad joke opportunities to pass up...

MollyMalone said:
Well, an amazing, $25G vacation won't leave her with a roughly 4 ct diamond, which is what she wants.
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I can imagine an amazing $25G vacation leading to a 4 ct diamond, but I’ll pass since I’m already happily married. And I would want a polished diamond, anyway.

MollyMalone said:
Twenty years ago, "buzz" arose re a new "Kiduah Meyuhad" (special drill in Hebrew)
Click to expand...

Tried to make the joke worse but it was impossible.

monipod said:
This. I was thinking this too as I know some people lean toward the 'nature's gift' argument for mined stones, but shooting it with a laser seems mighty unnatural lol
Click to expand...

It’s totally natural to go around shooting other things with lasers, though.

:lol-2:
 
WHen we'd see a stone that had a lot of drill holes....we know it had been used for "taget Practice"
 
I was actually commenting more on HPHT color treatment that laser drilling on my earlier comment. HPHT to my understanding is used on many CVD grown lab diamonds and of course on all the HPHT grown. I have understood the HPHT color change on natural diamonds is permanent and it in no way compromises the diamond, unlike laser drilled might.

So it seems that many people frown upon a HPHT natural diamond but are fine by HPHT treated CVD diamond / HPHT created diamond. I totally get that one could choose a lab diamond (I have even done so myself), but not the sentiment of objecting the treated on principle.

The only reason I don’t own any treated naturals myself, is that they are still to pricey compared to natural diamonds, especially giving that I only buy small stones. It might be a different story over 2 ct.
 
And if laser drilling is plastic surgery, wouldn’t color change be like whitening your teeth? Too unnatural for you?
 
nojs said:
And if laser drilling is plastic surgery, wouldn’t color change be like whitening your teeth? Too unnatural for you?
Click to expand...

I think everyone's got their own threshold for plastic surgery (and diamond enhancing lol). I get why someone might want to laser one carbon inclusion in an otherwise perfect diamond, if it bothered them that much (say like someone who hates having a bump on their nose, but otherwise they really look fine to other people). I think it's when you're trying to change an I1 into something that it never can be then you kinda have to say, let it be lol

I'm all for enhancing anything but there's a limit right?
 
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