Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!!!

[vintagelover229]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Hi Steve!
First I want to say I LOVE the design and how much effort you are putting into this whole thing. I noticed you were considering changing the prongs. Considering the ring has a "floral feel" to it have you considered fish tale prongs? I'm not sure if it will look quite right with it, but it's just an idea. Here is what I'm talking about
http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/SOLD-ITEMS-1/93ct-Old-European-Cut-Antique/11833190_PDRc8#836490765_btAdg

 

[velouriaL]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Aw thanks, minousbijoux!

Steve, what I meant about getting rid of the basket completely was more like the o.g. Lily (http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/JbEG-Signature-Settings-and/Plain-and-Pave-Solitaires/The-Lily-Split-Shank/) in which the stone is held in place by the petals. This may be not enough protection for the sapphire, though?

On the other hand, I think with the two-tone thing, it's best to have a white basket and the white bezel around the pears. Makes the whole thing look a bit more integrated. I think Freke and you are right that you won't be able to keep the prongs too much. They are going to be really tiny IRL!

Can you get CADs with and without the cuffs? Just to see...

 

[velouriaL]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

EDIT: Here's an example of cuffs cinching the petals; I want my petals to look more like THESE petals:

Juuuuust wanna whisper that your petals are going to be GORGEOUS GORGEOUS GORGEOUS. But they probably won't ever look quite like the MC2 petals. For that, they would have to be handmade by Tim McClelland. I know you know... and have heard it from us a million times before in more or less delicate terms. I'm just saying that your goal should be to evoke the vibe that you love of the MC2 ring while playing to the strengths of the CAD/cast process... NOT duplicating the MC2, because it's just not possible. Plus, I actually think the less intricate petals will work better with your GF's active lifestyle.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Steve, what I meant about getting rid of the basket completely was more like the o.g. Lily (http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/JbEG-Signature-Settings-and/Plain-and-Pave-Solitaires/The-Lily-Split-Shank/) in which the stone is held in place by the petals. This may be not enough protection for the sapphire, though?

On the other hand, I think with the two-tone thing, it's best to have a white basket and the white bezel around the pears. Makes the whole thing look a bit more integrated. I think Freke and you are right that you won't be able to keep the prongs too much. They are going to be really tiny IRL!

Can you get CADs with and without the cuffs? Just to see...

I think I like the prongs better than having no basket on the Lily you linked... having nothing there just seems a little weird to my eye. Plus maybe it'll offer better protection, plus I like the contrast between the two different metals, and having the basket in platinum or WG is a key component of that.

I assume you meant to say "you won't be able to see the prongs too much."

Juuuuust wanna whisper that your petals are going to be GORGEOUS GORGEOUS GORGEOUS. But they probably won't ever look quite like the MC2 petals. For that, they would have to be handmade by Tim McClelland. I know you know... and have heard it from us a million times before in more or less delicate terms. I'm just saying that your goal should be to evoke the vibe that you love of the MC2 ring while playing to the strengths of the CAD/cast process... NOT duplicating the MC2, because it's just not possible. Plus, I actually think the less intricate petals will work better with your GF's active lifestyle.

OK, what are these "strengths of the CAD/cast process" that you speak of?

I'm starting to think that combining elements from these 2 MC2 rings might not be possible. I love the cuffs and petals combo, and I love the pears and petals combo as well, even though they are 2 very different rings. I don't think MC2 even has any rings which combine these 3 design elements (cuffs, side stones, and petals), at least not with side stones of any significant size, anyway. So on the surface we've got a great idea here, one which draws inspiration from MC2 rings but doesn't really look like either one. But in reality, maybe MC2 has never tried it because, stylistically, it just doesn't work?

What do you folks think; should I stop trying to combine these 2 rings, and just pick one or the other: cuffs or pears?

 

[VapidLapid]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

yes, stop.
cuffs or petals.

 

[Aoife]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

yes, stop.
cuffs or petals.

+1

The great strength of either of the Mc2 designs, or the original Lilly, is the seamless simplicity. That's what makes them beautiful, and that's why the eye delights in both of them. In my opinion, you've lost that by trying to combine them. Pick one or the other, and you will end up with a timeless design. An important element of good design is knowing when to stop. I think you're at that point. One or the other, not both.

 

[maebelle]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I'm going to be the dissenting opinion. I think your ring is a great combination of these two and is actually less busy than the mc2 blue ring. I love it the way it is! Cuffs, pears, basket and all!

But it's not my ring. I suggest maybe not looking at the CADs or the forum for a couple days, giving your brain a rest, and then see how you feel, what you like, what you think your GF will like. Also remember that we are looking at this HUGE compared the how the ring will end up. Try looking at in minimized.

I am now going to sit back and wait for your final results. Good Luck!

 

[brightblue]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

This has been so fun to watch as it unfolds. I believe you can have both but what stops me in your cad is how stagnant the petals appear. Perhaps if they weren't at such right angles or had one more petal on each side the design would seem more fluid to your eye.(?) I do want to re-emphasize that these photos are HUGE compared to the actual size of the ring.

 

[Mrs.W 514]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

You can have both and what you have is a really nice marriage of the two but, I agree with bright blue, the petals are a bit stiff. I think the main reason you are "wishing the petals looked like this" is because they meet at right angles giving them an inorganic look. Both of the inspiration rings have petals that meet each other at a more natural angle giving the ring a more organic, I-just-picked-this-from-the garden look.

 

[VapidLapid]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

the petals on the cad are not only at right angles, but they have only a simple curve, each on one axis. The petals of the inspiration ring have complex negative (concave) curvature on the outside surface, and similarly positive curvature on the inside. This is why the inspiration ring petals have more volume and a sculptural feeling.

 

[velouriaL]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

In addition to being cost efficient and rendering clean forms without a lot of hand-fabrication, the beauty of the CAD/cast process is revision and iteration! Ask Erica to make you CADs: +petals/-cuff, +cuffs/-petals and with the petals a bit differently.

But I guess another thing I meant about playing to the strengths of the CAD/cast process is not expecting it to do what expensive, expert hand fabrication can do and adjust the design accordingly. To me, this is a vote for the pears, which contribute to the overall beauty of the design so that it doesn't have the overrely on the sublimity of the petals. Definitely ask Erica to tweak the petals (although honestly, I think they will look good in metal as is), but don't worry about the petals "making" the design as they do in the cuff-having inspiration ring because the larger diamond side stones are definitely part of the show, too.

Don't forget, of course, as everyone has mentioned, that the real deal will be much smaller and more soulful than the CADs.

In some ways, it's going to be a matter of taste-- I like no basket, you like basket. I like pears only, others on here cuffs or maybe both pears and cuff. Ultimately, it's up to you.

After sufficiently exploring your options, go with your gut. I have no doubt at all that it will come out beautifully. Your GF, who will not have agonized over the tiniest details the way you valiantly and adorably have, will only know the ring as its final result and be absolutely awe-struck.

You're doing awesome!

 

[velouriaL]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

double post!

 

[velouriaL]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

ooh ooh! here's another idea!

Keep the ring basically as it is in the CADs (the petals, the two tone, the basket), but swap out the cuffs for the little leaf detail on the sapphire inspiration ring...

I tried to show what I was talking about using handy dandy photoshop... So, in comparison to the original: fewer petals, a more simple basket, and two-tone.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I like Velouria's newest idea.

 

[VapidLapid]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I like Velouria's newest idea.

me too

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Yup, ditto for me!

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

In addition to being cost efficient and rendering clean forms without a lot of hand-fabrication, the beauty of the CAD/cast process is revision and iteration! Ask Erica to make you CADs: +petals/-cuff, +cuffs/-petals and with the petals a bit differently.

Yeah, I asked Erica for different variations on the CADs (e.g. "let's see what it would look like without the pears", or "without the cuffs"), and she explained to me that it's not a good idea, because CADs are really time-consuming. Part of the reason why they're so labor-intensive is because each structural change they make results in lots of design time. Changing one component of a CAD can lead to other parts getting out of whack and requiring tweaking, and I think that's why it's usually about a week between each set of CADs she sends me. I understand this; I can't ask for every single different combination I can think of to be CADded out; that would take too long and go way beyond our original design agreement for this ring.

That being said, if there is an idea that I think would really make sense, and it's more of a minor tweak to my existing design, then I can certainly ask her do the CADs for me. Right now her jeweler is creating CADs to turn the outside petals out at a new angle more similar to the MC2 ring (without having the ring look too much like the MC2, of course). I'll let you know how they turn out!

Velourial, I'm trying to understand your idea; what would be the different between what you're suggesting, and the platinum/blue MC2 ring you photoshopped? I'd have petals (or would they be leaves?), pears, and... where would the 2 tone metal be? And how could I have a "more simple" basket, when my pavilion is already pretty much open right now? I think I like this idea... if I can just understand it.

 

[velouriaL]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

So, the original blue ring:
4(plus?) petals per side
all platinum
a complicated basket (i think?)

My suggestion:
only three petals per side (and a fourth under, kinda) (as in CADs)
the pears in the middle petal of their own (as in the CADs)
all gold, with white basket and pear bezel (as in CADs)
open basket (as in CADs)
"leaf" detail instead of cuffs (could be white... I say gold)
reangled petals, but hopefully smoother than the MC2, which to me looks like it would get caught on things and be unsuitable for your GF's lifestyle

hmmmm... as I understand it, she should be able to take out the cuffs from the CADs without too much problem... But I'm not a CAD designer...

I also just want to contradict myself with Harriet prophetic advice:
"If I were you, I'd tell each designer what elements you want and let her run with it. If Mc2 is your model, I fear that you won't be entirely happy with an "inspired-by" ring. I spoke at length with one of the Mcs (on a different project), and he explained the price difference between their settings and others. Do let each designer go where her creativity takes her. You'll be less likely to be disappointed. I hope you understand what I'm trying to convey."

It may be better to give Erica *your* honest opinion (not *ours*) and see how she revises it...

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

OK, this latest round of CADs shows a subtle turn out in the petals, although they are still pretty much at right angles with the petals on top, and moving the cuffs up a bit. Erica offered to turn them out even more, if I want. Do you like these better or worse than the last set?

Velourial, I'm not sure what the "leaf detail" is that you're talking about, which would replace the cuffs. I would love to see more detail on the petals, but what form does that take? Engraving? Additional petals?

As for changing the angles of the petals, do you mean turning out the petals on the side of the shank, like she did below? Or changing the angle of the petals on top (with the pears)?

 

[LD]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I'm going to be honest and say that the latest CADs are looking very masculine and chunky (I realise that the metalwork will be slimmer when made) but even so this is very bulky.

I much prefer the more delicate look you had before. A slight difference may be if you carved the side profile petals into two i.e. so they were more intricate and looked like petals rather than lumps of metal. At the moment they also obscure the side profile of the sapphire and the V that it sits in. That's a lovely look but totally hidden.

I do hope I haven't offended but unless your future intended likes solid bulky looking jewellery I would add in more feminine touches but without too much frou frou - there's a fine line!

 

[marymm]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Honestly, since you are asking for opinions, overall I much prefer the CADs you posted on April 6th. To my eye it has a nicer flow and a synergy.

I brought up both sets on my screen but since the two sets of CADS have different angles and shots, it was hard to do a close comparison. But the new CADs seem to bring up the pears much higher and closer to the center stone which I do not find as pleasing, and the new angling/almost flaring of the petals does not seem to enhance the organic feel of the piece. It just doesn't seem to all come together.

And while I do like the cuffs' position in the new set of CADs, now that they are closer to the pears I think the cuffs might be more effective if they were thinned out to half their current width and either with smaller diamonds, or if you're doing any milgraining or engraving maybe just that matching embellishment and no diamonds.

Of course this is only my off-the-cuff reaction, and CADs always come off as more bulky than any finished piece would be - it is your reaction and opinion and those of your GF that really count - and with the talent and cooperation you have with Erica/JBeg, your dream ring will end up gorgeous.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I'm going to be honest and say that the latest CADs are looking very masculine and chunky (I realise that the metalwork will be slimmer when made) but even so this is very bulky.

I much prefer the more delicate look you had before. A slight difference may be if you carved the side profile petals into two i.e. so they were more intricate and looked like petals rather than lumps of metal. At the moment they also obscure the side profile of the sapphire and the V that it sits in. That's a lovely look but totally hidden.

I do hope I haven't offended but unless your future intended likes solid bulky looking jewellery I would add in more feminine touches but without too much frou frou - there's a fine line!

Yeah, I kind of agree with you. I'm not sure how to make the ring look more delicate and feminine. I am kind of hoping that will magically happen when Erica turns the CADs into the actual ring, because of it being much smaller IRL and maybe not as uniform and bulky as in the CADs.

How would I carve the side petals into 2; split the end like a snake's tongue? Or layer one petal on top of another, like in the blue & platinum MC2 ring?

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Honestly, since you are asking for opinions, overall I much prefer the CADs you posted on April 6th. To my eye it has a nicer flow and a synergy.

I brought up both sets on my screen but since the two sets of CADS have different angles and shots, it was hard to do a close comparison. But the new CADs seem to bring up the pears much higher and closer to the center stone which I do not find as pleasing, and the new angling/almost flaring of the petals does not seem to enhance the organic feel of the piece. It just doesn't seem to all come together.

And while I do like the cuffs' position in the new set of CADs, now that they are closer to the pears I think the cuffs might be more effective if they were thinned out to half their current width and either with smaller diamonds, or if you're doing any milgraining or engraving maybe just that matching embellishment and no diamonds.

Of course this is only my off-the-cuff reaction, and CADs always come off as more bulky than any finished piece would be - it is your reaction and opinion and those of your GF that really count - and with the talent and cooperation you have with Erica/JBeg, your dream ring will end up gorgeous.

With the cuffs closer to the pears, I'm starting to feel like the cuffs distract me from the pears. I think the cuffs should be more of an accent to the pears, rather than turning it into a 5 stone ring. I'm tempted to remove them, but I can't think of what I would replace them with. Not sure an additional petal on top would really do it. Maybe if the cuffs just engraving or something besides diamonds on them? Not feeling sure. I wish the different CADs could all use the same lighting, background, angles, etc., cause these feel a lot more different from the last round than they really should. Or maybe I've just been staring at CADs for too long...

Mentally, I'm ready to pull the trigger on this project and just get it over with. My GF is more than ready to be engaged... I fear I've dragged this on for too long. I just need enough focus to decide on the final design, and then the rest is thankfully out of my hands.

 

[Novel]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Honestly, since you are asking for opinions, overall I much prefer the CADs you posted on April 6th. To my eye it has a nicer flow and a synergy.

I brought up both sets on my screen but since the two sets of CADS have different angles and shots, it was hard to do a close comparison. But the new CADs seem to bring up the pears much higher and closer to the center stone which I do not find as pleasing, and the new angling/almost flaring of the petals does not seem to enhance the organic feel of the piece. It just doesn't seem to all come together.

And while I do like the cuffs' position in the new set of CADs, now that they are closer to the pears I think the cuffs might be more effective if they were thinned out to half their current width and either with smaller diamonds, or if you're doing any milgraining or engraving maybe just that matching embellishment and no diamonds.

Of course this is only my off-the-cuff reaction, and CADs always come off as more bulky than any finished piece would be - it is your reaction and opinion and those of your GF that really count - and with the talent and cooperation you have with Erica/JBeg, your dream ring will end up gorgeous.

With the cuffs closer to the pears, I'm starting to feel like the cuffs distract me from the pears. I think the cuffs should be more of an accent to the pears, rather than turning it into a 5 stone ring. I'm tempted to remove them, but I can't think of what I would replace them with. Not sure an additional petal on top would really do it. Maybe if the cuffs just engraving or something besides diamonds on them? Not feeling sure. I wish the different CADs could all use the same lighting, background, angles, etc., cause these feel a lot more different from the last round than they really should. Or maybe I've just been staring at CADs for too long...

Mentally, I'm ready to pull the trigger on this project and just get it over with. My GF is more than ready to be engaged... I fear I've dragged this on for too long. I just need enough focus to decide on the final design, and then the rest is thankfully out of my hands.

I agree with LD and Marymm here, that this round seems to have lost something. I think the petals have gotten out of proportion to the stone, frankly, even accounting for CAD bulk. Also, as far as viewing CADs, I know with my last round of CADs from Erica, a bunch of new angles were introduced that I'd never seen a ring from, and they kind of threw me. If I were you, I'd look at the angles you're more familiar with.

I hate to see you lose your steam on this, as you're doing an amazing and thorough job, but I can see how this round could feel so different, because they really look different. I really think there is something going on with proportions here.

 

[LD]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I'm going to be honest and say that the latest CADs are looking very masculine and chunky (I realise that the metalwork will be slimmer when made) but even so this is very bulky.

I much prefer the more delicate look you had before. A slight difference may be if you carved the side profile petals into two i.e. so they were more intricate and looked like petals rather than lumps of metal. At the moment they also obscure the side profile of the sapphire and the V that it sits in. That's a lovely look but totally hidden.

I do hope I haven't offended but unless your future intended likes solid bulky looking jewellery I would add in more feminine touches but without too much frou frou - there's a fine line!

Yeah, I kind of agree with you. I'm not sure how to make the ring look more delicate and feminine. I am kind of hoping that will magically happen when Erica turns the CADs into the actual ring, because of it being much smaller IRL and maybe not as uniform and bulky as in the CADs.

How would I carve the side petals into 2; split the end like a snake's tongue? Or layer one petal on top of another, like in the blue & platinum MC2 ring?

Ok - this is what I'd do:-

1. The pears need to be lower down. From the top view the metal surrounding the pears encroaches on the sapphire which isn't pleasing to the eye. You also need light to get to the sapphire and that would help.

2. I would personally lose the cuffs. However, I might be tempted to add a tiny bit of goldwork to the tip of the pears think two tiny leaves starting at the base of the tip of the pear with each one flaring out to the side. These need to be TINY though (and in all honesty it's an embellishment that's not required).

3. On the side profile pieces of gold the first thing I would do is to make them smaller so that you see the metal holding the sapphire. Then I'd have two leaves overlapping each other so less hard lines and more organic. A split like a snakes tongue would also work but I wouldn't want straight lines, I'd have it more organic. I haven't looked at previous CADs so I'll go and look now but it may be that I am suggesting the MC2 design.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[LD]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

This is exactly what I meant. I even like the length of the leaves as they don't encroach on the side view of the sapphire:

 

[Aoife]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I think LD has put her finger on your biggest problem: the pears are too dominant. I'm still not a fan of the cuffs+pears, but if you love the cuffs, having the pears moved away from the sapphire so they become less prominent might help. Right now, all I see when I look at the latest CAD are those pears, then the cuffs, and last and definitely least, the sapphire. Somehow, I don't think that's the balance you want!

 

[K9]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I think you've gotten really great advice, but one thing that I see that I thought should be pointed out - the petals/pears maybe appear too prominent now because the come right up next to the stone. I'm not sure if you are wanting the stone set low (I apologize as I have not read the whole post), but perhaps boosting the stone just a bit and moving both petals with pears closer so that they come just under the girdle of the stone will help. I think raising the stone will help balance the ring a bit and make it look more feminine.... of course, that's just my opinion.

I also like the cuffs, but I prefer them lower like on the previous CAD.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Steve, your ring is going to be gorgeous! I prefer the April 6 CADs as well b/c the pears are lower and the proportions look better to my eye. I would thin the cuffs (just 1 tiny row of pave each) emphasize again and again to Erica that you want the leaves as thin and sculptural as possible, and then I would carve an organic swirly leaf pattern on all the metal from the cuffs to the sapphire or pierce the petals so they are more like the fleur de lis sides of the Jewels by Erica Grace Sophie or those sketches (not sure if that makes sense...) I feel like that's what's missing. Since the plain petals won't be quite as delicate as the M&M I think the engraving or piercing will help to lighten it up and not have such a chunky modern feel.

Velouria's idea of ditching the cuffs and using the tiny leaf detail is also lovely, maybe you could have a tiny diamond burnished into each leaf?

At this point I would set a deadline, maybe April 30? to finalize the design and pull the trigger. Like any fine piece of art, jewelry is never quite perfect IMO...there is always a detail that you are considering changing...

you have put a ton of effort into this masterpiece and it will be gorgeous!

 

[Mrs.W 514]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I love the angle of the petals in this newest version and think that the angle is more natural looking, but agree that it looks a little chunky. I would, personally get rid of the cuffs and move the center petal (with the pear) down a bit from the sapphire so it once again takes center stage.
Other then that I think the ring is beautiful and your girlfriend is going to absolutely love it, especially since you have put so much thought into the design of this ring. I also think it is important to remember a lot of us on here are very picky about our jewelry so we tend to notice things a lot of people don't, myself included, so what might not look perfect to me or another poster might be perfect for your girlfriend.