Gem confusion. Error 404. Calling purple garnet owners. And whats with the orange flash?

[toomuchB]

This topic is so specific I almost feel absurd admitting that this has taken up my brain space

I purchased a couple inexpensive pieces of purple Mozambique material a few months ago, and I found that while I like them I do not have a strong opinion. I chose to keep them to live with them a while and hopefully form a stronger opinion. I trust the seller and their designation of what was trade ideal ('royal purple') versus reddish purple of good quality. I bought both kinds.

Months of living with them, still conflicted.
When comparing the ones with a touch of silk to the ones without, I really enjoy the brightness the silk adds. But paradoxically, for no logical reason, I would still pick the clean one which appears darker, if I had to.

I feel like if the 'royal purple' one was very large (over 10ct?), even if it was dark, I would be in love with it
Is the lesson that bigger = better? Or is it greed? For example...

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Regarding the 'orange flash' part in the post title, my 'royal purple' one flashes a pinkish orange (and the expected red, pink, purple). It is only apparent in daylight. I cannot capture the orangey flash on camera. For an approximation, imagine this one's bluish flash was a strongly pinkish orange.

For those with this purple material without much red/pink, does yours flash a pinkish orange? Does it flash blue (mine does not)? I assume trace elements could cause the orangey flash. But is it the norm?
Furthermore, is the blue flash in the video linked above not really there - like how cameras can pick up purple colorplay in some opals that isn't there? For example - see the disclaimer here:

0.95 CTS BLUE OPAL - LIGHTNING RIDGE- [SO5707]

Black Opal 12 x 4 x 2mm 0.95 cts Auction #539177 Opal Auctions

www.opalauctions.com

Anyone here had this kind error 404/confusion with a stone or material? Did you settle on an opinion? Does it indicate the material just doesn't do much for me? Is the core issue that I'd only love a huge one?

 

[Autumn in New England]

This is a great post, so I'm glad you decided to share! What is the carat weight on the "royal purple" one you purchased? If it's quite small, I can understand that the color might not wow you, because it may seem overly dark. But then again, mine is only 3.11ct. and it's delicious... like grape jelly.

So, I like to compare these stones to Uruguayan amethyst, because I feel like they're flip sides to the same coin. Uruguayan amethyst is deep and rich, but cool-toned. It will flash pink, blue, and purple. Purple garnet is likewise deeply saturated, but it's warm-toned. It will flash red, pink, and purple. I don't really see much blue in my stone. And I also don't see any orange at all. So that's very unique! Also, that top stone you shared is perfection... exactly how this variety should look (IMO).

 

[Autumn in New England]

Here's my stone... I got it from AJS.


It's not a pinky ring... my fingers were just too swollen at the time for it to fit normally. lol

 

[musicloveranthony]

I have a purple Mozambique origin garnet and it is absolutely purple. It is the most purple stone I've ever seen. It doesn't have any sort of tones or undertones or nuances. It's purple in every light, every angle, every setting. It's a really beautiful stone and I've never seen anything like it. Garnet is a decently dispersive stone, but the saturation of a -good- purple garnet hides most of that effect unless one manufactures instances to elicit it.

I also have a purple Mahenge origin garnet that has pink tones to it - it also throws off pink, purple, and blue flashes and there are lighting instances where it can look various shades of purple-ish. I'd say it's more lively, sparkly, and dispersive looking than the Mozambique origin stone, but it's not as interesting - it looks like most purplish sparkly stones while the Mozambique stone looks like no other stone I've seen before

 

[Autumn in New England]

Here's my Uruguayan (untreated) amethyst for comparison. Lots of indigo tones, as you can see! I still think this variety (along with the now mostly extinct Siberian material) of amethyst is the prettiest purple of all gems, and totally overlooked and undervalued. Wish you could see the glittering pleochroism in person. It's unreal. And so cheap!

 

[toomuchB]

I was expecting crickets for this kind of niche post so appreciate the responses!

This is a great post, so I'm glad you decided to share! What is the carat weight on the "royal purple" one you purchased? If it's quite small, I can understand that the color might not wow you, because it may seem overly dark. But then again, mine is only 3.11ct. and it's delicious... like grape jelly.

So, I like to compare these stones to Uruguayan amethyst, because I feel like they're flip sides to the same coin. Uruguayan amethyst is deep and rich, but cool-toned. It will flash pink, blue, and purple. Purple garnet is likewise deeply saturated, but it's warm-toned. It will flash red, pink, and purple. I don't really see much blue in my stone. And I also don't see any orange at all. So that's very unique! Also, that top stone you shared is perfection... exactly how this variety should look (IMO).

Here's my Uruguayan (untreated) amethyst for comparison. Lots of indigo tones, as you can see! I still think this variety (along with the now mostly extinct Siberian material) of amethyst is the prettiest purple of all gems, and totally overlooked and undervalued. Wish you could see the glittering pleochroism in person. It's unreal. And so cheap!

The reddish testers are about 1ct, one silky and non silky, and the 'royal purple' tester is about 1.7ct (no silk). I do not find the 'royal' one overly dark, sorry if I suggested that. Its an attractive stone. I did say that the non-silky reddish one is darker than the silky reddish one (as expected, since the silk gives a glowy effect). Despite the darkness I prefer the non-silky one - which is a bit odd for me and part of my confusion.

The 'royal' one is a well cut round. A native cut that was improved substantially but not on part with a custom cut round. Color looks a lot like yours, and I think yours is GORGEOUS, but something is not clicking with me in real life. I like it. I just don't 'get' it. Doesn't 'make my heart sing'. I prefer it to the reddish ones (which are still attractive). Maybe its the specific stone. I was intending on spending more on a large, nice one but glad I tested the waters first. I remember drooling over the AJs stones when the site was still up. I will do my best to capture the orangey flash when the sun is out. But in my experience it just shows up pink. Maybe I'll edit the image to show what I see, or get it at some strange angle. To be clear, I dislike the orangey flash, even if unique. Maybe that is affecting me more than I think.

I do love a good, deep amethyst like the one you posted. I had the same impression on the expected color flash, with these garnets being warm and amethyst cool. Actually the seller sent me a comparison photo and it was very clear that side by side the garnet was warmer than the amethyst. And, I have a cheapie windowed amethyst from the early days that would be embarrassing to post here, and as expected, side by side its clearly cooler than the 'royal purple' garnet.

 

[toomuchB]

I have a purple Mozambique origin garnet and it is absolutely purple. It is the most purple stone I've ever seen. It doesn't have any sort of tones or undertones or nuances. It's purple in every light, every angle, every setting. It's a really beautiful stone and I've never seen anything like it. Garnet is a decently dispersive stone, but the saturation of a -good- purple garnet hides most of that effect unless one manufactures instances to elicit it.

I also have a purple Mahenge origin garnet that has pink tones to it - it also throws off pink, purple, and blue flashes and there are lighting instances where it can look various shades of purple-ish. I'd say it's more lively, sparkly, and dispersive looking than the Mozambique origin stone, but it's not as interesting - it looks like most purplish sparkly stones while the Mozambique stone looks like no other stone I've seen before

Yup, there is a reason the Mozambique material is considered the gold standard for purple garnet. I don't dislike the pinkish/magenta elements of most Mozambique garnet, its moreso that I want to know what is out there and make an informed descision (whether that means to buy or not). If only I lived near trade shows or had the time to travel to Thailand and such.

The one in the IG post I shared is a Tanzanian garnet - I would be willing to forgo the origin preference for such a stone (I'm sharing a screenshot below because some dislike clicking links)

Would you say your Mozambique garnet rivals the 'purpleness' of a fine amethyst? Perhaps amethyst is more violet/blue leaning, not pure purple as you say your garnet is.

 

[seaurchin]

I would love to see a purple garnet with orange flashes!

I also like big stones and don't see anything wrong with factoring size in to your decision.

Mine is an umbalite garnet, which I assume means Tanzanian. I love the flashes of magenta under light. They're much bolder, brighter and neon than the pic below shows.

But the body color otherwise, is quite dark so I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Maybe a recut will help, I don't know.

One of the photos I took showed blue-ish flashes that I don't see otherwise (not posted).

I wouldn't pay for a setting for a gem that you don't like all that much, if that was part of the question.

Sorry if this is getting off topic.

 

[toomuchB]

I would love to see a purple garnet with orange flashes!

I also like big stones and don't see anything wrong with factoring size in to your decision.

Mine is an umbalite garnet, which I assume means Tanzanian. I love the flashes of magenta under light. They're much bolder, brighter and neon than the pic below shows.

But the body color otherwise, is quite dark so I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Maybe a recut will help, I don't know.

One of the photos I took showed blue-ish flashes that I don't see otherwise (not posted).

I wouldn't pay for a setting for a gem that you don't like all that much, if that was part of the question.

Sorry if this is getting off topic.

Not off topic at all. I don't intend to set it. This was more of a test round for the material. I did not spend much for this reason.
I seem to be a lot less sensitive to darkness than most posters here so I like your umbalite quite a bit. A recut may give it more life if you feel its missing that

 

[musicloveranthony]

Would you say your Mozambique garnet rivals the 'purpleness' of a fine amethyst? Perhaps amethyst is more violet/blue leaning, not pure purple as you say your garnet is.

I would say it's a pure purple - more pure than the very fine amethyst, since the finest amethyst are prized for having blue flash

 

[toomuchB]

Eh, I know I'm being impatient but here is an old video I dug up of the orangey flashes, which look red here. I remember thinking that they were def more orangey than the camera picked up. The bodycolor is not very accurate here. Still, I feel like this not a typical look?

Theres also a photo in the link - the second post is the vendor photo which is more accurate for bodycolor - I'd say IRL a bit darker and often a bit more pinkish depending on the lighting, esp in daylight.

Maybe I'm just being over dramatic. Will try get better footage this week.

The only reason I have this video is I sent it to my highly uninterested SO. He had no idea what I was going on about! lol!

https://imgur.com/a/iR69tSl

 

[toomuchB]

I would say it's a pure purple - more pure than the very fine amethyst, since the finest amethyst are prized for having blue flash

It sounds absolute amazing!

 

[musicloveranthony]

Eh, I know I'm being impatient but here is an old video I dug up of the orangey flashes, which look red here. I remember thinking that they were def more orangey than the camera picked up. The bodycolor is not very accurate here. Still, I feel like this not a typical look?

This looks like the Tanzanian purple garnet that I have

 

[toomuchB]

This looks like the Tanzanian purple garnet that I have

Thank you! Are you referring to the video or the still image or both?

 

[musicloveranthony]

Thank you! Are you referring to the video or the still image or both?

The video you sent - the still image you sent of the square stone looks similar to my Mozambique garnet. It's hard to tell from an image what it will actually look like in person, though

 

[toomuchB]

The video you sent - the still image you sent of the square stone looks similar to my Mozambique garnet. It's hard to tell from an image what it will actually look like in person, though

Those are the same stone - both rounds. Maybe I misunderstood you?
I will try take better photos/videos.
Perhaps what I don't like about mine is how it shifts significantly more pinkish in natural daylight. Under artificial light it loses most of its pinkish modifier and whatever flashes I perceive as bothersome. Thats when I like it most.
I really appreciate your experienced input.

 

[musicloveranthony]

Those are the same stone - both rounds. Maybe I misunderstood you?
I will try take better photos/videos.
Perhaps what I don't like about mine is how it shifts significantly more pinkish in natural daylight. Under artificial light it loses most of its pinkish modifier and whatever flashes I perceive as bothersome. Thats when I like it most.
I really appreciate your experienced input.

Sorry, my misunderstanding. The round stone you posted pic and video of looks like my Tanzanian purple garnet - which is purple-ish, not the pure purple of the Mozambique material.
You posted a link to a square shaped purple stone from Pala gems - that's what the pure purple Mozambique material looks like - it always looks purple. That could be misleading, though. It might be the light they're using for the pics and videos. You'd want to see it in several different types of light to be sure it doesn't color shift to pink

 

[toomuchB]

Sorry, my misunderstanding. The round stone you posted pic and video of looks like my Tanzanian purple garnet - which is purple-ish, not the pure purple of the Mozambique material.
You posted a link to a square shaped purple stone from Pala gems - that's what the pure purple Mozambique material looks like - it always looks purple. That could be misleading, though. It might be the light they're using for the pics and videos. You'd want to see it in several different types of light to be sure it doesn't color shift to pink

Oh I see what you meant now! I def agree that stone is miles nicer than mine, if accurately photographed and not too shifty etc etc.

Over the last few months of playing with these stones I have learned that I need to see more of this material irl before committing to a bigger purchase. lots of nuances to them.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I was expecting crickets for this kind of niche post so appreciate the responses!





The reddish testers are about 1ct, one silky and non silky, and the 'royal purple' tester is about 1.7ct (no silk). I do not find the 'royal' one overly dark, sorry if I suggested that. Its an attractive stone. I did say that the non-silky reddish one is darker than the silky reddish one (as expected, since the silk gives a glowy effect). Despite the darkness I prefer the non-silky one - which is a bit odd for me and part of my confusion.

The 'royal' one is a well cut round. A native cut that was improved substantially but not on part with a custom cut round. Color looks a lot like yours, and I think yours is GORGEOUS, but something is not clicking with me in real life. I like it. I just don't 'get' it. Doesn't 'make my heart sing'. I prefer it to the reddish ones (which are still attractive). Maybe its the specific stone. I was intending on spending more on a large, nice one but glad I tested the waters first. I remember drooling over the AJs stones when the site was still up. I will do my best to capture the orangey flash when the sun is out. But in my experience it just shows up pink. Maybe I'll edit the image to show what I see, or get it at some strange angle. To be clear, I dislike the orangey flash, even if unique. Maybe that is affecting me more than I think.

I do love a good, deep amethyst like the one you posted. I had the same impression on the expected color flash, with these garnets being warm and amethyst cool. Actually the seller sent me a comparison photo and it was very clear that side by side the garnet was warmer than the amethyst. And, I have a cheapie windowed amethyst from the early days that would be embarrassing to post here, and as expected, side by side its clearly cooler than the 'royal purple' garnet.

Yes, please take a pic! Now I'm really interested to see that orange flash. As you said, perhaps it's just this specific stone you don't love... so I say try again. It really is a beautiful variety, as @musicloveranthony mentioned.

ETA: Just saw your vid! Wow, that IS unusual, and I think it's really neat. Does it happen only under incandescent lighting? Or in daylight too?

 

[Autumn in New England]

This looks like the Tanzanian purple garnet that I have

I agree... I've seen Mahenge purple garnets that resemble OP's. I'm wondering if it's not Mozambique material after all? Could be from Eastern India (Odisha on the Bay of Bengal) as well. The find there produces warmer/redder shades.

 

[glitterata]

Eh, I know I'm being impatient but here is an old video I dug up of the orangey flashes, which look red here. I remember thinking that they were def more orangey than the camera picked up. The bodycolor is not very accurate here. Still, I feel like this not a typical look?

Theres also a photo in the link - the second post is the vendor photo which is more accurate for bodycolor - I'd say IRL a bit darker and often a bit more pinkish depending on the lighting, esp in daylight.

Maybe I'm just being over dramatic. Will try get better footage this week.

The only reason I have this video is I sent it to my highly uninterested SO. He had no idea what I was going on about! lol!

https://imgur.com/a/iR69tSl

I have a 4 carat garnet that does that. It was that was sold to me as Mozambique. It was relatively inexpensive and is not deep violet--it's a redder purple with lots of magenta flashes and the occasional red/orange flash. These pictures show the flashes; a lot of the time it just looks dark reddish purple. (Not brown, though, unlike some of the tones in these photos.) Someday I'll set it, if gold is ever cheap again.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I have a 4 carat garnet that does that. It was that was sold to me as Mozambique. It was relatively inexpensive and is not deep violet--it's a redder purple with lots of magenta flashes and the occasional red/orange flash. These pictures show the flashes; a lot of the time it just looks dark reddish purple. (Not brown, though, unlike some of the tones in these photos.) Someday I'll set it, if gold is ever cheap again.

Lovely! And she's a dead ringer for OP's stone.

 

[toomuchB]

I have a 4 carat garnet that does that. It was that was sold to me as Mozambique. It was relatively inexpensive and is not deep violet--it's a redder purple with lots of magenta flashes and the occasional red/orange flash. These pictures show the flashes; a lot of the time it just looks dark reddish purple. (Not brown, though, unlike some of the tones in these photos.) Someday I'll set it, if gold is ever cheap again.

Thank you for sharing that! Yes the effect is VERY much like the orange flash in the last photo! The overall color however is different.

It could very well be a different origin and have gotten mixed up with a Mozambique parcel.

Yes, please take a pic! Now I'm really interested to see that orange flash. As you said, perhaps it's just this specific stone you don't love... so I say try again.

It really is a beautiful variety, as @musicloveranthony mentioned.

ETA: Just saw your vid! Wow, that IS unusual, and I think it's really neat. Does it happen only under incandescent lighting? Or in daylight too?

It happens under natural light. And its not reflections of the environment, since if I'm indoors and the ratio of natural light is too high compared to artificial, it is consistently there regardless of the room I'm in.

I WANT to love this material, I think I can love it, I will give it another chance. But I would not purchase without seeing in person, esp since a future one would be a bigger and more expensive non-tester stone. And I hate returns.

 

[toomuchB]

For the sake of discussion I'm gonna double down and say it does look to me like a good - maybe not the best - royal Mozambique stone (regardless of actual origin). It's main flaw is it needs the right lighting, which it was not under in the video/pic I sent before.

This is just a test stone, so critique away. I expect to be wrong and I want to understand this material better.
Here's some photos/a video I took of it in light that works for it - ie, indoor light without much natural light.
The last image is under warm light and it has what I would think is an expected, acceptable shift.

https://imgur.com/a/7jlxPZS

Is this not fairly in-line with the nicer Mozambique material? Or is this look more in line with a purple Tanzanian/Indian garnet? If it looks Tanzanian/Indian, then what factors are you looking at to make that distinction?

That said, under natural light or when there is too much natural light, it DOES lose that Mozambique royal look, and looks like a pretty Tanzanian/Indian garnet.
It gets way more pinkish/magenta and flashes a weird pinkish orange - and just not what I want in a grape garnet. I assume a top notch purple Mozambique garnet would not lose its 'essence' in such a way in natural light?

The sun is not out so I have no chance of another video of the orangey flash at the moment.