Green diamond - irradiated??

[Gusgus]

I found this ring with a green diamond, the GIA cert says "fancy light yellow-green" but it doesn't look like that to me...im suspicious that this diamond has been color treated before since the color almost has a neon-ish tone. I've attached pics of the ring, GIA cert, and a pic of a ring I have that has an array of color treated diamonds...if you look at the second from the right diamond, the green one, it has a tone similar to the ring in question...I'd love for everyone's input on if this stone really is natural. Since it has a GIA cert that says its natural, I'm just wondering how accurate the report is.

 

[telephone89]

For reference, here is another gia light fancy yellow green
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/fancy-color/green/heart-shaped/1.06-carat-sku-172241

Here is a yellow green
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/fancy-color/green/radiant-cut/1.16-carat-sku-172465

Neither really look like the diamond in your photos.

 

[Gusgus]

For reference, here is another gia light fancy yellow green
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/fancy-color/green/heart-shaped/1.06-carat-sku-172241

Here is a yellow green
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/fancy-color/green/radiant-cut/1.16-carat-sku-172465

Neither really look like the diamond in your photos.

yep...that's why I was a little hesitant...I remember someone telling me once that a colored diamond's colors are usually listen by the most dominant colors first and all colors listed after are more secondary - so a yellow-green diamond would indicate a yellow diamond with a green tint to it. The ring I'm considering has a very strong green and almost blue tint to it.

If it were in fact irradiated, what would the cost for something like that be?

 

[telephone89]

No idea on that. I'd be wary of buying from someone who is giving you a GIA certificate that is either a) incorrect (selling a diff diamond) or b) treated AFTER they had it certified. If you just like the ring, have a caveat put into the purchase that you can have someone evaluate it and get a refund if it doesn't match. It won't, but you might be able to get an idea of what its worth from the inspection.

 

[Niel]

I thought it was the most dominent color was the last listed?

 

[iota15]

I don't know for sure, but I thought green diamonds were some of the most difficult to tell if they were natural - because the green color comes from natural radiation from the earth, irradiating it. Thus, un-natural and natural radiation come be difficult to tell apart in a green diamond.

In any event, it seems like this is a stone you are considering, but haven't bought. For a coloured diamond in that size, I would definitely get it appraised by a good coloured diamond appraiser Before sale, or send it for another certification if you were really concerned.

 

[telephone89]

I thought it was the most dominent color was the last listed?

This is correct. Either way, this diamond doesnt look yellowish at all. I can definitely see the blue, more of a mint-gum looking colour.

 

[Rockdiamond]

As Iota suggested- green is one of the most difficult colors to grade in diamonds.
GIA will generally need to see the stone in the rough these days to give it "Natural" as the color.
The alternative is "Undetermined"

The pictures do look a little too good to be true on my monitor, unless this is a very costly piece.
You mentioned that you "found" the diamond.
Where? Online, in a store? Did you check the sellers reputation?
I would be extremely cautious.
I have been shown stones with GIA reports that looked too goo to be true.
Unfortunately, irradiating, or treating a stone subsequent to a GIA report is a possibility.

Yes, most dominant color is listed last on the GIA

 

[John P]

Naturally-occurring green is frequently influenced by the earth's natural radiation. So even diamonds with radiation stains (for some time thought to be artificial) may be naturally occurring. What's interesting is that most such natural greens don't have color that penetrates deeply into the rough. With even coloration the color of yours may be attributable to gamma rays or neutrons, which have a much greater penetration depth, if your crystal was in-touch with U-rich minerals deep in the earth.

It can definitely be challenging to differentiate but GIA approaches it carefully. For decades they've tested using low-temp UV-Vis absorption spectra, stereo microscopy involving filters, illuminants and immersion, and even radioactivity measurements. In recent years they've developed even more proprietary detection. They're also being more cautious with all such analyses since MMDs have been creating a stir in recent years. In terms of oversight, no-one is better equipped than one of the major labs to pronounce "yay" or "nay" to synthetics and treatments.

I never trust photos in these matters, so I can't comment there. I would note that setting color can enrich natural colors in the right lighting and configuration.

The grading report is fairly recent. Presuming the diamond is the one described in the report the chain of custody since its grading would seem limited. Thus, presuming GIA is correct, it's a matter of trust in your expert. I wouldn't buy such an item from some shade on a corner with a trench coat and a nervous habit of looking over his shoulder and I presume you wouldn't either.

 

[Gusgus]

I found this ring from a jeweler during my recent trip to Asia, the price is around $6,000 USD but the stone definitely has some inclusions in it that are visible to the eye. The colors in the pictures are quite accurate to the actual stone. The jeweler did say that the way it's wrapped in the setting enhances the color but that the stone is in no way enhanced. I'm just a little weary that a stone can have such a unique tint to it just from the setting - like telephone89 mentioned, it's definitely got a more mint gum color to it. I haven't bought it yet and wanted to get some opinions from ya'll here before I decided on it. I really appreciate everyone's feedback so far on this!

 

[Rockdiamond]

I'm skeptical ( by nature) but it seems like a very low price for a stone of that color in a ring.....
You mentioned it's got imperfections you can see- maybe if they're really bad....

Another thing that raises my eyebrow- a setting can not produce that color in a stone.
Yellow gold is really yellow.
Green gold is far more subtle.....

 

[Niel]

I'm skeptical ( by nature) but it seems like a very low price for a stone of that color in a ring.....
You mentioned it's got imperfections you can see- maybe if they're really bad....

Another thing that raises my eyebrow- a setting can not produce that color in a stone.
Yellow gold is really yellow.
Green gold is far more subtle.....

Does it seem low for the color you are seeing or low for the color on the gia cert? Or both?

 

[momhappy]

I think that if you are skeptical, there's good reason to be…

 

[Rockdiamond]

I'm skeptical ( by nature) but it seems like a very low price for a stone of that color in a ring.....
You mentioned it's got imperfections you can see- maybe if they're really bad....

Another thing that raises my eyebrow- a setting can not produce that color in a stone.
Yellow gold is really yellow.
Green gold is far more subtle.....

Does it seem low for the color you are seeing or low for the color on the gia cert? Or both?

This is a good question Neil.
When considering Fancy Colored Diamonds, let's include considerations about the colors themselves.
Here's what I mean: Yellow is an extremely common color in nature- as is green.
But yellow is a bright color, and green is more subdued.
Think about it- what is bright green in nature? There's a few birds that are pretty bright green- but usually it's when the feathers act like little prism's. There's a lot of bright yellow objects in nature.
The sun is the brightest light in our solar system, and it appears yellow- super bright yellow.
This translates to diamonds.
A "Canary Yellow" diamond will be bright yellow.
A Fancy Vivid Green will be very green- but a much darker hue than the Vivid Yellow.

As we get lighter and lighter, the yellow diamond's advantage multiplies. Faint yellow is easier to observe than faint green
The color grade o the GIA report is important- and certainly affects the price.


But in the world of FCD's in particular, a stone's appearance will play a greater role in determining value, and desirability.

So the grade, as well as the fact that the pictures show a very green stone are reasons I'd advise caution.
The aspects of the subtle hue of green also translate into photography.
The one wild card is fluorescence.
We've had stones that turned bright green- like neon green- when exposed to heavy UV


Gusgus, what was the lighting when you took the pictures?

 

[denverappraiser]

I too am pretty skeptical. I"ve never heard of irradiating a stone after it gets a GIA and, frankly, it doesn't really make sense to me to do that but this whole story seems slightly 'off'. Are you in the US?

Can you make a clearance by GIA, at your expense, part of the condition of sale?

 

[Niel]

I'm skeptical ( by nature) but it seems like a very low price for a stone of that color in a ring.....
You mentioned it's got imperfections you can see- maybe if they're really bad....

Another thing that raises my eyebrow- a setting can not produce that color in a stone.
Yellow gold is really yellow.
Green gold is far more subtle.....

Does it seem low for the color you are seeing or low for the color on the gia cert? Or both?

This is a good question Neil.
When considering Fancy Colored Diamonds, let's include considerations about the colors themselves.
Here's what I mean: Yellow is an extremely common color in nature- as is green.
But yellow is a bright color, and green is more subdued.
Think about it- what is bright green in nature? There's a few birds that are pretty bright green- but usually it's when the feathers act like little prism's. There's a lot of bright yellow objects in nature.
The sun is the brightest light in our solar system, and it appears yellow- super bright yellow.
This translates to diamonds.
A "Canary Yellow" diamond will be bright yellow.
A Fancy Vivid Green will be very green- but a much darker hue than the Vivid Yellow.

As we get lighter and lighter, the yellow diamond's advantage multiplies. Faint yellow is easier to observe than faint green
The color grade o the GIA report is important- and certainly affects the price.


But in the world of FCD's in particular, a stone's appearance will play a greater role in determining value, and desirability.

So the grade, as well as the fact that the pictures show a very green stone are reasons I'd advise caution.
The aspects of the subtle hue of green also translate into photography.
The one wild card is fluorescence.
We've had stones that turned bright green- like neon green- when exposed to heavy UV


Gusgus, what was the lighting when you took the pictures?

So, let's say the cert is accurate and the stone hasn't been alterned sense the cert was issued. It says fancy light yellow-green. I can assume that that same stone with that same cert will command a higher premium if it actually looked like the photos above vs, say, a more olive tone?

 

[Niel]

I too am pretty skeptical. I"ve never heard of irradiating a stone after it gets a GIA and, frankly, it doesn't really make sense to me to do that but this whole story seems slightly 'off'. Are you in the US?

Can you make a clearance by GIA, at your expense, part of the condition of sale?

Would you say, if something were sketchy, that its more likely the cert doesn't match the stone? Though...that seems even riskier.

 

[Gusgus]

I'm skeptical ( by nature) but it seems like a very low price for a stone of that color in a ring.....
You mentioned it's got imperfections you can see- maybe if they're really bad....

Another thing that raises my eyebrow- a setting can not produce that color in a stone.
Yellow gold is really yellow.
Green gold is far more subtle.....

Does it seem low for the color you are seeing or low for the color on the gia cert? Or both?

This is a good question Neil.
When considering Fancy Colored Diamonds, let's include considerations about the colors themselves.
Here's what I mean: Yellow is an extremely common color in nature- as is green.
But yellow is a bright color, and green is more subdued.
Think about it- what is bright green in nature? There's a few birds that are pretty bright green- but usually it's when the feathers act like little prism's. There's a lot of bright yellow objects in nature.
The sun is the brightest light in our solar system, and it appears yellow- super bright yellow.
This translates to diamonds.
A "Canary Yellow" diamond will be bright yellow.
A Fancy Vivid Green will be very green- but a much darker hue than the Vivid Yellow.

As we get lighter and lighter, the yellow diamond's advantage multiplies. Faint yellow is easier to observe than faint green
The color grade o the GIA report is important- and certainly affects the price.


But in the world of FCD's in particular, a stone's appearance will play a greater role in determining value, and desirability.

So the grade, as well as the fact that the pictures show a very green stone are reasons I'd advise caution.
The aspects of the subtle hue of green also translate into photography.
The one wild card is fluorescence.
We've had stones that turned bright green- like neon green- when exposed to heavy UV


Gusgus, what was the lighting when you took the pictures?

The lighting was by a window under natural light on a relatively clear day. The larger heart stone is nowhere as dark and saturated as the tiny one on my pinky which for sure I know has been treated. But the reason why I'm so skeptical is because it's almost the exact same color, just a lot lighter and less saturated. Also, all the green diamonds I've ever seen have been more yellow or olive colored, so I wasn't sure if the color on this particular stone was naturally occurring.

 

[John P]

?.. the price is around $6,000 USD ...

That doesn't support its legitimacy.

Can you make a clearance by GIA, at your expense, part of the condition of sale?

Agree 100%. Worth your expense if it's verified. You could even offer: "I pay the expense if it's verified, but I'll ask you to pay the expense if it's not, since you would want to have that corrected report anyway, yes?"

 

[Gusgus]

I too am pretty skeptical. I"ve never heard of irradiating a stone after it gets a GIA and, frankly, it doesn't really make sense to me to do that but this whole story seems slightly 'off'. Are you in the US?

Can you make a clearance by GIA, at your expense, part of the condition of sale?

I'm obviously skeptical of the stone which is why I'm posting about it. But I am also very very new to colored diamonds which is why I figured turning to the forums would be helpful since I really wasn't sure if this particular shade and color is even natural occurring and since it didn't seem very yellow-green to me at all (which is what the cert states)...more blue green if anything. I'm not sure what you're getting at by saying the whole story seems slightly 'off', but yes, I'm in the US.

I'm considering that as part of the condition of the sale, but in all honesty I don't know if they'd stick to their word and how trustworthy buying jewelry in Asia is. I don't know if the market in Asia is drastically different than that here, but I was looking online after I got back and I definitely wasn't finding anything in that price range for any stones in that size and color. But the prices of rings in general are definitely cheaper in Asia since labor is a lot cheaper. So I figured I'd ask around here on the forums first and based on the opinions and experience of everyone, see if there's a possibility it's been treated and if so, if it's worth the price he's asking for it - if it hasn't been treated then score! If the consensus is to walk away from it then I obviously wouldn't want to spend my money on it. But if there's a chance that it's a good find, it's still a very pretty ring imo. I just don't want to end up buying something that's worth way less than I paid for it because it's been treated.

 

[Gusgus]

?.. the price is around $6,000 USD ...

That doesn't support its legitimacy.

Can you make a clearance by GIA, at your expense, part of the condition of sale?

Agree 100%. Worth your expense if it's verified. You could even offer: "I pay the expense if it's verified, but I'll ask you to pay the expense if it's not, since you would want to have that corrected report anyway, yes?"

The $6,000 price tag - does it seem wayyyy low for it? Even with the inclusion that I've included in the second picture? That black chunk right where the "v" of the top portion of the heart dips in, it's not that noticeable when you look at it facing front but as soon as you turn it on an angle you notice the big black chunk. Would the price seem more reasonable or even high if the stone has somehow been treated and the GIA cert isn't accurate?

I think it's a good idea to ask them to pay for the expense of the cert if it's not verified, I'm just slightly worried if they'd be willing to refund the ring =T I don't really know how things work there but it's a independent little shop so I'm just a little weary.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Gusgus- at the end of the day, only you can look seller in the eye- and look at the diamond and deal first hand.
$6k could be a great deal if the stone looks like the pictures, and there's nothing wrong with the diamond.
or it could be a bad deal if there's misrepresentation going on
I have purchased stones of the identical grade. I'm familiar with the prices.
There's no way to compare by pictures- but ours don't look "mint green"
Labor is cheaper in Asia- but 2.36ct diamonds trade at relatively consistent prices worldwide.
Even if the ring is free- $2542 per carat for a 2+ carat stone that looks is graded green, and looks green is far below market. Crazy far below.

maybe it's an amazing deal.
Maybe the imperfections are truly horrendous-
In my opinion for it to be close to market price, the imperfections would have to occupy at least 1/3 the surface area- like I2-I3 clarity
A seller asking a price well below market is a huge red flag for me, as a buyer.

 

[chrono]

Looks too fantastical a price for the quality (even if the setting is free and the inclusions are considered). Price of gemstones are generally similar around the world with Asia actually being more expensive than the US at times due to the demand, particularly for rarer stones such as diamonds and corundum.