green stones fron Jeff Davies - tourmaline or tsavorite?

[Phoenix]

Hello coloured-stone folks,

I've been admiring all the beauties on here and trying to get a coloured stone for years. My first attempt a few years ago was not successful (stones not well cut, rather dull-looking). Recently, I came across a blue-green tourmaline (that looks more green than blue) at a jewellery show that looks beautiful: cut-wise, it's gorgeous, sparkles like mad. However, it's not inexpensive and the vendor would rather I not post pics on PS. So I am looking at various alternatives and was hoping you guys could chime in and help this novice.

I came across Jeff Davies on this forum and found a few stones I like. Of notable interest are the ones listed below. I know prices are very different, so ignoring pricing for the time being I'd like to know what you think of the stones. Some input on the vendor would be welcome too.

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/454441418620639248/
(apparently, this one is quite dark IRL)

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/454441418620590477/

 

[minousbijoux]

Hiya Phoenix! Thanks for coming on over and braving the waters of Colored Stones.

So over time, we've gotten pretty good at interpreting the photos of various vendors, so we definitely can help with that. What would be good to know from you, though, is what your plans are for the stone (i.e., a lot of wear, occasional wear, pendant); and examples of colors you like. If you like those two from Jeff, I would suggest you are looking for a medium dark, pure green stone. If this sounds right, then I recommend shooting for one shade lighter in his stones.

That tsav is stunning. I've been admiring it for a while. It is a beauty, but if that's what you want, I might be tempted to look around a bit more to see if you can find something as nice for a bit less money. Check out Swalagemtraders, Primagems, and Tan's stores on ebay. If you can forgive the bowtie: http://www.swalagemtraders.com/search-gems/detail.php?pid=2404&cPage=1&sort=&perpage=8&cat=&display1=1&display2=&display3=0&category=12&variety=249&key=&match=&indicate=&reserve_type=&pagefrom=search

Another nice one, but lighter: http://www.swalagemtraders.com/search-gems/detail.php?pid=2324&cPage=1&sort=&perpage=8&cat=&display1=1&display2=&display3=0&category=12&variety=249&key=&match=&indicate=&reserve_type=&pagefrom=search

Has a window, but would likely close when set: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-53ct-Cushion-Cut-Natural-Intense-Green-Tsavorite-/331031096602?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d12fdad1a

Roger Dery: http://www.spectralgems.net/garnet-2/lg-garnettsavcush2_15ct/

Hope this helps!

Well shoot, it appears that prices have gone up.

 

[Phoenix]

Minousbijoux, thank you so much for your detailed reply and suggestions. Ha ha, I love CS and hope to own some soon.

I'd like to get a couple of RHR's and I particularly like green and pink or pinkish red. They'd be for occasional wear. To start of, I'd like a green stone. I'd love one that most resembles the richest Columbian emerald green. There was / is an auction either at Sotheby's or Christie's that had/ has the most AMAZING set of emarlds. Let me see if I can dig up the link.

I was thinking along the line of a darker green shade; but it looks like medium pure green would be a better choice. I'm just a novice so def welcome suggestions.

Do you think the Jeff Davies's tsav is too dark? It is quite stunning, but if you think it's too dark, I'd listen to you and pass on it.

I particularly like Tan's, not least because of his lower pricing (why are his prices so much lower than others'? ). As this would be my real first-ever CS, I'd like to not commit too much money on it if possible.

I have an a/c with Swalagem but can't seem to log in....still awaiting a p/w reset.

Thank you. Please keep the suggestions coming.

 

[minousbijoux]

I know it sounds silly, Phoenix, but what we try and convey, just like you all on the diamond side, is that the OP needs to figure out what they like and buy that. We can all tell you what is the most sought after from an industry standard perspective and therefore will command the highest prices, but at the end of the day, I'm a believer that its better to please yourself than to "settle" for what the industry likes...

Many stones go dark in low light, unlike diamonds. I find that with some exceptions, the darker the stone is in tone, the more likely it will be to read as dark color or just dark in low light. Nothing wrong with this, and pretty common, just another factor to be aware of. I find that stones medium dark in tone often look like they've been switched off in low light. So that would be an excellent question to ask Jeff if you were truly interested in his amazing tsav. For an occasional right hand ring, I think you are also smart to consider green tourmalines, as many of them are priced considerably better than green garnets.

Also, there is a preference for a slight blue modifier in many stones; you can likely save money if you don't necessarily want or need that slight blue tinge to a tsavorite/tourmaline/emerald. And if emeralds brought you to the world of colored stones, you may want to consider one.

One more thing to keep in mind before you give us specific criteria. Sorry if I'm preaching to the choir, here, as you probably know this already, but its not uncommon for stones to darken up when set, especially when bezel set. That is another reason many of us like the more medium in tone rather than the medium dark in tone. But can you give us examples now of rings you like, and the anticipated gem shape and size (dimensions) you want? Do you know if you want it halo'd, or side stones? Pictures as a starting point would be helpful, and again any visuals of the color you seek would help as well...

 

[pregcurious]

If you want a green stone that glows, I would shoot for an emerald. Emeralds can have a glow akin to sapphires and rubies with silk.

Green tsavorites in a medium to medium plus can look bright, but make sure that you are okay with how they look in lower light conditions. Medium dark tsavs tend to black out, which is something usually not desirable in a CS. Tsavs are easiest to find in greens with a yellow secondary color. Those with a blue secondary are usually more sought after, and can be priced higher.

Tourmaline is prone to chipping, but a green tourmaline with an open c-axis can look very pretty. (Tourmalines can also black out, but I have less experience with this.) You can find these in nice bluish greens, as well as other green colors.

 

[Phoenix]

Thank you, minousbijoux, for another detailed reply.

Ha ha, I don't know yet exactly what I like. I am still trying to explore. I really appreciate your emphasizing the point about dark stones going darker in low light. I was vaguely aware of it, but wasn't really paying close attention to it. So am happy you point it out - I don't like this effect. I'd rather a stone not go dark. Jeff has kindly sent me a comparison of his tourmaline and oval tsav. The tsav is beautiful, but has a bow-tie; the tourmaline is indeed quite dark. So they're no longer candidates. I'll ask him if he has any other tsav's in the future, that might fit the bill.

As for what shape I'd like. I prefer oval, cushion, pear, emerald-shaped - in that order. I'd like to set it into either a diamond halo (perhaps with a split shank a la CharmyPoo's LM, with a slight modification) or as a 3-stone ring with cushion sides (a la Kaleigh's LM) or trap/ Cadillac sides - perhaps with a pave shank. Depending on what stone I end up with, I may go with LM or I may go with a local jeweller. If it's the latter, it'd just be a simple setting. I hope CharmyPoo and Kaleigh won't mind my showing links to their beauties:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-dream-come-true-leon-mege-and-avc.156139/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-dream-come-true-leon-mege-and-avc.156139/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-need-your-help-with-my-oval-leon-mege-ring.52349/page-3']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-need-your-help-with-my-oval-leon-mege-ring.52349/page-3[/URL]

Size-wise, I'd love a 4 or 5ct but would be quite happy with a 2-3ct to start off with. If it is the former, most likely I'd like it in a 3-stone setting; and if the latter most likely in a halo.

As for the blue modifier, is this what you mean: these emeralds from a recent Sotheby's auction look like they have a blue modifier (it's funny, in the hard-copy version, the stones have a more velvety green look/ shade/ hue to them):
http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2013/magnificent-jewels-and-jadeite-hk0478/lot.1746.html

This stone looks more green to me:
http://www.embassyemeralds.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=&products_id=533

and this (though the vendor talks about the blue modifier, I can't really see it so much lol. The stone looks very velvety green to me, esp in the last pic):
http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/1-dot-03-gemrite-chrome-tourmaline-6-dot-75mm-x-4-dot-16mm

So I am wondering if I am understanding the blue modifier correctly? Why do people prefer a blue modifier in green stones, it doesn't make the stones more green does it? Or does give the green stones a blue tinge? In the last link, the vendor talks about the blue modifier...but am not understanding if she means the blue modifier is not so bad or does she mean the blue modifier actually enhances the predominantly green colour in the stone? I quote her: "It's just enough blue to make it the most velvety, Christmas-tree/spruce green imaginable". I think the velvety green (shade, hue - what is the appropriate lingo here? lol) is what I am looking for.

 

[Phoenix]

I'd LOVE a very velvety green Columbian emerald with no treatment but I don't understand how they're priced. In the Sotheby's link, those stones cost an absolute fortune (the winning bid is just over a USD1mil) and I've seen some IRL that are more expensively than diamonds; whereas the pear emerald from Embassy Emeralds is so much more reasonably priced. I wonder what is attributable to such remarkable pricing differences, is it?

- size: are larger emeralds much rarer and harder to source, than say diamonds?

- colour: I am sure the more green (rather than lighter minty-green) an emerald is, the more expensive it is, right?

- clarity: self-explanatory I guess.

- cut: not sure how to decipher this. Is there any tutorial or link to cut on gemstones? I think I can see the difference in cut IRL but buying on the internet, well how does one tell?

- treatment: no heat or clarity enhancement is preferred I am sure; but what about oil?

- certification: certed obviously is better but what cert would be best?

- as for luster, I have absolutely no idea how to tell

I am sure I've missed out quite a few things and would appreciate your telling me.

Thank you so much again.

 

[Phoenix]

If you want a green stone that glows, I would shoot for an emerald. Emeralds can have a glow akin to sapphires and rubies with silk.

Green tsavorites in a medium to medium plus can look bright, but make sure that you are okay with how they look in lower light conditions. Medium dark tsavs tend to black out, which is something usually not desirable in a CS. Tsavs are easiest to find in greens with a yellow secondary color. Those with a blue secondary are usually more sought after, and can be priced higher.

Tourmaline is prone to chipping, but a green tourmaline with an open c-axis can look very pretty. (Tourmalines can also black out, but I have less experience with this.) You can find these in nice bluish greens, as well as other green colors.

Pregcurious, thank you for your input and suggestions.

What do you mean by "emeralds can have a glow akin to sapphires and rubies with silk"? I'm not quite sure what "silk" is, am going to research it but would appreciate your telling me. Clearly, my knowledge of coloured gemstones is rather lacking, ha ha...

I'd love a more greenish tsav or emerald. I have a feeling I'd prefer the blue modifier to yellow. And it looks like medium is the way to go.

Also, what do you mean by a c-axis/ an open c-axis? Ha ha, clearly there's quite a bit for me to learn here.

Thank you.

 

[minousbijoux]

Okay, Phoenix, time to assign you homework! You are asking great questions, so time for you to read the tutorial written by LD, and added to by a host of others. It can be found here: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

I don't know where to start in terms of answering your questions. Maybe by explaining that colored stones are more complicated than diamonds - that is, the rules are different depending on the stone type. For example, some stones are remarkably clean, or inclusion free, like tanzanite (zoisite) and some are riddled with stuff like emeralds. In fact, emeralds are so famous for their inclusions that they have been given a special name of "jardin" from the French word for garden (since they often look plant or jungle like since the stones are green). Then, there are stones that vary, depending upon the color. For example, tourmaline, where its relatively easy to find a clean, inclusion free, stone in the blue green family, but not one in the red family; rubellite tourmalines are notoriously included.

Blue in green stones is really a matter of preference, sorta like the way some people like OECs and some people like H&As (hope thats a good analogy, as some day I'll be over in your neck of the woods asking for your help on diamonds and you will realize how little I know, lol). Another thing is the tone or lightness or darkness of a stone. Industry standard tends to favor those stones where the color is clearly visible. However, there are many beautiful, vividly saturated stones that read as dark but when the light hits them, they flash amazing color. I see this often in sapphires. Occasionally, someone comes on here looking for one of these stones, and I applaud them knowing that they will likely be saving considerable money because they seek something outside the preference of industry parameters, if that makes sense. So the first thing is to figure out what your personal preference is in the way of color. Take green for example, which runs from yellowish green to bluish green in hue. Some people have a preference for one end of the spectrum, and some for the other. I will see if I can dig up examples of each for you so you can compare.

If you are serious about emeralds, there are many threads you might want to read on them, but basically, they almost warrant their own pinned thread. Suffice it to say that you are right: emerald price depends upon size, quality, color, level of inclusions, origin and, one of the most significant, level of treatment. Since emeralds are born of this world with the vast majority included, the gem industry has figured out many ways of treating them to alleviate the inclusions - everything from oiling them, all the way up to invasive treatments such as foreign fillers like resins/polymers. This is why there is a large price differential.

As for tourmalines, as long as you like the color looking down on the stone and find it light enough for you, then you don't really need to worry about the c axis (tourmaline crystals grow in long sticks or tube-like crystals; If you were to hold up the stick to light and look through the long end like a telescope, you'd be looking through its c axis. Often, this view is dark with little to no light getting through. This is what is known as a "closed c"). The fact of the matter is that the ones who worry about this are the cutters who cut the stones appropriately and typically cut the rough so that the c axis is oriented in such a manner that it has no bearing on the finished gem. In other words, they would likely orient this axis so that the only way you could see it is to look at the stone through the pavilion, which would be covered by the setting anyway.

Okay, totally confused now? Sorry, I really didn't mean to. Please read a little and remember this and this only: think about what you like in terms of dark or light and in color family (yellow green to blue green). Thats' the best place to start.

 

[pregcurious]

Good questions. Before you spend more than $1K on a colored stone, it might be best to see a bunch in person. It doesn't have to be a green stone. Instead, pick something like blue sapphire, which is a commonly marketed CS in the US. Go to a bunch of top end stores and see as many as you can. You'll start to realize how much variation there is to colored stones versus white diamonds. White diamonds in a top "color" (D-E-F) are so common that they are basically a commodity at the sizes that most people buy them. Top color colored stones, even in the same smaller sizes, are very difficult to find. In addition, the hue of the stone is not the only thing that affects the color in a CS. Silk, and fluorescence can also affect color.

Silk refers to fine rutile inclusions that cause the light to diffuse in a stone. A top sapphire or ruby will have enough silk to diffuse the light within the stone, canceling out areas of extinction, which makes the stone look like it "glows" instead of just scintillates like a diamond; the color will also seem like it is very even in a top gem with just the right amount of silk. Top colors in colored stones are usually vivid, medium-dark shades, which are too dark to show good scintillation. Scintillation is what people look for in a white diamond. It's not to say that colored stones cannot scintillate, but instead of say that a CS _can_ glow. You don't want too much silk, however, because then the stone will look "milky" or included. You can read about how silk (needle like inclusions) can help color, and see an illustration about different shades of green in the first article:
http://www.palagems.com/quality_4cs.htm
http://www.palagems.com/sapphire_connoisseurship.htm

I've noticed that emeralds with fine inclusions also have that kind of glow. There's also a different phenomenon explained here, which is truly rare:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-gote-de-aceite.186733/#post-3402103#p3402103']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-gote-de-aceite.186733/#post-3402103#p3402103[/URL]
http://www.emeraldpassion.com/sample.htm

As for an open c-axis:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/open-c-axis.174751/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/open-c-axis.174751/[/URL]

 

[chrono]

Minou and Pregcurious have pointed you in the right direction with regards to basic knowledge and terminology. Know that coloured stones are actually rarer and more difficult to purchase than diamonds. Pricing also varies a lot more so you need to understand how to judge quality and the pricing for that quality. Since you are looking to spend quite a bit, I think it is best to attend a gem show or two first. Just see the variety of colours, cut, gem types, etc out there to get a feel of what you like and what you don't like.

Emerald: treatment matters and fine quality untreated 1 ct could cost up to $6000/ct.
Tourmaline: chromes are typically small and dark. Forget trying to get a 4 to 5 ct chrome tourmaline. Regular tourmaline is fine but even when precision cut, aren't sparkly due to their lower refractive index compared to garnets.
Tsavorite: never treated and are typically very clean. However, fine quality tsavorite are not inexpensive. Expect to pay over $10,000 for a 4 carat tsavorite that is medium dark with a blue modifier and top saturation.

 

[pregcurious]

Phoenix, I am guessing from your diamond collection that you have a decent budget for this green stone. If you do, please go big and post pictures . If I had a great budget, I'd go for a 3-4 carat bluish green emerald with that glow. Emeralds are less dense than diamonds, so for the same carat weight and proportional cut, they will "face up" larger than a diamond. In colored stones, face up size is as important (or more so) than carat weight because there is no "standard" cut in colored stones. Some stones will be cut very deep, which results in a smaller face up size (and therefore smaller appearance) than those that are cut more shallow. If a stone is cut too shallow, however, it will have a window. For emeralds, that have a low refractive index, a window will be more obvious.

You will want to get familiar with how to recognize a good cut in a colored stoned. If you read the stickied thread for newcomers to the Cs forum, there's some great info there. Pala also has great resources. You can Google "pala" and then whatever you are looking for about a gem.

I have been looking for a holy grail green stone for quite a long time, and I have not seen anything I like in a tourmaline, and cannot afford what I want in an emerald. As for tsavs, they have been very hard to come by lately.

 

[Phoenix]

minousbijoux,

I typed out this long reply and lost it - ugh!!

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. I love learning and am enjoying reading very much everything you've written, together with the link you posted.

I find that I am drawn more and more towards the green emeralds with a very slight blue modifier, and am more fond of the ligher hues too (but not too light).

I came across this stone at a jewellery show yesterday. It's quite lovely. Am not sure about the price though, USD13.5k for just the 3.15ct emerald, and it's not Columbian emerald but Zambian. It has these inclusions across it, quite visible when louped. I am loving the word "jardin".

Actually, the origin is something else I'll need to learn more about. Not sure why Columbian emeralds are much more pricey and seem to be more desirable. I did come across some very very pricey Columbian emeralds (even more expensive than diamonds) at a show I went to a few months ago and they were absolutely delish. I'll see if I can dig up the picture.

 

[chrono]

Typically, and the key word is typically, Columbian emeralds have better colouration than Zambian emerald, which is why there is a slight premium for the Columbian origin. As usual, this will depend on a stone by stone basis though so buy the stone, not the location. It seems like you've seen a fine Columbian emerald in person before and if so, you can understand the reason for the higher pricing. They just glow that wonderful, rich and velvety green becoming a touch more bluish indoors.

When it comes to clarity, throw the loupe out. With coloured stones, eye clean is the standard. With emeralds, aim for as clean as possible since eye clean will very challenging. So if it doesn't have any distracting inclusions without using a loupe, you are good to go.

 

[slksapphire]

phoenix,

welcome to the world of colored stones!!! i have admired your diamond pretties from afar and love your choices.

as for colored stones, as you are learning quickly, it is a whole new world. i spent about a year looking for a fine sapphire and this forum was invaluable. a few things you may be interested in:

- there was a recent discussion on gem-quality pricing for ruby, sapphire and emerald. you can search for it but if i recall correctly, sapphire was the "cheapest" at over $10,000/ct and ruby the most expensive at over $20,000/ct (of course, fine color and no treatments). the question here is "what is gem-quality?"

- i'm sure you've read about the agl prestige report for colored gemstones. it is very helpful to see an OBJECTIVE grading of color (both hue and tone), cutting AND other factors like origin, etc. best of all, chris smith provides an overall grade for the stone of excellent, very good, good, etc. if you are getting a high value stone, this report is a no brainer, in my opinion. you can see samples of the report on pricescope as well as via google.

- unlike diamonds, i think it is much more difficult to consign or sell colored gems in the secondary market. so trading up in the future, etc will likely be quite difficult. just a consideration in terms of buying a "forever" green gemstone now or a "starter" piece.

- finally, i seem to vaguely recall that you live in asia. if so, and you have the time/interest to see a bunch of fabulous gemstones all at the same time, the gem fair in hong kong is one of the largest and most well attended. you will, however, need to find a contact to get you access (i think) as i don't think it is open to individuals (though i may be wrong about this).

- ETA: the reason i suggest the gem show is that in general (assuming little/no treatment), colored stone pricing is determined by color and very subtle differences can have a huge impact on pricing. that's why it's so helpful so see a bunch of stones side-by-side, a la at a gem fair.

good luck and can't wait to see what you decide!

 

[Phoenix]

These are the high-end Columbian emeralds I came across recently. I'd really really love the third one on the left...I don't know why yet, it's just that my eyes seem to prefer it ha ha.. It's very velvety, it glows and the colour/ hue is very appealing to me...

Not buying it any time soon though or maybe even ever - it's super expensive!

 

[Phoenix]

pregcurious,

Thank you for your detailed reply and links. Wow, I see you've set me a bunch of homework lol!

There's sooo much to learn on CS. I like!!

 

[Phoenix]

[quote="Chrono. Know that coloured stones are actually rarer and more difficult to purchase than diamonds. .[/quote]

Chrono,

Thank you for your input and suggestions. I absolutely agree with you and it's not just because I am a CS novice, ha ha!

I'm beginning to look around at CS's and have attended two shows recently, and I have another one to go to next week, yay!

Am tending more towards emeralds. The high-end ones I came across recently actually have a higher cost per carat than $6k. Could you possibly please link me to fine quality emeralds that you like?

I thought I was going to buy a tourmaline and there's actually one that I quite like(d) but the vendor won't allow me to post about it, not even the pics; and am reluctant to buy without input from you guys. So I guess that one is out. Tsav's are nice too, but I guess if I am set (well, pretty set) on an emerald; I shouldn't also be looking at tsav's right?

 

[chrono]

You've seen a 1 ct emerald going for more than $6000? Of course if it is more than 1 ct, the price per ct will go up as well. Tsavorites are certainly different but by all means, look at those too. Who knows, you might end up liking tsavorites on their own merit.

 

[pregcurious]

Do you mean #3 here?


I personally love tourmalines even though they tend to lack the glow of emeralds, and the brilliance of tsavorites. Sometimes, you'll see a tourmaline with an open c-axis that is very bright. Several years ago, there were paraiba or cuprian (copper bearing) tourmalines that just glowed, but these are now very rare. I think they only exist as part of people's collections now, or one-offs. There's an article here from Pala.

http://www.palagems.com/paraiba.htm

 

[pregcurious]

Here is silksapphire's story of finding her sapphire at the Hong Kong show. Silksapphire's sapphire is probably one of the top sapphires on this forum, based on what is valued by the trade. Everyone has their own preferences for colored stones, but I have to say I love silksapphire's stone!

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-dream-sapphire-found.172133/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-dream-sapphire-found.172133/[/URL]

 

[Phoenix]

Do you mean #3 here?


I personally love tourmalines even though they tend to lack the glow of emeralds, and the brilliance of tsavorites. Sometimes, you'll see a tourmaline with an open c-axis that is very bright. Several years ago, there were paraiba or cuprian (copper bearing) tourmalines that just glowed, but these are now very rare. I think they only exist as part of people's collections now, or one-offs. There's an article here from Pala.

http://www.palagems.com/paraiba.htm

It's actually # 2 on your picture, though I wouldn't say no to stone #3, ha ha...

I guess I haven't come across any tourmalines yet that glow like emeralds. There was a tourmaline that I love but it's just not comparable to emeralds...but remember I am only a novice, ha ha.

I am going to ask the vendors about tourmalines with an open c-axis, now that I know what that is!

BUT I don't know about cuprian (copper bearing) tourmalines. I've seen some paraiba but they don't seem to glow. I see I've still got tons to learn!

 

[Phoenix]

You've seen a 1 ct emerald going for more than $6000? Of course if it is more than 1 ct, the price per ct will go up as well. Tsavorites are certainly different but by all means, look at those too. Who knows, you might end up liking tsavorites on their own merit.

Yanno, I'm speaking from memory so will need to double check with the vendors re pricing. These stones in the pic I posted (the row of emeralds) are very very expensive. They're all about 4ct and above.

I'm for sure going to check out some more tsav's. There was someone I knew with a supposedly high-end tsav which is actually quite dull-looking. I saw some at a show on Friday but they didn't bowl me over. Mind you, I haven't seen enough to make any kind of blanket statement and even then blanket statements are usually just that, blanket and not applicable in all cases. For sure, I'll keep an open mind. Bling ogling is oh so hard to do but I shall persevere!!

 

[minousbijoux]

Do you mean #3 here?


I personally love tourmalines even though they tend to lack the glow of emeralds, and the brilliance of tsavorites. Sometimes, you'll see a tourmaline with an open c-axis that is very bright. Several years ago, there were paraiba or cuprian (copper bearing) tourmalines that just glowed, but these are now very rare. I think they only exist as part of people's collections now, or one-offs. There's an article here from Pala.

http://www.palagems.com/paraiba.htm

It's actually # 2 on your picture, though I wouldn't say no to stone #3, ha ha...

I guess I haven't come across any tourmalines yet that glow like emeralds. There was a tourmaline that I love but it's just not comparable to emeralds...but remember I am only a novice, ha ha.

I am going to ask the vendors about tourmalines with an open c-axis, now that I know what that is!

BUT I don't know about cuprian (copper bearing) tourmalines. I've seen some paraiba but they don't seem to glow. I see I've still got tons to learn!)

By all means ask about open c axis in tourmalines, but know that the stone, if cut well, does not have to have an open c to be beautiful. In other words, if you can't notice it, why do you care if its open or closed? That's the important point you should keep in mind.

As to copper-bearing tourmaline, that is a whole 'nother kettle of fish! The good ones are beautiful and truly glowy, but watch out as so many now find tourmalines with a bit of copper in them, and slap on the cuprian title, whether or not there is any glow in the stone. If you decide to go in this direction, just let us know and we can have your head spinning about copper-bearing stones!

 

[pregcurious]

I agree with Minou. With CS stones, the way it looks with your eyes is more important than anything else. A true Paraiba should shock you with how bright it is. Otherwise, it's just another tourmaline with some copper.

 

[chrono]

I haven't come across any rich deep green tourmaline that glow like emeralds either. As for an open or closed c axis, you can see it with your own eyes. A closed c axis tourmaline will have 2 sides or ends that are darker, almost blackish. An open c axis tourmaline will have the same colour and brightness evenly spread across the stone. If the copper bearing tourmaline you've seen don't glow, then they are not true paraibas but called as such by the vendor in order to justify their high asking price. A high quality paraiba looks fake or like a synthetic stone that is radioactive.

For a high quality 4 carat untreated emerald, of course you'll be paying more than $6k/ct, even more than $10k/ct. You'll know the right tsavorite when you see it. Many are too dark in tone but there are some lovely medium dark toned tsavorite out there.

 

[Phoenix]

My bad, I got the prices of those emeralds I posted previously very very wrong! They're USD7,500 per carat. I went to a jewellery show today and double-checked with the vendor who was showing them again.

Anyway, I am considering either the cushion or the oval shown below. There's quite a sizeable price difference between the two. Can you guys guess which is more expensive? They're both supposed to have "insignificant' or "minor" oil treatment and they're both Columbian. One has a GRS cert whereas the other one is not certed.

Oh, they're from different vendors btw.

ETA: I hope I am not making a mistake buying either one of these stones now. Maybe I should wait for you guys to recommend one to me (?).

 

[Phoenix]

In the meantime, I put down a deposit on this lot (the smaller ones) - very inexpensive, only $200 per ct. Columbian also.

I am thinking of having them set into a bracelet similar to the ones shown below.

What do you guys think?

 

[Phoenix]

I agree with Minou. With CS stones, the way it looks with your eyes is more important than anything else. A true Paraiba should shock you with how bright it is. Otherwise, it's just another tourmaline with some copper.

I still haven't seen any great Paraiba. But saw lots of other stones today that I liked!

 

[chrono]

If I am spending a significant amount of money on a gem, I would not buy one without a lab memo and even then, I would go for a high tier lab such as GIA, AGL, SSEF and Gubelin. In terms of which stone to pick, I don't know how accurate your pictures are and also back to the first point, no lab report = not buying it. Another thing I noticed is that the higher quality the emerald, the worse it photographs.

As for the parcel, do you have enough stones that match in size and colour and shape to make a bracelet? I noticed that they aren't all pears or the same size.