Group Think...

[MichelleCarmen]

...

 

[Pandora II]

You will always get group think on forums to a certain extent.

I do have issues with it at times especially when I see a few very vocal members put forward views and information that are not really correct and then I see a lot of people very disappointed when they can't find stones that fit x parameter that really is an impossible ask in the first place.

It's a very hard thing for a vendor to then come and correct any assumptions without it seeming that they are either promoting themselves or knocking other people's stones!

 

[galeteia]

Eh, I also think it's more like-mindedness than groupthink, because I've been on some boards with some hardcore groupthinkers and it's a lot more abrupt- a sudden deviation to another planet Dissenters tend to be turned on, hyena-pack style, whereas here people will readily call someone out for personal attacks on dissenters.

I've been here for a few years and am not an consistent poster, as a lot of topics blur together, TBH. What might be seen as groupthink is just the byproduct of topics being hashed out to death and consensus being reached through prior argument. Less lively debate if people aren't interested in debating anymore.

 

[VRBeauty]

*please excuse the interruption*

Galateia - I noticed that you're no. 1 on the LIW list - are you still a LIW?

Back to the discussion at hand!

 

[iheartscience]

I think there's a difference between groupthink and like-mindedness.

Regarding issues of diamond cut, I don't think most PSers believe cut is king just because they want to avoid conflict and reach a consensus without any critical analysis of the issue, which would be groupthink. Rather, I think most PSers believe arrive at the conclusion that cut is king after analyzing the optical effect of varying cut qualities on a diamond's performance. The fact that most of us reach the same conclusion is like-mindedness, in my opinion.

I also think it's amusing that in the RT thread in question, the OP essentially accused us of groupthink, but is now considering purchasing a good cut stone to have it recut in the hopes that it will become an ideal cut stone. Can I get a HA-HA?! Maybe it's me, but that struck me as funny.

As far as other issues are concerned, I really believe that any general consensus we reach here on the boards is due to like-mindedness, as well, and not groupthink.

Ditto! Deciding that it's groupthink for a bunch of diamond lovers to tell someone to pass on a poorly cut stone is ridiculous. If you ask a group of discerning fill-in-the-blank lovers about a subpar fill-in-the-blank, you're obviously going to get answers telling you not to go for the subpar fill-in-the-blank.

As for non-diamond topics, I do think that for the most part PSers are somewhat similar. There's a fair amount of diversity, but overall I do think that PSers tend to be intelligent and/or highly educated, just because those qualities tend to correlate with income. And of course income tends to correlate with the ability to purchase luxury items. Plus smart people tend to do research before making big purchases, which is how most of us ended up on PS.

I'm sure there are plenty of other fora (see how I did that to sound extra smart? ) with intelligent posters. (PS is the only forum I post on or even visit, though.) Really just having regular access to the internet implies a certain level of income. Computers and internet service are expensive!

 

[zoebartlett]

I think that PS is often times subject to the "group think."

I say this because I am one of the very few who doesn't have a college degree, doesn't have a great job, live in a rural place where neighbors are rednecks and proud to be. Because I'm so different from the majority of PSers, I think I see it more clearly.

Obviously there is a group think regarding stats and vendors for our passion, diamonds and gemstones. But, there's more than that. Finances, credit, careers, education, marital values are just the first topic that comes to mind when I think of Group Think here.

You know I love you all, that's why I'm here. I don't think anyone is mean-spirited. It seems most PSers are liberal, but at the same time close-minded to a lot of discussions.

I'll come sit by you SS. I feel like an outsider on those topics..like the kid who gets picked last at games.

Make it a threesome! I'm basically a lurker now cause I can't seem to fit into the cliques. I really don't want to, actually, and find joy in looking at the photos mostly. I've learned so much from CS and I'm grateful.

This is an honest question but what cliques? I don't see them. Maybe a long time ago, but not recently.

 

[zoebartlett]

I think there's a difference between groupthink and like-mindedness.

As far as other issues are concerned, I really believe that any general consensus we reach here on the boards is due to like-mindedness, as well, and not groupthink.

This is what I wanted to say but couldn't get the wording right. Thanks Haven!

 

[AmeliaG]

Ditto! Deciding that it's groupthink for a bunch of diamond lovers to tell someone to pass on a poorly cut stone is ridiculous.

With all due respect, it's not ridiculous if it doesn't answer the question the OP asked and the question he asked which boiled down to 'how do you estimate the value of a diamond that only has a GIA report?. That's a pretty valid question regardless of the cut quality of a diamond.

This is probably the most consistent trait I've seen in RT is that responders ignore the original question the OP asked. It's not that newbies are closed-minded but they come with a question in mind so it's human nature, they're going to be looking for the answer to their question first. Once the question is answered, they're often more open to hearing other suggestions.

It is a measure of disrespect and the proof of which is that some responders got really annoyed when the OP started to ignore their posts. They felt ignored and disrespected and they were right; he was disrespecting them. However, they did not see that their very first posts were ignoring the OP in the same manner that he later ignored them so IMO it was rather the pot calling the kettle black.

At that point, it seemed rather ingenious to complain of the OPs rudeness.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ameila, it would have been virtually impossible for us to answer than poster's question about what we'd pay for the "good cut" stone in question without explaining why. Some people said it was worth zero to them and they wouldn't buy it at any price. I suggested $5000 twice. But I feel it was informative and for the benefit of the forum readers for us to explain why we valued it the way we did. None of us wanted to spend thousands of dollars on a mediocre diamond. Some of us were willing to buy it for a low price and recut it, but that incurs some risk. I think the question absolutely WAS answered. The OP maybe didn't like the replies at first, but the last I read he was open to the recut idea. We would have done him a disservice to have answered in any other way.

 

[galeteia]

*please excuse the interruption*

Galateia - I noticed that you're no. 1 on the LIW list - are you still a LIW?

Back to the discussion at hand!

Yes. SO's PhD got delayed by another year , so it's two years minimum that we're facing before we have the funds to do a proper engagement + reception.

Ah well, at least we won't be nervous about it when it finally comes along, right?

 

[Kaleigh]

When I first joined perhaps yes. We were so passionate about cut is king and the like.. Great debates went on...


Over the years, I haven't seen it as much. But then again, I am not here to the extent I was before. So not a GBCPS kind of thing with me...

I am just bored here.... It's not the PS that made me think.. Not the PS that challenged me...


PS is what you put into it... I could try harder but I simply don't have the time nor the energy... I love the new comers, they are awesome..

And I do know many long timers feel the same, but can only talk on my own behalf.

 

[4ever]

I defiantly feel the group think on PS, as a person who is very sensitive to other peoples opinions IRL, I do fall for the group think very easily.

Like a lot of people, I just want to make a good purchase and it is very easy to fall into using want ever vendors seem popular at the time and for whatever item is popular also - because there are so many people on here affirmong that that is good (weather or not they have the item themselves or have used that vendor themselves.)

Last time I purchased something after PS "research" (almost 2 years ago now) I went through BGD (who were a reasonaly new company at the time but everyone was prasing) and I got a H&A J SI2 bezel pendant - all very much what was "in" on PS at the time (The style and the high cut with low colour and eyeclean). I think I would have chosen slightly different setting if I wasn't so exposed to all the bezel pendant settings at the time. This time I'm going for the martini studs and again, these seem to be the new in setting on PS. Furthermore, I have paid more then I really need to to get these from WF instead of finding a wholesaler of these settings or getting them hand made for cheaper because they "wouldn't be the same" as the ones with good reviews on PS so they might not be as nice Yes, I am kicking myself for that now.

I know PS has trends, which is fine, I don't think this can be helped because everywhere there are people who will take risks and get something new and if it turn out to be gorgeous, lots of other people will see it and do that same: wala, trend! No different to real life.
What I don't like is people making recommendations without any personal experience what so ever and not mentioning that they have no personal experience with this. For example if some one asks for vendor recommendations, I don't like it when people just spout of a bunch of PS vendors and say they're good when the person recommending them has no experience - I think this creates a groupthink and promotes a BUZZ about a vendor that they are fantastic 100% of the time and discorages criticism or less glowing reviews.

 

[iheartscience]

Ameila, it would have been virtually impossible for us to answer than poster's question about what we'd pay for the "good cut" stone in question without explaining why. Some people said it was worth zero to them and they wouldn't buy it at any price. I suggested $5000 twice. But I feel it was informative and for the benefit of the forum readers for us to explain why we valued it the way we did. None of us wanted to spend thousands of dollars on a mediocre diamond. Some of us were willing to buy it for a low price and recut it, but that incurs some risk. I think the question absolutely WAS answered. The OP maybe didn't like the replies at first, but the last I read he was open to the recut idea. We would have done him a disservice to have answered in any other way.

This is exactly the way I see it. The OP got a few answers early in the thread regarding price, but mostly ignored those and focused on fighting with and being rude to the people telling him to pass on the stone. I wasn't involved in the thread so have no stake in it personally, but I also thought the OP was rude, and his rudeness was uncalled for.

Being rude because you don't like the answers you're getting on an internet forum is absurd. If you post on a forum you are going to get responses from any members who feel like responding, and those responses will contain whatever those members feel like typing. It's just the way the internet works-nothing to get all nasty about.

Plus a forum of diamond consumers (with no marketplace feature) isn't a very good place to ask for a price on a diamond. Furthermore, the OP originally had next to no information on the diamond, making it an even harder question to answer.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I defiantly feel the group think on PS, as a person who is very sensitive to other peoples opinions IRL, I do fall for the group think very easily.

Like a lot of people, I just want to make a good purchase and it is very easy to fall into using want ever vendors seem popular at the time and for whatever item is popular also - because there are so many people on here affirmong that that is good (weather or not they have the item themselves or have used that vendor themselves.)

Last time I purchased something after PS "research" (almost 2 years ago now) I went through BGD (who were a reasonaly new company at the time but everyone was prasing) and I got a H&A J SI2 bezel pendant - all very much what was "in" on PS at the time (The style and the high cut with low colour and eyeclean). I think I would have chosen slightly different setting if I wasn't so exposed to all the bezel pendant settings at the time. This time I'm going for the martini studs and again, these seem to be the new in setting on PS. Furthermore, I have paid more then I really need to to get these from WF instead of finding a wholesaler of these settings or getting them hand made for cheaper because they "wouldn't be the same" as the ones with good reviews on PS so they might not be as nice Yes, I am kicking myself for that now.

I know PS has trends, which is fine, I don't think this can be helped because everywhere there are people who will take risks and get something new and if it turn out to be gorgeous, lots of other people will see it and do that same: wala, trend! No different to real life.
What I don't like is people making recommendations without any personal experience what so ever and not mentioning that they have no personal experience with this. For example if some one asks for vendor recommendations, I don't like it when people just spout of a bunch of PS vendors and say they're good when the person recommending them has no experience - I think this creates a groupthink and promotes a BUZZ about a vendor that they are fantastic 100% of the time and discorages criticism or less glowing reviews.

Just wanted to comment that I can also have earrings set locally in simple settings for $100-130. However, I chose to have WF set my studs both times because I know they take on the risk of any potential damage to the stone. Then they came to me already set and ready to be added to insurance. The extra $45 or so was worth it to me to save me from the hassle of taking the diamonds somewhere to set without insurance.

I agree that it is best to recommend jewelers/vendors we have personally worked with when possible. I almost always do because firsthand experience is the best recommendation. However, I am open to recommending new vendors such as Steven Kirsch because of the experience of those who have used him and can compare his work favorably with someone else that I have used.

 

[loriken214]

I think that PS is often times subject to the "group think."

I say this because I am one of the very few who doesn't have a college degree, doesn't have a great job, live in a rural place where neighbors are rednecks and proud to be. Because I'm so different from the majority of PSers, I think I see it more clearly.

Obviously there is a group think regarding stats and vendors for our passion, diamonds and gemstones. But, there's more than that. Finances, credit, careers, education, marital values are just the first topic that comes to mind when I think of Group Think here.

You know I love you all, that's why I'm here. I don't think anyone is mean-spirited. It seems most PSers are liberal, but at the same time close-minded to a lot of discussions.

I'll come sit by you SS. I feel like an outsider on those topics..like the kid who gets picked last at games.

Make it a threesome! I'm basically a lurker now cause I can't seem to fit into the cliques. I really don't want to, actually, and find joy in looking at the photos mostly. I've learned so much from CS and I'm grateful.

This is an honest question but what cliques? I don't see them. Maybe a long time ago, but not recently.

You're right, Zoe, the cliques have gone....I'm seeing it now. That's how long it has been that I've been paying attention to PS...other than CS and Royal Jewels. I've made some AMESOME friends, due to finding PS, and I wouldn't trade them for anything.

Lori

 

[zoebartlett]

Lori -- I'm sorry, I wasn't saying you're wrong, just that *I* haven't noticed any cliques. They could still exist and I might just be oblivious. Hey, it's happened once or twice!

 

[loriken214]

No, Zoe, I agree with you! I'm starting to pay attention and I'm seeing a mix of opinions and attitudes....more acceptance and I like it!

Lori

 

[VRBeauty]

Apparently the notion of "groupthink" was brought up in RT, a forum I rarely follow. But, like many "hangout" threads, it's brought out a lot of other permutations, such the idea of cliques in PS.

I think there was a bit of a mutual admiration society operating for a while - in part because there were a lot of people who had come to know each other over time, and in part because some people were thoughtless enough to start threads that invited "I lke/respect so-and-so soooo much" type discussions. I'll admit to being a bit politically correct in calling that type of thread "thoughtless" - but maybe it really wasn't obvious to them where a discussion that started with "which PS'er..." would end up? Or maybe they were started by newcomers who weren't familiar with forum group dynamics? I'm glad that I haven't seen any of those pop up threads in a while.

Others have mentioned feeling like they're not part of the group for various reasons, such as people not responding to their posts. I can only speak for myself, but I don't feel the need to respond to every post I agree or disagree with - nor do I see the point. Sometimes someone else has articulated my thoughts far better than I ever could, sometimes my thoughts just aren't focused enough to participate in the discussion, sometimes I just don't care enough about the topic. Rarely, someone says something I feel strongly about, and says it so well that I'll chime in with some version of "me too." But not often, because I don't think that a lot of "me too's" contribute to the discussion. (And that's the beauty of most threads - they are discussions, not votes, so it's not a matter of winners and losers.) It's very rare that my comments or decision to comment are influenced by who posted something rather than what they said - and when that's the case, it's most likely because they seem to need the support.

I have a few threads floating out there that where in which I'm practically the only poster. I don't take that as a sign that I'm an outsider - maybe I should? - but that the topic just didn't strike a chord. And that's OK. I keep some of them going anyway, just because I feel like it!

 

[AmeliaG]

Ameila, it would have been virtually impossible for us to answer than poster's question about what we'd pay for the "good cut" stone in question without explaining why. Some people said it was worth zero to them and they wouldn't buy it at any price. ... We would have done him a disservice to have answered in any other way.

Diamondseeker. I interpreted his question as 'What is a good/fair price for this diamond because I'm getting this from a friend and I don't want to overpay but I don't want to cheat her either' which seems like a reasonable interpretation and the question seemed reasonable. There were a couple of members who recommended appraisals but I think their voices got drowned out some rather charged replies to pass on it. This is my concern when highly charged posts that may not add anything to the discussion overshadow the really useful information in a thread.

The same was true initially with the excellent suggestion to have the diamond re-cut. It took awhile to sink in because by then the OP and a lot of people had gotten offended and insulted and this is the unavoidable side effect of an exchange of highly emotional posts. In hindsight, if the OP had been smart, he would have ignored the hyperbole and just focused on getting his question answered but when he did start to ignore people, they got insulted and called him up on it. So he was in a no-win situation.

 

[VRBeauty]

Yes. SO's PhD got delayed by another year , so it's two years minimum that we're facing before we have the funds to do a proper engagement + reception.

Ah well, at least we won't be nervous about it when it finally comes along, right?

I'm sorry to hear that, Galateia! Maybe it's a good thing you two had to spend so much time apart... you're in danger of becoming an 'old married couple" before you even get engaged!

 

[AmeliaG]

However, I am open to recommending new vendors such as Steven Kirsch because of the experience of those who have used him and can compare his work favorably with someone else that I have used.

I agree with this. This can be the benefit of taking advantage of other PSers experience and collective knowledge. On fancy cuts, I have no problem recommending Good Old Gold although I haven't personally bought from them because I've seen the tools, support and guidance that Jonathan offers to buyers of fancy cuts and he has very high recommendations from people who've used his services.

I think in this case, its simply because its so hard to evaluate a fancy cut by the numbers. As many members have said, you have to see them to judge and I think most people on RT have more experience with round brilliants.

I don't like to leave someone hanging like the newbie recently looking for help on marquise which isn't exactly a cut that's taking the diamond world by storm nowadays.

 

[AmeliaG]

Plus a forum of diamond consumers (with no marketplace feature) isn't a very good place to ask for a price on a diamond. Furthermore, the OP originally had next to no information on the diamond, making it an even harder question to answer.

Wow, that would have been very helpful info thing2of2. If that's the truth, that kinda concerns me though. I don't want to threadjack though so I'll leave it at that.

I agree with you that a lot of the emotional responses were understandable - once it started it was hard to stop unfortunately. I think the OP was civil enough in his first couple of posts but he got annoyed when his question got doubted and downplayed which is regrettable but also understandable.

I don't want to beat the horse to death because it's over - the apparent disregard about appraisals and difficulty of just determining the value of a diamond just really struck an alarming chord with me.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I know PS has trends, which is fine, I don't think this can be helped because everywhere there are people who will take risks and get something new and if it turn out to be gorgeous, lots of other people will see it and do that same: wala, trend! No different to real life.
What I don't like is people making recommendations without any personal experience what so ever and not mentioning that they have no personal experience with this. For example if some one asks for vendor recommendations, I don't like it when people just spout of a bunch of PS vendors and say they're good when the person recommending them has no experience - I think this creates a groupthink and promotes a BUZZ about a vendor that they are fantastic 100% of the time and discorages criticism or less glowing reviews.

agree with you on that point. i do not recommend any vendor that i haven't purchased from in the past.

 

[Dancing Fire]

This is exactly the way I see it. The OP got a few answers early in the thread regarding price, but mostly ignored those and focused on fighting with and being rude to the people telling him to pass on the stone. I wasn't involved in the thread so have no stake in it personally, but I also thought the OP was rude, and his rudeness was uncalled for.

Being rude because you don't like the answers you're getting on an internet forum is absurd. If you post on a forum you are going to get responses from any members who feel like responding, and those responses will contain whatever those members feel like typing. It's just the way the internet works-nothing to get all nasty about.

i love talking to a rude person,cuz if i turn out to be right (in this case i was ) i love rubbing S**T in his face..

 

[Allison D.]

Ditto! Deciding that it's groupthink for a bunch of diamond lovers to tell someone to pass on a poorly cut stone is ridiculous.

With all due respect, it's not ridiculous if it doesn't answer the question the OP asked and the question he asked which boiled down to 'how do you estimate the value of a diamond that only has a GIA report?. That's a pretty valid question regardless of the cut quality of a diamond.

This is probably the most consistent trait I've seen in RT is that responders ignore the original question the OP asked. It's not that newbies are closed-minded but they come with a question in mind so it's human nature, they're going to be looking for the answer to their question first. Once the question is answered, they're often more open to hearing other suggestions.

Amelia, I respectfully disagree.

Several people DID answer the question; it just wasn't the answer he wanted. He wanted a dollar figure, and he was asking a group of people who really couldn't fairly answer the question (more on that below). People said "you should take it to an appraiser", and that seemed to me a way of saying "I'm not sure, but here's who could tell you."

Since most folks here don't shop in that segment of the market, it would be harder to accurately project what a diamond of that make should run. If he were asking how much a 1ct, H, SI1 AGS000 diamond should run, people here would have a pretty good handle on the answer because they have experience with that segment of the market. Similarly speaking, I'm pretty well versed in what a used Toyota Highlander should run, but I couldn't remotely tell you the approximate worth of a used Hyundai or a used Bugatti....especially if the only "data" presented was "the owner said it was in good condition".

True, some did also offer their opinion that it wasn't worth the buy, but as a visitor to a public forum, one should expect that there will be some commentary. A simple "thanks, but that's not what I'm after" would have done fine. It would be far less inflammatory and likely more fruitful to just take in what's useful and merely bypass the rest.

As pointed out, several people did answer to the best of their ability with a dollar amount.........and they were ignored by the OP. That doesn't seem like a way to encourage more responders.

 

[Allison D.]

Re the groupthink comment: to me, that's a bit ridiculous too.

It stands to reason that if you ask a bunch of like-minded people a question, most of them will answer similarly. If you want a true cross-section of opinions, then you need to go to a spot that represents a cross-section of the market. PS is *not* a true cross-section of the market; it's populated mostly by people who've all learned about cut and value the effect it has. If you don't care about what cut-philes think, then it's probably better to ask non cut-philes.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

In retrospect, I believe I should have responded a little more "like the group" in a more civil fashion which is (usually) characteristic on this forum, instead of offering profanities. To the "group" and gentle readers--I apologize.

cheers--Sharon

 

[4ever]

I know PS has trends, which is fine, I don't think this can be helped because everywhere there are people who will take risks and get something new and if it turn out to be gorgeous, lots of other people will see it and do that same: wala, trend! No different to real life.
What I don't like is people making recommendations without any personal experience what so ever and not mentioning that they have no personal experience with this. For example if some one asks for vendor recommendations, I don't like it when people just spout of a bunch of PS vendors and say they're good when the person recommending them has no experience - I think this creates a groupthink and promotes a BUZZ about a vendor that they are fantastic 100% of the time and discorages criticism or less glowing reviews.

agree with you on that point. i do not recommend any vendor that i haven't purchased from in the past.

I don't necessarily think that no one should suggest a vendor they haven't personally worked with, I just some times get the feeling that there are a bunch of little PS parrots out their spouting off recommendations from what they have read elsewhere on PS because they are excited and want to comment on a thread, I'm sure I did it when I was new. *shrugs*

 

[Allison D.]

I know PS has trends, which is fine, I don't think this can be helped because everywhere there are people who will take risks and get something new and if it turn out to be gorgeous, lots of other people will see it and do that same: wala, trend! No different to real life.
What I don't like is people making recommendations without any personal experience what so ever and not mentioning that they have no personal experience with this. For example if some one asks for vendor recommendations, I don't like it when people just spout of a bunch of PS vendors and say they're good when the person recommending them has no experience - I think this creates a groupthink and promotes a BUZZ about a vendor that they are fantastic 100% of the time and discorages criticism or less glowing reviews.

agree with you on that point. i do not recommend any vendor that i haven't purchased from in the past.

I don't necessarily think that no one should suggest a vendor they haven't personally worked with, I just some times get the feeling that there are a bunch of little PS parrots out their spouting off recommendations from what they have read elsewhere on PS because they are excited and want to comment on a thread, I'm sure I did it when I was new. *shrugs*

Can't say I agree with this. In my group of RL friends, 4 have all used a roofing contractor with fantastic results. I'd imagine all the rest of us would happily recommend him to coworkers, etc, and I don't see anything wrong with doing so. I know through my association with friends (who I know have the same value criteria I do) that this guy does great work; there's no reason not to recommend him. Of course, my recommendation is usually "hey, I haven't used this guy yet, but I have 4 friends who have and are completed thrilled with his work."

I've been on the receiving end of such recommendations, too, and they were much better than taking a shot in the dark myself.

 

[iheartscience]

Plus a forum of diamond consumers (with no marketplace feature) isn't a very good place to ask for a price on a diamond. Furthermore, the OP originally had next to no information on the diamond, making it an even harder question to answer.

Wow, that would have been very helpful info thing2of2. If that's the truth, that kinda concerns me though. I don't want to threadjack though so I'll leave it at that.

I agree with you that a lot of the emotional responses were understandable - once it started it was hard to stop unfortunately. I think the OP was civil enough in his first couple of posts but he got annoyed when his question got doubted and downplayed which is regrettable but also understandable.

I don't want to beat the horse to death because it's over - the apparent disregard about appraisals and difficulty of just determining the value of a diamond just really struck an alarming chord with me.

I don't understand what concerns you. What are you referring to? Do you mean my statement that PS consumers aren't a good source for finding out the price of a secondhand stones? Or that the OP didn't have any info?

If it's the first, I think a reputable appraiser, eBay or an online diamond marketplace would have been better resources for values of secondhand diamonds than a bunch of cut nuts on PS. If it's the second, he did add more info on the stone later in the thread.

As for appraisals, I didn't see what you saw in that thread. Many PSers get all of their pieces independently appraised and have posted about it in the past. I do think many appraisals are fairly useless (and denverappraiser himself seems to agree), and have gotten a useless one myself before I came across PS. That said, because the OP was on PS and was conversing with a reputable appraiser, he should have asked for recommendations for good appraisers in his area.