H&A better than Excellent Cut?

[MarionC]

I got my Hearts & Arrows today via FedEx. I was really excited to open the box, prepared to see an amazing stone. I'm confused. To the naked eye I can't distinguish any difference at all from my "old" diamond. [In the photos it seems that there might be a very slight difference, but in reality the light performance is the same].

They are both the same size, one is D the other E, both are VVS2
Should I be able to see more of a difference?
I got my daughter a H&A for Christmas and it WAS an amazing stone.
thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[thadanim]

As an untrained eye to me it looks from the second picture that the H&A ring is the one to the right, maybe I am completely wrong but I think it would help to get an idea from a newbie too compared to what the experts have to say.

 

[WinkHPD]

I got my Hearts & Arrows today via FedEx. I was really excited to open the box, prepared to see an amazing stone. I'm confused. To the naked eye I can't distinguish any difference at all from my "old" diamond. [In the photos it seems that there might be a very slight difference, but in reality the light performance is the same].

They are both the same size, one is D the other E, both are VVS2
Should I be able to see more of a difference?
I got my daughter a H&A for Christmas and it WAS an amazing stone.
thanks in advance for any insight.

It is possible to have a fairly dull stone that exhibits Hearts and Arrows. It is also possible to have an extraordinary looking diamond that does not exhibit Hearts and Arrows. Generally it takes a fair amount of effort to create the Hearts and Arrows pattern, but it can be done to a stone will all the wrong angles too.

I was a little confused looking at the picture of the two ring side by side by the scratches on the shanks above the diamonds. Then looking a little harder it appears that those are reflections of your hair, correct?

Any way, it is entirely possible that you have a very beautiful diamond already and the new one is looking equally beautiful, which is why you are not noticing a difference. If you could arrange to see the one you gave your daughter side by side with your two stones that you have now, then you could see if your new stone is a dud or if your existing stone just happens to be fabulous.

Wink

 

[Cricketcat]

Hello, this was an experience I had. I have a GIA XXX diamond. It is fabulous in every way, but I truly wanted a "hearts and arrows" diamond. So, I ordered one from a PS vendor and was so excited thinking I would be completely blown away by it. When I received it, and looked at it, it did nothing for me. I took the hearts and arrows viewer that came with the "hearts and arrows" diamond and put it over my GIA diamond. My GIA diamond arrows pattern was superior to the arrows pattern of the "hearts and arrows" diamond (not sure what the hearts look like as the diamond is already set), so back the "hearts and arrows" diamond went. I still want a "hearts and arrows" diamond for the sake of having a "hearts and arrows" diamond, but have become comfortable knowing I really like my "GIA" diamond and it is a fabulously performing diamond and any additional diamond I would purchase would need to at least equal the GIA in performance. Good luck.

 

[c-k]

I believe there is much confusion in what makes an H&A's diamonds, I don't believe there are any industry standards with specifications other than what specific vendors designate as their own Hearts & Arrows diamonds. Whiteflash has their 'A Cut Above' H&A's and have a page or 2 on web site explaining. Brian Gavin Diamonds has his Signature 'Cut Beyond Brilliant' H&A, Infinity has their H&A, GOG has their's....

HRD has done several articles on H&A, also Brian Gavin and others. There are more and more vendors selling what they call H&A's diamonds. Personally I believe that true Hearts & Arrows need to meet the standards that HRD, Whiteflash and Brian Gavin Diamonds use and a few others that may use the same. Maybe some day they will be graded by GIA or AGSL

When you look at stones that Whiteflash and Brian Gavin Diamonds have that they call Hearts & Arrows all are AGSL Ideal Cut stones. You can buy AGSL Ideal cut stones that are not branded, are not designated H&A's (unbranded), I think many would make the branded H&A's.

AGSL Ideal cut seem to be the choice for specific vendors for the much more restrictive grading. GIA Excellent cut is a very wide scope.

Are H&A's better in any way, on paper, in the mind, maybe or maybe not. You do pay a premium, only you can decide....

 

[MarionC]

I was a little confused looking at the picture of the two ring side by side by the scratches on the shanks above the diamonds. Then looking a little harder it appears that those are reflections of your hair, correct?

Any way, it is entirely possible that you have a very beautiful diamond already and the new one is looking equally beautiful, which is why you are not noticing a difference. If you could arrange to see the one you gave your daughter side by side with your two stones that you have now, then you could see if your new stone is a dud or if your existing stone just happens to be fabulous.

Wink

Wink, thanks for your input. [and yes, that is a reflection on the bands].

I think that's what's happening; my mind has been diamonized. The "old" stone was beautiful and in my quest to push to an even greater performance I got the second stone, but the first was hard to beat.

Both of these stones [and also my daughter's] are from James Allen and I've been quite pleased with JA. I've gotten 2 pair of earrings, a couple of stones I sent back to buy bigger ones, my little Asscher and the diamonds sitting in front of me now.

I just had an idea while taking more photos - if I can't choose, these would make a great pair of earrings and would solve the problem of making a decision.

My Tazo Tea Box Twins.

 

[denverappraiser]

H&A is about symmetry. ‘Excellent cut’ is about proportions with a modifier for polish and symmetry. They’re related but they aren’t the same thing.

It’s rather like asking if red cars go faster. Anecdotally they probably do, because people who buy fast cars seem to like red ones and the people who make and sell them understand that. So is red better? I suppose if you like red, yes it is, but it’s not by definition. Some people like the look of the arrows and they like the symbolism of the hearts. They like the precision. Some people like the exclusive sort of nature for the whole thing. Those are all fine reasons to buy them but no, these do not necessarily make them ‘better’.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I think that's what's happening; my mind has been diamonized. The "old" stone was beautiful and in my quest to push to an even greater performance I got the second stone, but the first was hard to beat.

I think it is important to remember that just because the GIA EX cut grade is broader and more forgiving than AGS 0, doesn't mean that a particular GIA EX is not a top performer. Or in fact that it is not H&A. But it is true that cutters generally will put just enough attention and sacrifice just enough weight to hit GIA EX without attempting to remove excess leakage and tune the stone to the precision of a super ideal.

And the differences between a typical GIA EX and a super ideal may be very stark when viewing light performance images, whereas in real life the stones can look quite similar, especially in full illumination. The advantages of a super ideal over a well cut diamond are somewhat subtle and are probably most appreciated in low light situations where optimized light handling capabilities can make a big difference in beauty. Precision cutting also enables the diamond to maintain a higher level of performance between cleanings.

There are VERY good reasons to want a top performing H&A diamond. But in some circumstances the difference between precision cutting and really good cutting is not that obvious.

 

[MarionC]

Hello, this was an experience I had. I have a GIA XXX diamond. It is fabulous in every way, but I truly wanted a "hearts and arrows" diamond. So, I ordered one from a PS vendor and was so excited thinking I would be completely blown away by it. ......... Good luck.

Thanks! Guess it's all part of the learning process, which, the further I get into it, the more endless it seems to become!

 

[MarionC]

I think that's what's happening; my mind has been diamonized. The "old" stone was beautiful and in my quest to push to an even greater performance I got the second stone, but the first was hard to beat.

There are VERY good reasons to want a top performing H&A diamond. But in some circumstances the difference between precision cutting and really good cutting is not that obvious.

Texas Leaguer,

I haven't looked thru the little scopce that lets you see the H&A yet, so I'm fairly sure the H&A will appear more "organized". Perhaps that will make me love it more. Other than mind/emotion, what are the very good reasons for wanting a H&A? Now that I've seen an Ex and a H&A together that look the same I wouldn't care.

I discovered the HCA tool over the weekend. The Excellent stone scores a 1 and the H&A stones scores a 2. I then read that H&A often score a 2.
Why is that?

Both stones are keepers. I wish I could buy a drawer full of stones to research! It's all extremely fascinating stuff.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Hello, this was an experience I had. I have a GIA XXX diamond. It is fabulous in every way, but I truly wanted a "hearts and arrows" diamond. So, I ordered one from a PS vendor and was so excited thinking I would be completely blown away by it.

This happened with me, as well. After my H&A diamonds arrived, I compared them to my eng. diamond, which isn't H&A and I basically discovered I have a really well cut diamond and that I lucked out in choosing that one before I knew anything about H&A (prior to PS). The only comparison I had prior to that was when I compared my stone to a HOF diamond of the same size and couldn't tell the difference, either.

That said, I have some diamonds which are not as well cut and that is where the H&A do look incredibly better than an average diamond.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I think that's what's happening; my mind has been diamonized. The "old" stone was beautiful and in my quest to push to an even greater performance I got the second stone, but the first was hard to beat.

There are VERY good reasons to want a top performing H&A diamond. But in some circumstances the difference between precision cutting and really good cutting is not that obvious.

Texas Leaguer,

I haven't looked thru the little scopce that lets you see the H&A yet, so I'm fairly sure the H&A will appear more "organized". Perhaps that will make me love it more. Other than mind/emotion, what are the very good reasons for wanting a H&A? Now that I've seen an Ex and a H&A together that look the same I wouldn't care.

I would say that the main advantage of buying a top H&A is that the diamond is properly “tuned”.
You can think of it in terms of cars or computers. You might have a lot of horsepower under the hood, but you will not get full performance if the engine is not tuned properly or if the hard drive is fragmented.

Again, when comparing a very well cut diamond to a super ideal, the differences may be subtle, especially to a casual observer and especially in full illumination. But over the range of viewing conditions that we encounter in real life, diamonds with superior faceting precision will outperform others. When you think about even a subtle performance boost over the course of thousands of viewings over the course of years, that adds up to a substantial benefit!

It is important to mention that a diamond can have great H&A while at the same time suffering from performance deficits due to proportioning, clarity issues or other factors. The beauty of a true super ideal is that you have the best of all worlds and peak performance under all conditions.