Harry Winston or LOGR

[T L]

[quote="Michael_E|1299709827|2868435]Yes, some of the Chinese settings are passable for their price point, BUT not a single one of them can compare to a HW setting or one made by a custom maker, be they in the U.S., Europe, OR China.[/quote]

Let me just preface that I'm not saying that an LOGR can compare to a HW, as I have not compared them in person. However, I have compared my LOGR's to other custom pieces, and I personally do think they can compare. That's your opinion Michael, but you state it as a fact. Maybe in your opinion you don't think they can compare, but I do. As with anything there are a wide variety of custom makers, and many have varying skill sets, so to make a sweeping generalization that not a single mass produced Chinese setting can compare to one made by a custom maker, is a bit of a stretch. JMO. I've seen very poor to very high quality custom work, and I think the Chinese settings can fit somewhere in there. Even among my own Chinese settings, I have some with poor quality and some with excellent quality.

 

[LaurenThePartier]

I know it's been said, but even the best of bench people can't make a macro picture of an LOGR look like a HW classic halo, IMO. Close enough to fool everyday layman? Sure.

Yes, my benchman has become increasingly talented with the pointy prongs, but having an LOGR (a ring that T&Co sells as a bezel for crying out loud) mistaken across a jewelry case by a T&Co employee just means that the employee isn't paying close enough attention to the details, IMO.

That being said, if I had the budget for a 5 ct. cushion, I'm sending that bad boy to JBEG, Leon, one of his former benchmen, WF, or BGD. Just my approach, though. I know many of us would place a very highly prized stone in a much less expensive setting, just for the sake of being able to wear it and enjoy it. Nothing wrong with either philosophy.

 

[LD]

Highly opinionated? Yes but that goes for the trade experts also!!!! It'd be a dull world if we couldn't have a healthy debate from time to time I don't know who is classed as being less knowledgeable or more knowledgeable. I think everybody has their own niche interest that they probably know a bit more about than the majority but certainly far less in other areas than others! It's a constant learning process.

In terms of this thread - I don't think Vapid is trolling anything. If you're comparing photos only there are similarities AND to the average man/woman in the street who doesn't buy jewellery often, looking at the LOGR/HW they'd be hard pressed to see the differences. I agree that closer inspection and knowing what to look for does highlight the differences (in the pictures) - isn't that the point of this thread or have I completely missed the point?

 

[VapidLapid]

LD you're right on topic. The point of the thread wasn't who can find Waldo, its more who is Waldo anyway what's different about him and why does he think he's better than the rest of us. It was intended to start a higher level discussion.

 

[T L]

Look at the uneven bezel, head shape, millgrain, badly uneven prongs. I'm sorry, but do I think the cheap Chinese settings are comparable, yes, I do. I've seen these rings in person too. Thanks, I'll keep my LOGR's for several thousand less. That being said, I would never compare the quality of my settings to a Leon, or someone who does fabulous custom work, but for what they are, they are very good value for the money, especially when I see Tiffany selling something very comparable.

This is from Tiffany's own website.

 

[LaurenThePartier]

Look at the uneven bezel, head shape, millgrain, badly uneven prongs. I'm sorry, but do I think the cheap Chinese settings are comparable, yes, I do. I've seen these rings in person too. Thanks, I'll keep my LOGR's for several thousand less. That being said, I would never compare the quality of my settings to a Leon, or someone who does fabulous custom work, but for what they are, they are very good value for the money, especially when I see Tiffany selling something very comparable.

This is from Tiffany's own website.

I just knew this pic was going to come up, TL! I wish I had the pic of Cellantini's blue topaz + Quest LOGR to post as a comparison, because you're absolutely right on that count. I would actually believe that the person who is QA'ing photographs on T&Co's site is probably not a jewelery lover/aficianado either. Very few non-jewelry aficianados are going to scrutinize that pic in as much details as we do here on PS.

 

[T L]

Look at the uneven bezel, head shape, millgrain, badly uneven prongs. I'm sorry, but do I think the cheap Chinese settings are comparable, yes, I do. I've seen these rings in person too. Thanks, I'll keep my LOGR's for several thousand less. That being said, I would never compare the quality of my settings to a Leon, or someone who does fabulous custom work, but for what they are, they are very good value for the money, especially when I see Tiffany selling something very comparable.

This is from Tiffany's own website.

I just knew this pic was going to come up, TL! I wish I had the pic of Cellantini's blue topaz + Quest LOGR to post as a comparison, because you're absolutely right on that count. I would actually believe that the person who is QA'ing photographs on T&Co's site is probably not a jewelery lover/aficianado either. Very few non-jewelry aficianados are going to scrutinize that pic in as much details as we do here on PS.

Cellentani's blue topaz was amazingly well done, and I have some Legacy LOGR's that are fabulous and look ten times the price I paid, but again, for a company like Tiffany with such an important reputation, to be putting out material like this, and in their print ads, tells me they're so convinced of their name, they dont' care anymore about quality on all of their pieces. Some Tiffany pieces are well executed, but I feel for what they charge, all of them should be.

Let's just face the fact that the people running these high profile jewelry companies are no longer the same innovative and quality conscious people that founded them. As a result, quality will sometimes deteriorate.

 

[LD]

I came across Cell's lovely ring the other day - think it has been posted quite recently. Just tried to search but have drawn a blank. Will keep looking because it would be interesting to do a side by side comparison (if Cell doesn't mind).

 

[LD]

Found it ......... I don't think Cell has it anymore, but here's a side by side comparison. I know which I'd prefer!

 

[T L]

Here's a close up of Cellentani's ring before and after setting the stone. I think it's important to show the close up as I do think it's a beautiful setting, especially for the price point.

I don't know if Cell upgraded the diamonds on hers, but I did on my white gold 8x8 legacy (the same as Cell's), and I compared it in person to a real Tiffany legacy and I could see no eye visible difference in quality of the melee. I'm planning on setting it with a different stone at some point. I don't like the center stone in it, but I will take photos of the setting with my new amazing super focus camera when I get a chance.

 

[T L]

Here's a couple photos of my two tone legacy 9mm ring taken with my old camera, and I know the stones are sitting in there (it's set with the green tourmaline right now), but as you can see, the melee are very nice, and the millgrain is done just well for one of these "cheapie LOGR's." It has split prongs. This setting cost around $500, and that was around a year ago. It would cost more now, but I still think that it's a great value, especially for the quality. It certainly doesn't justify Tiffany charging around $7K for that ring above.

 

[T L]

On the flip side of the coin, I think this setting is the reason that LOGR's and other "cheapie" ebay settings get a bad rap. This is the 7x7 LOGR legacy with the very obviously overused mold. From far away, it's acceptable. I set it with a tourmaline that I'm not sure of has treatment, so I didn't worry about getting an awesome setting for it. The setting is atrocious up close, but it does the job. I like looking at the stone color, which overpowers the setting anyways. The diamonds were not upgraded, so they are obviously not clean, and kind of ewww. This was taken with my new camera.

 

[lavatea]

On the flip side of the coin, I think this setting is the reason that LOGR's and other "cheapie" ebay settings get a bad rap. This is the 7x7 LOGR legacy with the very obviously overused mold. From far away, it's acceptable. I set it with a tourmaline that I'm not sure of has treatment, so I didn't worry about getting an awesome setting for it. The setting is atrocious up close, but it does the job. I like looking at the stone color, which overpowers the setting anyways. The diamonds were not upgraded, so they are obviously not clean, and kind of ewww. This was taken with my new camera.

Just a quick side question - Could you have sent that back? I would have cried if I had received that. Not acceptable at all, IMO - I don't care if it was $100.

 

[Arkteia]

[quote="Michael_E|1299709827|2868435]Yes, some of the Chinese settings are passable for their price point, BUT not a single one of them can compare to a HW setting or one made by a custom maker, be they in the U.S., Europe, OR China.

Let me just preface that I'm not saying that an LOGR can compare to a HW, as I have not compared them in person. However, I have compared my LOGR's to other custom pieces, and I personally do think they can compare. That's your opinion Michael, but you state it as a fact. Maybe in your opinion you don't think they can compare, but I do. As with anything there are a wide variety of custom makers, and many have varying skill sets, so to make a sweeping generalization that not a single mass produced Chinese setting can compare to one made by a custom maker, is a bit of a stretch. JMO. I've seen very poor to very high quality custom work, and I think the Chinese settings can fit somewhere in there. Even among my own Chinese settings, I have some with poor quality and some with excellent quality.[/quote][/quote]

Funny, I have made this post twice and twice deleted it for fear of being misunderstood. (It was me who said that the mere fact that we were unsure whether it was LOGR or Harry Winston was telling.) Many clothing designers now have lines made in China. Maybe a specialist will be able to tell, but I am not a specialist Perhaps a specialist will be able to tell that it is Harry Winston because of the prongs (close look), but a layperson will not. From afar they both look beautiful.

 

[T L]

On the flip side of the coin, I think this setting is the reason that LOGR's and other "cheapie" ebay settings get a bad rap. This is the 7x7 LOGR legacy with the very obviously overused mold. From far away, it's acceptable. I set it with a tourmaline that I'm not sure of has treatment, so I didn't worry about getting an awesome setting for it. The setting is atrocious up close, but it does the job. I like looking at the stone color, which overpowers the setting anyways. The diamonds were not upgraded, so they are obviously not clean, and kind of ewww. This was taken with my new camera.

Just a quick side question - Could you have sent that back? I would have cried if I had received that. Not acceptable at all, IMO - I don't care if it was $100.

It was around $120, so for the gold and diamonds, I wasn't complaining. From arms length, it does the job. It actually looked nicer when I first got it, but I had another stone in there that my jeweler did a shoddy job bezeling. I had it taken out, and as a result, new prongs, but I didn't get it replated with rhodium (too expensive). If you win LOGR auctions, as I did with this setting, you do take your chances, and he does charge a $30 restocking fee for returns if you have it resized or anything changed on it, which I did. It wasn't worth sending back.

I actually got several compliments on it so far, but it was because the stone is so eye catching. In the past, not sure about now, but if you paid at least $400 for a setting and upgraded the diamonds, you could be assured of a beautiful setting. I have LOGR settings I would compare with rings in my fancy jeweler's case. If you won an auction, especially at a low auction final price, you were taking your chances.

Here's the same photo, but from much further away, and in my opinion, the stone is the main draw. The diamonds sparkle just enough, but the setting is definitely not the star of the ring. It's just a holder.

 

[chrono]

This thread is actually informative. It goes to show than there is a range of quality even by the same Chinese vendor. The quality of Cellentani’s bezel Legacy is really very good and surpasses many Stuller settings!

 

[lavatea]

It is really informative. But it puts me off even more from buying LOGR. I've considered it at some length, but if there is that large of a range in quality with recourse only if you pay a restocking fee, plus shipping, etc, I don't know that I can justify even attempting to buy from them. To keep it even more OT, I wouldn't buy from HW, either. I'm too poor (and also cheap) to do that. I'd much pre

fer to work with danielm or someone instead.

My ering is Ritani, but that's not quite up there with HW. I'm very pleased with the quality, though. I attempted to buy a similar Ritani setting from a B&M store, and they did such a shoddy job switching out the round head for a pear that I took it back and got my money refunded. Ended up finding PS through the whole ordeal and worked with Pearlmans instead. Much better experience and end result (I believe they had Ritani set the stone instead of having their own benchman switch out the head). Anyway, I'm off on a tangent now.

 

[T L]

It is really informative. But it puts me off even more from buying LOGR. I've considered it at some length, but if there is that large of a range in quality with recourse only if you pay a restocking fee, plus shipping, etc, I don't know that I can justify even attempting to buy from them. To keep it even more OT, I wouldn't buy from HW, either. I'm too poor (and also cheap) to do that. I'd much pre

fer to work with danielm or someone instead.

My ering is Ritani, but that's not quite up there with HW. I'm very pleased with the quality, though. I attempted to buy a similar Ritani setting from a B&M store, and they did such a shoddy job switching out the round head for a pear that I took it back and got my money refunded. Ended up finding PS through the whole ordeal and worked with Pearlmans instead. Much better experience and end result (I believe they had Ritani set the stone instead of having their own benchman switch out the head). Anyway, I'm off on a tangent now.

Would I recommend LOGR for someone that expects Leon or comparative quality? Absolutely not. Would I recommend LOGR for someone that wants a certain look on a very tight budget, sure. Also, in the context of this thread, I am comparing an LOGR to a not so well done Tiffany piece it's trying to emulate, and people can't really spot differences that justify a $7K price differential, in person (for me) and in these photos. I also have several lanbo settings as well, and I get compliments on them all the time. The "cheapie" ebay settings fill a niche for people, and they do a good job at it. I'm not saying everyone should buy one as there are different tastes in settings, but for some of us, they allow us to enjoy our gemstones and save thousands at the same time, while producing something lovely to the eye.

I just wanted to show my real shoddy 7x7mm setting, as I don't want people to think I'm biased toward these settings, as they do have their faults, just as some of these high end retailers have their faults. No one is perfect, and unfortunately, as this thread suggests, you don't always get what you pay for.

I apologize for bringing the thread from HW to Tiffany, but I think many more of us had exposure to Tiffany as they seem to have more stores, and they are more accessible to the regular public.

 

[Michael_E]

Highly opinionated? Yes but that goes for the trade experts also!!!! It'd be a dull world if we couldn't have a healthy debate from time to time

I've been thinking about this and you are absolutely right LD. Twenty plus years of fixing problems has given me and other members of the trade, (notice I didn't say "expert"...don't want to make any claims I can't back up), a "nose" for potential trouble. For instance,while everyone is showing pictures of the top side of rings I always look at the underside first. No, I'm not checking to see what sex it is. I am checking to see how much hollowing is done to the shanks and how far down that hollowing goes. I don't look at prong tips, but at their base, (very hard to see in pictures). I look for smaller things like porosity in critical areas, sufficient thickness and surface finish in areas that are critical, but don't show in pictures. I think that the difference between many of our views comes from where we are looking.

In terms of this thread - I don't think Vapid is trolling anything.

Sure he is, he dangled the bait and we all bit. We need more smileys, I'd suggest a dangling fish on a fishing line for starters.

 

[CharmyPoo]

First off - I didn't read the whole thread but wanted to throw in my two cents anyways.

Background: Owner of many LOGR settings, several Leon rings and other high-end custom jewelers, T&CO rings, cartier rings, and frequent looker of the Harry Winston Micropave setting.

Conclusion: Simply cannot compare LOGR settings with high-end settings. They don't compare for people who appreciate and desire a well made setting. I love my LOGR settings for what they are .. cheap decent looking settings to hold nice (but not extremly expensive) stones. I think they are a great alternative to the mid-range settings but nothing compared to high-end jewelry.

 

[suchende]

How can those LOGR settings not be a copyright violation?

 

[Arkteia]

Well, technically, making prongs straight instead of curved already defies copyright violation...

I was thinking that the whole abundance of Harry-Winston-like and Tiffany-like settings says something about the settings themselves becoming trivial. (I mist admit, though, that I did call JbED after I saw Uppy's spinel ring because they did a very interesting job, and I still have some plans for two of our big companies). But finding new Etsy artisans is also fun!

 

[T L]

The underside of my Legacy, just to show the shank is not hollowed out. People can make their own judgements on my piece. The basket is not polished, and of course, the workmanship under the head could be better, but it does the job, and from far away, it's really a lovely piece to my eye. For those that really are into the details however, there are things that would bother them, but for $500, I'm not complaining. Your jeweler can alway fix minor aspects of this piece, as the non polished basket.

 

[Novel]

Edited - answered my own question!

 

[LD]

Michael - none of my Chinese settings have hollowed out shanks, nor has there been any visible porosity. I appreciate porosity can be hidden but then nobody would see that in any event AND designer rings aren't immune from this either!

 

[CharmyPoo]

Michael - none of my Chinese settings have hollowed out shanks, nor has there been any visible porosity. I appreciate porosity can be hidden but then nobody would see that in any event AND designer rings aren't immune from this either!

Ditto. I believe my chinese settings are as good as any of the mass market settings and arguably mid-range designers.

 

[iLander]

I didn't read all the posts, but . . .

I think VL's point is well taken. If we can't see much of a difference, is the difference really worth $100,000.00?

No.

Simple as that.

 

[T L]

I didn't read all the posts, but . . .

I think VL's point is well taken. If we can't see much of a difference, is the difference really worth $100,000.00?

No.

Simple as that.

Well, in the case of the Tiffany Legacy above, I don't even see a difference worth even $7K, even if it is done in platinum. The aquamarine is not a substantial cost either, as I've seen theirs in person, and they're not that high of a quality. Now, that Tiffany Legacy in the photo and the particular ones I have seen in person, are poorly executed, but are supposed to be from a store that sells high end rings. If I went to HW and saw a similar ring, and it was very well made, and around $7K, then I might be able to justify that difference in price. However, how many rings at HW are only $7K?

In the end, you're really paying for the high cost of Tiffany & Co's. operating, and their advertising. There are actually many vendors that custom make very similar looking styles to the Tiffany Legacy, and do a great job at it, better than Tiffany's execution of that ring, and certainly better than LOGR. Even those custom pieces are still less expensive than the original Tiffany & Co. ring.