Has a well known vendor started LYING?

[theredspinel]

I know this is going to create some ripples hence no names.

A well known vendor I feel is very fast moving towards the "dishonest car salesman" type of vendor and it's concerning me.

For example calling pink purple sapphires RUBY. Or a 80% EXTINCT stone..bright and "open". It's not open it's DEAD.

Is anyone else here noticing this or am I going crazy?

 

[Cockatiel]

I know this is going to create some ripples hence no names.

A well known vendor I feel is very fast moving towards the "dishonest car salesman" type of vendor and it's concerning me.

For example calling pink purple sapphires RUBY. Or a 80% EXTINCT stone..bright and "open". It's not open it's DEAD.

Is anyone else here noticing this or am I going crazy?

I don't know about flat out lying, but sometimes notice non disclosure of things like inclusions, fractures etc. Labelling stones eye clean when it clearly cannot pass off as one in HANDSHOTS. Plus there is plenty of ridiculous mis-labelling of colors. Labelling brown/beige/taupe/peach/champagne/apricot/whiskey/tan/soil/dirt/brick/rust/ochre/camel/whatever color spinels and freaking GARNETS as "padparadscha color".

 

[Arcadian]

This is a consumer board. You will have those that will not stand in your corner because they are chummy with a particular vendor.

My view is that I don't care who it is, if they're wrong they're just wrong. It will be up to you to reveal the vendor or not.

My expereince with some vendors; you have those that will sell you a stone, they may not intentionally lie but they might stretch things a bit, or they see things as they see them. They are after all trying to make a sale. Its up to consumers to really do due diligence and make sure that the person is on the up and up. Its the reason why we always put stones up here because different viewpoints can be so helpful.

The difference between a sapphire or a ruby is the person who's selling/buying it. Trust and believe thats a big bone of contention. I've bought one ruby. It was a cab and it was red. Thankfully it was not one of those on the edge type stones. That said, if you are after a ruby it behooves you to get one thats already got a report, or for ones that don't, make sure the vendor will accept a return if you get a lab report that says its not.

To that end, I am careful to buy from someone with a really good return policy and who will understand why I'm returning something.

 

[Frost]

Just to preface; I've no idea who or what but generally speaking: always ask for additional photos in any type of light you wish and videos.

It's really basic, you're paying thousands of dollars online sight unseen for something the value of which depends entirely on (sometimes minor) colour/clarity/cut differences. If someone isn't thorough with disclosure, try to gently steer them into it by running them out of other options with requests for added media. If they don't want to do it, then don't take the risk.

But at the same time, the buyer should be educated enough to be able to interpret these same photos and videos correctly - which is something that's often lacking online. Misplaced/uninformed complaints like something "not lighting up" in dark room, or a photo showing extinction when there's actually 90% light return in a video (which would be considered very "open"), or a stone changing hues depending on the light source and other normal things get interpreted as conspiracies when in fact they are merely the natural properties of the material (just very generalised examples).

 

[missy]

I dont know who you are referring to but there are all sorts of vendors. Honest ones, less honest ones and really unprincipled ones. And they all exist here on PS.

I don't blame you for not wanting to name the vendor as @Arcadian noted some PSers will defend "their" (favorite) vendor(s) with all the devotion of a rabid fan. And you might get beat up in the process. I get you not wanting to deal with that.

As Arcadian and @Frost wrote you must check and double check and do your due diligence. Just because a vendor is on PS is no guarantee they are a principled ethical honest business person. And sometimes the more the hype the further it is from the truth.

Being an educated consumer is your best defense.

 

[Frost]

Being an educated consumer is your best defense.

+ 1. The vendors go through the same troubles like consumers do when they buy within the trade literally from the mines onwards and since there's normally no one to protect them or complain to, how they protect themselves is with knowledge and tons of hands on experience. It's the best defense possible. If you know what you're doing well enough, almost no one can tell you otherwise (I'm saying "almost" just as a disclaimer since we all learn things we didn't know or count on sometimes, so learning 'otherwise' is a part of building that shield of experience).

EDIT: But just to be sure - leave as little space for that as possible. Ask for colour corrected photos, ask for colour corrected videos. And if they don't want to go through the trouble of doing that, take your search elsewhere. Gems aren't groceries, they aren't oxygen and they aren't indispensable. It's understandable one would want to accurately know what they are forking cash over for and if the vendors can't get that, maybe they should be selling something less complicated.

 

[chrono]

To be fair to vendors, a one person operation may not have the time to take additional pics and videos, not to mention colour accuracy can be challenging. Homework and honesty goes both ways. Naturally, I expect more if the stone is expensive.


This is where Pricescope shines. Many are willing to share their time and knowledge for free to everyone and anyone who asks.

 

[kenny]

Post the name of the vendor or don't start such a thread.

 

[Frost]

To be fair to vendors, a one person operation may not have the time to take additional pics and videos, not to mention colour accuracy can be challenging. Homework and honesty goes both ways. Naturally, I expect more if the stone is expensive.

I agree - I think it's largely a matter of personal communication and understanding between people. But at the same time, half of the gem trade are one person shows and from personal experience I'd say that being a one person operation shouldn't be an obstacle when it comes to presenting things clearly and accurately, regardless of how much work that might require. Or to put it this way - within the trade itself, it's very much expected regardless of whether one has a 100 employees or only one's own time and knowledge. And the trade is merciless and very interconnected; it usually weeds laziness and misrepresentation out very quickly.

 

[Arkteia]

It seems people's eye for color is very different, to start with. But I was lucky as all vendors I have met have good return policy. (Except for two cases). As long as you can return a stone, "one man's ruby is another man's sapphire". It also seems that people are becoming more desperate to sell their stones - perhaps there is more competition, with the development of precision cutting, or perhaps the rough is getting more expensive? I might be wrong, of course, but this is how it looks like.

 

[Bron357]

Is my gem a ruby or pink sapphire?
In one iPhone phone it looks quite “red” but In the other, definitely pink. The “ruby / pink sapphire” identification is one I’m grappling with personally.
I have 3 red / pink gems which I will eventually sell but are they rubies or pink sapphires?
My investigation into this dilemma has revealed that originally all pink corundum was called ruby. Rightly or wrongly some Asian vendors still adhere to this practice.
GIA says to be a ruby the colour must be “predominantly” red. And it is noted that “sellers call their gem ruby whereas buyers say pink sapphire due to the price differential”. Even speaking to my gemologist lecturer he repeated the same “depends sometimes whether you’re selling or buying”.
Hmmmm.
With coloured gems, and I now have a few, I would have to say only buy from a vendor to whom you can return the gem if in person it doesn’t met your expectations. Because a photo can be misleading if not outright manipulated.

 

[AGBF]

I am not sure what the problem is with the hype, if one can return the stone. (Although, of course, a Pricescoper is free to post that he feels a vendor engages in a lot of hyperbole if he wishes to name that vendor openly.) If there is a problem with being able to return the stone that was supposedly misrepresented, that is a totally different situation. Please elucidate.

Also: if one buys a colored stone that is really expensive, one should get it certified. I have a spinel that is certified by AGL and I have read kenny's postings on GIA being the best authority for fancy colored diamonds. A colored gemstone is best certified by AGL and a colored diamond by GIA.

AGBF

 

[Cockatiel]

On an unrelated note, sometimes sending back stuff internationally is a huge risk. I've returned gemstones to Sri Lanka, Thailand and India and never lost anything, but sometimes would lose track of the package for over 3 months and then after I've given up all hope, I receive a refund, so I know it got delivered. I of course go with fully trackable options only, but once the package leaves the country even the ones that are meant to be trackable can outright disappear. And I never figured out how to fill out the paperwork, like what amount to declare, and whether to mark it as return merchandise or not, etc, to avoid theft as well as the vendor having to pay big import fees.

 

[minousbijoux]

Yes, its a problem with certain vendors. There is a vendor, prolific in posting their gems, whose photos make the stones look beautifully saturated and ideal. However, the videos show the stone in a much more realistic perspective, as just mediocre stones. I cringe every time for new buyers who fall for the photos and the hype-y language, buy the stones, and then while disappointed, don't feel as if they should return it. Yeah, I know, its on them, and they should just return it, but sometimes people are too intimidated to do so, especially when first starting out. Helping those folks is one of the best services this forum provides - and certainly helped me a lot when I was new to buying gemstones online.

I also have come to trust the eye for color of certain vendors much more than others. There is a wonderfully sweet vendor (probably more than one now that I think about it) whose eye for color is just way different than mine I guess. What they see as vivid or "super bright and extremely saturated" is not at all that to me. I don't think for a minute that they are dishonest, just see things differently than I. I guess that's why when I find vendors who match my expectations/speak in terms I understand and with whom I agree, I buy repeatedly from them.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

Many good points are made on this discussion. I think we are fortunate on this forum to have the " Vendor pictures and owner pictures of PS stones" thread. This thread allows the PS member to not only post pictures but give their overall impression of the vendor stone vs. description, and if they kept the stone or sent it back.

 

[Cockatiel]

Many good points are made on this discussion. I think we are fortunate on this forum to have the " Vendor pictures and owner pictures of PS stones" thread. This thread allows the PS member to not only post pictures but give their overall impression of the vendor stone vs. description, and if they kept the stone or sent it back.

Starting that thread was such a good idea. In trying to gauge what a stone looks like in real life, I find additional pictures more helpful than asking the vendor to describe the stone in words. I know pictures can be misleading, but I have a harder time understanding the vendor's descriptions. For example, I don't know what to think at all when I hear stuff like "no gray"," not brown", "not dark", "nice bright open" because the vendor probably has totally different criteria from mine. And there are some vendors that are simply more generous when grading stone colors if I see they've written "no gray", etc I just ignore that bit and just look at the pictures provided.

 

[soberguy]

Post the name of the vendor or don't start such a thread.

I wasn’t aware we elected a president of colored stones. Should we e-mail you prior to starting threads to be sure of your approval?

 

[theredspinel]

Wow many comments. Don't worry about kenny soberguy, he's the joker of the pack.

So just to clarify a few points, I'm not worried about being misled on a stone from this vendor (others will be however) I am only hugely disappointed that their integrity has fallen beneah their profit margin.

I won't share which vendor (mainly because I won't ruin a business on what I may be wrong on) but moreso because I myself had /have huge respect and like for this vendor.

This was a vendor of the people, which is why I started this thread because it's a little unbelieable now they would forgo their strong ethics and just be after the sale.

I'm not talking about nuances that can be argued, or hyper flowery describing brown poop as chocolate... I'm talking about outright lying and stating brown poop colour garnet is the top colour for its species for example.

This vendor would never have done this in the past.

I guess it's good if people have no idea which vendor I'm talking about - it shows maybe it's me being too sensitive and not the vendor on a slippery path after all. Either way, I'll be keeping my eye on this and I'm sure if people here start noticing too we'll be having more of these threads.

 

[Nosean]

Yes, its a problem with certain vendors. There is a vendor, prolific in posting their gems, whose photos make the stones look beautifully saturated and ideal. However, the videos show the stone in a much more realistic perspective, as just mediocre stones. I cringe every time for new buyers who fall for the photos and the hype-y language, buy the stones, and then while disappointed, don't feel as if they should return it. Yeah, I know, its on them, and they should just return it, but sometimes people are too intimidated to do so, especially when first starting out. Helping those folks is one of the best services this forum provides - and certainly helped me a lot when I was new to buying gemstones online.

I also have come to trust the eye for color of certain vendors much more than others. There is a wonderfully sweet vendor (probably more than one now that I think about it) whose eye for color is just way different than mine I guess. What they see as vivid or "super bright and extremely saturated" is not at all that to me. I don't think for a minute that they are dishonest, just see things differently than I. I guess that's why when I find vendors who match my expectations/speak in terms I understand and with whom I agree, I buy repeatedly from them.

Yes, so true - but sometimes they don't want help and still follow the guru.

 

[Nosean]

I wasn’t aware we elected a president of colored stones. Should we e-mail you prior to starting threads to be sure of your approval?

A monarchy! And today ( 08th of march ) of course a queen!

 

[AGBF]

I just wanted to post to say that I have been reading this thread attentively. Although I posted a point of view, I can also listen. I have not been active on this forum in a long time. By reading the thoughtful comments posted in this thread, I understand that there appears to be a need for consumer vigilance when looking at the stones shown even by the most popular vendors. And I understand that looking at threads where stones that have been bought and then received may help consumers to see which vendors' pictures and videos appear to bear the closest resemblance to each other.

I thank LisaRN and minousbijoux especially for their well written postings.

Deb/AGBF

 

[minousbijoux]

Deb:

 

[doberman]

Well I do wish I knew what vendor this is. A couple of months ago a poster detailed the problems he had with Jewels by Grace and no one gave him a hard time. And Leon Mege certainly receives his share of scathing reviews. I've patronized both and had no issues, but I'm still interested in the experience of others.

Buying gems is so much more difficult than buying diamonds. Color is subjective and dependent on lighting and I get that, but windowing drives me crazy and you can't always tell in the photos. A good return policy is essential.

 

[daneshpastry]

Well I do wish I knew what vendor this is. A couple of months ago a poster detailed the problems he had with Jewels by Grace and no one gave him a hard time. And Leon Mege certainly receives his share of scathing reviews. I've patronized both and had no issues, but I'm still interested in the experience of others.

Buying gems is so much more difficult than buying diamonds. Color is subjective and dependent on lighting and I get that, but windowing drives me crazy and you can't always tell in the photos. A good return policy is essential.

I'd really like to know too - being new to the forum, I'm not well versed on all the vendors yet. I totally understand why they remain unnamed though - no one wants that drama.

 

[digdeep]

It's up to TRS whether she reveals the vendor she is concerned about.......however, it helps to know as other folks may share insights that clarify what is going on or share a totally different experience. If it is a vendor that can respond here it is helpful to know what their version is. We all have our vendor fav's for stones and over time those choices may change.........that's a natural progression.

 

[Niel]

Threads like this leave a bad taste in my mouth.
“I know a vendor is being dishonest. I’m not going to say who.”

Who’s that helping? Do you want people to continue to buy from them?

Idk, i don’t mean this as a personal attack on OP- I’m just saying- I don’t get the point of posts like this. I don’t know why you wouldn’t want to keep others from buying from an unscrupulous vendor.

 

[Rfisher]

If it's malicious intent deceptive - yes I'd want to see them named.
If it's ignorance deceptive - that's a different story.

 

[leukolenos]

I understand not wanting to damage anyone’s business, but as a consumer education forum I feel it would be more helpful to name the vendor and/or give an example of what you’re talking about.

It’s fine for many of the more experienced buyers who can browse and easily identify stones that aren’t as nice as their description might lead you to believe- but there are plenty of new buyers who don’t know the difference. For every one person who posts asking for help there are countless who only read for information- being frank about it is more helpful to everyone.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Hi OP,

Here's a thought: perhaps in a few week's or a month's time, you could post one of this vendor's items for sale in a separate thread (not a stone that you've already referenced) and say that you think it is a misrepresentation. That way you call them out for a bad business practice without calling them a full scale liar. This would be helpful to everyone on this forum, and it would expose you to a lot less criticism, and maybe the vendor would even catch wind of it and try to improve their depictions.

I can certainly relate to your frustration with bad business practices. I know I've lost money in the past to items I thought were pretty greatly misrepresented. It sucks.

 

[theredspinel]

Yeah... I won't be naming the vendor because it's pretty clear from my opening post, I'm asking whether I am going mad and imagining this previously "good" vendor outright lying now a days... or if it's really happening and others have noticed it too.

Seeing as it's a vendor at least 50% of pricescope probably visit everyday.. I was sure at least someone (heck I thought everyone would) have been saying things like "OH I know who you mean....". It hasn't happened and I'm not going to slate or accuse someone when all I have is my own feelings.

The regulars here know I'm not much about making friends or wanting to stay out of hot water... I'm in hot water most days of my life and it's a good thing I don't crave social validation. I just won't name the vendor as I don't know if they are beginning to lie or I'm being sensitive to "sales pitch".