Hearts and Arrows? How do you know if you have it?

[lagirlie]

I'm pretty sure my ring does not have it, but how can I tell? It looks like it has arrows, but no hearts on the back? Or can you not see hearts without a loupe? Or is "hearts and arrow" a branded thing? Is it just the same as a super ideal cut?

Lol, sorry if this is a stupid question. I've googled it, but still kinda confused.

 

[ecf8503]

You can only see the hearts when the stone is loose looking at it from the back. There's no way to see hearts if the stone is mounted.

 

[sledge]

Below is a quote from the BGD site concerning this topic. Essentially, due to the way diamonds are cut, every stone exhibits some form of a heart & arrow. However, to be truly classified as a H&A stone, there is additional symmetry and precision cutting that is required.

FAQ #5 - https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-hearts-and-arrows/#faqs

Many people confuse Hearts & Arrows diamonds with standard round brilliant cut diamonds because they share the same basic facet structure. However, this is like saying that a Ford Taurus and a Lamborghini are both automobiles. While that statement is true, Ford and Lamborghini are both cars, there are dramatic differences between a Taurus and a Huracán in terms of performance. The modern round brilliant cut diamond consists of 58 facets including the bottom point known as the culet. Thus, it is possible for any round brilliant cut diamond to exhibit hearts and arrows to some extent. However, it requires an incredible amount of precision to produce a crisp and complete pattern of hearts and arrows like the one pictured to the left. As you can see, each heart is formed from two halves that are created by light reflecting off the pavilion main facet on one side of the diamond, across the diamond where it splits into two halves which reflect off of the lower girdle facets on the opposite side. The slightest variation in facet size, shape, or alignment, skews everything and the hearts will not be consistent in size and shape.

 

[ringo865]

You can only see the hearts when the stone is loose looking at it from the back. There's no way to see hearts if the stone is mounted.

And only with a special hearts and arrows viewer.

 

[HappyNewLife]

I can see arrows very easily, but my diamond is pretty big. You should be able to see arrows with a loupe for sure.

 

[shoechick]

Definitely you can see arrows with a loupe.

I can also see the arrows in my diamond when I put a toilet paper roll over the ring. I know that sounds cray cray! But it blocks the surrounding light and makes the arrows pop out silver on the diamond. I’m probably not using the right technical jargon, lol!

And as a comparison I did the toilet paper roll trick with my old diamond that I had reset to a pendant. And, no arrow popped out (as expected, since I already knew it wasn’t a H&A).

 

[lagirlie]

Below is a quote from the BGD site concerning this topic. Essentially, due to the way diamonds are cut, every stone exhibits some form of a heart & arrow. However, to be truly classified as a H&A stone, there is additional symmetry and precision cutting that is required.

FAQ #5 - https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-hearts-and-arrows/#faqs

Very interesting! Learning more on here everyday!

 

[lagirlie]

this is a link to my stone. do you guys see arrows? or no? LOL i really can't tell.

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/3.40-ct-J-SI1-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D40847050

 

[sledge]

Yes, you can see them in darker grey.

 

[lagirlie]

Yes, you can see them in darker grey.

Thanks for checking sledge! You are always so helpful

 

[sledge]

You're welcome. You do see them, right?

 

[lagirlie]

You're welcome. You do see them, right?

I don’t LOL. I was just trying to act like I did (am I blind??? )

 

[sledge]

I don’t LOL. I was just trying to act like I did (am I blind??? )

This is rough as I'm on my mobile but see below and then compare to the pic without the markups.

 

[sledge]

Okay, on my laptop. So below is an image taken through a H&A viewer. The arrows are much easier to see because the background of the diamond is turned red and the arrows are white. If you look back at the images of your stone (plain & marked up), you should see what I am talking about.



FYI, you see the arrows from the top of the diamond, or the crown. I have to work to see them in my girl's 0.867ct stone, but with you have a 3.40ct I'd think those babies are about to reach out and slap you!

Now the hearts are a different story. You can't see them unless the stone is unmounted and you place in a H&A viewer. For hearts, you look at the bottom of the stone, or the pavilion. Below is an image of how hearts should look.



Alas, here is a markup I did for someone else but it simplifies the crown and pavilion angles of the diamond from a side profile view like you typically see in a GIA/AGS report.

 

[lagirlie]

Okay, on my laptop. So below is an image taken through a H&A viewer. The arrows are much easier to see because the background of the diamond is turned red and the arrows are white. If you look back at the images of your stone (plain & marked up), you should see what I am talking about.



FYI, you see the arrows from the top of the diamond, or the crown. I have to work to see them in my girl's 0.867ct stone, but with you have a 3.40ct I'd think those babies are about to reach out and slap you!

Now the hearts are a different story. You can't see them unless the stone is unmounted and you place in a H&A viewer. For hearts, you look at the bottom of the stone, or the pavilion. Below is an image of how hearts should look.



Alas, here is a markup I did for someone else but it simplifies the crown and pavilion angles of the diamond from a side profile view like you typically see in a GIA/AGS report.

Oh yes! Much more clear now! I actually thought the arrows were pointing in.. I think I’ve been looking at all these pics inside out!

Thanks so much for doing all that! I can’t wait to school my next friend that is shopping for a diamond hehehe

 

[sledge]

Oh yes! Much more clear now! I actually thought the arrows were pointing in.. I think I’ve been looking at all these pics inside out!

Thanks so much for doing all that! I can’t wait to school my next friend that is shopping for a diamond hehehe

Glad it helped. When your friend is ready, make sure he/she spends some time on here and DON'T buy until we've had a chance to approve everything, lol.

 

[rockysalamander]

Almost every round modern diamond being cut today is using the basic cutting pattern to generate heart and arrow shapes. There are other round patterns, but this is the most popular right now in diamonds. 58-facets (https://www.gia.edu/gia-news-research-round-brilliant-cut-diamond-pay). In terms of other patterns, you can have a look at the Solasfera as an example of one round that is not the same pattern.

A diamond that is labeled as being capital Heart & Arrows stone means the stone is cut with sufficient accuracy, precision, and symmetry that you get perfect shapes called hearts and arrows. They are all of the same shape and size. They are symmetrical. No clefts in the hearts, etc. You should see utter perfection and symmetry in those features. The hearts view is often easier to interpret. Most of these will be stones that are precision cut and branded (Hearth on Fire, A Cut Above, Crafted by Infinity, Victor Canera, Brian Gavin, etc.). Why? They are cut with perfection in design and thus lose more material to achieve that. They are not cheating the weight to make it look "good enough". They are making every facet perfect and symmetrical. They leave a lot of material on the floor to achieve this....so they are generally more expensive.

• "8 equal uniformed symmetrical hearts.
• 8 distinct symmetrical Hearts that separate from the Arrowheads above. If above is correct check the following.
• Check if the hearts are split, measure a length of heart then the length of the split.
• Calculate the % of the length split, if it is greater than 8% and there are more than 2 of them IT FAILS".

(from https://www.pricescope.com/journal/hearts_and_arrows_diamonds_and_basics_diamond_cutting)

Astor by BN is not a precision line. They essentially look at the wholesalers' list and label certain ones Astor that are within "their" standards. You can find nice diamond, but I don't find being labeled Astor and using the GEMEX grading to be compelling.

So, you have both heart and arrows. But, you likely don't have Hearts & Arrows diamond. Does not mean it can't be beautiful...

 

[sledge]

Thank you for clarifying @rockysalamander. Lots of good info there.

To be clear I wasn't suggesting it was a true H&A stone in the sense of perfect symmetry but rather that modern day cutting results in arrows even if they aren't perfect for the true definition of a H&A stone.

 

[lagirlie]

Thank you @rockysalamander.. That really helps explain the difference.

So interesting! I will be sad when I'm done researching diamonds (so addicted to reading these posts right now)!

 

[rockysalamander]

Thank you @rockysalamander.. That really helps explain the difference.

So interesting! I will be sad when I'm done researching diamonds (so addicted to reading these posts right now)!

You don't have to leave once you get your diamond! How do you think we all started? There is always stuff to learn and teach about gemstones.