Heating of Corundum - an investment?

[JewelryLover]

Lets just say everything works out exactly as planned. Looking over the numbers, this may be difficult to make any money.

Assume you were able to buy a sapphire for the price you stated of $100 per ct. So take a 2 ct stone. You pay:

$200 for the stone
$10 to ship from Asia?
$5 to ship to AGL for testing to confirm it's not heated
$55 for AGL Brief
$20 for AGL to ship back to you (They always us Registered mail)

You now have invested $290 in the stone.

You ship to your burner

$5 shipping
$10 burn fee
$10 ship back to you.

You now have $315 in the stone.

Back to AGL

$5 shipping
$55 AGL report
$20 Shipping back to you

You now have $395 in the stone.

You have to now sell it, and make a profit. You need a minimum of $500 just to cover your costs and time running back and forth to the post office. So the question is, can you now sell this heated sapphire for $500 or more.

You're very close to it, but I will break it down like this:

$500 for the stone (including some type of Report, lets say AIGS, 5 carat gemstone)
$35 to ship from Asia (FedEx)

I now have invested $535 in the stone.

Heating is FREE as I know the heater, no costs what so ever

AGL

$100 shipping (FedEx)
$55 AGL Gembrief // or $450 AGL Prestige
$100 Shipping back to me (FedEx)

I have now invested either $790 or $1185 (depends upon AGL report)

I will now have to sell it for over $1185 just to be even with the price. If it get extremely good, lets say "Cornflower" color with VVS clarity, I can charge thousands and earn a lot. If it turn out bad, that's another history, then it's all my loss. So there is of course a huge risk doing this.

 

[LD]

Your friend, the one who will be doing the heating. Does he/she do this for a living? I suspect not which goes back to the fact that this is a specialised art.

Don't forget you'll lose all of this money if the stone is damaged in this process.

 

[JewelryLover]

Your friend, the one who will be doing the heating. Does he/she do this for a living? I suspect not which goes back to the fact that this is a specialised art.

Don't forget you'll lose all of this money if the stone is damaged in this process.

Yes, I'm fully aware of the possible loss of doing this.

He is skilled of heating gemstones but are unfamiliar with heating of Corundum. He will follow the steps as it were any type of gemstone with the degress of 1000-1650*C of course. He has been in the jewelry business for some years now. But as I told him, if it doesn't work out it's all my own fault and he shouldn't blame himself. And I wont get mad either.

 

[AN0NYM0US]

I'm wondering why you've blanked out the photos of the gemstones and the sizes? That's a bit strange.

Why not post the reports as is? I don't understand

 

[JewelryLover]

I'm wondering why you've blanked out the photos of the gemstones and the sizes? That's a bit strange.

Why not post the reports as is? I don't understand

Will show all information on them when the gemstones are back.

 

[LD]

I'm wondering why you've blanked out the photos of the gemstones and the sizes? That's a bit strange.

Why not post the reports as is? I don't understand

Being a cynic I would say it's because it's easier to hide information later. Sorry JL but your reticence doesn't make sense.

 

[JewelryLover]

I dont know how that would be easier in any way as the reports will be shown here without any hidden information when they are back. I just want to let the info be hidden until I got pictures of the heated gemstones ready at the same time. Please respect that.

 

[minousbijoux]

I can't wait for you to sell them for "thousands of dollars" each, because I'm sure buyers will be lining up to buy from you.

 

[JewelryLover]

I can't wait for you to sell them for "thousands of dollars" each, because I'm sure buyers will be lining up to buy from you.

I do really enjoy your rudeness <3

 

[minousbijoux]

The PS community is well aware of that company and the lab used. This certainly calls into question why they use the lab and only that lab, does it not? At least one PSer had a SLP verified sapphire sent to a different lab (can't recall if it is AGL or AIGS) but it came back as heated and diffused. This is a huge red flag to me. This is why detecting treatment in sapphires should only be verified by GIA, AGL and if pressed, AIGS and no other lab.

Oooh very interesting. Not that I would have trusted that lab or even bought an expensive stone on Ebay ( never even heard of SLP), but does anyone have a link to that post. Who did they buy it from?

Hi IK: That was me. While the seller assured me it had not been be treated, I doubted it, so worked out a deal upon sale. When GIA came with diffusion, the seller was honorable and allowed the return of the stone, covering all costs including the lab report. I'll see if I can dig up the thread, but the dealer was Gem-Earth. I would never buy corundum from them, since SLP is questionable and the owner, for the most part, seems to trust her suppliers. I think if you look through my threads for one around Xmas in 2010, that might be the timeframe.

 

[minousbijoux]

I can't wait for you to sell them for "thousands of dollars" each, because I'm sure buyers will be lining up to buy from you.

I do really enjoy your rudeness <3

You're absolutely right and I should not be so snarky. Its just that you are such an easy target! My apologies, I will try not to be rude again to you.

 

[AN0NYM0US]

I dont know how that would be easier in any way as the reports will be shown here without any hidden information when they are back. I just want to let the info be hidden until I got pictures of the heated gemstones ready at the same time. Please respect that.

I just don't understand your motives with hiding info. Can you at least explain why you are censoring the reports?

 

[JewelryLover]

I dont know how that would be easier in any way as the reports will be shown here without any hidden information when they are back. I just want to let the info be hidden until I got pictures of the heated gemstones ready at the same time. Please respect that.

I just don't understand your motives with hiding info. Can you at least explain why you are censoring the reports?

Not any particilar reason actually, I just like some privacy.

 

[AN0NYM0US]

I dont know how that would be easier in any way as the reports will be shown here without any hidden information when they are back. I just want to let the info be hidden until I got pictures of the heated gemstones ready at the same time. Please respect that.

I just don't understand your motives with hiding info. Can you at least explain why you are censoring the reports?

Not any particilar reason actually, I just like some privacy.

There is no personal info on the reports, plus you will reveal them in 2 weeks...so you want privacy this week, but not next week?

I find this whole thing peculiar.

 

[JewelryLover]

I dont know how that would be easier in any way as the reports will be shown here without any hidden information when they are back. I just want to let the info be hidden until I got pictures of the heated gemstones ready at the same time. Please respect that.

I just don't understand your motives with hiding info. Can you at least explain why you are censoring the reports?

Not any particilar reason actually, I just like some privacy.

There is no personal info on the reports, plus you will reveal them in 2 weeks...so you want privacy this week, but not next week?

I find this whole thing peculiar.

No particular reason .. and yes, the information will be availaible within couple of weeks. I just dont feel to share it yet. I will use the same pictures, so that people can see it's the same reports and not another one.

 

[LD]

JL you've shared all your thoughts, told us all that you know best and that we'll all be proved wrong by you (said in this thread) and we've seen tons of posts from you each day virtually taking over the board and yet you now want privacy? What privacy? There's NOTHING on the reports that would lead to infringement of your privacy.

Sorry I agree with Anonymous that it doesn't stack up / make sense. It smacks more of you want details to remain hidden so you can decide what to share at a later date.

Why not post the photos you've already taken - you've said you have done that - that won't impinge on your privacy in any way?

 

[LD]

JL you've shared all your thoughts, told us all that you know best and that we'll all be proved wrong by you (said in this thread) and we've seen tons of posts from you each day virtually taking over the board and yet you now want privacy? What privacy? There's NOTHING on the reports that would lead to infringement of your privacy.

Sorry I agree with Anonymous that it doesn't stack up / make sense. It smacks more of you want details to remain hidden so you can decide what to share at a later date.

Why not post the photos you've already taken - you've said you have done that - that won't impinge on your privacy in any way?

 

[JewelryLover]

JL you've shared all your thoughts, told us all that you know best and that we'll all be proved wrong by you (said in this thread) and we've seen tons of posts from you each day virtually taking over the board and yet you now want privacy? What privacy? There's NOTHING on the reports that would lead to infringement of your privacy.

Sorry I agree with Anonymous that it doesn't stack up / make sense. It smacks more of you want details to remain hidden so you can decide what to share at a later date.

Why not post the photos you've already taken - you've said you have done that - that won't impinge on your privacy in any way?

I have taken couple of them, and some are from the vendors. The vendor pictures are what they look like in real, therefore I haven't taken new pictures of every single one by myself. I got more pictures of each of them, but I will post 1 picture of each one right now. And will devide it into 3 posts as it's only possible to upload 4 pictures in one comment.

 

[JewelryLover]

Second

 

[JewelryLover]

Third

 

[PrecisionGem]

A 5 ct sapphire that is selling for $100 at wholesale would be considered 'Low grade commercial". It will never heat into stone selling for $1000 per ct. That first image you posted of the greenish blue stone that heated to a dark blue. That stone will cut black and be of little value.

Heating sapphire is not like heating zircon, aqua or tanzanite. There are different "recipes" for different locations. Even among Montana Sapphires, stones that are found in different locations in Montana are heated differently. It is really an art, and the recipes are not commonly shared.

Commonly sapphire is heated before cutting. Stones can often fracture during heating, so it's good to get this out of the way before cutting. Since sapphire is dichroic, it's better to see the final color before cutting so that the stone can be orientated to show it's best color.

I don't like to judge a stone from it's picture, but most of those don't look like VVS clarity. You may find those inclusions growing too after heating.

 

[JewelryLover]

A 5 ct sapphire that is selling for $100 at wholesale would be considered 'Low grade commercial". It will never heat into stone selling for $1000 per ct. That first image you posted of the greenish blue stone that heated to a dark blue. That stone will cut black and be of little value.

Heating sapphire is not like heating zircon, aqua or tanzanite. There are different "recipes" for different locations. Even among Montana Sapphires, stones that are found in different locations in Montana are heated differently. It is really an art, and the recipes are not commonly shared.

Commonly sapphire is heated before cutting. Stones can often fracture during heating, so it's good to get this out of the way before cutting. Since sapphire is dichroic, it's better to see the final color before cutting so that the stone can be orientated to show it's best color.

I don't like to judge a stone from it's picture, but most of those don't look like VVS clarity. You may find those inclusions growing too after heating.

4 of them are VVS. The rest are divided in the SI-I zone.

 

[Upgradable]

We already know you don't respect my comments. But since they're free, I'll feel free to continue making them.

You have posted two ruby memos and two ruby pictures, both from respected labs. They both have detected no evidence of heating. I really like the first one with the checkerboard crown. With an reputable memo giving unheated status, there's no way in the world I would send that to be heated. As is, it could be worth a couple thousand dollars. After heating, only half that. But the other is a piece of garbage whose only hope is for heating and complete glass filling, and then you could reasonably expect to get about $50 for it.

And I do like the look of the yellow sapphire, which lacks a posted memo (totally understandable). However, it really looks like the picture has been quite color corrected or the stone has already been heated with beryllium.

However, I am not a trained gemologist, nor a savant like you.

 

[JewelryLover]

We already know you don't respect my comments. But since they're free, I'll feel free to continue making them.

You have posted two ruby memos and two ruby pictures, both from respected labs. They both have detected no evidence of heating. I really like the first one with the checkerboard crown , but the other is a piece of garbage whose only hope is for heating and complete glass filling, and then you could reasonably expect to get about $50 for it. With an reputable memo giving unheated status, there's no way in the world I would send that to be heated. As is, it could be worth a couple thousand dollars. After heating, only half that.

And I do like the look of the yellow sapphire, which lacks a posted memo (totally understandable). However, it really looks like the picture has been quite color corrected or the stone has already been heated with beryllium.

However, I am not a trained gemologist, nor a savant like you.

The checkerboard are quite nice already, but it do look a little hazy (not included). That's why I want to heat it. It's 3.92 carats though, and the measurements are ca. 10.0 x 10.0 x 6.00 mm. And has a very nice Orangish Red color.

The yellow sapphire blongs to the SLP report.

 

[Upgradable]

We already know you don't respect my comments. But since they're free, I'll feel free to continue making them.

You have posted two ruby memos and two ruby pictures, both from respected labs. They both have detected no evidence of heating. I really like the first one with the checkerboard crown , but the other is a piece of garbage whose only hope is for heating and complete glass filling, and then you could reasonably expect to get about $50 for it. With an reputable memo giving unheated status, there's no way in the world I would send that to be heated. As is, it could be worth a couple thousand dollars. After heating, only half that.

And I do like the look of the yellow sapphire, which lacks a posted memo (totally understandable). However, it really looks like the picture has been quite color corrected or the stone has already been heated with beryllium.

However, I am not a trained gemologist, nor a savant like you.

The checkerboard are quite nice already, but it do look a little hazy (not included). That's why I want to heat it. It's 3.92 carats though, and the measurements are ca. 10.0 x 10.0 x 6.00 mm. And has a very nice Orangish Red color.

The yellow sapphire blongs to the SLP report.

You have a 3.92 carat unheated ruby with AIGS/AGL report and you want to send it for heating to maybe clear up haziness??
(eta: the labs identify one as pinkish red and the other red)

 

[JewelryLover]

We already know you don't respect my comments. But since they're free, I'll feel free to continue making them.

You have posted two ruby memos and two ruby pictures, both from respected labs. They both have detected no evidence of heating. I really like the first one with the checkerboard crown , but the other is a piece of garbage whose only hope is for heating and complete glass filling, and then you could reasonably expect to get about $50 for it. With an reputable memo giving unheated status, there's no way in the world I would send that to be heated. As is, it could be worth a couple thousand dollars. After heating, only half that.

And I do like the look of the yellow sapphire, which lacks a posted memo (totally understandable). However, it really looks like the picture has been quite color corrected or the stone has already been heated with beryllium.

However, I am not a trained gemologist, nor a savant like you.

The checkerboard are quite nice already, but it do look a little hazy (not included). That's why I want to heat it. It's 3.92 carats though, and the measurements are ca. 10.0 x 10.0 x 6.00 mm. And has a very nice Orangish Red color.

The yellow sapphire blongs to the SLP report.

You have a 3.92 carat unheated ruby with AIGS/AGL report and you want to send it for heating to maybe clear up haziness??

Yupp, that's me in a nutshell! Or .. maybe it's my stupidity .. who knows ..

I will also heat 2 more gemstones (these has no reports), I will deliver them tomorrow. So I get all back within ca. 14 days. There will be a total of 11 stones, not 9.

3.92 carat, 3.02 carat, 1.99 carat, 2.07 carat, another 2.07 carat, 3.20 carat, 3.30 carat, 4.50 carat, another 4.50 carat. I did also send a 6.48 carat heart for heating (no report), as well as a 4.35 carat (no report). Total of 39.40 carats.

 

[LD]

Photo 1 - no comment as can't see the stone well enough.

Photo 2 - has so many inclusions that I'd worry if this will withstand heating.

Photo 3 - do you see the blue flash at 10 o'clock? What do you think that is? Also the inclusions are huge. Even if this heats to a more desirable colour, those inclusions are not likely to disappear.

Photo 4 - One of Tan's sapphires. If that could be heated to become better he would have arranged for it to be done. He's no fool.

Photo 5 - If that stays together in the heating process you'll have done well. It looks like some of those inclusions are actually cracks.

Photo 6 - Pretty colour so why heat this? Also a huge feather. Same comment as above.

Photo 7 - Well it can't look any worse (not my colour at all) so worth chucking in the furness.

Photo 8 - So dark it's impossible to see whether there are any worrying signs.

Photo 9 - Please don't tell me you have a lab report saying this is untreated? I'd bet good money that this has been treated to hell and back - OR - it's synthetic.

All of the gemstones you've posted are low quality and will have been bought off Ebay for low prices. You can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

Edit: Large carat weights of crap gemstones doesn't equate to higher value. It just means you have a larger crapier stone. If you have a 5ct crap stone and a 1ct excellent stone, the 5ct won't reach anywhere near the value of the 1ct.

 

[JewelryLover]

Photo 1 - no comment as can't see the stone well enough.

Photo 2 - has so many inclusions that I'd worry if this will withstand heating.

Photo 3 - do you see the blue flash at 10 o'clock? What do you think that is? Also the inclusions are huge. Even if this heats to a more desirable colour, those inclusions are not likely to disappear.

Photo 4 - One of Tan's sapphires. If that could be heated to become better he would have arranged for it to be done. He's no fool.

Photo 5 - If that stays together in the heating process you'll have done well. It looks like some of those inclusions are actually cracks.

Photo 6 - Pretty colour so why heat this? Also a huge feather. Same comment as above.

Photo 7 - Well it can't look any worse (not my colour at all) so worth chucking in the furness.

Photo 8 - So dark it's impossible to see whether there are any worrying signs.

Photo 9 - Please don't tell me you have a lab report saying this is untreated? I'd bet good money that this has been treated to hell and back - OR - it's synthetic.

All of the gemstones you've posted are low quality and will have been bought off Ebay for low prices. You can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

Correct, we will see.
Photo 8: it's incredibly BLUE under strong light, without a stron light it looks black. The reason is probably because of the deep cut and that there's a HUGE inclusion near the table.

Photo number 9: SLP Report .. so it might have been treated.

 

[Michael_E]

The checkerboard are quite nice already, but it do look a little hazy (not included). That's why I want to heat it.

This thread has been enormously entertaining and this comment really has me rolling on the floor. How on earth can a stone have any fogginess and NOT be included? Have you looked at this under a microscope? The stones that I have seen like this have always been included with either micro-fractures or silk. In either case there is a reason that this stone has not been heated previously, (as in it will either turn into sand or be so dark as to be valueless).

In looking at your pictures it is pretty apparent that there is nothing to be gained in heating any of the stones shown and that several of them will probably end up in pieces. Heating any stone should only be done with a clear reason for doing it and an understanding of the processes which the stone will undergo to get to your desired end result. I don't see any clear idea about what you expect will occur with any of these stones, or why, and so I'm afraid that you're experiment will yield nothing to warrant the expense of doing it. Why even mess around with cut stones anyway? These things have passed through a multitude of hands already and most of them would have had these treated if it was worth the effort to do so. Sorry, but you've got to start with a quality sow's ear to turn it into a silk purse.

 

[minousbijoux]

First of all, in defense of the OP, some of us are experiential learners - it doesn't matter how many times people explain things, they have to see it, or do it, for themselves to understand.

As to #9, OP, I would say don't waste your time heating that one, unless you want to see what will happen to a diffused stone when its heated again. From the appearance of the stone and my personal experience with the SLP lab, that stone has been treated.

It will be an interesting experiment. You might be interested in gemologyonline as well.