Help! Big fight with bf concerning LIWitis

[MisakiChan]

Hello, and sorry to bother you with my silly problems. I just feel like I'm going to explode and I need to vent somewhere.

So, I apologize in advance for any grammar or spelling mistakes I'm going to make. I didn't sleep well because I cried a lot and now my head hurts like crazy. The thing is I talked to my bf last night about our "future". He doesn't want to get married, not soon anyway and he almost dumped me, telling me to find someone who wants to marry me. He says we're too young (20 years old), but I told him that being a doctor means being financially dependent on your parents a long time from now. He wouldn't listen. And I just can't be with him 5 years from now, not married. I just feel like I'm stuck. He also says he doesn't want to risk us not getting along when living together and that we should live together before marriage. I strongly disagree. I told him my beliefs are absolute regarding this matter.
Today, I'm supposed to go over to his house and work on an Informatics project for school. I absolutely have no idea how I'm going to manage this. I mean, his mother will be there and I feel completely drained.
We have been together for 1 year and 3 months and I told him my "timeframe" for getting engaged would be something like 2 years. Now I'm told I'll have to wait 5 or more. I just can't do it.

Anyway, if you read up to this point, I thank you and promise to be strong.

 

[Rhea]

I'm sorry that you're struggling with a difference of timelines for marriage.

I must agree with him, 20 is young. Plus you're both in school and reliant on your parents for support. That's not an ideal start to any long-term, adult relationship. It's so cliche, but you will change a lot in your 20s. I remember one of my friends getting married in her very early 20s and it about sent me over the edge. I wanted to get married!

If this is the right guy - with common goals in life, ideas about marriage and family, and how to manage households, extended family, work priorities and religion - then he'll come around. Bringing up marriage years before he wants it, and before you've finished school and can support yourselves, may end up in a lot of heartache for you both. And as a now 30 year old who got married at 24 years old, damn is marriage shockingly hard! It's not so much the 1st year, it's the rest of your life thing.

 

[gem_anemone]

I don't understand why it would be a good idea for people who are financially dependent on their parents to be married. There are perks to being single such as staying on your parents' health insurance while you are in school if you are single (edit - this is true in the US, not sure if it is where you are from). I think you lose certain benefits once you are married.

Your boyfriend is not ready and you are only 20. Why do you feel the need to pressure him? You have the rest of your lives to be married. Why the rush? Why put yourselves in a more difficult situation when you haven't even been out on your own? I would like to know your thoughts on why you think getting married sooner is the best decision for you financial and otherwise.

 

[wakingdreams53]

MisakiChan, don't forget what you wrote yourself:

Yes, I know we're young and I agree we should wait. However, in our country med school lasts for 6 years and right now we're in second year. It would mean 5 more years until we finish college and then another 5 years until we finish residency.
I've never been a true believer in marriage and happy endings and I've never waited a boy to come up and "save me". I wouldn't care if he never married me.
Thanks for the support!

I actually think your bf is right. If you want to get married, you need to find someone who also wants to get married. Clearly your BF doesn't and won't even entertain the thought for a while. You know yourself better than we do. If you want someone to share your life with, even in your 11 years of medical school training, then find him. Pressuring your bf will only cause more heartache for you.

 

[ame]

I tend to think that 20 is too young for this discussion entirely, and I also think that if he tells you he doesn't want to get married, now or ever, that you either need to be ok with that if you want to be with him, or you need to move on and find someone else who wants to marry you. He's made it clear, and you ARE wasting time with someone you cannot change.

I think you should either come to grips with the fact that this person is not for you unless you can get over your desire to be married since it sounds like he's clearly stated it will never happen, or cut your losses, focus on your education and career, even if that means staying with your parents til you're older and established. You have 11 years of school/training to get through. That will be hard on you as it is, but harder still on a relationship that doesn't sound very stable as it is now.

 

[Ravinmad]

I was married young, divorced just this past year almost 20 years later. You will likely NEVER get thru or over the young marrage thing and have long term and lasting money issues, be unhappy once the "glow" of being married is over and things will likely end in a less then stellar manner.

The mid 20's is the youngest, to know yourself, life, and realize what exactly is going on in the world. The health care and other benefits of staying on your parents dime are golden bits of information folks here have shared with you that so many people overlook.

This is sound advice, everyone I've read so far. I wish I would have taken similar advice back in 1990.

 

[MisakiChan]

Ok, so first of all thanks everyone for your advice. You're all right, we are way too young.
Today however, something happened. My bf told me that he was just kidding last night, because he wants to be sure I want to spend the rest of my life with him no matter what and in the end, confessed that he is going to propose pretty soon. Soon as in this year!
Naturally, I'm in shock! Now all I have to do is hold on and be patient!

 

[decodelighted]

You're not stuck. You have a choice. You can be with him .... or go after someone who wants to be married sooner. You can stay in med school or quit and find something else productive to do w/your life.

You can only control YOU. And, to be honest, HE sounds like the sensible one right now.

 

[decodelighted]

Ok, so first of all thanks everyone for your advice. You're all right, we are way too young.
Today however, something happened. My bf told me that he was just kidding last night, because he wants to be sure I want to spend the rest of my life with him no matter what and in the end, confessed that he is going to propose pretty soon. Soon as in this year!
Naturally, I'm in shock! Now all I have to do is hold on and be patient!

One more thing for your to do list!

* Spend rest of life with guy who toys w/your emotions to "test you"!

YAY!!!!!!!!!

 

[audball]

Ok, so first of all thanks everyone for your advice. You're all right, we are way too young.
Today however, something happened. My bf told me that he was just kidding last night, because he wants to be sure I want to spend the rest of my life with him no matter what and in the end, confessed that he is going to propose pretty soon. Soon as in this year!
Naturally, I'm in shock! Now all I have to do is hold on and be patient!

One more thing for your to do list!

* Spend rest of life with guy who toys w/your emotions to "test you"!

YAY!!!!!!!!!

My thoughts exactly...

 

[pregcurious]

I got married in my early twenties, and am still happily married 10+ years later. I was not looking to get married, but I felt I had found the right person, and my husband felt the same. My husband wanted to get married to me, and still wants to be with me. I have never had to twist his arm to be with me, and that is half of why this marriage has worked.

We were not financially dependent on our parents after marriage, and were just poor for several years when we went to graduate school. It was hard, but worth it. My parents passed away a few years ago, and I know my husband is devoted to me as they were, so it makes the blow softer.

The issue to me is that your BF does not have the same values and outlook on life as you. Be true and good to yourself and find someone who shares these things to you, and loves you as family should.

EDIT: I just read the post that he was joking with you. That's really not nice. I have a toddler and would never want her to be with someone who treats her like that. One day, your spouse will be your family, and will need to love you and care for you as your parents do now.

 

[MisakiChan]

I feel the need to clarify some stuff. My bf and I share the same outlook on life, but the thing is I'm scared of being dragged along as just his gf for a long time. And he is a good guy and he feels the need to be acknowledged and loved by me. Of course, it's really tough for a man to propose. I know my bf loves me, because, trust me, we've been together through *a lot*. He is just terrified that I might divorce him one day or leave him while we're still unmarried.

 

[galeteia]

Ok, so first of all thanks everyone for your advice. You're all right, we are way too young.
Today however, something happened. My bf told me that he was just kidding last night, because he wants to be sure I want to spend the rest of my life with him no matter what and in the end, confessed that he is going to propose pretty soon. Soon as in this year!
Naturally, I'm in shock! Now all I have to do is hold on and be patient!

One more thing for your to do list!

* Spend rest of life with guy who toys w/your emotions to "test you"!

YAY!!!!!!!!!

My thoughts exactly...

Ditto. I went from sympathetic towards your BF and his realistic admission that he was not mature enough to marry to appalled. His unreadiness to marry still seems to be true ... it's one thing to do a subtle mislead to procure a surprise proposal, it's quite another to wreak havoc with your mental well-being like he's done as a 'test'.

Please do not rush into this, for your own sake. He's clearly not mature enough to get married, no matter which way you slice it- from a financial/career view or from a maturity view. He should be in the doghouse right now ... he needs to prove to you that he is someone who will put your well-being first, and that he is emotionally ready to be a responsible, supportive husband.

I cannot believe he used engagement, which is one of the most momentous decisions a person makes in their life, against you like that.

 

[MisakiChan]

I grew up in a very warm and kind family. My parents got married in college, at 23 years old. They've been together almost 25 years now. So, I believe it is not age, but the person, the factor that makes a marriage work. My parents were helped by their parents and are now doctors and support me and my brother.
My bf and I went through a lot. We've known each other before college and he's always loved me. I am his first girlfriend and yes, I know what you'll say, that he's immature and everything, but he's never let me down and I can always trust him. Me, I'm a total different deal. I've had countless crushes, bfs, guys in my life. But I really feel like he's the one.
So, you see, it's not that I'm in a rush to marry; because I know I'm young; but I want to be with him forever. The little stunt he pulled today simply shows me he is scared I won't love him anymore if something happens.

 

[decodelighted]

The little stunt he pulled today simply shows me he is scared I won't love him anymore if something happens.

Nope. That is NOT what that shows AT ALL. And the simple fact that you can't interpret this behavior any other way (than one that flatters you -- you cheeky girl!) is proof positive that you're a) too close to the matter ... b) desperate for a single outcome no matter what anyone says and c) not able to be reasoned w/ .... so PEACE OUT.

 

[gem_anemone]

I asked why getting married right now was most important to you. Out of your responses the only thing I got was "I'm scared of being dragged along as just his gf for a long time"

I don't think that is a very good reason to rush into marriage IMHO. It is the opposite. I would run from a guy that I thought was treating me poorly. My FI took awhile longer to propose than I wanted, but because I trust him fully, I never thought for a second that he was "dragging me along".

Your boyfriend's "test" was cruel. You should not be marrying someone who cannot communicate honestly and whom you cannot trust fully. I would definitely wait until the both of you are more mature.

 

[MisakiChan]

Well, I want to marry him because I love him, obviously. And I want the relationship to be official and I think marriage is the ultimate key to growth as far as love goes.

 

[MisakiChan]

Oh, I forgot to mention. He's also afraid that he won't be able to offer me too many material things, you know: money, a big house etc. I'm aware of that and have told him I'm not interested in those things.

 

[princesss]

The little stunt he pulled today simply shows me he is scared I won't love him anymore if something happens.

Nope. That is NOT what that shows AT ALL. And the simple fact that you can't interpret this behavior any other way (than one that flatters you -- you cheeky girl!) is proof positive that you're a) too close to the matter ... b) desperate for a single outcome no matter what anyone says and c) not able to be reasoned w/ .... so PEACE OUT.

Uh, yeah. I was honestly so impressed with your BF until I read it was all a "test". If somebody pulled something like that with my BFF, I would tell her to get the heck out of that relationship STAT! I don't think that young marriages are always a bad idea, but it takes 2 incredibly mature people to make it work, and the kind of person that would "test" their GF like that is not the kind that is ready for marriage. Not that he won't be ready at some point, but it just doesn't seem like he can handle an adult relationship, let alone marriage. And I think your LIWitis has gotten the best of you and Deco is spot on in regards to a, b, and c.

 

[MisakiChan]

Ok. So thanks again everyone. I've learned that we have yet to grow. However, I hope we get to find happiness in the meantime.
I wish you all the best!

 

[MissStepcut]

You said yourself you aren't ready yet. You were right. Tell him his little joke made you realize you are way too young for this and put that ring in a safety deposit box for a couple years. Don't let your rational side get you swept up.

 

[tammy77]

Seriously? If my long term BF said those things to me then the next day told me it was just a test, I'd be OUT. Then again, I would have already been gone. While some have said it harshly, they're right. Here's the deal. He's comfortable and has a steady thing here, and screwed up by revealing his disinterest in marriage. How does he fix it? He barely has to do anything at all. He just reels you RIGHT BACK IN by saying I'll propose "soon, probably THIS YEAR". You hear what you want, he makes a promise that he can easily get out of and POOF problem (temporarily, of course) solved.

Any "man" that toys with your emotions and rocks your confidence and security in a relationship because HE is scared isn't a man you want to rely on til death do you part, is it?

 

[Enerchi]

Well said Tammy.

This is not the type of man I would want to spend my life with. What seems now as a quick fix for the LIW-itis you are suffering from (getting a marriage proposal) is just the start of long term relationship with a potentially abusive partner, who toys with you psychologically. There is a serious imbalance of power already - and this is the 'honeymoon' part of your lives together. I don't think this would be a relationship I'd want to remain in....

and....

you are 20, living with parents, have years of school ahead of you. There is no rush to get thru life "first"!

 

[monarch64]

I feel the need to clarify some stuff. My bf and I share the same outlook on life, but the thing is I'm scared of being dragged along as just his gf for a long time. And he is a good guy and he feels the need to be acknowledged and loved by me. Of course, it's really tough for a man to propose. I know my bf loves me, because, trust me, we've been together through *a lot*. He is just terrified that I might divorce him one day or leave him while we're still unmarried.[/quote

Those are wonderful reasons to stay in a relationship and make it legal! You two seem well suited to each other, best of luck to you both!

 

[sweetpea&babycorn]

You went from being freaked out that your bf didn't want to marry you, and then with some reassurance here, decided that yes you are too young at 20 to want to marry (and YES IT IS TOO YOUNG). Then when your bf confessed to "testing" you, you are back on the bandwagon on wanting to get married and feeling so relieved that your bf really does want to get married. Sounds like you're more into the CONCEPT of getting married, because it makes your relationship "official" or whatever and there's a lot of security in being married than "just someone's gf for a long time."

You've received a lot of wise advice -
1) marriage is hard, and if you're willing to put up with a man who will test your emotions, you better be ready to be tested for a lot of other things for the rest of your life. In order for marriage to work, you BOTH need to be mature about the relationship, and that means being more open about your emotions and being better at communicating them, rather than testing one another
2) if you truly love him, and want to be with him, what's the rush? Marriage is a huge commitment, and takes a lot more than love to make a marriage happy. Even if you wait 5 years, you'll be 25 which is STILL younger than most people who get married. Unless you plan on popping out a bagillion babies before you're 30, focus less on age and more on the quality of your relationship.
3) Give yourself time to grow and figure out who you are. I missed #3 in my previous relationship which lasted over 6 years. I had grown and changed throughout those 6 years and realized that my relationship was also changing to something that wasn't going to last and wasn't fitting in with who I was becoming. Ending it was the hardest thing I had to do, but I have no regrets. I would hate to see this happen to you. So please think carefully about what your relationship means, what marriage would mean, if you're ready for the changes that will come with time, and if it's what you really truly want at your age.

 

[Asu]

I'm not going to tell you that you are too young to get married,because I think age has nothing to do with it.I got married at 21,we have now been together for 8 years and married for almost 5,so it can be done,it can work out amazingly.What I'm going to tell you is that neither you or your boyfriend sound mature enough to get married.To be honest he sounds like a piece of work.I would run very,very fast from a guy who purposely hurt my feelings that way because he want to "test" me.

 

[MissStepcut]

I'm not going to tell you that you are too young to get married,because I think age has nothing to do with it.I got married at 21,we have now been together for 8 years and married for almost 5,so it can be done,it can work out amazingly.What I'm going to tell you is that neither you or your boyfriend sound mature enough to get married.To be honest he sounds like a piece of work.I would run very,very fast from a guy who purposely hurt my feelings that way because he want to "test" me.

Statistically, age has plenty to do with it. While there will always be exceptions to the rule, the fact that the divorce rates go down for brides who are older is something worth taking into account. Edit: at least to stop and ask yourself, "am I being naïve and arrogant in my assumption that the rules don't apply to me, or do I have some reasonable basis?"

 

[Asu]

I'm not going to tell you that you are too young to get married,because I think age has nothing to do with it.I got married at 21,we have now been together for 8 years and married for almost 5,so it can be done,it can work out amazingly.What I'm going to tell you is that neither you or your boyfriend sound mature enough to get married.To be honest he sounds like a piece of work.I would run very,very fast from a guy who purposely hurt my feelings that way because he want to "test" me.

Statistically, age has plenty to do with it. While there will always be exceptions to the rule, the fact that the divorce rates go down for brides who are older is something worth taking into account. Edit: at least to stop and ask yourself, "am I being naïve and arrogant in my assumption that the rules don't apply to me, or do I have some reasonable basis?"

Well,in my experience,age has very little to do with it.I costantly see 30 or even 40 years old acting just as immature as teenagers,if not worse.Also,90% of the marriages I saw fail around me were between people who married older.It also may have something to do with the fact that I don't live in the US but let's put it this way.Maturity has everything to do with how long your marriage will last,whether you are 20,30 or 40 when you get married.

 

[MissStepcut]

I'm not going to tell you that you are too young to get married,because I think age has nothing to do with it.I got married at 21,we have now been together for 8 years and married for almost 5,so it can be done,it can work out amazingly.What I'm going to tell you is that neither you or your boyfriend sound mature enough to get married.To be honest he sounds like a piece of work.I would run very,very fast from a guy who purposely hurt my feelings that way because he want to "test" me.

Statistically, age has plenty to do with it. While there will always be exceptions to the rule, the fact that the divorce rates go down for brides who are older is something worth taking into account. Edit: at least to stop and ask yourself, "am I being naïve and arrogant in my assumption that the rules don't apply to me, or do I have some reasonable basis?"

Well,in my experience,age has very little to do with it.I costantly see 30 or even 40 years old acting just as immature as teenagers,if not worse.Also,90% of the marriages I saw fail around me were between people who married older.It also may have something to do with the fact that I don't live in the US but let's put it this way.Maturity has everything to do with how long your marriage will last,whether you are 20,30 or 40 when you get married.

Asu, if the statistics in your country or OP's show a different phenomenon, that's the relevant data to consider. But your own personal experience certainly isn't relevant, because we all fall victim to confirmation bias.

 

[nkarma]

I'm not going to tell you that you are too young to get married,because I think age has nothing to do with it.I got married at 21,we have now been together for 8 years and married for almost 5,so it can be done,it can work out amazingly.What I'm going to tell you is that neither you or your boyfriend sound mature enough to get married.To be honest he sounds like a piece of work.I would run very,very fast from a guy who purposely hurt my feelings that way because he want to "test" me.

Statistically, age has plenty to do with it. While there will always be exceptions to the rule, the fact that the divorce rates go down for brides who are older is something worth taking into account. Edit: at least to stop and ask yourself, "am I being naïve and arrogant in my assumption that the rules don't apply to me, or do I have some reasonable basis?"

Well,in my experience,age has very little to do with it.I costantly see 30 or even 40 years old acting just as immature as teenagers,if not worse.Also,90% of the marriages I saw fail around me were between people who married older.It also may have something to do with the fact that I don't live in the US but let's put it this way.Maturity has everything to do with how long your marriage will last,whether you are 20,30 or 40 when you get married.

Asu, if the statistics in your country or OP's show a different phenomenon, that's the relevant data to consider. But your own personal experience certainly isn't relevant, because we all fall victim to confirmation bias.

This thread is full of confirmation bias towards not marrying young. Why can't there be a story of people who succeeded? I agree statistics help but the LIW forum specifically tends to be a lot of personal stories. Therefore I think ASU's story is as important as anyone else. You didn't point out the posters that said, I married young and it didn't end well. Yes that is probably a lot more common. But the statistics are not that every young marriage ends in divorce or unhappiness.

I was actually surprised by all the responses regarding how the OP is too young and not really addressing the fact that they currently have different goals and timelines. I do not think it is helpful to say your bf is right (though he very likely) without really speaking to what the OP wanted to know. Given that she wants to get married now and she seems pretty sure of that decision, she either needs to find a man that does also want to get married now (not her bf) or decide that it is he who you want to spend the rest of your life with and how long you can wait to do that. Then follow through on whatever she decides.

But Misaki, if you want to explore the reasons for whether you want to marry at an age that is younger than most where you will statistically are much more likely to end up divorcing, that would probably be a smart endeavor.