Help bought this Sapphire but has a window!

[Aussiewen]

Hi everyone,
I just bought this natural Sapphire for a bargain price. I love everything about it except for 1 thing. That window in the middle. Is it possible to get the gem recut to remove the window. The sapphire is 5 carats. The measurements seemed all fine but why is there such a window? If I enclose the basket at the back would it help?
Thanks
Wen

 

[Bron357]

It’s not uncommon for a coloured gem to have a “window”.
yes, it can be recut to improve brilliance and remove the window but you will lose size. It’s unlikely to “fit” back into the same setting after a recut as it will be smaller.
A cup underneath would be a better option as it will keep the sapphire the same size. The window will still be there but you won’t see through to your finger.

 

[Kevin Bryant]

How deep is it? As someone who facets that looks like an easy one to close the window on. Depending on the measurements you might not even loose a lot of weight. The window is all about critical angle going below 34.6 degrees on the lower tier angle is the issue.

 

[YC]

I would suggest first testing by placing highly reflective white metal at the bottom of the basket to see if the window is less obvious. If it does, you should seriously consider placing a cup underneath as per @Bron357 's suggestion.
For me, recut is the last resort as the stone loses carat weight and will be smaller face up but someone with more experience with recuts can advise better.

 

[icy_jade]

I would suggest first testing by placing highly reflective white metal at the bottom of the basket to see if the window is less obvious. If it does, you should seriously consider placing a cup underneath as per @Bron357 's suggestion.
For me, recut is the last resort as the stone loses carat weight and will be smaller face up but someone with more experience with recuts can advise better.

A shiny aluminum foil works as well, if you cannot find a slim metal piece to slip behind the ring.

 

[fredflintstone]

Many stones can have the pavilion recut and not lose the face up size length and width wise. Send it to a reputable cutter and get his or her opinion. Easy fix.

 

[Aussiewen]

Hi everyone
Thanks for the advice. I think I paid a very good price for it being 5 carat with 1 carat of VS diamonds so I will certainly check with a gem cutter and or see if closing the basket up will help.

 

[Aussiewen]

Hi Kevin,
It is 6.97mm deep

How deep is it? As someone who facets that looks like an easy one to close the window on. Depending on the measurements you might not even loose a lot of weight. The window is all about critical angle going below 34.6 degrees on the lower tier angle is the issue.

 

[marymm]

Slip a smooth little piece of aluminum foil between your finger and the bottom of the ring and see if that helps close the window.

If you really find the window so distracting/unappealing, and tweaking the setting doesn't help, before embarking on a recut be certain you are also 100% okay with the likelihood the sapphire will appear different in color and faceting.

IMHO the sapphire is very pretty and the coloration is rather special ... if it were mine, I would not even consider recutting it.

 

[Aussiewen]

Hi Mary
Thanks for your reply. Yes I will give that a go. It’s currently in the store being paid off. Do you think I paid an ok price. It was $3300?

Slip a smooth little piece of aluminum foil between your finger and the bottom of the ring and see if that helps close the window.

If you really find the window so distracting/unappealing, and tweaking the setting doesn't help, before embarking on a recut be certain you are also 100% okay with the likelihood the sapphire will appear different in color and faceting.

IMHO the sapphire is very pretty and the coloration is rather special ... if it were mine, I would not even consider recutting it.

 

[chrono]

$3300 for a 5 ct sapphire with 1 ct diamonds in a setting is suspiciously too inexpensive.

 

[Aussiewen]

It’s all good! It came with a proper Valuation and says it’s a Natural sapphire with some visible inclusions under magnification.

$3300 for a 5 ct sapphire with 1 ct diamonds in a setting is suspiciously too inexpensive.

 

[Aussiewen]

I have attached the Valuation
Let me know what you think!

 

[GliderPoss]

Can I ask if this is a second hand/pawn shop purchase? Quick Google search shows Roy Beattie is a member of the GAA so probably a trustworthy opinion. Whilst valuations are usually high due to insurance purposes, if you paid less than $AU4K you got a bargain...

I would see if you can get a metal "cup" made underneath to close the window slightly.

 

[fredflintstone]

Hi Mary
Thanks for your reply. Yes I will give that a go. It’s currently in the store being paid off. Do you think I paid an ok price. It was $3300?

If it is pre-owned, you paid a fair price. If new, as someone else wrote, I'd suspect something is not quite right.

 

[Skyjems]

It’s not uncommon for a coloured gem to have a “window”.
yes, it can be recut to improve brilliance and remove the window but you will lose size. It’s unlikely to “fit” back into the same setting after a recut as it will be smaller.
A cup underneath would be a better option as it will keep the sapphire the same size. The window will still be there but you won’t see through to your finger.

As a professional: This is exactly the advice I would give if you were my client.

If you still don't like the look, you can re-cut, but Bron357 is correct that you would lose a lot of weight, and you may lose some colour depending on the zoning for the gem.

 

[Aussiewen]

Hi yes it’s preowned but new condition!

Thanks

Can I ask if this is a second hand/pawn shop purchase? Quick Google search shows Roy Beattie is a member of the GAA so probably a trustworthy opinion. Whilst valuations are usually high due to insurance purposes, if you paid less than $AU4K you got a bargain...

I would see if you can get a metal "cup" made underneath to close the window slightly.

 

[Aussiewen]

Hi Skygems,

Just out of curiosity how much would one charge to have the window removed? Would you recut or just enjoy it as it is?


Thanks
Wen

As a professional: This is exactly the advice I would give if you were my client.

If you still don't like the look, you can re-cut, but Bron357 is correct that you would lose a lot of weight, and you may lose some colour depending on the zoning for the gem.

 

[Bron357]

The problem with a recut is you’ll need a new setting. The size of the sapphire will be reduced. It will be too small to fit back into the existing setting. If the resulting size is different to ”standard size” eg 7mm x 5 mm / 8mm x 6mm youll need a custom made setting and that will run into the thousands. Here in Australia design / manufacture / setting costs are very high.
If you are in Australia there is Doug Menadue of Bespoke gems. He is in Sydney and I’ve dealt with him personally. However, he would need to see the sapphire, unset, to give you an opinion of the probable result. Recutting cost will be based on time taken, so a few hundred dollars most likely.
As Skyjems advised, the colour of your sapphire may be lighter or more zoned after a recut. Colour zoning in sapphires, that’s bands of crystal growth with a different hue, is common. A cutter often alters the Gem shape underneath to even up or intensify the colour seen “looking down”. A cutter does his/her “best” with the rough crystal to produce the biggest size and best and most even colour. The reason why many sapphires have windows is to keep carat weight.

 

[Horsegirl76]

I may be the exception here, and I agree with @marymm that it is a beautiful color and special as is. It may not be a perfect cut, but it’s color, size, and setting are special. I think the window gives it an antique vibe. There’s another poster here with a gorgeous antique sapphire ring that’s windowed, but I absolutely love it. Perhaps she will chime in here. Let us know what you decide to do.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

i should post what my much much much much much cheaper topaz looks like with and without a bit of tinfoil underneath

I may be the exception here, and I agree with @marymm that it is a beautiful color and special as is. It may not be a perfect cut, but it’s color, size, and setting are special. I think the window gives it an antique vibe. There’s another poster here with a gorgeous antique sapphire ring that’s windowed, but I absolutely love it. Perhaps she will chime in here. Let us know what you decide to do.

ive read the Victorians were into windows because it was (dont know the Victorian word) sexy to see the skin through the stone

 

[Skyjems]

Hi Skygems,

Just out of curiosity how much would one charge to have the window removed? Would you recut or just enjoy it as it is?


Thanks
Wen

You could probably find someone for as little as $150-$200, or up to $600+++ USD + shipping, insurance, taxes etc. depending on the cutter.

If it was my piece, I would keep it as is for now and just add the cup.

You paid a ridiculously low price for it, if you put another few hundred dollars into the cup, and enjoy it like that for a while, and later change the mount and re-cut for $2000-$2500, you are still way ahead.

Also, you can't undo the cutting if you aren't happy with the results, and you will likely need a new mount, and maybe right now isn't the time to put a lot more money into the piece?

 

[Bluemuse]

I think your ring is beautiful as is!
I love the color and shape of your sapphire and it seems to me the price you paid was very fair considering the size of the stone. The area where you’re seeing a “window” still has some good color intensity and is relatively small as windows go, so I don’t see it as problematic as some might.
I don’t think I’d be willing to chance loosing any color strength in a recut.

I’m a little unsure about the option of placing a cup beneath for a couple reasons-
1. Concern for ease of keeping the underside of the stone clean and
2. I know how much my sapphire benefits from free and clear sunlight streaming all around the stone which a cup might limit.

In the end what you have is a beautifully colored, non precision cut stone with a lot of presence, at a great price.
I’d say enjoy it as is. My sapphire has a window. It’s an old cut stone and too shallow to recut. I accept the imperfection and honestly don’t think about it.
I love it as is. Tolerance for these things varies person to person so I guess you have to decide what you can tolerate. You want to love it. Best of luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Aussiewen]

Hi Bluemuse,
I would love to see a photo of your sapphire.

Thanks so much for your input!


W.

I think your ring is beautiful as is!
I love the color and shape of your sapphire and it seems to me the price you paid was very fair considering the size of the stone. The area where you’re seeing a “window” still has some good color intensity and is relatively small as windows go, so I don’t see it as problematic as some might.
I don’t think I’d be willing to chance loosing any color strength in a recut.

I’m a little unsure about the option of placing a cup beneath for a couple reasons-
1. Concern for ease of keeping the underside of the stone clean and
2. I know how much my sapphire benefits from free and clear sunlight streaming all around the stone which a cup might limit.

In the end what you have is a beautifully colored, non precision cut stone with a lot of presence, at a great price.
I’d say enjoy it as is. My sapphire has a window. It’s an old cut stone and too shallow to recut. I accept the imperfection and honestly don’t think about it.
I love it as is. Tolerance for these things varies person to person so I guess you have to decide what you can tolerate. You want to love it. Best of luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Aussiewen]

Thank you x

You could probably find someone for as little as $150-$200, or up to $600+++ USD + shipping, insurance, taxes etc. depending on the cutter.

If it was my piece, I would keep it as is for now and just add the cup.

You paid a ridiculously low price for it, if you put another few hundred dollars into the cup, and enjoy it like that for a while, and later change the mount and re-cut for $2000-$2500, you are still way ahead.

Also, you can't undo the cutting if you aren't happy with the results, and you will likely need a new mount, and maybe right now isn't the time to put a lot more money into the piece?

 

[Niel]

As others have said I would leave it as is. Now I am a notorious recutter when I am starting with a blank canvas. However - you are not. Also. I have also been in your position where you have to consider - do you have a perfect cut and lose one of those major ct marks in the process. I chose in my instance to valued both going below X cts and that meant having some windowing. You’ve got to decide what is important to
honestly that window is not that bad and the beauty of buying a completed ring is you’ve purchased all the character that ring already had.Appreciate it for what it is and don’t let all the threads that equate window to bad without contexts. Sure a window is not ideal and when starting from scratch we want to strive for ideal. Don’t perfect be the enemy of good.
i would say tho in my experience a gold cutter can often times keep the safe up dimensions pretty well. Or at least asses a stone and tell you if they would be able to or not prior to cutting.

 

[Niel]

God my previous comment or riddled with typos. I’m sorry that was right when I got up and apparently I wasn’t paying the right amount of attention

 

[Bluemuse]

Hi Bluemuse,
I would love to see a photo of your sapphire.

Thanks so much for your input!


W.

Sure, I’m happy to share.
The first two show the window and the last one shows what I see when the ring is on and I look face down. Somehow the inclusions and the light conspire so that I see primarily color and not a window. I think with your ring you should be seeing mostly beautiful color.. with a small window, yes.
It appears to have good brilliance overall. Does it also brighten in the sun?
That aspect can vary stone to stone. Mine is not a sparkly type sapphire which would be a deficit for some, though it does have nice luster.
A small window may be a trade off for a lot of other pluses, especially size and price.
By today’s precision cut standards mine would be in the reject pile. As I said, I accept it with its unique attributes and greatly appreciate it as is.

 

[fredflintstone]

The problem with a recut is you’ll need a new setting. The size of the sapphire will be reduced. It will be too small to fit back into the existing setting. If the resulting size is different to ”standard size” eg 7mm x 5 mm / 8mm x 6mm youll need a custom made setting and that will run into the thousands. Here in Australia design / manufacture / setting costs are very high.
If you are in Australia there is Doug Menadue of Bespoke gems. He is in Sydney and I’ve dealt with him personally. However, he would need to see the sapphire, unset, to give you an opinion of the probable result. Recutting cost will be based on time taken, so a few hundred dollars most likely.
As Skyjems advised, the colour of your sapphire may be lighter or more zoned after a recut. Colour zoning in sapphires, that’s bands of crystal growth with a different hue, is common. A cutter often alters the Gem shape underneath to even up or intensify the colour seen “looking down”. A cutter does his/her “best” with the rough crystal to produce the biggest size and best and most even colour. The reason why many sapphires have windows is to keep carat weight.

Not necessarily, if the OP has just a pavilion recut.

I’ve had many stones with belly trims. The face up stays the same.

 

[fredflintstone]

You can alway have a new head put in the ring too, if possible.