Help evaluate this tourmaline, please

[blueiris]

I would like a blue-green tourmaline and found this one to consider. It's 8.42x7.77x6.50 and 3.14 carats, VVS clarity according to the vendor, and from Namibia. I want to set it in a ring, most likely with a bezel setting.

I would really appreciate any help. I've taken some photos in various lighting condtions. They're quite close-up photos - not sure if that's good or not.

Is this well cut? The vendor said it does not have a window.

Is the color good? Would this color darken when set, especially with a bezel setting? Because the stone is not exactly square, I see a shifting darkness as I move it, much as I have with some oval stones or other elongated shapes. I think that is extinction? But I don't know if it's too much. The color also shifts from blue-green to more of a green, depending on the lighting.

I've made some comments with each group of photos as to the lighting. In the ones on my hand, I think my camera reads my skin tones a little reddish.

If more photos would help, I will try my best! Thanks for any help evaluating this tourmaline.

 

[blueiris]

These photos were taken in sunlight.

 

[blueiris]

These photos were taken in filtered sunlight, under a porch roof.

 

[blueiris]

These photos were taken in filtered sunlight, under a tree.

 

[blueiris]

Here is one of the stone upside down, on my hand, taken in filtered sunlight.

 

[T L]

I would like a blue-green tourmaline and found this one to consider. It's 8.42x7.77x6.50 and 3.14 carats, VVS clarity according to the vendor, and from Namibia. I want to set it in a ring, most likely with a bezel setting.

I would really appreciate any help. I've taken some photos in various lighting condtions. They're quite close-up photos - not sure if that's good or not.

Is this well cut? The vendor said it does not have a window.

Is the color good? Would this color darken when set, especially with a bezel setting? Because the stone is not exactly square, I see a shifting darkness as I move it, much as I have with some oval stones or other elongated shapes. I think that is extinction? But I don't know if it's too much. The color also shifts from blue-green to more of a green, depending on the lighting.

I've made some comments with each group of photos as to the lighting. In the ones on my hand, I think my camera reads my skin tones a little reddish.

If more photos would help, I will try my best! Thanks for any help evaluating this tourmaline.

Depends on the price per carat. To be honest, it's a little dark and grayish for my taste, but others may find it pleasing, especially if the price is fair.

The cutting is not that great either. It's cut very deep, so you're losing face up size, and that can also add to its extinction.

 

[FrekeChild]

Do you have any pictures of it inside? It's hard to read it outside since you're under a green tree and have green grass in the background. Inside close to a window is where I like to take pictures... unless I'm trying to get a read on color shift.

 

[blueiris]

TL, thank you for your comments - they are very much appreciated!

It was $420/ct. Is that an expensive per carat price, given the color & cutting?

I like the color sometimes but sometimes I do see more grey tones and I don't like those. I don't mind the green color it shows sometimes, but is that a detriment, or is it more a matter of personal preferences?

 

[blueiris]

Do you have any pictures of it inside? It's hard to read it outside since you're under a green tree and have green grass in the background. Inside close to a window is where I like to take pictures... unless I'm trying to get a read on color shift.

Not yet - it was raining today until just a bit ago so I ran outside to take photos. I'll get some near a window as soon as I can. Thank you!

 

[bluebirrrd]

Hi blueiris!

There is nothing wrong with it's belly if it doesn't bother you and as long as it fits in a setting you like. The shape is very pretty to me and it's a big size. Do you like the facet pattern when viewed from above? That's subjective and very important! To see how color changes in a bezel, many here suggest replicating a tiny bezel from foil and wrapping it around the edge of the gem.

I think it's very pretty, but you have it in hand and your opinion matters most! The gray would bother me if it shows often and prominently. A small amount occasionally probably wouldn't.

 

[blueiris]

Here are some more photos, taken indoors near a window. I have to say, I am not loving the color of the stone in some of these. The blue seems to disappear completely at times.

 

[blueiris]

A few more.

 

[blueiris]

Hi blueiris!

There is nothing wrong with it's belly if it doesn't bother you and as long as it fits in a setting you like. The shape is very pretty to me and it's a big size. Do you like the facet pattern when viewed from above? That's subjective and very important! To see how color changes in a bezel, many here suggest replicating a tiny bezel from foil and wrapping it around the edge of the gem.

I think it's very pretty, but you have it in hand and your opinion matters most! The gray would bother me if it shows often and prominently. A small amount occasionally probably wouldn't.

Hi bluebirrrd! Thank you for your reply. I am so new to colored gems that I don't know if the bigger belly bothers me - and I don't have a setting in mind yet. But I do know that I like my rings to sit as low as possible because I'm always knocking them on things otherwise, so maybe the bigger belly could be problematic. Is there a depth percentage that is good to stay within when choosing colored stones? If I've figured the depth on this one correctly, it seems like it's about 80%.

I do like the size - that is one reason I wanted to see it in person. The vendor photos showed its blue side, not its green/grey side. And I do like the shape. Ideally, I'd like to have a square-ish cushion - but when viewing this stone from above, I see a black line down the middle that is a bit bothersome to me. I don't know if that is something that happens with this shape, and if it can be avoided with other shapes, different types of cutting, or ?

 

[bluebirrrd]

A larger gem like this won't be as low profile as a smaller one and 6.5mm is pretty tall for me, it will definitely be a presence. It's only the right one if you love it but you've expressed several doubts.

 

[minousbijoux]

blueiris: send it back. You are not wild about the stone and that is enough reason, but I'll add a few more:

1) Color: you mention color not quite being what you seek twice in the thread. You mention that you don't like grey (which is low saturation) sometimes and you acknowledge that you see it. It sounds like you might not have had a chance to see what it does in low light conditions, but I imagine from how you've described it so far, that it will darken up considerably and grey out. Check it out in various low light situations and see what you think and whether it bothers you. Also, remember that bezeling it will darken it further. The foil test is an excellent way to get a ballpark idea.

2) Extinction - some people are more bothered by it than others. But from your description it sounds like not only does it have "shadowing," which many of us incorrectly call 1/2 and 1/2 extinction, but that it bothers you. Everyone is different so go with your gut on this.

3) Cut - Someone already mentioned it, but it bares repeating: if its a deep stone, then you are paying for weight you can't see. That might not mean much until you realize that you might be able to find a stone of less weight but the same dimensions so that you would pay less for a similarly sized stone. I like the facet pattern of your stone, but its definitely not precision cut in case you are fussed about this.

4) Price. At $420/ct, imo, the stone is on the high side - that wouldn't stop me if I loved the stone, but I can't speak for you. Remember that also due to its deep cutting, it is relatively more expensive than a comparable stone of similar dimension - if that makes any sense.

I am impressed that you are able to articulate so clearly the things that you did not like about the stone; it says that it will become a good comp for the next stone you see in hand.

 

[JewelFreak]

Everything Minou said. Disappointing to send it back but if it doesn't make your heart sing, it's not THE one. I think it would darken enough in a bezel setting not to show the color well at all. Looks like an indicolite -- is it? They can be tricky sometimes.

You have a good sense of what you like & don't like -- yours is waiting out there!

-- Laurie

 

[T L]

TL, thank you for your comments - they are very much appreciated!

It was $420/ct. Is that an expensive per carat price, given the color & cutting?

I like the color sometimes but sometimes I do see more grey tones and I don't like those. I don't mind the green color it shows sometimes, but is that a detriment, or is it more a matter of personal preferences?

Well, for me, I should like the color in all lighting, not just some of the times. I think you can do better, especially at that price point.

 

[blueiris]

A larger gem like this won't be as low profile as a smaller one and 6.5mm is pretty tall for me, it will definitely be a presence. It's only the right one if you love it but you've expressed several doubts.

bluebirrrd, I'm tall, so I can handle larger stones, but it's more the bumping it into things that causes problems for me (clumsy) ) You're right that I have expressed some doubts - without knowing if those are reasonable doubts, if that makes sense! For instance, my doubt about the blackish "lines" I can see - is that related to the cut (i.e., that it's not precision cut) or the squarish shape, or something else? If it's related to the cut itself, then yes, it would bother me because I wouldn't like seeing it and knowing that I could have avoided that with a stone that is well-cut. If it's related to the shape - a "necessary" result of that shape - then it wouldn't bother me much, because I think I would be able to accept it as part of the way a squarish stone looks.

For my color hesitations (changing colors, greying), again, I just don't know enough. I don't know if all tourmalines change colors in various lighting situations - if they do, then I would be expecting those changes and would be able to decide if I like the changes. But if really great tourmalines hold their color better in more lighting, then I would be bothered more because I would know it is avoidable with a better stone.

I hope all of that makes sense! Thank you again for your input!

blueiris: send it back. You are not wild about the stone and that is enough reason, but I'll add a few more:

1) Color: you mention color not quite being what you seek twice in the thread. You mention that you don't like grey (which is low saturation) sometimes and you acknowledge that you see it. It sounds like you might not have had a chance to see what it does in low light conditions, but I imagine from how you've described it so far, that it will darken up considerably and grey out. Check it out in various low light situations and see what you think and whether it bothers you. Also, remember that bezeling it will darken it further. The foil test is an excellent way to get a ballpark idea.

2) Extinction - some people are more bothered by it than others. But from your description it sounds like not only does it have "shadowing," which many of us incorrectly call 1/2 and 1/2 extinction, but that it bothers you. Everyone is different so go with your gut on this.

3) Cut - Someone already mentioned it, but it bares repeating: if its a deep stone, then you are paying for weight you can't see. That might not mean much until you realize that you might be able to find a stone of less weight but the same dimensions so that you would pay less for a similarly sized stone. I like the facet pattern of your stone, but its definitely not precision cut in case you are fussed about this.

4) Price. At $420/ct, imo, the stone is on the high side - that wouldn't stop me if I loved the stone, but I can't speak for you. Remember that also due to its deep cutting, it is relatively more expensive than a comparable stone of similar dimension - if that makes any sense.

I am impressed that you are able to articulate so clearly the things that you did not like about the stone; it says that it will become a good comp for the next stone you see in hand.

minousbijoux, thank you so much for your detailed reply!

I am going to wrap it in foil and see what happens in various lighting situations. I did take it in a low light area yesterday and it did appear to grey out. But at other times, I really like the color.

I read something about shadowing in an article written by Richard Wise. He talked about how the facets, and especially the pavilion facets, can't be uniform in an asymmetrical stone, leading to irregular light refraction. I've seen that half and half shadowing in all of the ovals and elongated cushions I looked at while trying to find a sapphire for a ring. I also see it in the sapphire I ended up buying (from Dana). So based on that, I understand (I think!) why it happens, and that doesn't bother me as much as the dark areas (extinction?) not related to the "half and half" shadowing. (But now I'm really wondering ... should well-cut stones never have that half and half shadowing?) As far as extinction, I also read that some extinction is desirable for scintillation (is that true?)

Your comment, and the same comment from others, about the depth and per carat price bothers me. I don't like the idea of paying for weight I can't see. As you say, it might be less of an issue if I were madly in love, but I think my gut has been telling me that I'm not. I like the stone, in most lighting and most of the time, but I don't think I absolutely love it. And since it's on the high side for price, I feel like I should just love it. Plus it will be expensive to set it and I only want to do that if I love the stone.

How do you tell from the photos that it's not precision cut? I don't have the world's best eyesight, given my age, but I'd love to know how to tell from photos and possibly save myself some hassle of getting and returning stones?

Thank you again for your great input!

Everything Minou said. Disappointing to send it back but if it doesn't make your heart sing, it's not THE one. I think it would darken enough in a bezel setting not to show the color well at all. Looks like an indicolite -- is it? They can be tricky sometimes.

You have a good sense of what you like & don't like -- yours is waiting out there!

-- Laurie

Laurie, Thank you for your comments! I don't know if it's an indicolite - the vendor didn't say it is. I'm not totally sure I want a bezel setting but I don't want to rule it out at this point since I love bezels. If I find a stone I really love and it won't work well in a bezel setting, then I will reconsider. The most important thing to me is that I love the stone; I'm sure I can find a ring design that I will love, too.

I hope you are right that mine is waiting out there! I haven't been looking very long but even so, I haven't seen much. I would love any help from all of you fabulous stone hunters!

I would also really like a paraiba tourmaline for our anniversary next year (35th), and I sense that is going to be a long (and possibly futile) hunt!

Well, for me, I should like the color in all lighting, not just some of the times. I think you can do better, especially at that price point.

TL, thank you again. If I can do better at that price point, then I want to! Setting is expensive and I want to absolutely love the ring so I wear it a lot. And since I prefer simple settings, the stone will be the "star" so I need to love it.

 

[peacechick]

Here is a nice blue green tourmaline just put up by NKOTB. What do you think?

http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/large-precision-cut-tourmaline

 

[FrekeChild]

Here is a nice blue green tourmaline just put up by NKOTB. What do you think?

http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/large-precision-cut-tourmaline

What Minou said.

Also, I'd inquire with NKOTB. I know that she's undergoing some major home renovations right now, so is unloading in a big way, and even if this one doesn't float your boat, she might have another one that does. (She has a LOT of really beautiful stones!)

 

[blueiris]

Here is a nice blue green tourmaline just put up by NKOTB. What do you think?

http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/large-precision-cut-tourmaline

Thank you for pointing that out! It's a great size and an interesting shape, but I am really hoping to find a square-ish, cushion shape.

 

[blueiris]

What Minou said.

Also, I'd inquire with NKOTB. I know that she's undergoing some major home renovations right now, so is unloading in a big way, and even if this one doesn't float your boat, she might have another one that does. (She has a LOT of really beautiful stones!)

Thank you for the suggestion, FrekeChildl; I'll send NKOTB an email. Maybe she'll have something!

 

[FrekeChild]

So, does this mean that first stone is a no for sure?

 

[blueiris]

So, does this mean that first stone is a no for sure?

Yes, it is going back. I was really torn because I like the size and shape, and I like the color much of the time. When it looks blue, it is very, very pretty! That blue shows in some of my photos. I also don't mind the lighter green color it shows in some lighting. It goes dark and grey, or dark greenish, in low light so that is a disadvantage.

I think the main things for me were that several people commented it is expensive per carat, and that they think I can do better, especially for that price. It also darkened somewhat when I wrapped it with foil and I really wanted to bezel it, so that's another factor. Since I'm not completely smitten with it, I feel it is best not to keep it.

 

[FrekeChild]

I think that's a good decision. For that price, that thing better be bright and glowy all of the time. And it's not.

Just curious, where did you get it?

 

[GregS]

TL, thank you for your comments - they are very much appreciated!

It was $420/ct. Is that an expensive per carat price, given the color & cutting?

I like the color sometimes but sometimes I do see more grey tones and I don't like those. I don't mind the green color it shows sometimes, but is that a detriment, or is it more a matter of personal preferences?

I have a couple Tourmalines similar in color and yes, I think that is too much.

I paid in the 200-250 neighborhood ppc.

 

[minousbijoux]

TL, thank you for your comments - they are very much appreciated!

It was $420/ct. Is that an expensive per carat price, given the color & cutting?

I like the color sometimes but sometimes I do see more grey tones and I don't like those. I don't mind the green color it shows sometimes, but is that a detriment, or is it more a matter of personal preferences?

I have a couple Tourmalines similar in color and yes, I think that is too much.

I paid in the 200-250 neighborhood ppc.

Yup, this price would make me more comfortable as well. But OP keep in mind the bigger the carat weight, the greater the ppc, all other things being equal.

 

[GregS]

The stone I had in mind was a 3.05 ct Afghani Tourmaline from Roger Dery. It was around 250- per carat. Not trying to side track, strictly for color reference and price... This is it set (below). It's dark but rarely blacks out and shows more green than blue most of the time. And judging by the pictures, the stone in question will show more green. It's easy to manipulate the color on stones like this to appear more blue in photographs (bottom) by flooding them with direct light. None of these pictures show the stones true nature.

 

[chrono]

If the price is less, some faults can be forgiven. The cut is decent but not really good, hence the less pleasing unsymmetrical darkness is seen. I would pass on this one. If colour and price is good, I can forgive a deeper 80% pavilion.

 

[blueiris]

I think that's a good decision. For that price, that thing better be bright and glowy all of the time. And it's not.

Just curious, where did you get it?

From a vendor called Treasure Gems, in Australia. I found him on the Gemology Online Marketplace; just doing a general search for blue tourmalines led me there. He's responsive and prompt with answers to questions. It cost a lot to return the stone, so now I'll be extra leery about overseas purchases. He promptly refunded me upon receipt so I can say that he seems professional in dealing with his customers.

I wish there was a way to ask on PS about a stone prior to purchasing it without leaving oneself open to someone "snatching" it! I feel like I'm operating in the dark because I just don't know enough.