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Help Finding a Champagne Diamond and OEC Cutter

M

mufjp

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
22
As my gf and I have been searching for an e-ring, we had a chance to see a champagne colored diamond ring by Anna Sheffield.

http://www.annasheffield.com/products/hazeline-round-champagne-3

My gf has always said she wanted a near colorless stone on white metal, but now after having looked at the ring she just fell in love with it. So, the countless hours of researching on my part has been for naught :roll: but I better get her what she really wants, right?

So, can anyone help me find a champagne diamond? The one we saw was light champagne, so I'm guessing the shade is around C2-C4 range on the Argyle scale. I'd like to get something in the 1-1.25 carat range. I've browsed the DBL website, but their prices seem out of my range. How much should I expect to pay realistically for a nice stone? and where would you recommend I buy it? I've seen many yellow/brown diamonds on eBay from Thailand sellers... and it looks like they are going for around $1500 or less.. I'm not sure whether they are reputable sellers and their specs are very vague and pictures don't look very nice.

Ideally, I'd love to have this recut to an OEC (love the chunky faceting!).. can you guys recommend me a recutter who can cut nice OECs at a reasonable rate? I'm located in NY, but I'll consider anybody in the States.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
One more thing I wanted to add! We're also considering a yellow sapphire as an option. Would it look similar to a champagne colored diamond? I'm just wondering if sapphires would be just as sparkly as diamonds, if cut right.
 
I'm totally not an expert on any of these subjects, but from what I think I know:

Many brown diamonds come from Argyle which has only been open since the 80s so I think a brown OEC would be a little hard to find. I'm not really sure the economics of recutting is going to work. DON'T buy an eBay diamond from Thailand and think you can have it recut! I guess C1-C2 is nominally "light champagne."

If it must be antique style, DBL has their line of old mine cuts that look great. What were you looking to spend? In any case, you should send an email to the vendors who specialize in this type of thing to see if they have anything that would fit the bill.

Sapphires don't look like diamonds. You can concave cut sapphires for more liveliness, but that doesn't look antique at all.

Light yellow/brown OEC, maybe it can be tweaked to improve cut or color:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9828/
 
You can look up one of Niel's threads about this. Sorry, on phone, can't link. But general consensus about buying a diamond to recut is "no". Cutting any diamond is risky, and you have to find one that's very inclusion-clean so there's nothing in the way for cutting.... You might as well find a warmer colored OEC, which is a fine a dozen. However $1.5K for a 1.5CT stone might be too optimistic....
 
Argyles are fairly expensive you pay for the name. I agree you would be better buying a low coloured or slightly brown tinted OEC or August Vintage Round from GOG or Jewels By Erica Grace (JBEG) or getting a low coloured RB and asking Jon at GOG to recut it for you. Generally it is not economically to recut stones, and the stuff you see on ebay from Thailand and China that is lower coloured or tinted that is cheap is generally not eye clean and the cuts are mostly quite awful. I have also seen ebay sellers claiming to sell Champagne, Cognac and Pink Argyles for bargain prices and they are not really from the Argyle mines in Western Australia.
 
Take a look at this item # on eBay: 111055784941
Sorry, can't link. Very warm color, large, in budget, just don't know about the clarity and cut. But the price is very nice, 14 day return policy but w/ 10% restock... Still, I think it might be worth lookin at.!!
 
I would absolutely contact Jonathan at Good Old Gold on Long Island. He recently had some light brown diamonds (for recut) that were gorgeous, and he has other lower colors. He has two cutters that cut new OEC's to excellent light performance. I am buying one of his newly cut stones now. They are called August Vintage Rounds. This is what he has in stock but he can have a stone cut as well. He knows the measurements the old stone needs in order to recut. I'd make an appointment to go out there and see the diamonds and discuss a recut if they don't have what you want.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamondResults.php?shape=1&ctMin=0.4&ctMax=10&optSym=64&inHouse=3&resultsColumns=268435535

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7493/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8849/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8240/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7493/
 
You also might check with Adam at Old World Diamonds, in addition to the vendors already mentioned.

liz
 
That is such a pretty stone! But I cannot recommend an I1 with visible inclusions for an engagement ring. It would make a gorgeous pendant, though!
 
You could also contact someone at JbEG too (http://jewelsbyericagrace.com/) - they might have some diamonds in stock that fit your criteria.

Good luck! That inspiration ring is lovely!
 
Have you considered searching for an old cut in a top light brown color? They aren't very hard to find.

Here's a comparison pic of two stones we recently had for sale (both are sold). Both were graded as N color by EGL USA. One had a yellow undertone and the other had a brown undertone. Quite a noticeable difference when compared side by side, and the top brown stone really has a champagne vibe going on! Though not as saturated in color as a true champagne colored stone, it's an option you might want to include in your search. Especially if you can find a stone even lower than N in color, with a top brown hue.

photo_27_0.jpg

photo_28_.jpg

photo_35_.jpg

photo_37_.jpg
 
Thanks for all the suggestions and advice! :appl:
I'm afraid to ask what GOG would charge for an AVR recut.. I see that they have some ideal cut RB stones in stock and to have it recut, they charge a whopping premium of almost $1500. If that's what they normally charge for a recut, I definitely can't afford that. I was thinking more of a $200-$300 per carat for a recut.

Has anyone ever buy a diamond from one of these eBay sellers and have had success?

That OMC stone by GemFever is absolutely lovely btw. Wish it had less inclusion, though. I'd definitely consider an OMC stone as well if anyone has a recommendation for me.

I recently had a chance to see an EGL-graded K stone.. the seller did tell me it would be probably closer to the M-O grade in GIA scale. While I appreciated the warmth in the stone, it was not champagne-y enough for my gf. EricaD, can you please tell me more about that N stone with brown undertone?

Thanks guys!
 
If you buy an AVR from Good Old Gold, you wouldn't have to have it recut -- that's why people have recommended it. An AVR is cut to look like an OEC, but it has ideal light performance so it's the best of both worlds. I think the safest and most cost-effective thing for you to do is to contact one of the vendors mentioned here and see what they can do for you in finding a lower color OEC that trends toward brown instead of yellow. Most authentic OEC's are of lower color anyway.

I've been in love with this one except for the inclusion: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10240/
You could see if Jon has any coming in in a similar color.
 
I just bought a fantastic brown from DBL so I would at least give them a call or send an email asking about their inventory... or just walk in if you're close by in New York! Lucky you! That GOG avr is beautiful as well but I wonder about that line going through it/ how well you can see it in real life. I wouldn't look at recutting because you could lose a lot of weight of the stone and will have to figure out if the recut is worth the cost in the end.
Is your budget $1500? Unless you're on ebay from what I've found shopping around for a brown, it's going to be very difficult to find a well cut eye-clean brown for 1.5 for $1500... or any other color. I think that what's in preloved right now is a great option as they both look beautiful as well and maybe you can make an offer for something better to your budget?
 
My budget is max $2500. I'd want something in the 1-1.25 carat range.. not 1.5.
There just seems to be a considerable markup on the stones that GOG and DBL sell.. don't they buy used stones and recut them as well?
Obviously, if I choose to go the recutting route, I'll have to find me a competent cutter first and will discuss all the inherent risks and cost beforehand, hopefully within the return period of the diamond I buy.

I feel like I've only read success stories in regards to recutting experiences on the forum although I'm sure they had to choose their stones very carefully.
 
I personally don't think buying an e-ring stone just to recut is a good idea. IF it's able to be recut and it's accepted for a recut, you still don't know how it's going to turn out or how much smaller it will become and it definitely won't be returnable after. It's definitely a risk I hear. If it's not in your budget I would just buy a nice stone from someplace that has a good upgrade policy then upgrade when you have the funds later to a bigger stone.

I know BGD does great recuts and i think hearing it's around $350 per carat. If you find a stone and you're set on recutting then I would talk to them. They also have a setting fee on top of it if you're bringing in an outside stone if you're going to get it set by them. Most places will have a setting fee if you buy it somewhere else.

Markups as opposed to where? I've been shopping for a brown for the last two weeks and have looked at almost every vendor out there. Minus ebay, unless the diamonds are branded (AVC, AVR, DBL Yoram cut) I find DBL to be very competitive and you get the vendor's good eye to look at them and weed out awful ones. I got the best price from DBL so far from any vendor I've worked with. It never hurts to ask about their inventory or what you're looking for. Fancydiamonds.net also sells browns and they have great customer service.

Someone can correct me since I haven't heard of that practice but it could be true, but DBL and GOG do recut into their branded diamonds but their non branded diamonds are diamonds they've gotten in from their original cut wherever it was (israel, new york, etc.) unless it was mentioned. If they do though, I'm sure that there were those that didn't come out well and was not a success since there's a risk to recut IF it is recuttable. You might want to look at James Allen, Blue Nile, USA Certed as well just in case to get an idea of prices for what you're looking for.

And if your total ring budget is $2500, you're also going to need to subtract the setting cost. If $2500 for the stone I think it'd be a great idea to talk to the pretty ones that are in PreLoved and see if it's in your budget.

good luck.
 
Thanks for the advice, Snowy.

My budget for the stone is $2500.. another $1-1.5K for setting, btw.

I guess my best is to find a used stone at the pre-loved section? About my original "mark up" comment, I was saying GOG is charging $1500 more for recutting an ideal RB into one of their branded AV cuts. Granted, it's a branded cut so I guess it''ll command a premium, but if I can find an OEC cutter who's just as capable, wouldn't that save me some $$?

Also, my general impression is that these brown diamonds have been only recently marketed as "champagne" "cognac" and other such marketing terms.. and have been historically not considered desirable and the prices were much cheaper compared to white diamonds, no?
 
http://www.rubylane.com/item/530807-u115/Antique-diamond-mens-ring-gold

http://www.rubylane.com/item/812539-ZG-1006/Chocolate-Cognac-Diamond-White-Zircon

http://www.rubylane.com/item/805705-LDR-00670/Chocolate-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-Vintage


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-GIA-Loose-1-05ct-Fancy-Light-Brown-Round-Brilliant-Diamond-Y-Z-I-1-/290774162743?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item43b37d9d37

http://www.ebay.com/itm/77ct-Fancy-Deep-Yellow-Brown-SI2-Emerald-Cut-Beautiful-R5150-Diamonds-by-Lauren-/230962888401?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item35c675fed1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/52ct-Fancy-Light-Yellow-Brown-SI2-Heart-Shape-Lively-R4829-Diamonds-by-Lauren-/230957979288?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item35c62b1698



http://www.ebay.com/itm/85ct-K-SI1-Old-European-Cut-GIA-Fantastic-Sparkle-R4479-Diamonds-by-Lauren-/230958455667?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item35c6325b73

http://www.ebay.com/itm/51ct-Fancy-Yellow-Brown-VS1-Round-Brilliant-Halo-Ring-R4615-Diamonds-by-Lauren-/230957447972?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item35c622fb24

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-05ct-Fancy-Brown-Yellow-SI1-Cushion-Cut-GIA-Beautiful-R5132-Diamonds-by-Lauren-/230957979287?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item35c62b1697


Not brown but nice

http://www.ebay.com/itm/95ct-E-I1-Emerald-Cut-Diamond-Ring-w-Double-Baguettes-R1861-Diamonds-by-Lauren-/230962888398?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item35c675fece

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/rings/0.81ct-natural-brown-18k-yellow-gold-diamond-cluster-ring/9630/1/item#

over budget but nice
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-11ct-Emerald-Cut-Fancy-Yellowish-Brown-3-Stone-Ring-R4127-Diamonds-by-Lauren-/230955272052?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item35c601c774
 
Yes, there is certainly a markup with branded diamonds but they are definite sparklers as it is cut into ideal light performance!
If you don't mind a used diamond, they are great for the budget. (Not all of them are well priced so watch out) but used diamonds usually so not sell at full retail value from consumer to consumer.

I'm not familiar with OEC or recutting in general so I can't comment much on it except I just said I wouldn't recommend it for the e-ring because it's the engagement ring stone. What if you find a 1.6 ct in your budget and they recut it and the color or size is not what you want when you end up with it? But hopefully others can chime in.

Do you have a specific setting in mind? Maybe your girlfriend likes a simple solitaire and you can move some into the diamond budget if you want to?

And historically that's true. Since a couple years ago they've come into style with marketing efforts and prices for them have definitely gone up. I've heard the term skyrocketed exponentially from 2005 until now. It's still not going to be dirt cheap to buy them now if they're well cut and clean clarity. Ebay is an option but just be careful about them.

Seeing those pretties from links on ebay from DBL... I would honestly just try emailing or calling Diamonds by Lauren and talk to them about what you're looking for or looking at on their website. I have a fantastic 1.9 ct brown from them and they offer discounts for wire transfers. Their settings are fantastic as well and VERY competitively priced so many you can move some $ from the budget from the setting into the diamond if you find a well priced setting.
 
The question is who is going to recut your stone into an OEC? Doesn't matter if it is GOG or someone else, it is not going to be inexpensive. Secondly, if the person doesn't know the right angles to use, you'll end up with a leaky stone or something with splotchy colouring so the savings will be for naught.

Brown diamonds on eBay. Yes, these days the words champagne, cognac and what not are used to help sell the stones and brown FCDs are no longer as inexpensive as they were in the past. Be aware that there are synthetic brown and colour treated brown diamonds in the market. Not only that, most on eBay tend to be highly included and too opaque to be candidates for a recut. In short, the risk you plan to undertake is too great for the benefit you think you'll be gaining.
 
That one looks like it will be completely dark under the table.

I think your budget is unrealistic for what you're looking for, but you're going to have the most luck looking for pre-owned diamonds.
 
diamondseeker2006|1366895107|3434240 said:
That is such a pretty stone! But I cannot recommend an I1 with visible inclusions for an engagement ring. It would make a gorgeous pendant, though!
Click to expand...

Oops! I was rushing this morning and posted without reading carefully...didn't see the I1 Sorry! :oops:
 
If you are expecting 1 carat for $2500, you are not looking at a recut. You are looking at an old stone, which is fine. And just FYI, they would never recut an ideal cut stone. Number one, you wouldn't waste an already ideal cut stone. Second, the angles wouldn't be right to cut an OEC without significant loss. I do not believe you would really be able to choose an appropriate stone for recut because I know that Jonathan has very specific criteria for a diamond that he wants to use for recutting.

But again, all that is irrelevant because only an antique stone is going to fall into your specs and budget. Something like this (and you can remove the diamond from the setting, obviously).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1ct-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-EGL-USA-FILIGREE-ART-DECO-ENGAGEMENT-RING-SOLITAIRE-/151033450192?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item232a4b8ed0
 
DS this is a good diamond I believe you specified champagne not brown. So this is a nice stone for his specs
 
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