Help finding a pink stone

[TorbenBerlin]

Hi all

First of all thanks a lot for a great forum!

This will be my first post. I hope you will able to help me. I have been reading a lot of posts on the forum but I'm still a novice so I apologize on behalf for any stupid questions I might have.

My wife has always wanted an intense colored pink Argyle diamond and finally it looks like I would be able to buy one. I would be able to spend up to USD 40,000.00. I've been doing quite a bit of researching on the internet but it really is a jungle out there. Moreover, I have managed to find a couple of stores that sold pink diamonds...but boy those diamonds were expensive (way more than on the internet)! Even though, I'm willing to spend a somewhat large amount on the pink diamond I would really like to avoid making any bad investment (or perhaps more accurately not throw too much money out of the window).

Do you guys have any good suggestions as for intense (the more the better, deep or vivid) pink Argyle diamond within my price range?

In a perfect world I would like to be able to sell the diamond in say 20 years if my wife gets tired of looking at it and not loosing too much money, perhaps breaking even and buying a new stone (if possible to sell the first stone at all).

It seems like Leibish&Co has some reasonable prices on diamonds (especially compared to the store I have been in) and has gotten some positive comments here. I'm have been looking at following stone. I really like color. http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_d...s would be truly appreciated! /TorbenBerlin

 

[kenny]

Welcome to Pricescope.
It sounds like you've already done some good homework and know what you're getting yourself into and yes B&M stores charge way more than good and reliable internet vendors.
I collect colored diamonds, and love to promote them . . . [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/[/URL]

I bought 20 FCDs from that vendor you mentioned and am very happy with every transaction.
I also have returned 8 and they cheerfully issued refunds or credit towards other stones, whatever I wanted.
They understand color is personal and it's hard to know if you've picked the right FCD till you see it live.
Based on my personal experience I cannot recommend them highly enough.

$40K in Fancy Intense, Vivid or Deep Pink will get you something in the 30 to 60 point range for the nicest color.
Color within the same GIA grade can vary a great deal in strength and attractiveness and the price will reflect this; so price comparisons based on specs is problematic.
Some graded Fancy Intense Pink will have just a touch of brown, but not enough for GIA to grade them Brownish Pink, but the price will be lower than those that have a touch of purple or orange in them.
Since pinks are so rare even Leibish with their huge inventory will have just a few in your color/price range, so you have to remain flexible on shape and the other specs unless you are very very patient.
You can click on Pink diamonds and 9 pages of pinks come up. http://www.fancydiamonds.net/pink_diamonds

Then sort by price by clicking on DIAMOND PRICE at the top:
Your price range starts near the bottom of page 7.

I see the Fancy Intense Pink oval you mentioned above is now on reserve. http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/10257.htm

Did you reserve it?
That's pink has a lot going for it, and the one I would pick in your price range.
Though graded Fancy Intense the color looks near-Vivid and the cutting looks good, though there is that bowtie that's often seen in ovals and pears.
Keep in mind FCDs are cut to strengthen the color not to optimize light performance as in a few of the white diamonds destine for the knowledgeable market.
It is nice it has the full GIA report (not the abbreviated one) that also grades clarity, polish, symmetry, fluorescence, inclusion plots and proportions.
It also has that highly coveted girdle laser inscription from Argyle, which generally only the "better" Argyle stones get.
Inclusions are listed in order of significance so I'm glad feather was not mentioned first, since those may be durability considerations.
I'm pretty sure it will be eye clean based on the pics, the size and the inclusion plots.

 

[TorbenBerlin]

Thanks a lot for your thorough reply, Kenny! I appreciate it!

Those are some really great looking diamonds you have collected! Im glad to hear that you have been happy with every transaction with the vendor.

Actually, my brother is visiting some relatives in Tel Aviv, Israel, so I have asked him to make sure that the diamond is reserved as he will be stopping by the vendor. Ideally, I would have loved to come with him but unfortunately that is not an option due to work. However, he has great taste so I trust him if he decides that it looks great live as well. But it is nice to know that I still have the opportunity of returning the stone if it is not to my liking.

I've noticed that bowtie you mention. That is only thing about the diamond that I'm not too happy about but I guess I have to see it live.

I have been going through their website and I can't really find that many intense, deep or vivid pink diamonds. I don't know how often such new items come in store. Consequently, I have been thinking about waiting until they have more pink stones to choose from but I don't know if that is ever going to happen with the Argyle mine coming out with less intensely colored pink stones. However, I have been looking at the following diamond a couple of times. http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/4100.htm

I like that color as well and it is actually graded as vivid. But I'm not so sure about the cut. Moreover, it is about USD 14,000.00 more than the oval my brother has reserved.

 

[kenny]

Thanks.
I have noticed that really choice FCDs sell fast, often within hours of being listed on the Leibish site.
In fact the oval you have on reserve was listed just a few days ago.
I check their listing of new items every morning ... http://www.fancydiamonds.net/new_diamonds
Also if you tell them your specs they can be on the lookout and notify you before something gets listed.

It is nice your brother can visit them; I'm jealous.
They may have some new pinks that have not gone up on the site yet or perhaps can bring some in for your brother to view.

Also, I heard Leibish won several 2012 Argyle Tender Auction stones including some blues.
Even though they will be astronomically expensive if I was visiting them I'd ask to see them if they have arrived, a real once in a lifetime opportunity.

That radiant you mentioned has nice even color and of course the GIA Fancy Vivid grade really bumps up the price; it's one point lighter but $14,000 more.
It also has not only the Argyle laser inscription but also "earned" a certificate from Arglye.
This puts it higher on what I call the Argyle Pink diamond food chain (outranked only by Tender stones), increases the price, and "may" make it a more desirable stone to sell in 20 years.
(I avoid using the I-word, investment.)

Here are the two diamonds side by side.
Inexplicably, the Fancy Intense oval seems to have stronger color than the Fancy Vivid radiant.



It could be the photography, though my experience has indicated Leibish has very accurate photography, or something else about the grading I'm not aware of, maybe that desireable bubble gum hue, but the Oval seems like much more colored diamond per dollar.

 

[minousbijoux]

Kenny, do you think that it might be a case of the tone of the stone, with the oval being a slightly darker stone which makes it appear more intense in color? I know little about FCDs, but am always curious...

 

[chrono]

I wonder if it is the tone too because the oval is darker than the radiant.

 

[kenny]

I'm certainly not a GIA grader, but yes this may be a good example of how tone influences perception of color.
FWIW, notice that the tone is the vertical axis of GIA's Colored Diamond Scale, and both Intense and Vivid stop at the same tone before they cross over into Fancy Deep.

I suspect the oval's tone is right next to the border with Fancy Deep but the radiant is at the opposite end (lightest end) of Vivid's tonal range.

And yes, darker tone can seem like stronger color.
Good point.

It has always been hard for me to push my brain into separating tone from saturation of hue.

 

[Pilot172]

I own two Argyle pink diamonds. I would suggest you buy an Argyle pink or purplish pink intense over .5 ct. Also vs clarity is much rarer.

Earlier this year, I purchased an Argyle pink intense, radiant, .60 ct., vs2 from Leiblish for less than $50k USD. I am happy with the diamond and Leiblish.

 

[kenny]

I own two Argyle pink diamonds. I would suggest you buy an Argyle pink or purplish pink intense over .5 ct. Also vs clarity is much rarer.

Why do you recommend over half carat?
Fancy Intense, Vivid or Deep Pinks in the most in-demand hues over half carat will cost more than 40K.

Is it your feeling that long term appreciation of a pink over half carat with a less-desirable hue will be better than one under half carat of the most-desireable hue?
Nobody can foresee the future, but you may be right.
Or is it the importance of the appearance of a larger stone?

I can only speak for myself but to me color is king, not weight and I realize I may be in the minority.
I think of weight being more important with white diamonds since they are so much more plentiful and affordable.
Sure, I'd LOVE to have Red Green and Blue honkers, but I think people who know FCDs don't expect size.

If the highest weight for an Intense color grade is your priority then this 0.71 Fancy Intense Pink pear with an abbreviated GIA report and no Argyle laser inscription may be a good choice.
IMHO I see a blush of brown, which may explain the relatively low price per carat for a Fancy Intense Pink.
Nothing wrong with pinks with a brownish influence, if that is your aesthetic preference, or you feel the larger size makes a little brown worth it.
Again, there was not enough brown for GIA to grade it Fancy Intense Brownish Pink.

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/9025.htm

 

[Pilot172]

Hey Kenny,

I agree colour is always king. Argyle diamonds being mined today are smaller and lower clarity than in the past. Finding Argyle's over half a carat are getting difficult. I believe you could still get an Arglye intense over .5 ct for $40k.

 

[minousbijoux]

But to follow up on Kenny's point, just because you can doesn't explain why you'd want to - what is your reasoning for recommending this approach?

 

[kenny]

Hey Kenny,

I agree colour is always king. Argyle diamonds being mined today are smaller and lower clarity than in the past. Finding Argyle's over half a carat are getting difficult. I believe you could still get an Arglye intense over .5 ct for $40k.

I agree completely, and it will be a less-desirable hue/saturation/tone of GIA's Fancy Intense grade.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

But to me color is king, and not all GIA Fancy Intense Pinks are equally desirable.

 

[pinkjewel]

I think the radiant cut diamond is a "prettier" color pink than the oval and would be the one I would choose. The oval does look deeper, but the radiant is a gorgeous color of pink and, to me, that is the most important consideration. The bow tie in the oval would bother me,too.

Like Kenny said, I would call them and give specs in case they have more than what is already on their website. I have noticed less and less pinks have been coming up lately. (I also check their website daily ) I'm wondering if they are being snatched before they are even on the web by people who have contacted them-or if just fewer are coming available.

 

[Pilot172]

If you have a budget of $40,000 for an investment grade Argyle diamond, you will have to make sacerfices. Everyone has to make their own choices. I agree vivids are amazing but size and clarity are important to the rarity of the diamond. In the 2011 tender, there was one VS2 or better for every 10 SI or lower.

Below is copied from Rarecoloreddiamonds.com
Carat weight is another important factor in determining how rare a diamond is. Basically, the larger the diamond, the more rare it is. In Argyle Pink Diamonds, carat weight is extremely important because a vast majority of these diamonds are under .25cts. Anything over .30cts would be considerably more rare, and anything over .40cts is way more rare. We have been told to literally hoard Argyle Pink Diamonds that are over .50cts as they are extremely difficult to get and once it gets past that carat weight, the prices start to shoot up heavily. If you ever get the opportunity to own a pink diamond over one carat, you will have a diamond that most people will never get a chance to obtain.

 

[gregchang35]

Welcome to Pricescope.
It sounds like you've already done some good homework and know what you're getting yourself into and yes B&M stores charge way more than good and reliable internet vendors.
I collect colored diamonds, and love to promote them . . . [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/[/URL]

I bought 20 FCDs from that vendor you mentioned and am very happy with every transaction.
I also have returned 8 and they cheerfully issued refunds or credit towards other stones, whatever I wanted.
They understand color is personal and it's hard to know if you've picked the right FCD till you see it live.
Based on my personal experience I cannot recommend them highly enough.

$40K in Fancy Intense, Vivid or Deep Pink will get you something in the 30 to 60 point range for the nicest color.
Color within the same GIA grade can vary a great deal in strength and attractiveness and the price will reflect this; so price comparisons based on specs is problematic.
Some graded Fancy Intense Pink will have just a touch of brown, but not enough for GIA to grade them Brownish Pink, but the price will be lower than those that have a touch of purple or orange in them.
Since pinks are so rare even Leibish with their huge inventory will have just a few in your color/price range, so you have to remain flexible on shape and the other specs unless you are very very patient.
You can click on Pink diamonds and 9 pages of pinks come up. http://www.fancydiamonds.net/pink_diamonds

Then sort by price by clicking on DIAMOND PRICE at the top:
Your price range starts near the bottom of page 7.

I see the Fancy Intense Pink oval you mentioned above is now on reserve. http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/10257.htm

Did you reserve it?
That's pink has a lot going for it, and the one I would pick in your price range.
Though graded Fancy Intense the color looks near-Vivid and the cutting looks good, though there is that bowtie that's often seen in ovals and pears.
Keep in mind FCDs are cut to strengthen the color not to optimize light performance as in a few of the white diamonds destine for the knowledgeable market.
It is nice it has the full GIA report (not the abbreviated one) that also grades clarity, polish, symmetry, fluorescence, inclusion plots and proportions.
It also has that highly coveted girdle laser inscription from Argyle, which generally only the "better" Argyle stones get.
Inclusions are listed in order of significance so I'm glad feather was not mentioned first, since those may be durability considerations.
I'm pretty sure it will be eye clean based on the pics, the size and the inclusion plots.

I love your collection! i can never tire of looking at them.....I am SLOWLY building on my collection....first are the colourless/ white diamonds as jewellry and then loose stones....

 

[kee07]

Hi TorbenBerlin,

What a funny discussion here...
I love pink diamonds and I own a few, I'm happy to share my opinion.

You can read this page about color intensity
http://www.fancydiamonds.net/diamond_education/4cs/color/defining_the_intensity_of_the_diamond.htm
As you can see, even with the same grading on GIA, the color can look quite different.

The oval seems to be a better buy because its has a higher saturation in the GIA "intense" grade,
while the radiant cut one seems to have a lower saturation in the "vivid" grade.
With the significant price difference, I would go for the oval one.

If you want to go for vivid, reserve your money until you see something like this
http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/2736.htm
this is the best vivid pink I've seen, with this size and brilliant color, costed more than $90000

It's nice that your brother has already reserved that stone for you.
You can simply get the stone and see the color in person and show to your wife, to see if this is the one she want.
Color preference is very personal.
Leibish is very good in service and they've tried to satisfied customers' wish.
I have once returned back some of the stones, I paid for the little shipment fee but I think that's fair.

Hope you find the stone you want soon.

 

[TorbenBerlin]

Wauw, that is one beautiful diamond, kee07!

But the price tag that comes with that color is really insane and unfortunately quite a bit above my budget. I should probably realize that I can't afford the kind of color I like the most. At least not anywhere above 0.3 ct.

I must admit that to me (and my wife) color is essential. If I should look at 0.5 ct. and VS clarity as well I wouldn't be able to afford it. Consequently, I would probably have to look at smaller pink diamonds with SI clarity - and buy a loupe for my wife if she can't see the diamond. Or maybe I should reserve my money and wait until something like the USD 90,000 pink diamond comes up!

I like the color of the radiant one from the vendor but I think it lacks a bit saturation which the oval one the other hand has. However, I'm not so sure about the bow tie the oval one has and it seems kind of reddish. Actually, I was thinking what a lot of you guys mentioned - the oval one seems to have a stronger color compared to the radiant one even though the radiant one is graded vivid. I agree that this is probably due to the darker tone, close to deep.

I can't wait for my brother to stop by the vendor! I hope he finds something he likes as well. I'll tell him to ask about the tender stones.

 

[chrono]

Being that the FCDs are actually very small in person, I wonder if the bowtie is less apparent IRL. I also find that sometimes, it is this very same bowtie that lights up when the stone is in motion. For me, I wouldn't mind my stone looking reddish (like the very rare red FCD) but if you want pink, then you should get something that looks pink.