Help finding Center Stone

[julchak]

Hi everyone,

Some of you may have seen posts on my e-ring journey here. I've finally narrowed down the setting (well, 2 options, both essentially the same), and want help sourcing the best diamond I can for under $4,500.

The setting is the following C. Gonshor, it will be in 14k Rose Gold with VS J/K melees going halfway (not 3/4 as shown):



I've gone ahead and edited the photo to show it in Rose Gold:


For the center stone these have been the specifications which I've been using (the proportions I've been using from Beyond4Cs here):

• Round Stone
• GIA or AGS
• Carat: 0.9+
• Cut: Excellent/Ideal
• Clarity: VS2+ (haven't seen any good SI1's and have stopped including them in searches)
• Color: K+ (figure the rose gold will absorb the warmth)
• Fluorescence: Medium - None (though Rare Carat said I could look at Strong fluorescence as it will brighten a K color in my rose gold?)
• Table %: 54 - 57
• Depth %: 61 - 62.5
• Crown Angle: 34 - 35
• Pavilion Angle: 40.6 - 41
• Lower Girdles: 75% - 80% (although I sometimes don't see this spec available in a search)
• Star Facets: 50% - 55%
• Girdle Thickness: T-M-ST

Vendors I've looked at so far are:

• WhiteFlash (found a couple options)
• Brian Gavin (haven't seen anything here)
• James Allen (I've found some options here which are far less expensive than WF, seem to fall within a lot of my specs above but at a much lower price which is sort of concerning)
• Rare Carat (similar to James Allen except some even better prices which seems too good to be true)
• Diamond's Direct (this is where I'm getting the setting, the salesman has sent a number of diamonds but their pricing and quality don't seem to match up, even though he refers to all the others like WF and James Allen as "internet diamonds" as though they are inferior...)

Any recommendations for either my search criteria, places I'm looking, how it might look in the setting, or just some diamond recommendations?


Regards,

Jeff

 

[DejaWiz]

julchak, that setting looks awesome!
I think sticking with a seller that has an upgrade program with no constraints is going to be your best bet.
Victor Canera is another that I would recommend you see what is available.

Diamond | 0.913 ct J VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4452323

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.913 carat J color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4452323

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.004 ct K VS1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4432217

This fabulous 1.004 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of K.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4432217

www.whiteflash.com

 

[lovedogs]

Glad you found a setting that works! I think the reason there is confusion about pricing is that you aren't comparing "apples to apples" among these vendors.

I'm going to comment on each vendor you mention, below.

• WhiteFlash is known for being one of the few vendors with "super ideal" diamonds which are cut to exacting standards. Anything in their "Expert Selection" or "A cut above" line is going to be great. Many of their "preferred selection" stones are also excellent, but just double check the advanced images and make sure. All of their stones that are "in house" (ES, ACA, PS) have a lifetime $1 upgrade policy (just spend $1 more than you originally spent and you can upgrade and simply pay the difference). Their customer service with diamonds is incredible (the best of all options you have here, though some might think BG is on par).
• Brian Gavin also has "super ideal" cut diamonds like WF, but their upgrade policies are slightly more restrictive. Not going to comment further because you said you haven't found anything from them, so it's a non issue.
• James Allen You will pay less with JA because you won't get anywhere near the customer service or guarantee of an amazing diamond that you would with WF or BG. Also their upgrade policy is super restrictive (I think it's somthing like "spend 50% more, but you'd have to recheck). There are no advanced images except for on 'true hearts' stones, so you have to be good at judging stones by video alone, which is tricky. Most folks who buy from them find contenders and put them on hold for PS folks to judge to make sure they are getting a great stone. If WF is in your budget, I'd choose them over JA.
• Rare Carat. They aren't a vendor, they are a service that aggregates stones from multiple other vendors. None of those vendors have their stones "in house" (basically all vendors on RC are like JA rather than BG or WF). The vendors aren't "shady" or "bad', but again you'll need to judge entirely by video, which can take a lot of practice.
• Diamond's Direct. The sales person wants to scare you away from online sites because he or she knows that brick-and-mortar stores typically can't compete with online inventory. Ignore them because they are lying to you about "online diamonds".

 

[DejaWiz]

Minor correction, lovedogs: WF is a $0 trade-in program.

Lifetime Upgrade Guarantee | Whiteflash

A great upgrade policy is a big deal when buying a diamond. Whiteflash has the best benefits in the business including a 100% Lifetime Upgrade Guarantee.

www.whiteflash.com

 

[lovedogs]

Minor correction, @lovedogs : WF is a $0 trade-in program.

Lifetime Upgrade Guarantee | Whiteflash

A great upgrade policy is a big deal when buying a diamond. Whiteflash has the best benefits in the business including a 100% Lifetime Upgrade Guarantee.

www.whiteflash.com

ooooh, I didn't know you could trade for a stone of the exact same price lol. Well, then it's even better than I knew!

 

[crbl999]

julchak, that setting looks awesome!
I think sticking with a seller that has an upgrade program with no constraints is going to be your best bet.
Victor Canera is another that I would recommend you see what is available.

Diamond | 0.913 ct J VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4452323

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.913 carat J color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4452323

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.004 ct K VS1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4432217

This fabulous 1.004 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of K.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4432217

www.whiteflash.com

I like the 1.004 with medium blue fluor. I would ask why it is an ES stone.

 

[susiegrneyes]

Do you think you'd ever upgrade? If not, then I'd consider Blue Nile or James Allen. I made purchases from both a number of times. I have only returned items to Blue Nile and it was totally painless.

 

[DejaWiz]

I like the 1.004 with medium blue fluor. I would ask why it is an ES stone.

Fluorescence requirements. Everything else seems to meet the ACA criteria.

A CUT ABOVE® Diamonds Specifications and Qualifications

Uncover the diamond specifications and qualifications that make up the Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® diamonds. The most carefully crafted diamonds in the world.

www.whiteflash.com

 

[julchak]

I saw that 1.004 from WF and liked it, the fluorescence will work with the K color in my rose gold I think. Honestly, she keeps saying she wants to hold onto it forever and can't even dream of upgrading, who knows if that would change. I'd get from WF for the known quality though.

There was this from rare carat that seems unreal. Any thoughts? https://www.rarecarat.com/diamond/9...ound-diamond?ref=back&ts=Search&cp=1&ndp=3925

And this from JA (cert attached)

Choose Your Engagement Ring Setting | JamesAllen.com | Page 12

Pick the perfect setting to start designing your dream engagement ring. Explore our large collection of engagement rings to find your ideal fit. | Page 12

www.jamesallen.com

Also this one

1.02 Carat round diamond

This 1.02 carat round diamond K color if clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[lovedogs]

The first link to JA is just all of the settings. I don't see a link to the 1.05K.

 

[DejaWiz]

I saw that 1.004 from WF and liked it, the fluorescence will work with the K color in my rose gold I think. Honestly, she keeps saying she wants to hold onto it forever and can't even dream of upgrading, who knows if that would change. I'd get from WF for the known quality though.

There was this from rare carat that seems unreal. Any thoughts? https://www.rarecarat.com/diamond/9...ound-diamond?ref=back&ts=Search&cp=1&ndp=3925

And this from JA (cert attached)

Choose Your Engagement Ring Setting | JamesAllen.com | Page 12

Pick the perfect setting to start designing your dream engagement ring. Explore our large collection of engagement rings to find your ideal fit. | Page 12

www.jamesallen.com

Also this one

1.02 Carat round diamond

This 1.02 carat round diamond K color if clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

First JA link takes me to settings.
Is it this one?
(I'm assuming because of the 80% lowers resulting in the thinner arrows)

1.05 Carat round diamond

This 1.05 carat round diamond K color vvs1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

Have you both considered an LGD?
At this price point, it puts you easily in 1.66+ carat D-E colorless VS2+ diamond territory.

 

[Kim N]

I normally would vote WF all the way, especially the 1.004 that DejaWiz posted, but I think this one from James Allen is beautiful, and you can use the savings towards a wedding band.

1.11 Carat round diamond

This 1.11 carat round diamond K color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[julchak]

The first link to JA is just all of the settings. I don't see a link to the 1.05K.

Oops, try this. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vvs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-12518426

It was the one you linked. What should the lowers be to get the best proportions? I've been using 75-80% for this metric in my searches.

As for a lab created, we've talked about it and want to stick to a natural.

As for size, she doesn't want a huge stone and has said she'd be fine with a 0.7 or 0.8ct...i want to get the 1ct as I think it'll look better than the smaller stone.

I normally would vote WF all the way, especially the 1.004 that DejaWiz posted, but I think this one from James Allen is beautiful, and you can use the savings towards a wedding band.

1.11 Carat round diamond

This 1.11 carat round diamond K color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

Wow, very nice price and good looking diamond.

 

[DejaWiz]

I'd recommend that you strongly consider the WF K VS1 because it is a Hearts & Arrows diamond and all the information about symmetry precision and optical performance is provided and verified by means of ASET and Ideal-Scope. It's been vetted by human eyes and hands of a company that has an extremely strict QA process (part of their ISO 9000 series certification) and a strong reputation in the industry.
You can reach out and request to put it on hold/reserve then ask about the fluorescence while you are weighing your options.

 

[julchak]

I'd recommend that you strongly consider the WF K VS1 because it is a Hearts & Arrows diamond and all the information about symmetry precision and optical performance is provided and verified by means of ASET and Ideal-Scope. It's been vetted by human eyes and hands of a company that has an extremely strict QA process (part of their ISO 9000 series certification) and a strong reputation in the industry.
You can reach out and request to put it on hold/reserve then ask about the fluorescence while you are weighing your options.

I agree, I do really like that one and love knowing the quality is there and that I'm buying from the best, no questions on how good it'll be. Going to see about holding it.

Now I'm just in the predicament of the setting. I'll save that for a new thread as to not get off topic here.

 

[newdiamondworld]

Have you ever seen a K color stone IRL? Rose gold will not absorb the warmth. K color looks brown, are you sure that’s what your fiancé wants? If you are not sure, I’d go with a higher color… even If it means going smaller

I would not go below an H for an engagement ring stone if you haven’t seen J/K stones in person…. or unless you know for sure your fiancé likes really warm stones

 

[DejaWiz]

Have you ever seen a K color stone IRL? Rose gold will not absorb the warmth. K color looks brown, are you sure that’s what your fiancé wants? If you are not sure, I’d go with a higher color… even If it means going smaller

I would not go below an H for an engagement ring stone if you haven’t seen J/K stones in person unless you know for sure your fiancé likes really warm stones

One reason why I am urging to buy from WF in this case: great benefits, with their customer-centric upgrade/exchange/return policy being at the forefront.

 

[newdiamondworld]

You also seem to be going a bit backwards about it… you started with the setting. I would start with the diamond. Get the best diamond you can afford in a simpler setting and then upgrade the setting.

if you start with a complicated setting and compromise on your diamond you might regret it later

agree with @DejaWiz re Whiteflash 100%

 

[julchak]

Have you ever seen a K color stone IRL? Rose gold will not absorb the warmth. K color looks brown, are you sure that’s what your fiancé wants? If you are not sure, I’d go with a higher color… even If it means going smaller

I would not go below an H for an engagement ring stone if you haven’t seen J/K stones in person…. or unless you know for sure your fiancé likes really warm stones

I have not been able to in person, only online.

The idea of going with K with a rose gold setting came from a number of various articles where they show comparison photos of K vs other more colorless diamonds in rose gold:

• https://yourdiamondteacher.com/diamond-4cs/color/best-diamond-color-for-rose-gold-rings/
• https://www.diamonds.pro/education/k-color-diamonds/
• https://www.stonealgo.com/blog/what-to-know-about-k-color-diamonds/

From my understanding the diamond naturally picks up light reflected from the setting. When I've seen platinum rings it is hard to tell what is a diamond and what is just a micro-prong or something else because it all glistens. The diamonds in those settings are reflecting the white from the platinum or white gold. From at least my online (not first hand) research it seems like where she wants a rose gold setting, I should be able to pretty easily get by with a K color stone and have it not really be noticeable; and if I can get this VS1 1.004 from WF with Hearts and Arrows, then the brilliance and sparkle should outweigh anything that could be noticeable with the slightly darker stone.

I literally am only going by online research on this...the stores have very few rose gold settings so it's not really easy to get to see one in a K vs an I or J first hand....though I'd think that from the various images articles like I've linked above show, those SHOULD give me a decent idea?

Does anyone else have concern on K with Rose gold?

 

[julchak]

You also seem to be going a bit backwards about it… you started with the setting. I would start with the diamond. Get the best diamond you can afford in a simpler setting and then upgrade the setting.

if you start with a complicated setting and compromise on your diamond you might regret it later

agree with @DejaWiz re Whiteflash 100%

I understand that a good number of people (especially here on Pricescope) tend to do the diamond and then the setting....and a surprisingly good amount of people like to swap and upgrade down the road. I've talked about this a good deal with my girlfriend - she is more old fashioned and of the mindset that what I am giving her is so special that she would never want to change any bit of it. She also isn't as concerned with a huge stone. We went around a bunch, I've looked at countless settings, and they are all very special and unique, that is why when we found one that really spoke to her...well I've had to go with that one or one similar to it.

It has made sense for me to pick out the special setting which she loves (and does not plan on ever changing/upgrading), and once I've tackled that, see what i have left in my budget and get the best stone I can. If I am getting a 1 ct WF expert selection+ stone then I don't feel like I'm compromising seeing as how she has said she doesn't want anything much bigger than 0.8ct, and this stone should look really nice.

Now, I am trying to figure out if I go with the setting from the original designer she has seen from Diamond's Direct (brick and mortar, far away from me; I'm in MA they are in VA), who the designer recommended I go to for the best price and customization from her. Or if I go with A. Jaffe who has worked up a custom version of one of their rings to look similar to this setting, letting me purchase everything through WF, but that's just another decision.

 

[newdiamondworld]

There are hundreds of threads here where OPs go with lower color stones and then exchange them because they are too tinted.
Rose gold is not magic it will not change the color of the stone magically. The color of the stone will remain brown/brownish.
If you haven’t seen it in person I would stay away from it. Even an H is tinted for some people.

A well cut stone will be bright and sparkly, but you will still be able to see its color

 

[Gone_]

There are hundreds of threads here where OPs go with lower color stones and then exchange them because they are too tinted.
Rose gold is not magic it will not change the color of the stone magically. The color of the stone will remain brown/brownish.
If you haven’t seen it in person I would stay away from it. Even an H is tinted for some people.

A well cut stone will be bright and sparkly, but you will still be able to see its color

ACAs don't hide colors. They are brighter and sparklier stones, but colors don't change, I agree.

 

[julchak]

There are hundreds of threads here where OPs go with lower color stones and then exchange them because they are too tinted.
Rose gold is not magic it will not change the color of the stone magically. The color of the stone will remain brown/brownish.
If you haven’t seen it in person I would stay away from it. Even an H is tinted for some people.

A well cut stone will be bright and sparkly, but you will still be able to see its color

Maybe I can try to go into a store and see if they have a K vs and I against some rose gold.

I'm sure looking at the stone alone, yes you can see the brownish hue if you look at it from the side. But when it's living in a setting and surrounded by rose gold and constantly reflecting the rose color through the stone...I assume you'd have to work to find angles which show the brownish coloration. I don't think even my going into a store and seeing a K vs a D would help show what it means when it is in the setting itself?

 

[mrsctobe]

They have a 30 day return policy so I reco just getting it to see it in person. I have an I color and it looks totally white to me. Some are more color sensitive than others.

 

[DejaWiz]

Does anyone else have concern on K with Rose gold?

For *my* eyes: Yes.
For you: Unknown, at this point in your adventure. The only way to know is to see one in a variety of lighting conditions.

Every person has individual levels of color sensitivity and color tolerance.
For example: My wife and I are both fairly sensitive to color, but she is slightly less tolerant of tint than I am.
That being said, there are some absolutely amazing faint color diamonds posted all over PS that are very pleasing to my eyes.

The brilliance and sparkle videos of the WF K VS1 shows that this diamond with ideal proportions, angles, and optical performance appears to be reflecting gobs and gobs of white light...and it may be reassuring to you to know that it's much more so than about 60% of run of the mill GIA 3X diamonds that don't have ideal proportions and optics, which is why it may be a challenge to try and make a fair comparison at local shops, unless one of them specifically has a K-L color AGS000 similar to the WF diamond (a GIA diamond would be OK to view, as long as it has similar proportions and angles with verified light return and performance via ASET/IS).
Is a faint color a sure thing for your eyes? No, certainly not. If you and your intended are not happy with the color/tint, then WF will give you every penny back within 30 days or allow you to trade/exchange for equal or higher value for any other diamond in their inventory for life.
Either way, your purchase is protected.

A Guide to K Color Diamonds and Where to Buy Them

What about K color diamonds? Falling just one grade short of the ‘near colorless’ category, it can be easy to dismiss these diamonds, but should you?

www.whiteflash.com

 

[julchak]

So say I want to avoid the potential brownish tint dilemma. I move color to an I or J?

I found this one from WF which goes over my planned budget, but I could make it work...

Diamond | 0.945 ct J VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4454699

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.945 carat J color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4454699

www.whiteflash.com

 

[Gone_]

There isn't much of a difference between J and K. I would go with an I to be on the safe side

 

[Kim N]

How about this one, which is under budget?

Diamond | 0.838 ct I VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4451149

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.838 carat I color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4451149

www.whiteflash.com

 

[DejaWiz]

So say I want to avoid the potential brownish tint dilemma. I move color to an I or J?

I found this one from WF which goes over my planned budget, but I could make it work...

Diamond | 0.945 ct J VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4454699

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.945 carat J color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4454699

www.whiteflash.com

Made a comparison using screenshots of the brilliance videos on WF's website...the face-up shots are usually the more important ones.
My personal standpoint: the K VS1 represents the better value since it gets to the magic one carat mark and can be easily returned/exchanged if the color tint is too much for your eyes. The optics of all three of these are off the charts!

Here are some side profile shots of this 0.945 J (top), the 1.004 K (middle), and a randomly selected G color (bottom):









Here are the face-up shots, same order: J top, K middle, G bottom:

 

[lovedogs]

OP: I would call WF and have them pull a few I/J/K options in your budget and take IRL pics for you. Your eyes are the decider here.

FWIW I don't agree with the assertion that all K colored stones are "brown". For some folks, they are slightly tinted (which isn't a problem, esp in rose gold). For others, however, K is much too tinted and it bugs them. So you need to see for yourself.