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Help...I think I have been taken!

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Question...to get a feel for what dimensions to expect when i go to see this diamond, I went to bluenile to look at a bunch of GIA excellent cut grade diamond reports to see the dimensions. I was happy to see that most followed the following criteria (as stated above) so hopefully the diamond I look at tommorrow will follow the trend:

Table: 54-57
Total Depth: 60-62
Crown Angle: 34-35
Pavilion Anlge: 40.6-41
Girdle: Thin,Med,SL THK
Polish/Sym: Excellent/Excellent

However, a few of the diamonds I saw had some of the dimensions slightly off (up to 0.5 out of the range stated above) which seemed acceptable to me? But one had a table of 59? That seems too large, no?
 
I''d never say a diamond with a 59% table can''t be beautiful, because it can. But if you want to aim for ideal cut, you may want to stay under 58%. You have the great advantage to being able to see the stone, and you can even ask to compare it to some that are less well cut to see what you think. Please let us know how it turns out!
 
Date: 1/8/2007 12:48:42 PM
Author: JulieN
NO, do not walk away. do you like the diamond? that's the most important thing.

the range you have is super narrow (or too broad?) are you really gonna reject a stone with 57.5 table vs a 57, which is rounded to 58 on GIA? Plenty of stones with upper 33s and 41 that are fine.

And I don't even know why you included 41.5 PA if you are only considering crown angle>=34. You'd probably want a crown angle around 31-32 for that.

Or a 40 PA? I think you need to check those numbers again... With a 34-35 CA, you could prob do fine depending on preferences between 40.6-41.2 PA.
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Drm

As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

Of course all this is by the numbers. We will not have the chance to see the diamond; you will. Be sure to view it in several lighting conditions - not just under spotlights.
 
Thanks for explaining the correspondence of the crown and pavilion numbers, John! I copied the ACA numbers off your old site, and those are the numbers I always try to give people who are looking for ideal!
 
what is a good price for this diamond assuming it falls within the dimensions stated above? he quoted me $5000 plus "free" 14k white gold tiffany band. I figured the band is worth at least $200 so I am getting the diamond for maybe $4800? i think i can talk him down
 
UPDATE:

Okay...this is what I got...I hope I did alright...

GIA Certified 11/17/06
Shape and Cutting Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.12-6.14 x 3.82
Carat Weight: 0.89 Carat
Color Grade: E
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Finish-Polish/Symmetry: Excellent/Excellent
Fluoresence: None
Comments: Additional Clouds Not Shown

Table: 56%
Total Depth: 62.3%
Crown Angle: 35 deg
Pavilion Angle: 40.6 deg
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavilion Height: 43%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half Length: 75%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick (Faceted)
Cutlet: None

The diamond is eye clean to me, but what do I know...ha! Based on the GIA report it looked very clean in the diagram. Per the GIA report there is one small crystal inclusion left side of table and there is a slight cloud on the right side of table. I looked at it with and without the loupe and I couldn't see the crystal or clouding.

As for the price...I was able to haggle him down to $4800 including 14k whitegold Tiffany setting with Platinum head. In addition, the diamond is not laser inscribed with the GIA number...so I am having him send it back to GIA to get it laser inscribed free of charge. Laser inscription is a good thing, right?

How did I do?
 
Sounds like you did just fine! I get .9 on the HCA with the X falling in both the GIA Ex and AGS0 boxes! I think the price is not bad at all for a regular jewelry store.

A laser inscription is fine, not necessary, but nice to have when leaving a ring for repair, etc.

Please come back and show us your ring! Congratulations!
 
Thanks! The diamond business is pretty tricky!

What is HCA anyways?
 
The lower the number the better?
 
Date: 1/9/2007 9:10:11 PM
Author: drm31078
The lower the number the better?
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no.
extemes in anything are not really good. around 1.0 is a nice middle ground.
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Should I be concerned.....

So when I saw the diamond yesterday the jeweler only had a photo copy of the GIA cert (I checked the number on the GIA database and it was legit). He said if I decided to purchase the diamond he would get me the original cert from the "wholesaler" he had to get it from but it would take 2 weeks. But then I said I wanted it laser inscribed. He said he would send it back to GIA to have it laser inscribed. Then I asked him how long before I could pick it up, and he said 1.5 weeks...so this seemed fishy that I couldn't get the original for 2 weeks, yet he could get it laser inscribed in 1.5 weeks.

I call GIA today, they say they need the original cert to laser inscribe the diamond and then once they verify the diamond it would be incscribed and a new cert would be made indicating the laser inscription number. They said it normally takes around 3 weeks. So this is inconsistent with the time frame the jeweler said. So I try to get a hold of him today and it is his day off. I spoke to another jeweler who said not to listen to GIA, they have some pull with them because they do so much business (apparently they have other affiliates in NYC). He said it would be sooner than 3 weeks. He at least confirmed with me the process that GIA told me.

So...I am not sure what to think....I mean as long as I get the GIA cert that says "laser inscribed with a number" that matches the laser incription on the diamond I should be getting what I paid for, right? Maybe he just has his time line messed up? I am giving him the benefit of the doubt until I talk to him tommorrow. Honestly this is a pretty reputable company in Charlotte, NC...I had 5 independent people recommend them to me...maybe I am just being paranoid. Here is their website...

http://www.ddusainc.com/
 
From what I understand, laser inscriptions can be scratched off very easily. So if it''s a concern that someone might steal your stone, it might not make a difference.

My personal feelings are that if you have any doubt at all, don''t go through with it. But ask if that doubt is reasonable.
 
I just want the diamond shown on the cert...and I want the cert to show the inscription on the diamond...is it common for jewlers to have someone else inscribe the diamond?
 
Inscription: If you're simply concerned about the diamond matching its GIA document there are other options.

1. The SI1's clarity characteristics are a distinctive fingerprint, plotted on the GIA report. Your jeweler can use a microscope in your presence and identify them for you.

2. Another route is to have an independent appraiser verify that it's the correct stone with the GIA report in-hand. This will be less time-consuming and costly than GIA inscribing and re-issuing a document. It could be a win-win for you and your jeweler: Tell him you'll choose an appraiser. Decide on a budget and he can reimburse you, or take that amount off the stone's price instead of sending it back to the GIA.

Option #2 also provides a neat experience; sitting in with appraiser during the verification. Be sure it's a reputable independent appraiser (someone who does not sell diamonds/jewelry). If this is what you decide to do, agree on the time frame allowed before the sale is closed with your jeweler.

Disregard the above if you just really want that inscription. In this case, absolutely send it back to the lab for inscription and updated report: The document should always match the diamond.
 
Don''t panic. This is not the hope diamond. Why would he go to the trouble of bringing in a really nice diamond for you only to do something completely unethical and illegal? If he was going to do that, the diamond wouldn''t match the cert anyway; right? I mean dirty is dirty. This guy is probably just like a lot of jewelers. He''s trying to make a living selling what a customer wants and making a profit. He is probably right about the time frame because GIA may have high estimated you so that you wouldn''t worry if it was a little over two weeks.

Take deep breaths and get done what you need to have done for your piece of mind. The price seems reasonable for a B&M store, and being able to have a relationship with a jeweler is a definite benefit of going local. Besides, it can be hard for a jeweler to trust too. Just knowing that one mistake no matter how innocent can cost them their business would make anyone paranoid.
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It takes time to build trust with a jeweler and vice versa.

shay
 
Thanks everyone...

Time isn''t really an issue for me, I will wait as long as it takes to get the job done right...but I like the idea of an appraiser, on top of the inscription ;). I just want to be sure GIA does the inscription and I get the new report, not some third party person doing the inscription. Do jewlers have report numbers inscribed by a third party? Is that illegal? If someone else does the inscription, it defeats the purpose of a GIA cert and verification!

You guys are probably right though, I am being paranoid. There are very few people I would trust when its this big of a purchase, and that is reallly what it comes down to.
 
So I spoke to the jewler today....he said he was just going to send it to GIA to get the laser inscription without getting an updated report. To me that says he was not really going to send it back to GIA because GIA sends a new report with the laser inscription number on it and it takes a long time. I told him I wanted a new report with the laser inscription number on it. He didn''t understand why, but I said thats how I wanted it. So he said it was going to take longer like GIA said it would, but he would do it. So I think I am getting my way now...we''ll see in 3 weeks when I get it back. He thought I wanted it sooner, so he was just going to get the inscription done. I am guessing that I would be getting the right diamond either way, but he thought he was helping me out by having a thrid party do the laser inscription to get it done faster. As long as it get''s done the way I want it too, then I don''t have a problem. GIA does the laser incription with GIA cert indicating laser inscription...bottomline.
 
Update: After waiting 3 weeks, the diamond finally came back from GIA...new report with laser inscription registry number on it, diamond is laser inscribed, however it seems that GIA actually re-graded the diamond such that a few of the values changed slightly (noted in red below)...


GIA Certified 01/27/07
Shape and Cutting Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: changed from 6.12-6.14 x 3.82 to 6.11-6.14 x 3.82
Carat Weight: 0.89 Carat
Color Grade: E
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Finish-Polish/Symmetry: Excellent/Excellent
Fluoresence: None
Comments: Additional Clouds Not Shown
Table: 56%
Total Depth: changed from 62.3% to 62.4%
Crown Angle: 35 deg
Pavilion Angle: changed from 40.6 deg to 40.8 deg
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavilion Height: 43%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half Length: 75%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick (Faceted)
Cutlet: None

So now my HCA value went from 0.9 to 1.6....what do you guys think? Did I still do alright? $4800 (plus tax) out the door including 18k whitegold Tiffany setting with Platinum head.
 
Yep, I think you got a fair price and it sounds like it all worked out great! So where are the pictures???
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Your new diamond should be quite beautiful!
 
There''s one thing you haven''t told us yet: Is the diamond pretty? Do you like it?

If you can answer yes to both questions, pat yourself on the back and go have a beer. Don''t keep tying yourself in knots. It''s normal to be nervous about a purchase like this, but at this point you need to just relax and enjoy it.
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Date: 2/2/2007 3:06:56 PM
Author: CaptAubrey
There's one thing you haven't told us yet: Is the diamond pretty? Do you like it?

If you can answer yes to both questions, pat yourself on the back and go have a beer. Don't keep tying yourself in knots. It's normal to be nervous about a purchase like this, but at this point you need to just relax and enjoy it.
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Mmmmm....beer......*drool* (Homer Simpson)
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Seriously, if you like it and its *preeeeetty*, don't sweat the small stuff! And indeed, the things that changed are two-tenths of a percentage point, two-tenths of a degree, and one hundreth of a millimeter...

Small stuff!!...miniscule, even...microscopic...!!!

ENJOY YOUR DIAMOND! It should be beautiful.
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darn sarin machine!!!!
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you did just fine. I sounds like a lovely diamond at a reasonable price.

shay
 
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