Help Me Find a Diamond

[piratecaptain]

I just had a thought to add.... I've been following your threads and understand that your gf does not want to sacrifice on color. However, have you considered the following scenario....
IIRC, you posted about an EGL diamond in another thread. I think it might have been F color? Can't remember the clarity. Well, knowing what you know about EGL vs GIA you will agree that an EGL F could very possibly be a GIA H, I, J... So I guess I just don't understand why your gf would not be willing to go lower in color. I would bet that if you two saw ideal cut stones side by side in the G-J range and didn't know which was which, you'd be hard pressed to pick the colors correctly. Now please don't be offended because maybe you are really color sensitive and could tell.... But I just REALLY think you should consider a lower color because then you'd be much more likely to find a lovely stone in the size she wants. It just makes no sense to me that an EGL F would be OK, but a GIA below H would not because it could essentially be the same stone! Honestly, I'd even say buy a gorgeous GIA I or J, send it to EGL for a cert and it will come back with an acceptable color grade

Just my two cents.... Please don't take it the wrong way because I really just want to see you guys get something amazing and in budget and as close to the size she wants... Esp since you've been searching for soooooo long!

ETA: FWIW, the color of the asscher in my avatar is an L!!!!!

The reason that we were considering the "F" EGL stone was that we sat it side by side with some lower colored GIA stones, and it was really in the G/H range of a GIA. It wasn't as low as an "I" (which we also sat it beside). I think it's just that the EGL stone is one that was not graded quite as loosely in color as many EGLs. I would be fine with that stone, but it's just not as clear as I would like. It's graded as an SI1 in clarity, but, frankly, it's probably more of an SI3/I1.

It's not about the letter grade per se. If I could find a "J" that really didn't have much color at all, I'd definitely consider it. It's just that we haven't found one like that. "J" stones generally give off too much color for her liking (she's very sensitive to color -- not so much to clarity, especially if it's something on the edges/bottom).

You have a very pretty stone in your picture, but she would send it back in a heartbeat because of the yellow color. (Even without knowing it was an "L," she would think it was as yellow as the little smiley faces on here, though it obviously isn't . . .)

 

[piratecaptain]

PirateCaptain, does she know that rounds face up larger than cushions? That should be a plus if size is her most important factor.

Example: that 2 ct G SI 2 is 7.03x6.66mm.

My 1.58 ct round is 7.47mm in diameter. That means that cushion would basically sit inside the circumference of my diamond!

Indeed she does. That's one thing we've talked about, but it's also one reason we particularly like what we see in this diamond: http://www.brilliance.com/diamonds/...eal-cut-gia-certified-loose-diamond-D12491322

Apparently, it's easier to gauge how good a round is without pictures than it is a cushion? As I said earlier, I've requested certs, but the specs on this one seem alright.

Question then....if she was happy with the idea of a 2 ct. 7mm cushion, why would the round stone need to be 2 cts? A 1.6 ct round is going to be larger than the cushion she liked.

As far as that stone goes, it is, of course, impossible to say anything without the GIA report, pictures of the stone, and especially, is it eyeclean? The other factor is that it has very strong fluorescence, and that combine with low clarity is not very promising and probably explains the low price. My 1.58 G VS1 has strong blue fluorescence, so there is no haziness caused by the fluoro because my stone is so clean inside. You probably won't get an evaluation on the effects of the fluoro in sunlight and various lighting from that vendor, so be very, very careful.

I think a lot of it is that we haven't really been looking at rounds that much. We've just gotten around to considering them, so I'm all ears. Based on what I've seen, a 1.5-1.75 round generally seems to run about the same price as a 2 carat cushion, so, for the same price, she'd prefer to have the 2 carat cushion since she likes them a bit more. No idea if that makes sense though?

 

[BriBee]

I'm wondering if maybe you should contact Jon at GOG and have him pull some stones for you, G-J, ideal cut, and have him make a video showcasing the color differences in different lighting. He could pull rounds or cushions. Then if you choose one, get it, and don't like it, they have a great return policy. I wouldn't contact him unless you would consider a purchase since the videos take a lot of time and effort... But his videos are a great way to see the differences illustrated IRL and IMO the next best thing to seeing them in person.

ETA: in fact, there are probably already an array of videos on his site that might help you if you felt like searching and watching a few

 

[BriBee]

Also, I kind of think you should stick with cushions if that's what she really wants. I've always appreciated rounds but preferred cushions or asschers for myself. If I received a beautiful round I'd of course love it, but if I had my choice I'd go with a fancy cut. And I think if I got a round I'd kind of always pine for a cushion or asscher. In fact, I originally wanted an asscher, ended up with a cushion I LOVED, but always kinda wanted an asscher more. I just think you should stick with what she wanted from the beginning because you don't want to feel like you settled for a round. That being said, she needs to decide what's more important... A round for the size... Or a smaller cushion because that's the cut she wants.

 

[piratecaptain]

I'm wondering if maybe you should contact Jon at GOG and have him pull some stones for you, G-J, ideal cut, and have him make a video showcasing the color differences in different lighting. He could pull rounds or cushions. Then if you choose one, get it, and don't like it, they have a great return policy. I wouldn't contact him unless you would consider a purchase since the videos take a lot of time and effort... But his videos are a great way to see the differences illustrated IRL and IMO the next best thing to seeing them in person.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check them out and see what's available.

 

[piratecaptain]

Also, I kind of think you should stick with cushions if that's what she really wants. I've always appreciated rounds but preferred cushions or asschers for myself. If I received a beautiful round I'd of course love it, but if I had my choice I'd go with a fancy cut. And I think if I got a round I'd kind of always pine for a cushion or asscher. In fact, I originally wanted an asscher, ended up with a cushion I LOVED, but always kinda wanted an asscher more. I just think you should stick with what she wanted from the beginning because you don't want to feel like you settled for a round. That being said, she needs to decide what's more important... A round for the size... Or a smaller cushion because that's the cut she wants.

Makes sense. I'm sure we'll discuss it a bit more since the idea of a round is a fairly new development. I think she would be happy with either. Apparently, the reason she wanted a cushion was because the first few settings we looked at (that she loved) we made for cushions, so that's what we went with. Since we're reexamining settings, that's what brought back the idea of a round.

 

[BriBee]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PuzMfKYy1To

Here's a link showing different types of cushions.... Not sure what the colors were on these though

ETA: this might be a perfect one to watch bc it shows K,J,E and I

 

[diamondseeker2006]

PC...I had already written the info below before I saw your explanation about the cushion versus round. But honestly, a 1.75-1.80 ideal cut round is going to be larger than most 2 ct cushions. As I said, the 2 ct G SI2 would have fit inside my 1.58 ct stone. Focusing on the 1.7-1.99 range in rounds would be an excellent choice and you could get a better quality stone. I am just leaving my post below but you can change search parameters, of course.

Bee...you know how I feel about GOG, but in the size and price range they are shooting for, I don't see GOG working. They are generally higher than James Allen and JA doesn't have much that works as it is.


Okay, this will help you the most, I think. James Allen has outstanding videos of all their diamonds. I did the search for G-H SI2's at 2 cts for you. You will see than some look pretty decent and others look horrible. If you see one you like, click on it and a video of the stone will load right in the main picture. Click on it and it spins around so you can see the inclusions really well. But this really illustrates why you have to have more than a GIA report to buy an SI2. A LOT of SI2's will not be eyeclean at 2 cts. And the price range starts at $17k.

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-...5.0|DepthTo:80.0|TableFrom:50.0|TableTo:83.0|

 

[BriBee]

Thanks DS... I'm sure you're right as you have more experience with this than me. Maybe he can just view some of their vids for more comparison ideas

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I was curious and there are a lot of 1.7-1.9 rounds in G-H SI1-SI2 and in your price range,too!

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-...:59|DepthTo:62.4|TableFrom:54.0|TableTo:59.0|

 

[piratecaptain]

I was curious and there are a lot of 1.7-1.9 rounds in G-H SI1-SI2 and in your price range,too!

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-...:59|DepthTo:62.4|TableFrom:54.0|TableTo:59.0|

Looks great. Thanks for the help! I'll check out the videos you posted above as well. I have been looking at the James Allen videos -- they're very helpful. It's a shame all places don't do that or something similar.

 

[piratecaptain]

Any thoughts on this one? It's a cushion cut, and it looks like a nice diamond. Obviously, it doesn't have any pictures (which I know makes it hard to offer an opinion), but it does have the GIA report. I also like how it 9mm X 6 mm, which would seem to make it look large on its face.

http://www.uniondiamond.com/AE0559292&ptc=PS

 

[JulieN]

PirateCaptain, does she know that rounds face up larger than cushions? That should be a plus if size is her most important factor.

Example: that 2 ct G SI 2 is 7.03x6.66mm.

My 1.58 ct round is 7.47mm in diameter. That means that cushion would basically sit inside the circumference of my diamond!

This is not right. I'm going to turn the cushion into a perfect rectangle for ease, but the diagonal length (like how TVs and monitors are measured) of 7.03 and 6.66 mm is 9.68mm, quite a bit more than your 7.47mm round.

 

[JulieN]

I have an idea.

Henri Daussi cuts very shallow cushions. They face up just enormously. This is a GIA G, get a copy of the report and a hand shot.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Henri-Daussi-GIA-1-89CT-Cushion-Cut-Diamond-Ring-G-SI1-14K-/150861033080?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item232004ae78

Anyway, IDJ has a handful of them: http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_sop=3&_osacat=0&_armrs=1&_ssn=id_jewelry_llc&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313&_nkw=henri+daussi&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

[piratecaptain]

I have an idea.

Henri Daussi cuts very shallow cushions. They face up just enormously. This is a GIA G, get a copy of the report and a hand shot.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Henri-Daussi-GIA-1-89CT-Cushion-Cut-Diamond-Ring-G-SI1-14K-/150861033080?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item232004ae78

Anyway, IDJ has a handful of them: http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_sop=3&_osacat=0&_armrs=1&_ssn=id_jewelry_llc&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313&_nkw=henri+daussi&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Thanks for the suggestion. Does IDJ have a good reputation, and is their stuff GIA certified? I can't seem to find any mention of who certified the diamonds.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

PirateCaptain, does she know that rounds face up larger than cushions? That should be a plus if size is her most important factor.

Example: that 2 ct G SI 2 is 7.03x6.66mm.

My 1.58 ct round is 7.47mm in diameter. That means that cushion would basically sit inside the circumference of my diamond!

This is not right. I'm going to turn the cushion into a perfect rectangle for ease, but the diagonal length (like how TVs and monitors are measured) of 7.03 and 6.66 mm is 9.68mm, quite a bit more than your 7.47mm round.

I realize the corners will extend over, but the overall height and width are smaller. I just don't think if she wants size above all characteristics that she is going to be as happy with a cushion.

The Daussi cushions are a good idea for her if she wants a cushion, though.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Actually, you can scratch those Daussi rings because only one has a 2 ct cushion and it is an EGL I SI1 which means it is probably J-K color.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Henri-Daussi-EGL-USA-3-33CTW-Cushion-Diamond-Ring-I-SI1-in-18K-/181034286927?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item2a267bff4f

All the others have 1.6 cts or less for the center stones.

ID Jewelry has an okay reputation, but I find some of those ebay listings to be somewhat deceptive when they don't ALL say ctw (carat total weight) in the titles. They lead you to think the main diamond is larger than it is.

 

[piratecaptain]

Actually, you can scratch those Daussi rings because only one has a 2 ct cushion and it is an EGL I SI1 which means it is probably J-K color.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Henri-Daussi-EGL-USA-3-33CTW-Cushion-Diamond-Ring-I-SI1-in-18K-/181034286927?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item2a267bff4f

All the others have 1.6 cts or less for the center stones.

ID Jewelry has an okay reputation, but I find some of those ebay listings to be somewhat deceptive when they don't ALL say ctw (carat total weight) in the titles. They lead you to think the main diamond is larger than it is.

In looking through their diamonds, there were actually some rounds that we really liked in the $14,000 range. While the diamonds you linked all said they were GIA certified, I couldn't find any mention of the round certs.

Example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-00-CT-F-S...t=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item23236574b5

 

[diamondseeker2006]

That looks like an uncertified diamond and I would avoid that like the plague!!! Uncertified is okay in rings with little stones, but you don't want to spend in the thousands because stones that are uncertified are usually being sold for more than they are actually worth. Otherwise, they'd be graded!

I'd go back to James Allen where you can see what the diamond looks like and especially the inclusions.

 

[04diamond<3]

Any thoughts on this one? It's a cushion cut, and it looks like a nice diamond. Obviously, it doesn't have any pictures (which I know makes it hard to offer an opinion), but it does have the GIA report. I also like how it 9mm X 6 mm, which would seem to make it look large on its face.

http://www.uniondiamond.com/AE0559292&ptc=PS

That's another stock picture. You absolutely cannot tell what cut is on a fancy cut stone (princess, cushion, pear, radiant etc), without seeing a picture. I'm not sure that you know what you want to get. She says she likes cushions but you're looking for rounds...Maybe you should talk to her and agree on what cut stone to get. Personally, if she keeps saying she likes cushion, that's what you should get. Rounds and cushions perform very differently.

 

[04diamond<3]

Actually, you can scratch those Daussi rings because only one has a 2 ct cushion and it is an EGL I SI1 which means it is probably J-K color.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Henri-Daussi-EGL-USA-3-33CTW-Cushion-Diamond-Ring-I-SI1-in-18K-/181034286927?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item2a267bff4f

All the others have 1.6 cts or less for the center stones.

ID Jewelry has an okay reputation, but I find some of those ebay listings to be somewhat deceptive when they don't ALL say ctw (carat total weight) in the titles. They lead you to think the main diamond is larger than it is.

In looking through their diamonds, there were actually some rounds that we really liked in the $14,000 range. While the diamonds you linked all said they were GIA certified, I couldn't find any mention of the round certs.

Example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-00-CT-F-S...t=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item23236574b5

ID Jewelry has a good reputation. That is their ebay store, you should go to their website www.idjewelryonline.com to view their stones. They have GIA, AGS and EGL certified stones. You honestly can get the best price from them for a stone so I'd call Yeukitel and see what he can find you. He is very kind and helpful and will give you the best that he has.

 

[JulieN]

Daussi cushions are cut so you don't need two carats to get the 2 ct look.

This is just an example, I don't know if the color is accurate: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Henri-Daussi-EGL-USA-3-37CTW-Cushion-Diamond-Ring-H-SI2-in-PLAT-/380499163875?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item5897847ae3

1.66 cts. 8.94x6.93.

IDJ has a great rep. They know that different people are looking for different things, not everyone is looking for a super-ideal cut. Your gf's priorities are high color and large size.

 

[piratecaptain]

Any thoughts on this one? It's a cushion cut, and it looks like a nice diamond. Obviously, it doesn't have any pictures (which I know makes it hard to offer an opinion), but it does have the GIA report. I also like how it 9mm X 6 mm, which would seem to make it look large on its face.

http://www.uniondiamond.com/AE0559292&ptc=PS

That's another stock picture. You absolutely cannot tell what cut is on a fancy cut stone (princess, cushion, pear, radiant etc), without seeing a picture. I'm not sure that you know what you want to get. She says she likes cushions but you're looking for rounds...Maybe you should talk to her and agree on what cut stone to get. Personally, if she keeps saying she likes cushion, that's what you should get. Rounds and cushions perform very differently.

That's the thing -- she would be happy with either a round or a cushion. It's not that we're going back and forth on them; it's that she's fine with either. I think she would prefer a cushion, but, honestly, she would be fine with either.

 

[BriBee]

You keep saying that either round or cushion is fine, but then ultimately say she prefers cushions... I'd stick with a cushion

 

[piratecaptain]

You keep saying that either round or cushion is fine, but then ultimately say she prefers cushions... I'd stick with a cushion

My point is that it's not a strong preference -- e.g., I'd prefer $1,000 dollars, but I'd be happy to have $999. She's the same way. While she'd prefer a cushion, she'd be very happy with a round. At this point, we just want a diamond . . .

 

[04diamond<3]

You keep saying that either round or cushion is fine, but then ultimately say she prefers cushions... I'd stick with a cushion

My point is that it's not a strong preference -- e.g., I'd prefer $1,000 dollars, but I'd be happy to have $999. She's the same way. While she'd prefer a cushion, she'd be very happy with a round. At this point, we just want a diamond . . .

You really need to stick with what she'd "prefer". She's the one that will have to wear it and if she prefers cushion, she should be able to look at her hand and see what she wanted. I understand why you're saying that she prefers cushions the way you prefer $1,000 compared to $999, however, money and diamonds aren't the same so you really shouldn't be thinking of them the way you do about anything else. Again, I suggest you confirm with her and once you know that she wants _ not _, then you commit to looking for that stone.

 

[labelo]

PirateCaptain, does she know that rounds face up larger than cushions? That should be a plus if size is her most important factor.

Example: that 2 ct G SI 2 is 7.03x6.66mm.

My 1.58 ct round is 7.47mm in diameter. That means that cushion would basically sit inside the circumference of my diamond!

This is not right. I'm going to turn the cushion into a perfect rectangle for ease, but the diagonal length (like how TVs and monitors are measured) of 7.03 and 6.66 mm is 9.68mm, quite a bit more than your 7.47mm round.

I realize the corners will extend over, but the overall height and width are smaller. I just don't think if she wants size above all characteristics that she is going to be as happy with a cushion.

The Daussi cushions are a good idea for her if she wants a cushion, though.

Just wanted to chime in on the area discussion here, since I see it come up a lot:

To find the "face up size" or area of a round, you use the area formula for a circle: Area=3.14(diameter/2)^2.
So the area of your diamond is Area=3.14(7.47/2)^2 = 43.8

To find the face up size for a cushion, you can roughly estimate with the area formula for a rectangle (though the actual area will be slightly smaller since the corners are rounded) Area=lengthxwidth.
So the area of that cushion is Area=7.03x6.66 = 46.8 (in reality, slightly less because of the rounded corners)

All that to say, yes, cushions do generally face up smaller than rounds, but not as much smaller as the dimensions might indicate at first glance. Those two stones would probably face up about the same size.

 

[piratecaptain]

Ignoring the cushion v. round debate for a moment, can I get an opinion of this round? I know it's EGL USA, which most people disapprove of, but it has a picture, which should at least help with an evaluation. Price is $12,900.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/Certificate.aspx?StockNo=2759297

 

[JulieN]

that combo leaks.

HCA gives it a 4.7

The hearts and arrows pictures are not of this stone; 59T with 41.2 PA looks different that picture, which I guess is supposed to be "representative." I would guess the table in that picture is about 56.

 

[JulieN]

7.94 http://jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.90-carat-E-color-SI2-clarity-sku-182790
7.90 http://jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.90-carat-H-color-SI2-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-167098
7.80 http://jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.71-carat-G-color-SI2-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-179910
7.75 http://jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.73-carat-H-color-SI1-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-175457