Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week!

[RandG]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

I emailed to request the ASET per your recommendation. In my cursory review, I thought some blue or obstruction was good to create contrast. Is that just for round diamonds? What are characteristics of the ideal ASET for an emerald? Thanks.

Amar

Amar: So happy you took a closer look at the Tiffany! Compared to the stones you presented, I think its a better stone and value for your money, not to mention it carries the premium of a signed Tiffany piece and a significant piece at that. If you go this route, you are setting a pretty high bar for yourself!

Compared to the Tiffany three stone "D" and Nancy's 4ct "I", I think photo two shows it holding up pretty well. Most important is to see it in person and judge for yourself. Every diamond has compromises and price often reflects that. Light return in an emerald cut is a tricky thing-- they're just not cut to maximize light the way a modern round is. Color, clarity and proportions are incredibly important here because everything shows up in an emerald cut. You have to see it up close, and under a loupe to truly decide.

There are some good evaluation tools out there for modern rounds, but I'm not so sure they work quite as well for fancy shapes like emerald cuts. Your eyes will be the best tool. Over time, cut practices, and what is deemed "ideal" change, and what's important is what's appealing to you-- AND whether a stone can hold its value over time. Fifty years ago, the ideal ratio for an emerald cut was 1.50-1.60. Today, it's more like 1.30-1.40. What will "ideal" be fifty years from now? The question is, is it ideal to you? Will your bride swoon over it? And, if at some point, she loves something more and elects to re-sell, will it be worth what you paid for it, if not more?

You can't buy this ring today at Tiffany for anywhere near the asking price. In my world of buying estate pieces to hold, getting this at 40% or more under its Tiffany retail is a home run. In fact, I would offer $23K, paid via wire, and call it a day! Beladora has an excellent return policy, should you decide its not the ring for you.

I hope you will share with us how this evolves. It's very exciting!

 

[woofmama]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Tiffany or not the 69% table paired with a 62-63% depth would give me pause. It is always recommended on PS to have the opposite for EC's. Gypsy, KarlK, Chrono, JulieN I would love your opinions on this. I follow every step cut thread obsessively and would reject the stone due to what I've learned.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

OK so I'm going to disagree Amar.

There is no evidence that that performance of this stone is better or as good as the ones from JA. The numbers are NOT great and I'd want an ASET. It also looks like it has a low crown.
ASETs are very helpful with step cuts actually.
And yes, you might be getting this ring some percentage off current retail for a NEW Tiffany piece, but it is NOT new and it is being bought from a retailer. So the price listed is the WHAT IT IS WORTH. I don't think it's that much of a steal.
And aside from an ASET, I would ask if this has been authenticated by Tiffany.
I've seen stones at Tiffany that are gorgeous. And I've seen ones I wouldn't buy.
Just having the Tiffany name doesn't make it an autobuy for me.
And those pictures are not helpful at all with a color diagnosis. And the stone is still an I. Whereas all the others he is looking at are Gs. And step cuts show color.

I understand you are excited, but this is an expensive purchase and caution is a good idea. So is getting more information.

 

[amar23]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Thanks for the continued input. It is so helpful. I did notice the less than ideal table/depth numbers and also wished they were switched. The crown angle is 32 degrees, which I failed to mention before if that makes a difference. It does come with the original Tiffany's certification report, box, etc, and I have a copy that they sent me. I don't think they sent it for any additional evaluation.

Regarding the ASET, they responded by saying they can send the loose stone for further analysis but that they only work with GIA. Is there any GIA equivalent of ASET or something comparable should they refuse to send for ASET? RandG suggested I offer 23K for it, is it still not worth it at that price if everything checks out? What if they won't send for ASET? Gypsy, would more high-res photographs help? I really want this ring to check out, but if it isn't up to par, then the JA diamonds will have to suffice.

Amar

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

ok will respond in 2 hours.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

where are you located. metro area???

 

[amar23]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Cleveland, OH.

 

[RandG]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Thanks for the continued input. It is so helpful. I did notice the less than ideal table/depth numbers and also wished they were switched. The crown angle is 32 degrees, which I failed to mention before if that makes a difference. It does come with the original Tiffany's certification report, box, etc, and I have a copy that they sent me. I don't think they sent it for any additional evaluation.

Regarding the ASET, they responded by saying they can send the loose stone for further analysis but that they only work with GIA. Is there any GIA equivalent of ASET or something comparable should they refuse to send for ASET? RandG suggested I offer 23K for it, is it still not worth it at that price if everything checks out? What if they won't send for ASET? Gypsy, would more high-res photographs help? I really want this ring to check out, but if it isn't up to par, then the JA diamonds will have to suffice.

Amar

Amar:

Boy, am I sorry I posted the link to this Tiffany ring. I didn't intend to make it more difficult, but rather offer up what I believe to be a far better value to what you were finding at close to the same price point.

I just bought Tiffany diamond studs almost the same size as this ring, without the ideal proportions, "I" color and they read well in person. Conversely, I evaluated the three stone Tiffany ring, and passed because the stones read flat. Emerald cut stones are very difficult to buy without seeing them in person and judging them with your eye and in varying light. I'm happy to post photos of my comparable Tiffany emerald cut studs for you, if it will help in your assessment of this piece, so you can see that with these types of stones, you can't exclusively rely on specs or test methods that were created for modern round brilliant stones.

Happy to help, and really only want you to get the best value for your money. Sorry for opening a can of worms...

 

[amar23]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Don't apologize. Worst case scenario is that if I buy the diamond, that I simply return the diamond (60 day policy) if it doesn't meet the eye test or isn't to my girlfriend's liking. I'm having them take a high-res close up video and I will upload it as soon as I can. I mentioned the 23K offer and they said they only do 2% discount with wire transfers, but I pushed a little more to see what he could do as its pushing the limit of my budget.

Amar

 

[RandG]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Video will be great! The ring is priced REALLY well and I can't stress it enough, a signed Tiffany piece at this aggressive price point is a great investment, far better than any of the stones you posted. Beladora is the retail arm of a much larger and important estate jewelry buying/wholesale concern. You have nothing to fear as far as authenticity. Nonetheless, I did take my earrings to Tiffany to have them authenticated, under the guise I was concerned the prongs were loose. Should you buy the ring, you can do the same thing.

If it's a budget buster, that's a whole other story. They do not typically negotiate, largely because they price their pieces really aggressively from the outset. But if it were me (and I'm pretty hard driving on the buy side), I would push for a deeper discount too.

 

[amar23]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Here's the video. Eager (and nervous) to see what you all think.

http://player.vimeo.com/external/99778730.hd.mp4?s=92554346faa9f699e94f8491e0faf1f4

 

[RandG]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Here's the video. Eager (and nervous) to see what you all think.

http://player.vimeo.com/external/99778730.hd.mp4?s=92554346faa9f699e94f8491e0faf1f4

Not ideal video but it looks better than the photos, for sure. I do see cut similarity with my studs. Take a look- ratio of 1.26. Table 66% to depth of 61% and 64% to 61%. Like the ring, they have a ton of fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpIdxE-cp0g

The question is, what do you think of the ring now that you've seen the video?

 

[amar23]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

The diamond sparkles in the video and no glaring defects per my untrained eye. Looks nice to me; however, ignorance is bliss. Although it is "eye-clean" to me, I'd like affirmation from more critical sets of eyes. That way, the diamond will be "mind clean" and I will feel like I got the most out of my money. At the end of the day, as long as my future wife loves it, I will be happy. At some point I'm gonna have to make a decision on the information available. I'm sure one of the JA diamonds will be excellent as well, but it won't have the same Tiffany's setting given my time crunch... what do you think of the video? I'm eager to see Gypsy's analysis as well. Maybe one of the JA's is one I can't pass up.

Amar

 

[RandG]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

I think you have a pretty good eye! This is a Tiffany stone. You don't get to have the pedigree and international prestige of Tiffany by selling poorly cut diamonds. It's a shame the waters got muddied here, because to me, this is a no brainer. I've been buying and selling estate pieces for more than 20 years now. I learned a long time ago to trust my eyes, my instincts. It's okay to take in all the feedback, but in the end, go with your gut. No matter what, it will be the right decision.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

If you want to take a chance on it. You have a day return policy. Have it sent directly to Neil Beaty instead of to you, he can evaluate it for you and send you an ASET. Then have him send it to you, with the appraisal. See it, then make up your mind with all the information.

If you don't like it, send it back for a refund. If you do like, you have Neil's appraisal for your insurance, and that's gold. www.americangemregistry.com


That's what I'd do.

I disagree with Rand, fundamentally. Apparently for him pedigree is enough. Not for me. I'm not buying a pedigree. And I don't wear a pedigee on your finger. You wear a diamond. So make sure that diamond is the best you can buy-- regardless of pedigree.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Can't see the video.

Ok. I see the video. Has promise. But... again. You get a 60 day return policy. That's nice. Send it to Neil. It'll cost you max 200 including shipping. Totally worth it.

 

[amar23]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Gypsy, I appreciate your honest feedback.

Does Mr. Beaty remove the stone from the setting himself and then put it back or do I have to tell the vendor to remove the stone from the setting? I'm glad you think it has promise! More promise than the JA diamonds you selected? Ha. I wish I had the JA ASETs so I could just make a decision.

On that note, since I cannot get the ASET of the Tiffany without making the purchase, should I buy it now and have them send to Neil ASAP? And if the ASET is not good, they will pay for return shipping and I can wire the money back in time for me to buy the JA. The JA ASETs probably won't be available until Friday.

Amar

 

[RandG]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

If you want to take a chance on it. You have a day return policy. Have it sent directly to Neil Beaty instead of to you, he can evaluate it for you and send you an ASET. Then have him send it to you, with the appraisal. See it, then make up your mind with all the information.

If you don't like it, send it back for a refund. If you do like, you have Neil's appraisal for your insurance, and that's gold. www.americangemregistry.com


That's what I'd do.

I disagree with Rand, fundamentally. Apparently for him pedigree is enough. Not for me. I'm not buying a pedigree. And I don't wear a pedigee on your finger. You wear a diamond. So make sure that diamond is the best you can buy-- regardless of pedigree.

I'm sorry you read that from the my various posts within this thread. It's simply not true. I was not impressed with any of the stones Amar found in his search, and instead of making disparaging comments about them, I made an alternate suggestion based on my own evaluation of this ring weeks ago. The fact that it's Tiffany, and at this price, is icing on the cake. All you have to do is a search of past major auction house results, signed pieces like this one sell far better than unsigned pieces. When it comes to valuation, Pedigree does matter. It also happens to be a beautiful ring!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Yes, send to Neil. He doesn't HAVE to unset the stone. But he can. I asked him to for me, when I sent my stone in to him. He has the skill and ability to do so. It's up to you.

I think your plan is a good one. Call Neil make sure the timing works for him.

 

[amar23]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

In my time crunch, the holiday is screwing me. So I won't have the results back in time per Neil to make a decision. If the Tiffany fails the ASET, then it might be pushing it for the JA to be set before our trip, and I can't chance that. My plan is to buy it, propose with it, and then have it appraised by Neil after I get back within the 60-day window. If it fails miserably, then I can send it back and ask for a new set of choices from Gypsy! But I'm hoping the ASET is acceptable, and as long as she loves it, I will be OK with it!

Final agreed upon price $23,250 via wire and ring on hold until I make final decision early next week. Will be sure to let you all know how it goes. Now I'm off to study for my boards!

Amar

 

[Travelgal]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Amar- just wanted to say your lady is very lucky to have a boyfriend who has done the amount of research and cares as much about this decision as you do. You really can't go wrong. The James Allen stones look great and I am sure will be beautiful in person. There are also very few women out there who would open a Tiffany's box and be disappointed. I am not normally an advocate for Tiffany's new because I think it's overpriced and you can get better value for your money elsewhere. Totally different story with estate Tiffany's. Please know that you really can't go wrong. Congrats on your upcoming engagement!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Sounds good!

Come back with pics and I'd like to see Neil's ASET!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Under no circumstances would I remove the diamond from the setting, amar! I'd never let anyone but Tiffany do anything to the ring at all. Even with sizing, it needs to go to Tiffany.

I saw no obstruction in the video. It looks like a gorgeous emerald cut diamond. Now let me say to be fair that somewhere in the world my ideal emerald cut exists, and it is cut a lot like that one except I prefer a smaller table if I can get it. But I think that stone is stunning in that setting, and I think the price is good for what it is.

I just reread your last post and see that you are going to propose with this ring. I have one piece of advice. If she LOVES the ring, I would NOT send it anywhere!!! Keep it if she loves it and know you got one great deal on a Tiffany ring! And as I think I said before, take her to Tiffany's in a few months to try on wedding bands and you'll have a perfect set!

 

[Indican]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

I'm a newbie and all this technical talk is above my head, but I LOVE the Tiffany ring! Lucky girl!

 

[RandG]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

In my time crunch, the holiday is screwing me. So I won't have the results back in time per Neil to make a decision. If the Tiffany fails the ASET, then it might be pushing it for the JA to be set before our trip, and I can't chance that. My plan is to buy it, propose with it, and then have it appraised by Neil after I get back within the 60-day window. If it fails miserably, then I can send it back and ask for a new set of choices from Gypsy! But I'm hoping the ASET is acceptable, and as long as she loves it, I will be OK with it!

Final agreed upon price $23,250 via wire and ring on hold until I make final decision early next week. Will be sure to let you all know how it goes. Now I'm off to study for my boards!

Amar

Amar:

Big congratulations and what a terrific deal-- you did a great job! I hope once you have it in your hands, you will rest assured you made the right choice, without any doubts. It just doesn't get better than a 2+ carat Tiffany emerald cut engagement ring. Total ring envy! I hope you will keep us posted and let us know how she likes it! Best of luck on your impending Boards as well!

 

[amar23]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

So many thanks to the pricescope community (RandG, Gypsy in particular, and everyone else who took the time to help a random plea for help)!! I would have ended up with a subpar diamond that I wouldn't have been happy with if it weren't for you all. Instead, I have found a exponentially better ring that has character and looks beautiful. I would have been fine with the JAs Gypsy selected, too. And just like RandG said, the Tiffany's signature makes a bit of a difference, but it's secondary to the fact that it is a fine diamond on its own. My girlfriend would love it regardless and it's that timeless look that I know will fit her tastes perfectly.

Once in hand, I will post a copious amount of pictures and video. RandG, thanks for the wishes and making me aware of that beautiful ring.

Amar

 

[amar23]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Just wanted to give you guys a quick update. I got the Tiffany ring. 2.12 ct center stone. I VVSI. Looks beautiful to the eye. Here is a pic and a 120 fps HD video I took on my iPhone. It's thunder storming where I live, so had to rely on suboptimal incandescent indoor light. Gypsy, RandG and everyone else, what do you think? I'm still waiting on the ASETs from James Allen.

Amar



Video link

http://vimeo.com/100218883

 

[RandG]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Amar:

It's stunning. In poor lighting, its a brilliant cut, with a fantastic and easily discernible step pattern at varying angles. It's perfect. My hope for you is to feel relief, joy, and excitement-- with no more doubt or question. You did a great job. It's a ring every girl dreams of and is proud to wear. Tiffany has a standard to their stones, and that stone represents a level of premium quality too few are able to enjoy. Honestly, I wouldn't waste another anxious second or dollar, nor would I put that ring in the hands of anyone other than Tiffany. For what you paid, you stole that piece from Beladora. Enjoy it.

To give you added comfort, I am in the process of working with Tiffany to potentially take the emerald cut earrings I have (2.25/2.24) to make a three stone ring (which also had less than "ideal" specs but proved beautiful). They just sent me quotes on different stones for the center. One of the stones quoted is an H VS1, 3.02 carats, and it retails for $110K. Not only did you find a beautiful ring, and well cut, but you found great value too. Most people cannot turn around and sell their diamond for what they paid for it. You can. If I were you, once you get situated, I would take your ring to Tiffany and have them re-evaluate it, service it, and give you an updated registration number and appraisal-- log it in their system with you as the owner. The cost is nominal and well worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if they appraise it in the 40-50K range, if not more.

I can't wait to see it on your bride's hand! Congratulations.

 

[Travelgal]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

Beautiful. I have ring envy.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help on Emerald Cut purchase! Need to finalize this week

I do not see the steps walk but perhaps that could be due to the lights in your house.