HELP regarding the Sapphire

[MrsWhitney]

Hi! I am new to the world of colored gems, so I know some Sapphires (many) are heat treated. But I liked the 3 baguette design of the ring below....

It came with an appraisal (which I assumed was over-rated) but specs:

1 Rectangular Faceted 8.73 x 5.46 x 3.36 Sapphire
2 Baguette Cut 5.0 -3.0mm H,I, SI
Marked Platinum
4.67 Grams

Replacement Value in USD was $4,300

I got the ring from the UK yesterday night- and the sapphire while pretty (I like dark) clearly showed a heat treatment. I took it to my local jeweler who said something like "heat treated but natural....the cloud I slightly see could be from diffusion"....


SO my question is, was $1500 way over-paid? Is heat-treated and diffusion like fracture filling diamonds? I am lost
It is a pretty ring for the price but...

 

[Sabrina31]

I think 1500 for something fracture filled was way over priced. When i was new i bought a lab created stone because i didn't know what was out there. I found price scope when the jeweler broke that stone and I'll probably never go back again. We can help you find a better stone if you like. Personally i'm fine with heat treatment, but that"s a personal preference, and it does make stones a little more affordable. Are you able to return that ring?

 

[MrsWhitney]

I think 1500 for something fracture filled was way over priced. When i was new i bought a lab created stone because i didn't know what was out there. I found price scope when the jeweler broke that stone and I'll probably never go back again. We can help you find a better stone if you like. Personally i'm fine with heat treatment, but that"s a personal preference, and it does make stones a little more affordable. Are you able to return that ring?

Thank you for replying-so it is fractured filled right?

 

[MrsWhitney]

I think 1500 for something fracture filled was way over priced. When i was new i bought a lab created stone because i didn't know what was out there. I found price scope when the jeweler broke that stone and I'll probably never go back again. We can help you find a better stone if you like. Personally i'm fine with heat treatment, but that"s a personal preference, and it does make stones a little more affordable. Are you able to return that ring?

I am trying to return it (per eBay's add for him I have 14 days!) and he is balking. He says heat treatment is normal. I wouldn't mind if it was heat treated. But I could have misunderstood the jeweler I took it to but he said something along the lines of the bubble-like color you see in some pics are indication of heating and poss diffusion.

 

[Sabrina31]

Theres no way to know with out a gia certificate as far as i know. What did you mean by clear evidence of heat treatment?

 

[Sabrina31]

What did he have listed as far as treatment? Is it 14 days no questions asked?

 

[MrsWhitney]

Theres no way to know with out a gia certificate as far as i know. What did you mean by clear evidence of heat treatment?

I went in asking if it was natural.He looked at it with a loupe and said that it is "clearly heat treated"and then used the spot in question as the evidence for heating. He said the quality was not great, but the setting was decent. He could do a full appraisal but it was$200 and not done in time for a return if I want. It says 14 days no questions but he is saying since he shipped to me in the U.S. it "voids" it though it says NOWHERE of that on eBay.

 

[T L]

All diffused sapphires are heated, but not all heated sapphires are diffused. Even if you don't get a refund, I really think $1500 is a fair price for the diamond platinum setting. Those are nice clean diamonds, and i love the Art Deco style of it. However, if the stone was misrepresented somehow, you do deserve a refund.

 

[lilmosun]

Hi -

I think your appraiser might be raising the possibility of BE diffusion, which clouds can be a sign of. To my knowledge this method of treatment is for color enhancement. Many here would consider any treatment other than low heat as not generally acceptable (but is common in the marketplace--many known retail jewelers, including some designer names, won't guarantee against it).

** Edited, I just saw it was platinum which I missed..in which case, I think your ring is fine as the value is in the setting and you love it. Enjoy! **

Welcome to the crazy complicated world of colored stones (and on a side note, glad to see you back on PS and hope this means your doing better).

 

[MrsWhitney]

All diffused sapphires are heated, but not all heated sapphires are diffused. Even if you don't get a refund, I really think $1500 is a fair price for the diamond platinum setting. Those are nice clean diamonds, and i love the Art Deco style of it. However, if the stone was misrepresented somehow, you do deserve a refund.

Thank you. They really are. And I like the ring- just not the sapphire---which I can always switch out someday.

 

[MrsWhitney]

Hi -

I think your appraiser might be raising the possibility of BE diffusion, which clouds can be a sign of. To my knowledge this method of treatment is for color enhancement. Many here would consider any treatment other than low heat as not generally acceptable (but is common in the marketplace--many known retail jewelers, including some designer names, won't guarantee against it).

You like the dark tone but personally I think the cut does nothing to bring it to life. On the other hand, I have a friend who is looking for a dark blue sapphire just like yours The white wisps in pictures 3 and 4 (is that the cloud?) would bother me. I think PSers here could help you find a ring with a nicer dark sapphire but its a matter of taste. Whether you could get it for $1500 is questionable (not sure of the metal, weight or quality of the setting - you may be paying more for the setting than the stone). Colored stones don't have a standard for vale like diamonds, so opinions aside, the question I've learned to ask is...do you really love it?

Welcome to the crazy complicated world of colored stones (and on a side note, glad to see you back on PS and hope this means your doing better).

You could be right- that makes sense. Yes, I like darker stones and emerald cuts...even though it is not often desired. It is the cloudy section (suppose white wisps) that bother me (it is hard to get them to show but it bothers me). I would like it without the cloud/wisps. You are right, colored stones are HARD

 

[T L]

Thank you. They really are. And I like the ring- just not the sapphire---which I can always switch out someday.

You're welcome. I'm a sucker for Art Deco styles.

If the sapphire is diffused, 90% of the value is in the setting. You could always replace the stone, but I'm not sure if that's a calibrated cut, so finding a colored stone, let alone another sapphire that size and shape may be extremely difficult. I think an aqua would be pretty in there and they're often cut in baguette shapes like that sapphire. Good luck with whatever you decide to do with the ring.

 

[lilmosun]

lol...I am having trouble keeping up...so I will just say "+1" to what TL (who is wiser than me in these matters anyway) said.

 

[LD]

I love Art Deco styles and the price you paid is good for the setting on its own so you can probably exclude the sapphire from your thought process. If you return the ring, how much will you have to pay for a platinum setting - perhaps a similar one? Take that into account before you send the ring back (presumably you'll have to add shipping into the equation if you send it back as well).

I'm not sure I would take your jeweller's opinion (because that's all it is) to heart. It was described as heat treated so that's a given but as for diffused and/or fracture filled, with just a loupe, unless it was VERY obvious, I wouldn't take that as correct. The only way to know for sure is to send it to a lab. However, bearing in mind what you've paid and the hassle of returning, I would take the centre stone out and replace it witn one you love. I would then put the sapphire into a different setting at some point and/or get it assessed properly and/or sell that to finance your new stone.

By the way, I'm glad you didn't pay for an appraisal at $200 because the jeweller doesn't have the equipment to test the stone properly so you would be paying for his "best guess" and that doesn't hold water and isn't proof of what the stone is/isn't.

Heat treatment, diffusion and fracture filling are all separate issues.

 

[partgypsy]

I think it is a beautiful setting. However I personally would not buy a ring if I was not crazy about the center stone. Sure it can be replaced, but that's an additional cost, plus it would be a headache to try to find a stone that matched. And if you use another size stone, the setting just won't be the same. That's just my opinion. If you don't mind wearing the ring as is, and are comfortable with the price, then keep it.

 

[MrsWhitney]

I think it is a beautiful setting. However I personally would not buy a ring if I was not crazy about the center stone. Sure it can be replaced, but that's an additional cost, plus it would be a headache to try to find a stone that matched. And if you use another size stone, the setting just won't be the same. That's just my opinion. If you don't mind wearing the ring as is, and are comfortable with the price, then keep it.

I agree....it is going to be hard to replace the center stone, and I am not sure the setting will fit/accommodate most....

Even though the seller (eBay) has a 14 return policy he is now claiming a 30% stocking fee...so I am awaiting to hear from eBay.

This is a nightmare...and I know better but yes, I like the setting and the side stones are lovely....but to lose 30% seems insane.

 

[minousbijoux]

Wow. Was the 30% restocking fee stated upfront?

 

[MrsWhitney]

Wow. Was the 30% restocking fee stated upfront?

NOPE. So it looks like I have to go through the Ebay case thing....the jeweler claims I got a steal and that it is the real thing, not diffused...and is ignoring the fact I should get a refund regardless.

 

[jewelsforalltosee]

eBay should have you covered if what the seller is saying was not clear and disclosed up front in the listing. If a 30% restocking fee, I would just keep the ring. If you can send it back, it seems that would be easier than trying to find another stone to fit the setting. Good luck!
ETA: has eBay gotten back to you with an answer?

 

[MrsWhitney]

Yes, just I know I won't wear it- and instead will be just trying to sell it for $1,000...or so...

 

[LD]

NOPE. So it looks like I have to go through the Ebay case thing....the jeweler claims I got a steal and that it is the real thing, not diffused...and is ignoring the fact I should get a refund regardless.

That's disgraceful. Out of anger I would send it back now AND involve Ebay /Paypal who will definitely find in your favour if the 30% restocking fee wasn't mentioned up front. If he has a 14 day refund policy then it shouldn't matter whether the gemstone is diffused or not - you've simply changed your mind after seeing it. Make sure you get it insured for the return journey because this seller doesn't sound very nice at all.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hi, Dani!

There's a thread in Hangout asking how you're doing!

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/calling-mrswhitney-how-are-you-doing.219105/

 

[jewelsforalltosee]

+1 what LD said. You're the customer. Dispute the transaction thru Paypal AND with your credit card company if you used a CC.

 

[MrsWhitney]

Hi- Thanks all! I am awaiting PayPal...but I also thought something else was odd, and it could be just me (though I know platinum/diamonds well, just not gemstones)....is it odd that the platinum has a dark "tarnish"? It is marked platinum...but...

 

[Phanie]

Yes it is odd. Not normal in my opinion.
Dull is OK as platinum gets dull but tarnished , I never heard that before. Sometimes in the solder used at joint points yes but not on th esolid parts of the ring.
I don't like this at all.
Damnit..

 

[Bron357]

Tell the eBay seller that the ring is not as described, you are opening a “not as described” dispute. And Do it now. Send a message to the seller outlining your concerns (again) through the dispute process, that the listing did not disclose the treatments to the sapphire which drastically affect its value and durability so you wish to return it for “a full refund”. His reply will come through the dispute process. I’d use PayPal for the dispute (my preference) and wait for their verdict. You might need something in writing from a jeweler but usually PayPal will find in your favor (the buyer) and you will be required to return it the exact same way as received - by registered and signed for mail. Keep your mailing receipt and upload the tracking number to the dispute section of your PayPal account. This is all you are required to do.

 

[MrsWhitney]

I just saw this- I will go through PayPal- thank you---in lieu of eBay.

 

[Bron357]

I couldn’t find the eBay listing (you can check sold items btw) but looking through, I think you can do better than that ring for your $1,500. And usually eBay is a good place to shop, most sellers are happy to accept a return without drama for a good reason. I’ve been buying on eBay over 12 years with onlyl a handful of hiccups. And no, a restocking fee, unless clearly stated in the listing, is not on. For business eBay sellers who have staff and a shop and inventory to run, a 10% restocking fee might be charged and is I guess understandable, but I personally don’t chose to deal with sellers who don’t have a return policy or who charge a restocking fee. It is fair for the buyer to pay for the shipping and return shipping as well (always by registered, signed for mail and keep your tracking details) and to assist the buyer by “cancelling the transaction” if requested (otherwise eBay charges them the fees anyway). That said, it’s still best to buy with the intention to love and keep and if in doubt, either ask for more photos or pass it by. Hopefully it all resolved satisfactorily for you.

 

[MrsWhitney]

I couldn’t find the eBay listing (you can check sold items btw) but looking through, I think you can do better than that ring for your $1,500. And usually eBay is a good place to shop, most sellers are happy to accept a return without drama for a good reason. I’ve been buying on eBay over 12 years with onlyl a handful of hiccups. And no, a restocking fee, unless clearly stated in the listing, is not on. For business eBay sellers who have staff and a shop and inventory to run, a 10% restocking fee might be charged and is I guess understandable, but I personally don’t chose to deal with sellers who don’t have a return policy or who charge a restocking fee. It is fair for the buyer to pay for the shipping and return shipping as well (always by registered, signed for mail and keep your tracking details) and to assist the buyer by “cancelling the transaction” if requested (otherwise eBay charges them the fees anyway). That said, it’s still best to buy with the intention to love and keep and if in doubt, either ask for more photos or pass it by. Hopefully it all resolved satisfactorily for you.

It was Ebay.co.uk but it is there....It is amazing he won't return it and even sadder that eBay is claiming since I paid via PayPal but through his 2 requests (I broke the payment into 2) that it is no longer covered via eBay....only PayPal or my credit card/bank.

I did just get back from the jeweler (the best one in the town by recs) and he found the setting had been resized, and made with an 18kt gold thing....but it was platinum...and then they rhodium plated it to cover it up....however the side diamonds are .30 each (he took them out) and said they are F/G VS...and so he said at the least those were alright. And better than advertised. He was not sure without further testing but thinks the sapphire is fracture filled. So....I am just heartbroken. I have no clue what to do if I cannot find someone to ship it with insurance....

 

[Bron357]

Ok, found the listing.
Hope you haven’t told him the ring has been “dismantled” by the jeweler as that would “void” any return. Don’t mention it.
Open a PayPal dispute. Go to the “resolve a problem with our Resolution Centre” (lower left of your account activity page). Select the transaction or transactions (You might have to do two if you paid two amounts). Select significantly not as described.
Write.
I wish to receive a full refund of my payment as the ring is not as described and in accordance with your stated refund policy as per the eBay listing. My jeweler has advised that the platinum ring has been previously repair soldered with white gold and then rhodium plated which has worn and left ugly staining on the platinum metal. This can not be removed, the ring will have to be re rhodium plated to hide the flaw. This flaw was not revealed to me prior to purchase. Your listing also states under item specifics that the diamonds are “fancy blue” which they are not, they are white. Your eBay listing clearly states that I may return the ring for a refund if it does not meet with my expectation, which it did not. However when I contacted you to arrange a return, in accordance with your stated refund policy, you told me that it was subject to a 30% restocking fee. Your eBay listing makes no mention of any restocking fee. This is false and misleading, I would not have bought from you had you disclosed that you don’t honor your return policy for international buyers and that you charge a 30% restocking fee. Accordingly I have raised this dispute so I can receive a full refund of my payments (s) and return the ring to you. Thank you.
Take screen shot or photo of the eBay listing page to capture the top box section where it says “ Item specifics” and the “fancy diamond colour” - blue. And also the page which shows the return policy. Upload both these pages with your dispute.
Good luck, hopefully the seller will decide to refund in full or PayPal will find in your favour.