Help Requested: Fluorescent Diamond for Bellerina Setting

[thelvyn123]

Hi all. I''ve been reading these forums for a few days now and there seems to be a wealth of information. I know that my question has been answered in one form or another but I just wanted to get direct confirmation before I move ahead with my purchase.

I saw a few pictures of fluorescent diamonds the other day and I really liked the way they look. The person I will be giving the diamond to may encounter blacklights quite frequently so the glow of the diamond would be a very interesting touch. I was originally planning on spending a little less than $1000 for the pendant but then I fell in love with the Bellerina setting from Whiteflash. I''m thinking that my budget is now more in line with $1800 for the completed pendant.

I''m hoping to find some answers to the following questions.

1) Fluorescence - Is there a significant difference between Strong and Very Strong fluorescence? This is sort of the point of the gift but I realize there are significantly fewer Very Strong stones out there.

2) Color/Clarity - I think I''ve settled on getting an ideal cut for the stone but I''m still undecided regarding color/clarity. The perfectionist in me wants a D/IF, but realistically speaking I''m not sure I can tell the difference between that and a I/SI1 (I saw pictures of Belle''s pendant and it is absolutely stunning).

3) Carat - Assuming I sacrifice a lot on Color/Clarity, I believe I can go up as far as a .70 (J/SI1) and stay within my budget. Given that the bellerina has a fairly thick bezel, would there be a significant difference in appearance between a .50ct and a .70ct?

4) Cost - If there isn''t a significant difference in size and color/clarity, perhaps I would be better off getting a .50 (I/SI) and just call it a day. What do you guys think?

Thanks so much!
Thel

 

[tyty333]

Date: 9/25/2009 2:39:46 AM
Author:thelvyn123
Hi all. I've been reading these forums for a few days now and there seems to be a wealth of information. I know that my question has been answered in one form or another but I just wanted to get direct confirmation before I move ahead with my purchase.

I saw a few pictures of fluorescent diamonds the other day and I really liked the way they look. The person I will be giving the diamond to may encounter blacklights quite frequently so the glow of the diamond would be a very interesting touch. I was originally planning on spending a little less than $1000 for the pendant but then I fell in love with the Bellerina setting from Whiteflash. I'm thinking that my budget is now more in line with $1800 for the completed pendant.

I'm hoping to find some answers to the following questions.

1) Fluorescence - Is there a significant difference between Strong and Very Strong fluorescence? This is sort of the point of the gift but I realize there are significantly fewer Very Strong stones out there.

2) Color/Clarity - I think I've settled on getting an ideal cut for the stone but I'm still undecided regarding color/clarity. The perfectionist in me wants a D/IF, but realistically speaking I'm not sure I can tell the difference between that and a I/SI1 (I saw pictures of Belle's pendant and it is absolutely stunning).

3) Carat - Assuming I sacrifice a lot on Color/Clarity, I believe I can go up as far as a .70 (J/SI1) and stay within my budget. Given that the bellerina has a fairly thick bezel, would there be a significant difference in appearance between a .50ct and a .70ct?

4) Cost - If there isn't a significant difference in size and color/clarity, perhaps I would be better off getting a .50 (I/SI) and just call it a day. What do you guys think?

Thanks so much!
Thel

I am going to take a stab at answering your questions (to the best of my ability

) since no one else has chimed
in.

1) here is a link to info on fluor.
http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fluor.asp
I would think that strong blue fluor would be plenty good enough. She wont be able to see it since its a
pendant but I guess you are talking about other people noticing it.
2) since it is a pendant and you do want fluor go lower in color for more bang for your buck (bigger stone).
In many cases the fluor makes a lower colored stone face up whiter. Lower clarity will also give you more
bang for your buck.
3) at this size of diamond you will be able to notice the difference between a .5 and a .7. Go lower in
color/clarity with blue fluor and go with bigger stone (my opinion and I think the general opinion of PS).
4)Looks like I saw about a $600 dollar difference between a .5 and .7. It may be difficult to find a .7 for
$1350 (pendant setting $450) and stay under budget. I would get the biggest diamond you could and
still stay under your $1800 budget. You may be able to drop down into J color and stay under budget
for a bigger stone.

Edit - also forgot to mention that you need to have any stone with strong fluor checked in direct sunlight
to make sure it doesnt go milky. Susposedly this is rare but make sure!

EDIT 2 - I was trying to stay with whiteflash since that is who has the setting and I found this....
http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2149027.htm

You would have to call them about it. I couldnt get the GIA report to come up on it to check all the
numbers. I dont know if its not in house or if they just havent processed it in yet or what. Other
than that I didnt see much in the .7 range/lower color/lower clarity.

 

[exoticisabella]

I have what is believed to be just under a half carat, very strong blue flur., excellent cut either transitional or modern diamond...I''ve heard it both from different experts in the area

. Anywho, like I said in another post, I

my flour. diamond as it adds much sparkle and I do get a lot of compliments about it.

As for your other questions, this is just my 2cents based off of what I own/have owned and that fact that I work in a bank and people are AlWAYS looking at my hands.

1 - don''t know this one, but I have a v. strong and it sparkles like crazy! Interesting thing I''ve noticed is that it tends to shoot out more blue sparkle than my other diamonds

2-I have a D colored diamond in my e-ring and it can be tough and expensive to find a matching colorless band (at least where I am at). I am color sensitive and can''t stand putting H colored band next to D. But, my halo set strong blue flour. diamond is estimated to be an H/I with the side diamonds being H/I and I love it. To me the D colored diamonds seem to have more "shock value" and although my diamond is only 3/4 carats I''ve had people ask if it were real or CZ. As far as clarity, I''ve had I1 to VS1 - My favorite range of diamond is the SI range, both my "main" diamonds are this- great value and I love the fact that when I get it back from being worked on I know exactly where to look for its "flaws" (under a loupe of course - mine is a 30x) to know that it''s my diamond

3 - my thoughts on this....no. It really depends on how it is set. People think that my half carat with a halo is a full carat, and to me my tiffany set (soon to be bezel - can''t wait!

) 3/4 carat looks so much smaller.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6198/

check this beauty out ...again I''m not the "expert"

...but..... .64 carats, H, SI1 Ideal, $1,600

 

[glitterata]

The labs are inconsistent in grading fluorescence, and there''s a wide range within the grades. I have two diamonds both graded strong blue by AGS and one is much brighter than the other. So if you want the fluorescence to be visible in daylight (giving the diamond an extra little blue/lavender glow), you should look for very strong blue just to make sure.

If you just want it to glow under a black light, strong will probably do it. Some strong blues are closer to medium and won''t glow very brightly, but the blue will definitely still be visible. Some strong blues are closer to very strong and will glow very brightly.

The fluorescence will probably make the diamond look a little whiter in daylight (or if it''s in the colorless range it may make it look slightly bluish or lavender in daylight). So you might be able to go down a little lower in color.

If you haven''t yet, you should go look at diamonds of different colors--make sure they have grading reports from GIA or AGS--to see what the colors look like to your eyes. You may find D is overkill--you might not be able to tell the difference between D and G or between G and I.

 

[FB.]

If you want fluorescence, I would recommend going all the way and trying to find a well-cut stone with very strong blue - but there aren't many v.strong fluor around, and even fewer that are well cut.

In the lower clarity grades (SI-I), I have seen clouds as the source of fluorescence, meaning an uneven distribution of lilac colour within the stone. I think that might be where fluorescence gets it's reputation of causing a "cloudy" appearance to the diamond. If you're going for SI clarity, ask the vendor to see whether the fluorescence is evenly distributed and whether the stone turns milky/oily/opaque when it fluoresces - just to be on the safe side - although it will probably not be a problem.
I have yet to encouter a v.strong fluor stone with VS or better clarity that had a milky/cloudy appearance; the dubious stones were a small number of those with SI or I clarity.

I think that a high colour grade (D-G) shows off the fluorescence better - and it often costs a little less than a non-fluorescent D-G stone of equivalent weight/cut/clarity. But you'll probably still get plenty of noticeable fluorescence from a J. However, medium-strong fluorescence and J colour can actually increase the cost of the stone because it looks brighter.

What you'll find is that a well-cut diamond's "face-up" light return properties will mask some of the lilac colour in the same way as they mask the yellow colour of J colour stones. To really see the fluorescence at it's best, you either need to be at a UV-lit club, or see the stone almost from the side (where there isn't much reflected light), or in light shade on a summer day (even a North-facing window).
Basically, to see the lilac colour, you don't want the stone to be reflecting too much strong white light from it's surroundings.

I posted some pictures of a 1.1ct, D, VS, pear diamond on these threads:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/helpful-threads-archive.72078/page-2

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pear-shaped-diamond-question.121650/


I hope that info helps.

 

[stone-cold11]

I believe ballerina setting will only be sold with a stone. So if you want to get one, ask WF to source a Fluorescent stone for you.

 

[FB.]

Notice that in the picture of the stone in a shaded room (with slight fluorescence visible), the fluor is being seen from the parts of the diamond that are not reflecting light straight back at you - which is what I was trying to explain above.

 

[thelvyn123]

Thanks so much for all of your responses! They were very helpful and I took your suggestions into account as I narrowed down my list of stones. I''ve come up with the following short list.

I found a great stone on BN but Whiteflash doesn''t have it in stock

0.53 ct Very Strong Fluoresence H VS1 Table 58% Depth 60.3% Crown 35 Pavilion 40.6 HCA 0.9(!) - $1,162

Whiteflash was able to find me the following stones

0.50 ct Strong Fluoresence H VS1 Table 54% Depth 62.7% Crown 34 Pavilion 41.2 HCA 3.1 - $1,075
0.51 ct Strong Fluoresence I VS2 Table 54% Depth 62.1% Crown 34.5 Pavilion 40.8 HCA 1.4 - $950
0.54 ct Very Strong Fluoresence H SI1 Table 55% Depth 61.5% (other stats not available atm) - $950

These stones all seem to be close to what I found on BN but none seem quite as good. At the same time, I will need to make a decision to purchase within the next 3-4 days in order to ensure that the pendant arrives on time. I wanted to get everyone''s opinion on which stone of the 3 from Whiteflash would be best. Also, would it be worth waiting for something like the BN stone or are the differences going to be minor? I don''t know how fast inventories turn over in the business so I''m not sure I have the time to spare.

Thanks for reading!
Thel

 

[stone-cold11]

I would wait for the numbers for the WF VSB stone to be in, could be good.

 

[FB.]

Diamonds with very strong fluorescence seem to have a slower turnover because consumers are wary of the unknown and are guided away from strong fluor by sales people and scare stories of cloudy/murky/oily appearance. In fairness, if you don't know how the receiver of the gift will react to strong flour, it would be better to have none/negligible/faint. After all; most people buy a diamond for it's sparkle and not it's ability to have a body colour. Not that I have anything against fluoro diamonds - it's just that not all diamond lovers will like them.
Non-flour stones are a safe option, so are easier to sell.

It's common that if you contact a seller regarding a stone, they will take the stone off the market for a few days and put it "on hold" for you, while your questions are answered. Just don't expect them to hold it for more than a few days without good reason. Ask the seller if their policy is to hold a stone for you, while you think about it.

Regarding the HCA scores; HCA is not the final word on diamond cut. Some diamonds with slight variations in their minor proportions (e.g. star facet %, lower girdle facet %, rounding-off of angles 0.5 crown>) can turn out to be better or worse than you think. I have a diamond that only scores about 4 on HCA and would be considered "steep-deep" - yet somehow it's other minor-facet proportions actually make it an attractive stone with no visible light anomalies/no darkness of the table that would be expected of such a "steep-deep".

If you're really wanting fluorescence, I'd shortlist the two very strong fluor stones, which will ensure that you get plenty of lilac colour.
If you shortlist the "strong fluor" stones, just how strong is the fluor?
Strong means more than medium but less than very strong.
Beware that you're not getting a diamond that scored "strong" because it was just a little stronger than "medium".
If you go for "very strong", you can be sure that it's at least a little more than "strong" and much more than "medium".

I quite like the idea of the smaller-tabled 0.54/H/SI1/very strong/$950 stone - pending approval of the crown and pavilion angles.

 

[thelvyn123]

Thanks again for the thoughtful response FB. I haven''t confirmed the proportions of the 0.54 H SI1 with Whiteflash yet but I believe I found the same diamond for sale on BN and the angles look good.

Crown: 34.5
Pavilion: 40.8

I think I''m going to go with this since fluoresence is very high on my list and your point regarding the variability of strong fluorescence makes a lot of sense. The stats aren''t quite as nice as the BN stone I originally had my eyes on but I suppose I save almost $200

. I''ll probably place the order sometime next week and I''ll try to post pictures as soon as it gets here

Thanks all!