Help! Should I return my expensive AGS diamond

[mrs-b]

Hi @azuredragon

AGS is stricter on cut. And an AGS cert is worth a LOT in the US - especially by those who know a bit about diamonds.

But I agree that AGS can be softer on color (not clarity). Over recent years, AGS has apparently tried to tighten their grading so they're more in line with GIA, but from my own experience, I'd say there are still a lot of diamonds slipping through which are warmer than what their grading suggests.

I've had a bunch (over 10) AGS graded stones, and I'd say about half of them were warmer than I would have expected - and one of them was MUCH warmer than it should have been. I still prefer AGS grading for cut, but I now keep it in the colorless range (D-F) if I'm looking for a truly white stone.

However, since 000 AGS stones tend to give such great light return, I would have thought any color issues, or side tint, would have been addressed by your halo. Halos often look whiter than their center stone, as smaller stones tend to reflect more white light, and this will always be the case; a lot of the difference you're seeing is just from looking at larger faceting.

So, moving on to your specific diamond: it has wonderful stats and the faceting is beautiful. I think it's a GORGEOUS stone and, while it's a G not a D, it's a solidly white stone and VERY clean. In a halo it will have real kapow! I think you made some great choices and have a beautiful ring.

Re your friends - people tend to think the tools they use, and the things with which they're familiar, are better. It's not lying - it's just an inbuilt unconscious bias that colors how we see things. Your friends are wrong on various points (a) the value of an AGS cert b) AGS has superior cut grading c) AGS is not weaker in clarity grading) - and they may also be wrong on this specific diamond not equalling a GIA G color, as AGS has tightened their parameters. So all that to say - there's not enough significance to their comments to be worrisome. I'd go with your eyes on this and trust what you see. However, if YOU think it's too tinted, switch it out for a GIA G with equally good stats - or even something in the colorless range; that's a pain in the neck to have to do, but it's not all that difficult.

Good luck!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

It is helpful to think about grading by the top tier labs in context. GIA, having invented the basic grading system used by labs everywhere, is by far the biggest and most widely respected lab in the world. Like other labs their grading of color and clarity (and flouro) is done human graders, and grades are small ranges on a continuum and subject to human interpretation. Yet, the GIA grade is considered accurate. Even though, because of the very nature of this grading, it is possible for diamonds to be submitted twice to GIA and get different grades.

Now consider that AGS graded diamonds are often sent to GIA for confirmation, yet rarely the other way around. Now consider that the public rarely hears about the stones that are graded the same (it’s not news), and there is little reason for a consumer to complain about getting an upgrade from GIA. That leaves us with those cases where the GIA grade is lower that are publicly dissected, leading some in the market to believe that AGS is “softer”. But is that a valid conclusion? Especially considering it is in the interest of vendors selling primarily GIA stones to amplify and perpetuate that belief - such as the advice given to the OP by two jewelers.

Since we sell both GIA and AGS graded diamonds we see a broader picture that suggests a high degree of alignment between the two. In most cases they agree completely. In some cases there is a one grade difference in either color or clarity. And it can fall either way. In a few cases we have seen a grade lower in color counterbalanced by a grade higher in clarity, and vice versa. Which certainly begs the question, which is the "accurate" grade?

Unfortunately this does create confusion and doubt in the minds of consumers since prices are closely tied to lab grades. But, if you understand the context of lab grading it is possible to evaluate a purchase in a holistic way by knowing the benefits and limitations associated with the value proposition being offered, including the particular lab report done on the diamond.

 

[LightBright]

I looked at your Superideal AGS graded “G” on the James Allen website. To me, it looks slightly more saturated in tone than this Superideal GIA graded “G” from James Allen. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5919461

It could be more saturated, it could have a slightly different tint. Pure yellow tints make diamonds look lighter than tints with a slight green or brown, for example.

The only thing that matters is if you feel like the price you paid for this stone matches your expectations for color (cut, clarity and size).

In other words, do you love your diamond enough to spend $14k on it?

I personally am very sensitive to color. I didn’t realize this until I bought a beautifully cut HCA 1.3 GIA G color diamond that looked yellow to me. Golden yellow, not lemony yellow. It must have been one of those low Gs. There is another thread on Rockytalky right now where someone bought an ACA Superideal AGS G and it looked to “experts” like an H-I. You can read about what the OP decided. This is a COMMON thing here that I’ve seen over and over for people to buy a G color (GIA and AGS) diamond and be surprised that it’s more tinted than they wished.

Honestly, I sometimes wonder if maybe the certifying labs IN GENERAL are getting softer on color grading. There have been recent discussions about how the labs are getting softer on clarity grading, such that some Superideal cutters are not being able to find acceptable SI2 rough. To me, why wouldn’t labs be getting softer on color, if they are getting softer on clarity. Maybe the professionals can comment on whether todays’s “G” is yesterday’s “H”.

In any case, I am someone who loves a colorless diamond. I understand why people would say the Superideal cut will override color, and as someone who owns a Superideal AGS E, I can barely tell what color it is and feel the CUT would be just as stunning in a slightly lower color. But when you’ve got an obviously tinted face up stone, as evidenced by your photo, I would ask yourself is this environmental reflection, or is this just a yellower stone than I want.

I wouldn’t get your stone regraded unless you are concerned about resale and you want to keep it. AGS -could- be softer on color grading and therefore called this stone a G when it is actually an H. If you regrade, your stone could be a low G that would be also be determined a G by GIA. Or, your stone could be regraded as a GIA H. In any case it doesn’t matter to how you feel about the color, right?

If you want my opinion, I would say, return the stone to James Allen if you don’t like the color. See if you can find a whiter Superideal stone (GIA F, GIA high G) for your beautiful setting. You could try your wholesaler friends using Pricescope knowledge. You could also see if JA has a whiter stone. Jann Paul is very well regarded and might be a more local option. I think sticking to Superideal is a great idea, but you will have to go down in clarity to keep price where you are now. I have an eye clean SI1 E CBI and do not notice any clarity issues at all. YMMV. Good luck.

 

[partgypsy]

If I was you I would be happy with the stone you have and leave as is. But, if you are concerned that the stone is lower in color than it states on the report and therefore paid more than you should, then have it unmounted and re-graded again by GIA. It is an additional expense, but at least it would hopefully give you objective information to use in deciding whether or not to keep the stone. My only caveat, is when you get the report yes it may differ in either the clarity or color from the AGS report. I would only return if there was a significant, (not just minimal) difference in the value of the diamond based on that GIA report.

 

[azuredragon]

Hi All,

Firstly, thanks so much to all of you for your detailed replies and very helpful advice. I was away on a trip for a few days and wanted to take a look at my diamond again before posting. I can't reply to everyone individually here but I will touch on a few points.

I feel much more comfortable now about the diamond I chose than before. I didn't think about getting a diamond dual-certified by GIA previously - knowing I can do so gives me peace of mind in case of a possible resell scenario. I probably won't do it right now though because I don't think they can certify it before my return period is over and I also don't intend to re-sell the ring (and more importantly, I don't think my girlfriend cares).

As for my previous comments on the color, I think the color is "good enough" for me. I took the advice a few posters mentioned about trying the ring out in different environments, and I can't notice the color, or it appears whiter, in other settings. My bedroom does use yellow light so my guess is the diamond picked up the color from there. And as all of you talked about before, the light performance is pretty amazing. I didn't have a chance to compare to it other people's stones but I'm more than happy with it.

I did speak with one of my jeweller friends, while he still insists that AGS certs are terrible I'm not too worried anymore since I always get it dual-certified. I asked about ASET/Idealscope images and Holloway cut advisors and said I was overthinking this, and that HCA is a marketing gimmick. I think his points are valid for most people who don't emphasize cut as much as I do.

I still haven't made a decision on whether to return it or not, but I likely won't. If I do end up returning it, it will be because I spent too much money and I want to downgrade on cut, size and clarity a notch (e.g. something like a H VS2 1.4 carat as opposed to the G VS1 1.54 carat I actually got, while still retaining a superb cut) to find something in the USD 10-12k range as opposed to the USD 15-16k I actually spent (with setting price included). I'm by nature a quite frugal person so although I can afford this ring, it still feels psychologically uncomfortable to spend this much money on a piece of jewellery. I do know girlfriend wants something nice, but she'll probably be happy with whatever choice I make anyway. Like all of you mentioned, diamond hunting really requires some thoughtful compromises.

Again, thank you all for your very detailed and insightful replies! It definitely helped me with my decision making.

AzureDragon

 

[mrs-b]

Hi All,

I did speak with one of my jeweller friends, while he still insists that AGS certs are terrible I'm not too worried anymore since I always get it dual-certified. I asked about ASET/Idealscope images and Holloway cut advisors and said I was overthinking this, and that HCA is a marketing gimmick. I think his points are valid for most people who don't emphasize cut as much as I do.

I still haven't made a decision on whether to return it or not, but I likely won't. If I do end up returning it, it will be because I spent too much money and I want to downgrade on cut, size and clarity a notch (e.g. something like a H VS2 1.4 carat as opposed to the G VS1 1.54 carat I actually got, while still retaining a superb cut) to find something in the USD 10-12k range as opposed to the USD 15-16k I actually spent (with setting price included). I'm by nature a quite frugal person so although I can afford this ring, it still feels psychologically uncomfortable to spend this much money on a piece of jewellery. I do know girlfriend wants something nice, but she'll probably be happy with whatever choice I make anyway. Like all of you mentioned, diamond hunting really requires some thoughtful compromises.

Again, thank you all for your very detailed and insightful replies! It definitely helped me with my decision making.

AzureDragon

Please stay with the ring you have. While we all have to live within a budget, you've already said you can afford it, and this isn't really the place to be cutting corners. And do remember, she, not you, has to wear this for the rest of her life, so do try to get her the best ring you can. Your attitude to jewelry isn't really relevant here as it's not you who will be receiving it or wearing it. Frugality is something we need to apply to the things we want - it's not something we can impose on others, and choosing your fiancee's engagement ring to be frugal about is a big mistake. I'm sure there are things you think are worth spending money on that she doesn't, so please take her dreams into account here and be generous.

ETA Your friend's comment about AGS grading being 'terrible' is just ridiculous - either utterly uninformed or purposely misleading. Instead of taking his OR our word for this, do some research; it will put your mind at rest. 'Terrible'?? Seriously - I am shaking my head here....

 

[stonewell]

Just wanted to echo @Mrs-b’s comments and that you’ve gotten some fantastic advice overall. I think you found a gorgeous stone and should keep it as is.

I can also understand the drive to be frugal and to get the best value for the money. However, downgrading your spend by the amount you listed isn’t that significant of a savings when you consider it over the years of enjoyment and wear you receive in exchange.

Also, I’ll share with you what my DH told me when I was fretting over an upgrade for my ring - I had told him I didn’t want to spend so much on a piece of jewelry as well. He said he wasn’t spending it on the jewelry... he was spending it on me, his wife.

 

[mrs-b]

Just wanted to echo @Mrs-b’s comments and that you’ve gotten some fantastic advice overall. I think you found a gorgeous stone and should keep it as is.

I can also understand the drive to be frugal and to get the best value for the money. However, downgrading your spend by the amount you listed isn’t that significant of a savings when you consider it over the years of enjoyment and wear you receive in exchange.

Also, I’ll share with you what my DH told me when I was fretting over an upgrade for my ring - I had told him I didn’t want to spend so much on a piece of jewelry as well. He said he wasn’t spending it on the jewelry... he was spending it on me, his wife.

 

[srke]

The jeweller friend who is poo pooing your stone, can he show you the gia alternatives with similar specs that he thinks are better? If he is able to get you a cheaper GIA unicorn that performs just as well as the AGS in real world lighting, then why not? In the end it is not about the cert but how the stone itself is .You can always get something re-certed elsewhere.

But i suspect if he's actually asked to put his money where his mouth is, you're mostly going to get some not as well cut stones that face up smaller or don't perform as well.

 

[sledge]

I did speak with one of my jeweller friends, while he still insists that AGS certs are terrible I'm not too worried anymore since I always get it dual-certified. I asked about ASET/Idealscope images and Holloway cut advisors and said I was overthinking this, and that HCA is a marketing gimmick. I think his points are valid for most people who don't emphasize cut as much as I do.

LOL, I think this says it all right here.

I guess if you are selling cut crap stones then perhaps I'd think HCA was a marketing gimmick too. And I may even believe (or at least want to) that AGS certs, ASET images and idealscope images are terrible too. After all, these tools would prove my stones wasn't so great after all.

But you know, they have a GIA cert so that clearly makes it all better....

 

[bmfang]

I’ve said it before, and I will say it again.

Your “friend” is spouting 100% certified BS. Sorry, not certified. 100% graded BS.

 

[kmoro]

If AGS and HCA are bunk, perhaps he can compare diamonds with other specifications to prove the point. Have him pull some GIA XXXs that have non-ideal parameters and compare them to your blinding AGS stone. Please don’t do the comparison in multi-directional lighting as it makes all cuts look good.

For sure if your friend puts down ASET, H&A, and Idealscope images, it’s because those images offer hard proof of cut/light performance and he wouldn’t want his crappy GIA XXX diamonds ‘overthought’ like that, lol.

When someone “poo-poos” science, it really speaks volumes about their expertise - or the lack of it. In fact, at this point, I would wonder if your friend is really a jeweller. *shrug*

I think you have a beautiful diamond!

 

[Double E]

Hi @azuredragon,

I am also from HK. I followed this thread & think that we are lucky to receive many useful and correct comments from this community including those big names in the industry. If we spend some more time to research, which you may have already done, I believe you would probably notice that we are often able to speak with some of the most knowledgeable professions. Can you imagine if we can achieve this shopping in jewelry stores in HK or hunting stone with the assistance of the mentioned jeweler friends in HK?

While being respectful to your friends in the industry, I agree with other posters here and regret to say that their comments on your stone choice may be very likely due to their lack of knowledge on the global diamond industry. Sadly this could be a common situation in HK.

A friend of mine is also looking for a engagement ring at the moment and is told similar stuffs that 3 x Ex = everything, I am also trying to assist.

 

[kmoro]

Hi @azuredragon,

I am also from HK. I followed this thread & think that we are lucky to receive many useful and correct comments from this community including those big names in the industry. If we spend some more time to research, which you may have already done, I believe you would probably notice that we are often able to speak with some of the most knowledgeable professions. Can you imagine if we can achieve this shopping in jewelry stores in HK or hunting stone with the assistance of the mentioned jeweler friends in HK?

While being respectful to your friends in the industry, I agree with other posters here and regret to say that their comments on your stone choice may be very likely due to their lack of knowledge on the global diamond industry. Sadly this could be a common situation in HK.

A friend of mine is also looking for a engagement ring at the moment and is told similar stuffs that 3 x Ex = everything, I am also trying to assist.

You can get a GIA super ideal with the right vendor .... I think Good Old Gold could find one for you I believe GOG has GIA stones in-house that can be vetted for super ideal spec’s and performance. Not sure what their policies are in regard to return and upgrade though ... will have to check that out some time.

Edit: here are the policies - pretty good!




GOOD OLD GOLD'S - DIAMOND POLICIES* as of 8/2018
(Trade Up and Buy Back options)
Diamonds that are included in these policies will be noted on their individual web page. If the policies expressed on an individual diamond web page differ from the policies detailed here, those policies will supersede these policies.



DIAMOND TRADE-UP POLICY*
There are two options available with our Trade-Up policy. For both options, you will receive 100% credit of the original purchase price towards your new diamond purchase.

• Option 1 – If you would like to trade up to a diamond owned by Good Old Gold, there is no required amount to spend towards your new purchase but the new diamond must be of equal or greater value then the originally purchased diamond.
  
• Option 2 - If you would like to trade up to a diamond that is not owned by Good Old Gold you must spend double the amount of your original diamond purchase and the new diamond must be selected by Good Old Gold.

The same payment method must be used for both purchases. Once a diamond is traded up there are no refunds or Buyback Policy and you can only use the Trade-Up policies from that point on. All policies are clearly communicated before the purchase of the diamond.

To find Good Old Gold’s owned diamonds in a web search, click “TRADE-UP DIAMONDS” on the advanced search page.


DIAMOND BUY-BACK POLICY*
If you purchase a diamond with our Buy-Back Policy, and you wish to sell your diamond at any time within the first year of purchase, Good Old Gold will buy your diamond back at 70% of your original purchase price.
All policies are clearly communicated before the purchase of the diamond.