Help understanding sapphire coloring

[qwertysmay]

Hi all!
I recently purchased a ring sold to me as Montana sky- if I'm remembering correctly. I really like the color and the shape. I know nothing about jewelry but knew I wanted something colored and durable for everyday wear (wedding ring). The owner of the pawn shop who sold me the ring was very kind, patient, information and honest in my opinion. She didn't push the sale on me at all just brought the ring out from the back based on questions I had asked. I like the stone don't love the band so bought with intention to change it

Today I went to the Shane Co to look at bands but was told the stone wasn't testing as a natural sapphire but a simulant and bc of this its possible it would break when resetting. One thing the associate pointed out was that the edges are very clear.
After this I took it to an independent (?) jeweler to get a second opinion. While the owner told me he didn't have any way of testing it he was 99% sure it was not a sapphire agreeing about the sides and saying something about the facets. He stated it likely had a color coating that would fade over time and while it could have been a colored/treated topaz it likely wasn't a natural stone at all

I reached out to the original seller and she let me know I was welcome to come in to see how they test and go from there. While I appreciate this I really have no idea on what any of these test results would mean.
Are these two jewelers wrong and simply uninformed about this type of color/stone or is the owner who is confident in her results?

I'm looking at local gemologist and wanted to get thoughts in the meantime

 

[LilAlex]

Hi and welcome! And congratulations!

Whole can of worms there. Pretty ring but you will need an actual report from a reputable lab to identify that stone with confidence.

I would not accept the word of a pawn shop owner or a local jeweler about the identity of a blue stone. "Testers" can not discriminate between a genuine or synthetic sapphire, for example, since they are both, chemically, sapphire. You'd need a microscope and trained eye to say for sure. Even natural sapphires can be adulterated in any number of ways to increase the clarity and enhance the blue color.

About the metal, are there any hallmarks on the ring -- like gold purity (e.g., 14K) or maker's mark? They may even be underneath the sizer -- not sure if you added that. Pawn shop would typically remove that so buyers can see any hallmarks. I'm not convinced it's gold -- the "make" looks skimpy and stamped when viewed from the inside. In terms of how concerned to be, it would help to know what you paid, approximately, and whether it's returnable.

From what I have seen on this forum, the folks who browse pawn shops generally know what they're looking for and are pretty well-versed in determining whether something looks period-correct and well-made vs. a recent mass-produced knock-off. Others here will weigh in.

 

[Bron357]

Hi,
If the gemstone is set it’s difficult to do normal testing that helps ascertain type. Tests such as specific gravity (different gens have different relative weights for size) and refractive index (different gems bend light differently and that can be calculated). Obviously looking under a microscope can help as certain inclusions are more prevalent in sapphire than say topaz.
A lot of jewellers and pawnbrokers, rightly or wrongly, can use a Presidium gem tester which works on the heat transfer rate of the gem. Such a machine can definitely tell if it is Topaz or Sapphire but it can’t tell if it’s natural sapphire vs lab grown and it can’t tell what treatments the gem has undergone.
When buying any gemstone you have to rely on the experience and integrity of the seller. A seller might outright lie, have relied on their supplier and/or have no idea of what they say is right or wrong. Which is why you need to deal with sellers who are proven both knowledgeable and with reliable suppliers.
What you could have is a doublet, as in a sliver of gemstone glued, literally, to another material usually clear quartz. I actually bought, many years ago, some earrings that have a slice of emerald on top of quartz. It makes a gem big enough to set and looks totally normal face down. If you view the side profile under a loupe you can see that there’s a green part and a clear part. If I were to test the “top part” I would get a different result than the bottom part ie different materials.

 

[Gloria27]

IMO That stone looks weird, doesn't hold its colour from all angles, might be a composite/doublet or it might be coated. The colour is not typical for sapphires.

 

[qwertysmay]

Hi and welcome! And congratulations!

Whole can of worms there. Pretty ring but you will need an actual report from a reputable lab to identify that stone with confidence.

I would not accept the word of a pawn shop owner or a local jeweler about the identity of a blue stone. "Testers" can not discriminate between a genuine or synthetic sapphire, for example, since they are both, chemically, sapphire. You'd need a microscope and trained eye to say for sure. Even natural sapphires can be adulterated in any number of ways to increase the clarity and enhance the blue color.

About the metal, are there any hallmarks on the ring -- like gold purity (e.g., 14K) or maker's mark? They may even be underneath the sizer -- not sure if you added that. Pawn shop would typically remove that so buyers can see any hallmarks. I'm not convinced it's gold -- the "make" looks skimpy and stamped when viewed from the inside. In terms of how concerned to be, it would help to know what you paid, approximately, and whether it's returnable.

From what I have seen on this forum, the folks who browse pawn shops generally know what they're looking for and are pretty well-versed in determining whether something looks period-correct and well-made vs. a recent mass-produced knock-off. Others here will weigh in.

Hii! And thank you, thank you, thank you!! <3 Yes, it seems I will need a report. It looks like I have a couple gem labs not too far from me I will contact.

There are markings on the band- I can't quite make it out. I guess I need a microscope myself lol but I think it says GRP and it is stamped as 10K which I knew bc it was marked as such. I will say, I asked the second jeweler if the diamonds were real and he said they were- just that they were single cut ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I did ask the pawn shop owner to add the sizer haha for 2 reasons: 1. she told me to wait until summer to have it resized bc my fingers will swell. 2. as i said, i'm not sure I love the band so I was gonna wait to spend more money on it but wanted to get the feel of wearing a ring in the meantime.


So, I totally understand your point about trust/confidence in a pawn shop owner. My experience was like this: I'm already married, don't really wear jewelry but husband stated he wanted to buy me a ring. Ok! I'll just do like a dainty band no stone just something simple. Husband shares he wants it to be a bit more. Ok, no problem; I love cute things! But, I don't like clear or solitaire rings that much. Also, I'm very much a clearance shopper. Let's go to the pawn shop for something unique, colored, and cheap This was one of the first places I went and had a good time. I liked this Le Vian ring most at first but they also had a pink stone ring I loved more. And, they were truthful the pink stone was probably a CZ; I was just paying for the gold. But, all other parties told me it looked like a little girls ring. So while i *did* like the Le Vian I was stuck on pink and then went home and read on Le Vian- couldn't quite make my mind up on if it was worth $500 bc people were saying it wouldn't last.
So, in regards to this ring, i bought it bc i liked the color (it also has some pink in it- fabricated or not lol), the shape but I also asked about the hardness of the stone bc I'm pretty heavy handed and wanted something durable. There was a lovely emerald about the same price but she explained to me it was very brittle and easily damaged.
Oh, but, what was going to say was another pawn shop straight up told me they don't even know anything about the stones they're just selling the gold. At this one, the owner offered info on each stone (when asked). When I mentioned this she told me yes it's true but bc she had been taking classes.
So, all in all, Idek if i'm upset that the stone itself may be fake or just bc it doesn't have the qualities of a sapphire we discussed and seems like it may not be able to reset.
Price $398 after taxes
Return policy: store credit or exchange within 30 days
I did reach out and ask if a refund was possible given the misinfo and this was her response : "Hi ____! Thank you for the kind words—I’m really glad you had a great experience with us.I’d be happy to take another look at the ring with you. If you’re able to bring it in, I can show you the test results we use to identify stones and explain why we labeled it a sapphire at the time of sale. It is likely a treated sapphire, as most gemstones on the market are treated in some way to enhance their appearance.We definitely want you to feel confident in your purchase. If it turns out there’s been a mistake, we’ll absolutely make it right within our policies. Let’s take a look together and go from there."

 

[qwertysmay]

Hi,
If the gemstone is set it’s difficult to do normal testing that helps ascertain type. Tests such as specific gravity (different gens have different relative weights for size) and refractive index (different gems bend light differently and that can be calculated). Obviously looking under a microscope can help as certain inclusions are more prevalent in sapphire than say topaz.
A lot of jewellers and pawnbrokers, rightly or wrongly, can use a Presidium gem tester which works on the heat transfer rate of the gem. Such a machine can definitely tell if it is Topaz or Sapphire but it can’t tell if it’s natural sapphire vs lab grown and it can’t tell what treatments the gem has undergone.
When buying any gemstone you have to rely on the experience and integrity of the seller. A seller might outright lie, have relied on their supplier and/or have no idea of what they say is right or wrong. Which is why you need to deal with sellers who are proven both knowledgeable and with reliable suppliers.
What you could have is a doublet, as in a sliver of gemstone glued, literally, to another material usually clear quartz. I actually bought, many years ago, some earrings that have a slice of emerald on top of quartz. It makes a gem big enough to set and looks totally normal face down. If you view the side profile under a loupe you can see that there’s a green part and a clear part. If I were to test the “top part” I would get a different result than the bottom part ie different materials.

Wow, that's def a lot of possible wrong or right or partial information available Thank you for explaining all of that. When/if I decide to really invest in a piece I will definitely have to do that. I read a few reddit forums and discovered not every stone will hold up to my lifestyle and really thought I knew something haha But, of course, there is much more to it than that and I will just have to be more diligent about purchases in the future if that's what I am valuing.

 

[qwertysmay]

IMO That stone looks weird, doesn't hold its colour from all angles, might be a composite/doublet or it might be coated. The colour is not typical for sapphires.

The color shifting was actually one of the things I liked about it BC i had originally asked if they had any alexandrite (not knowing how rare it was just that it changed colors and was cute) she ended up bringing this out since it has different colors based on lighting. And, I did read that the stones mined are heat treated to change color but didn't notice the clear sides nor would I have even known it could have been indicative of anything. But, anyways, I appreciate your input. Thank you!

 

[Gloria27]

The color shifting was actually one of the things I liked about it BC i had originally asked if they had any alexandrite (not knowing how rare it was just that it changed colors and was cute) she ended up bringing this out since it has different colors based on lighting. And, I did read that the stones mined are heat treated to change color but didn't notice the clear sides nor would I have even known it could have been indicative of anything. But, anyways, I appreciate your input. Thank you!

That's not what I mean, I mean the shade of blue is more like Topaz than Sapphire.
Topaz is known to be coated to become different colours.

I have a colour shift sapphire and it holds colour from all angles, the shift happens with the light temperature not the angle.

Some sapphires can have colour zoning and can be totally colourless in some areas and they get their colour from a spec of colour that is reflected in the facets (bounced around) and makes it look all blue for example. It's a thing with sapphires.

To me, this doesn't look like a Sapphire, the colour is too neon. It's a pretty ring tho', if it's gold you can always hunt for a better stone and change it at a later point.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I feel very strongly that is not a solid, natural sapphire. I have never seen one that color and I don’t mean that in a “wow how coool” way, I mean it in a “it’s not real” way.

For your budget, a ring with solid gold and natural gems would small stones closer to 5mm in size and a thin/dainty setting with less fold weight. A ring like that will hold its intrinsic value over time when bought at a pawn or scrap seller in my experience. I base this on my decades of buying at pawn sellers on eBay.

I’m also basing it on the overall look for the price paid. Given the low quality setting — which I bet could be gold plated not solid gold — I don’t think it’s worth the money you paid. I would press hard for a return. I understand you liked the seller. That doesn’t make them honest or knowledgeable unfortunately.

 

[Dreamer_D]

IS this the selection of rings you were choosing from in your $500 budget and were you were told these were natural gemstones in solid gold? Because that would be a huge red flag.

 

[qwertysmay]

IS this the selection of rings you were choosing from in your $500 budget and were you were told these were natural gemstones in solid gold? Because that would be a huge red flag.

No the pink I was told was probably cz and I was only paying for the gold. The purple is a le vian I think an amethyst? Idk but that one's info is still online and the blue one I don't even remember maybe a sapphire too. The little band I don't remember I just like it so much. But these weren't all near $500 the le vian was $459 I think the pink was in the one or two hundreds

 

[qwertysmay]

That's not what I mean, I mean the shade of blue is more like Topaz than Sapphire.
Topaz is known to be coated to become different colours.

I have a colour shift sapphire and it holds colour from all angles, the shift happens with the light temperature not the angle.

Some sapphires can have colour zoning and can be totally colourless in some areas and they get their colour from a spec of colour that is reflected in the facets (bounced around) and makes it look all blue for example. It's a thing with sapphires.

To me, this doesn't look like a Sapphire, the colour is too neon. It's a pretty ring tho', if it's gold you can always hunt for a better stone and change it at a later point.

Thank you! So I went back to the pawn shop and was told it could be a lab created sapphire and they showed me their tool that tests diamonds and sapphire. It went sapphire on this and diamonds on my moms diamond. I then called Shane co to ask what test they did. They said the girl used the wrong tool- a diamond tester only be the one that tests sapphires too was broken but that their jeweler did say it seemed to be coated in something. She likened this to how they used to put gold on the back of diamonds. So, now, I think I will either ask if they can provide paperwork for it or just exchange it be I always wanted a new band. The whole ordeal is definitely new territory. Without paying for a lab test myself I'll just never know. The owners are pretty confident it is a sapphire but the main jewelry girl wasn't there. I'm just gonna go for a band I like this time and worry about a stone later when I'm willing to invest more

 

[Dreamer_D]

Good plan.

 

[Bron357]

Excellent idea.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with lab grown gemstones they are identical to natural BUT you want to pay lab grown price, which isn’t much.
For an every day wearing ring your best choices are diamond, Moissanite, sapphire and lab sapphire.
Other gems like Topaz, Garnet and Amethyst are usually ok but softer.
Gems like emerald, tanzanite and opal definitely require more mindful wearing being either brittle ie chipping or soft ie scratching over time and not recommended for everyday everywhere wear.
Don’t forget that the more you know and the more you see the better you will be able to identify a great buy from an ok buy to a bad buy.
We all love a great buy but it needs to be learnt and earnt.
Don’t worry, all of us here made mistakes early on in our loving gemstones journey. I still get a giggle out of my “Spessartite garnet” ring which was actually lab sapphire. Back then I didn’t even know sapphires came in Orange ha ha.
And I love the ring no less btw.