Help with blue sapphire ring

[voce]

@qubitasaurus I thought BE could be treated with FTIR, which according to the lab report (if it's authentic), was performed by AIGS.

 

[icy_jade]

I think BE treatment has to be under heat so unheated sapphire should be ok in that sense? I thought I read that somewhere before...

 

[icy_jade]

Yes the setting is atrocious isn't it!

The setting reminds me of a spider!! If the stone was in a nicer setting I think I would have gotten it by now as I love the color (even heated and all). I still admire the stone every time I visit the store.

I think the mixed responses you are getting are because no one can make an informed judgement, so you are currently surveying people's risk tolerance -- the price is very good, it looks great but it carries some risk due to the essentially no feasible way to return it if you don't like it.

Great summary! Ok I do have a certain risk tolerance as can be seen by me getting an included indicolite from Therealreal. Probably if I can’t stop thinking about it then I should go for it (assuming it’s still available since I’ve lost so many items by sitting on the decision).

And I’ll try to rem to ask about BE testing next time I go. Else as mentioned I think unheated means can’t be BE treated.

 

[T L]

LIBS doesn’t even suffice for testing all
sapphires. From what I understand, some diffusion needs to be tested at incredibly small particle levels, so a mass spectrometer is then necessary. AGL has access to one, as they are extremely expensive machines. Most labs can’t afford an LiBS, let alone a mass spectrometer.

 

[T L]

The setting reminds me of a spider!! If the stone was in a nicer setting I think I would have gotten it by now as I love the color (even heated and all). I still admire the stone every time I visit the store.



Great summary! Ok I do have a certain risk tolerance as can be seen by me getting an included indicolite from Therealreal. Probably if I can’t stop thinking about it then I should go for it (assuming it’s still available since I’ve lost so many items by sitting on the decision).

And I’ll try to rem to ask about BE testing next time I go. Else as mentioned I think unheated means can’t be BE treated.

Correct, if the stone is unheated, it’s not diffused. Just be careful the report matches the stone. It’s more difficult to tell with set stones.

I thought spider instantly when I saw that setting.

 

[AV_]

And I remember that I saw a cornflower recently. Here is a 7 carat GRS certified unheated cornflower blue I saw at my jeweller a few weeks ago. I can’t rem the price as it’s some traumatic 5 digit pricing.



Looks rather dark doesn’t it? Is probably better under normal lighting as it’s under orangey lighting which I always think doesn’t help blue/cool toned gems. Didn’t dare to take it out of the store though so I don’t have other pics.

The colour I am seeing on my screen does not make me curious to see this in person; why even talk of price.

I sure do trust identification of heat teratment & the few others (fillers not involving heating), and for colour would compare with beautiful natural objects some color is associated with (it helps that everything has color variations - much like crystals do too, so this wisdom is there in the reference), not color philosophy (a contact sport that is not a pelasure)

I cannot know what the stone you are considering looks like in person, but it is tempting - the colour is happy and a little violet zoning suggests that this is violet-blue, not grayish/greenish blue. If anything, the pictrues are too beautiful. If return is not possible, I would wish for a video in natural light, without any special magnification - a hand shot as we do them here too.

 

[T L]

Again, if return is not possible, that’s a huge red flag to me that something doesn’t add up, I understand some private individuals that are selling gems to make a little money, like on LT, and even then many of them will give a refund if the stone was not as advertised. However, a jewelry vendor with no refunds? That spooks me, I’m sorry.

 

[AV_]

@T L Providing a lab report might seem courtesy enough to them...

I am wishing for realistic images - and this is fairly tall order, but going through a local intermediary is even nicer & I wonder if the transaction cost is warranted, if the service can even be had.

 

[deorwine]

My understanding is that "cornflower" isn't a real signifier -- it means whatever the person who uses it thinks it means (and not a bit more!). The sapphire in my avatar (which in RL is a shade lighter than the "cornflower" in your "Lotus" post) was sold to me as "too dark to be cornflower" -- the vendor had in mind, I think, a color more like the color of your sapphire in the OP. I love the color of the sapphire you showed (as far as I can tell in the pictures) and think it's amazing!

The other thing I'll say is that I've returned a LOT of sapphires over the years. A LOT. Sapphires are notorious for being shifty in different kinds of light, looking different even in different shades of sunlight (deep shade vs. light shade vs. cloudy vs. sunny), so pics can really only tell part of the story... But I'm also really picky. Why can't your third-party intermediary also return the ring if it doesn't turn out to be what you want?

 

[T L]

My understanding is that "cornflower" isn't a real signifier -- it means whatever the person who uses it thinks it means (and not a bit more!).

THANK YOU - this is what precisely why I detest metaphors to describe gem color.

 

[qubitasaurus]

The setting reminds me of a spider!! If the stone was in a nicer setting I think I would have gotten it by now as I love the color (even heated and all). I still admire the stone every time I visit the store.



Great summary! Ok I do have a certain risk tolerance as can be seen by me getting an included indicolite from Therealreal. Probably if I can’t stop thinking about it then I should go for it (assuming it’s still available since I’ve lost so many items by sitting on the decision).

And I’ll try to rem to ask about BE testing next time I go. Else as mentioned I think unheated means can’t be BE treated.

Maybe he can split the stone and the setting up? I think he has done it before. But I would feel guilty asking. As his exact comment on facebook about this particular stone was that it took months to collect the correct melee to make the setting. But for what it is worth that stone looks gorgeous. It feels a shame to give up on it without trying as hard as possible to see how it could work.

I will also follow up and ask about what tests Nanyang can do to detect diffusion. My impression was in line with TL's: that realistically it takes sophisticated equipment and not all labs have the tech. I have to confess I asked your jeweler if he had any blue sapphires several months ago, and he indicated he could source some. I need to go back and talk to him again, but a number of things have been holding me back -- mostly just too busy and overwhelemed with a killer year so far, but I also think I am still hung up on what Nanyang can reliably test for and what they can't. So I will take in a stone I would like them to test, and see if I can get some answers. Will let you know what I find out.

The AIGS certified stone is unheated -- so diffusion is automatically rulled out. It is quite pretty, I have high hopes for it. But it does carry some element of risk. I have a different take on this to others in this thread as living in Singapore I have no way to return stones to US based vendors without shipping them internationally with no postal insurance. If I buy from the recommended vendor list on this forum then returns are in most cases already impractical for me. I feel like if you are here and trying to shop online to expand your options (beyond the limited scope of what is available on a tiny island) then you dont have the luxury of saying you want a completely risk free transaction. At some stage you will have to confront a risk. Question is how much, and how much are you saving by increasing your exposure.

I love your tourmaline pendant by the way, I have thourghly enjoyed reading your adventure thread. All the pieces turned out so beautiful.

 

[icy_jade]

The colour I am seeing on my screen does not make me curious to see this in person; why even talk of price.

I sure do trust identification of heat teratment & the few others (fillers not involving heating), and for colour would compare with beautiful natural objects some color is associated with (it helps that everything has color variations - much like crystals do too, so this wisdom is there in the reference), not color philosophy (a contact sport that is not a pelasure)

I cannot know what the stone you are considering looks like in person, but it is tempting - the colour is happy and a little violet zoning suggests that this is violet-blue, not grayish/greenish blue. If anything, the pictrues are too beautiful. If return is not possible, I would wish for a video in natural light, without any special magnification - a hand shot as we do them here too.

Haven’t heard back from the store re more pics but it’s a holiday today so let’s see. I ordered something from the store before but I think pics are elsewhere. I’ll see if I can find.

My jeweler doesn’t take nice pics. Which is good since the stones are usually better looking in person.

 

[icy_jade]

Actually this being a brand new piece makes me much more suspicious. In my experience great deals are most often found with pre-loved pieces. Why would anyone sell a brand new piece for such a low price? I wonder if the real color is even lighter than the photos?

It’s possible... My jeweler sold this blue sapphire a little while back... price is Singapore dollars so it’s <$4k for a over 5 ct unheated sapphire.

 

[icy_jade]

Maybe he can split the stone and the setting up? I think he has done it before. But I would feel guilty asking. As his exact comment on facebook about this particular stone was that it took months to collect the correct melee to make the setting. But for what it is worth that stone looks gorgeous. It feels a shame to give up on it without trying as hard as possible to see how it could work.

I would have if it was an unheated stone as I really love the color. I went back to look for his comment and yeah agree is not so nice to ask.



Am trying to recollect why I like this sapphire in particular and whether it’s the color, or that it is glowy... could actually be the latter as I like glowy stones... or as described the “velvety effect”.

I will also follow up and ask about what tests Nanyang can do to detect diffusion. My impression was in line with TL's: that realistically it takes sophisticated equipment and not all labs have the tech. I have to confess I asked your jeweler if he had any blue sapphires several months ago, and he indicated he could source some. I need to go back and talk to him again, but a number of things have been holding me back -- mostly just too busy and overwhelemed with a killer year so far, but I also think I am still hung up on what Nanyang can reliably test for and what they can't. So I will take in a stone I would like them to test, and see if I can get some answers. Will let you know what I find out.

The AIGS certified stone is unheated -- so diffusion is automatically rulled out. It is quite pretty, I have high hopes for it. But it does carry some element of risk. I have a different take on this to others in this thread as living in Singapore I have no way to return stones to US based vendors without shipping them internationally with no postal insurance. If I buy from the recommended vendor list on this forum then returns are in most cases already impractical for me. I feel like if you are here and trying to shop online to expand your options (beyond the limited scope of what is available on a tiny island) then you dont have the luxury of saying you want a completely risk free transaction. At some stage you will have to confront a risk. Question is how much, and how much are you saving by increasing your exposure.

Ah I think he brings stones in for customers to view from his sources and then returns them if no demand. He also goes to GRS for the pricier gems so if you want a “better” cert you can ask.

I’m not willing to go the very pricey route so I’m willing to take some risk. I recently bought a pair of uncerted ruby earrings online that turned out to be heated Burmese rubies (very strong fluorescence). Very good deal for the price I paid so some bets do pay off.

I love your tourmaline pendant by the way, I have thourghly enjoyed reading your adventure thread. All the pieces turned out so beautiful.

Thanks! That’s nice to hear. I wasn’t sure who’s reading so I stopped updating that thread. I’ve bought so many stones since (omg when I think about it)...

 

[fenestrate]

It's a tough one because the price seems fair, yet the stone seems insufficiently saturated as per your initial instinct compared to the stone in the ring you love, though similar in tone. It will show nicely under a blue sky, but I feel it will wash out in other lighting conditions. Which is not to say it is not a fair price; it just may not be quite what you are looking for, and thence may not ultimately 'scratch the itch'. The setting is I feel around jewelryhoo standard with slightly better melee, around 4-500 worth and not more, so consider that also.

 

[qubitasaurus]

I would have if it was an unheated stone as I really love the color. I went back to look for his comment and yeah agree is not so nice to ask.



Am trying to recollect why I like this sapphire in particular and whether it’s the color, or that it is glowy... could actually be the latter as I like glowy stones... or as described the “velvety effect”.



Ah I think he brings stones in for customers to view from his sources and then returns them if no demand. He also goes to GRS for the pricier gems so if you want a “better” cert you can ask.

I’m not willing to go the very pricey route so I’m willing to take some risk. I recently bought a pair of uncerted ruby earrings online that turned out to be heated Burmese rubies (very strong fluorescence). Very good deal for the price I paid so some bets do pay off.



Thanks! That’s nice to hear. I wasn’t sure who’s reading so I stopped updating that thread. I’ve bought so many stones since (omg when I think about it)...

I love reading your threads. I think maybe you are talking me into going to see your jeweler again. As I love seeing his posts on facebook and if he takes bad photos then wow he must have some nice stuff . If he routinely brings things in then I can see myself as a kid in a candy store being able to look through his trove.

I will go see the lab anyway first -- I have always let someone else drop my stones off for me. I have never gone to see them myself. I foolishly thought this was more efficient. But it also leaves me very in the dark and less engaged with the situation. I am so slow right now, so I will let you know how I go with the lab (probably well after you have worked it out more efficiently for yourself ).

 

[icy_jade]

I love reading your threads. I think maybe you are talking me into going to see your jeweler again. As I love seeing his posts on facebook and if he takes bad photos then wow he must have some nice stuff . If he routinely brings things in then I can see myself as a kid in a candy store being able to look through his trove.

I will go see the lab anyway first -- I have always let someone else drop my stones off for me. I have never gone to see them myself. I foolishly thought this was more efficient. But it also leaves me very in the dark and less engaged with the situation. I am so slow right now, so I will let you know how I go with the lab (probably well after you have worked it out more efficiently for yourself ).

Wriston doesn’t have a large inventory so usually I check in with him if he has anything new. If yes and I’m interested then I will pop by. Like that day he sent me these:



So I was like ok I go and see monster stones (that’s a 15 ct spess on the left).

Re: lab I usually get the stores to send them in themselves as they get cheaper corporate rate. But if I bought from overseas then I’ll go in myself. Else “paiseh” to trouble them if you know what I mean. But can also be quite interesting to go and see. Like once I witnessed some traders arguing with Mr Zeng if the sapphire can be certed as pad color (no) and he also came out to tell me the indicolite is a paraiba which was nice.

 

[AV_]

I detest metaphors to describe gem color

I might agree they are something else than straihgt-up metrics, but more precise... in the sense of fit for purpose & to object...

 

[T L]

I might agree they are something else than straihgt-up metrics, but more precise... in the sense of fit for purpose & to object...

I think labs that use metaphors cater more to vendors than the consumer. Flowery language to describe gem color is ridiculous, but a sapphire sounds better described as “deep royal blue” instead of dark blue, moderately gray,

 

[chrono]

The second flashier sapphire ring your shared has stronger saturation so the colour looks richer and stands out. I'd rather have a slightly smaller stone with intense saturation over a larger stone with more watery colour.

You mentioned heated Burmese rubies. How much residue? The amount of residue (level of treatment) plays a strong role in pricing. With high enough heat, they can essentially "melt" the fissures back into a very clean looking ruby.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Wriston doesn’t have a large inventory so usually I check in with him if he has anything new. If yes and I’m interested then I will pop by. Like that day he sent me these:



So I was like ok I go and see monster stones (that’s a 15 ct spess on the left).

Re: lab I usually get the stores to send them in themselves as they get cheaper corporate rate. But if I bought from overseas then I’ll go in myself. Else “paiseh” to trouble them if you know what I mean. But can also be quite interesting to go and see. Like once I witnessed some traders arguing with Mr Zeng if the sapphire can be certed as pad color (no) and he also came out to tell me the indicolite is a paraiba which was nice.

The spessartite has a lovely glow. I am actually looking forward to seeing the lab, I hear a lot of good things about them.

 

[icy_jade]

Haven’t heard back from the store re more pics but it’s a holiday today so let’s see. I ordered something from the store before but I think pics are elsewhere. I’ll see if I can find.

Ok found pics! So I order a 9.3 ct rose zircon pendant from the same store before. The vendor pic is awful and showed loads of extinction but I was still strangely drawn to the stone and got it... figured that the setting is probably worth quite a bit even if I hate the stone. Setting has about 0.6ct diamonds and it’s a huge pendant (wasn’t thinking small but mighty at that time)

Vendor pic:


And mine:
Pretty awful under office lights but in line with vendor pics...


But actually quite nice on the neck... think this was taken in the ladies.



So I would say the vendor pic was pretty accurate, at least from this one case.

 

[icy_jade]

It's a tough one because the price seems fair, yet the stone seems insufficiently saturated as per your initial instinct compared to the stone in the ring you love, though similar in tone. It will show nicely under a blue sky, but I feel it will wash out in other lighting conditions. Which is not to say it is not a fair price; it just may not be quite what you are looking for, and thence may not ultimately 'scratch the itch'. The setting is I feel around jewelryhoo standard with slightly better melee, around 4-500 worth and not more, so consider that also.

This is good input so thanks. Yeah I probably don’t want to buy multiple (big unheated) sapphires...

 

[icy_jade]

THANK YOU - this is what precisely why I detest metaphors to describe gem color.

I might agree they are something else than straihgt-up metrics, but more precise... in the sense of fit for purpose & to object...

I think labs that use metaphors cater more to vendors than the consumer. Flowery language to describe gem color is ridiculous, but a sapphire sounds better described as “deep royal blue” instead of dark blue, moderately gray,

Oops I actually like the descriptions... royal blue or pigeon blood tells me more than ‘blue’ or ‘red’ for example. I almost want to roll my eyes when I see “blue” on certs... like hey I can also tell it’s blue right? I want to know which shade of blue! I wished cs colors and clarity could be standardized like diamonds then it would be so much easier to buy gems, especially online when I’m not sure how accurate vendor pics are. No different from how many of us get diamonds from online vendors...

The second flashier sapphire ring your shared has stronger saturation so the colour looks richer and stands out. I'd rather have a slightly smaller stone with intense saturation over a larger stone with more watery colour.

That’s a heated sapphire. I love the color but I really want an unheated sapphire first...

You mentioned heated Burmese rubies. How much residue? The amount of residue (level of treatment) plays a strong role in pricing. With high enough heat, they can essentially "melt" the fissures back into a very clean looking ruby.

Initially I didn’t even want to cert the earrings but got curious after playing with them under uv. I nearly didn’t want to pay for origin to be stated but Burmese is good and the lab recommended. The local lab just stated heated but no mention re: residues... I probably should ask oops. But hey the preloved rubies are less than $800 so am not willing to spend more to find out...

It’s the super glowy pair in the uv light pic and the pair in front.

 

[AV_]

@T L I suspect I am not much of a spectrograph - but can see colours upon being presented with metaphor alone...

The sky now is my sapphire colour - one of the first such bright days this year .)

 

[qubitasaurus]

Hi icy_jade, I actually went to see Nanyang gem labs today and asked them about diffusion in sapphires (wow that did take me a while, but I thought maybe you might still be interested in the answer). They reassured me that they can test for Be diffusion. Although, I couldn't get a satisfying answer off them as to what kind of tests they were able to perform. They were however adamant that they could detect it. I am super jetlagged so didnt press the issue (after asking several times I let it go, I figured it could be my accent which was throwing them and they were moderately busy.).