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Help with RB diamond specs for upgrade

KristaME2

KristaME2

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Messages
10
My husband has agreed to upgrade the diamond in my engagement ring from a 1.3 ct to 2 - 2.5 ct. Its currently set in a Ritani modern collection setting with micropave diamonds. I like the setting and think it is very timeless, so I plan on setting the new stone in it for now and possibly setting it in a halo setting later.

Here are the specs of my current diamond:
1.30 Ct Round Brilliant
F Color
SI1 Clarity
Table 57.5%
Crown Height / Angle- 15%/35 deg
Pavilion Depth - 43% - 40.7 deg
Medium Faceted Girdle
Pointed Culet
Slight Florescence
Cut Grade - EX
Polish - EX
Symmetry - VG
Grading Lab: IGI

I'd like to go up in size and cut. I'm most interested in finding a stone that really sparkles. I'm ok with just an eye clean diamond as I won't be putting it under a loupe everyday. I'm questioning what to do about color. I do like it to face up white, but I find that depending on what lighting I'm in and what I'm wearing sometimes even at an F color it does look a little tinted (possibly reflecting colors around?? or I've also read on PS that IGI isn't the best at grading color). I did some research before buying this one, but not a whole lot, so I want the next diamond to be "the one."

What do you all suggest I look for in terms of specs and what lab to look for? We don't have a budget just yet, so I'm also trying to determine how much I should expect to spend. The chain we bought the setting and diamond from (Robbins Brothers) offers a trade up on a larger stone, so I will most likely go back to them to take advantage of this and give them very specific criteria to look for in a diamond to ensure I find what I want - is this a big mistake? My current stone was purchased in Dec 2008 and was just shy of $11k, and with their trade in I will get 110% of what I paid towards the purchase of a new diamond.

Pics were both taken under florescent lights at work (sorry for the dry, yucky hands)

img_382.jpg

img_0264.jpg
 
Your ring is gorgeous!!! What's the budget for the new stone? Also, I know you said you prefer sparkle more than anything else which I agree should be the first and foremost concern, but how do you feel about clarity and color? Would you rather stay with the specs you currently have? Or could you go down in color?

I'm not sure about the upgrade policy with Robbins and Brothers...Would you consider going with a different vendor? If so, what's the budget? Have you looked at any stones with RB?
 
Budget is very flexible, but from the online browsing I've done so far I'd like to stay between $30k - $40k. I would like the highest clarity and color my budget will allow, but again cut/brilliance and size are top priorty. I'm not a diamond expert, so I don't see any inclusions in my SI1, but if I can go up to a VS 1 or 2 even better. I'd be willing to go down on color as long as it faces up white, but don't think I'd want to go farther down than a G or H because I do like the look of the brighter white.

I would be ok with going with a different vendor if I would get a better stone and value. I'll just have to set my current stone in something - maybe a pendent. Budget would be about the same. I'm considering visiting Whiteflash because I live/work right near their offices.

I have an appointment Friday to see dimond options at Robbins Brothers, but I don't anticipate making a purchase for a year or two. Just planning right now.
 
This one's stunning:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1515471.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1523430.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1531340.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1421475.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1482604.asp

H&A's
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1541926.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1541928.asp

This one's over 3 but it's pretty and within budget :bigsmile:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1445786.asp

I can do some more searching if you tell me which ones you like...or if you prefer other things. We also have some other great vendors which I'll check ,but these ones for now
 
 
Krista, that will be a very nice upgrade at $30-40k!!! But the bad news is that you may need a new setting. I doubt you could go up in size much at all with that particular setting. Ritani would have to be contacted to see if they could cut out that head and make a new one for a much larger stone.

My advice to you is to NOT go with Robbins Brothers. Your diamond has an IGI cert which is not one of the reliable ones, so your stone is not really F SI1 by GIA standards. I feel like you really overpaid for the original stone and I would not make that mistake twice. It is great you came here before buying (which was my case as well!). I would recommend setting your current diamond in a pendant and starting over with a GIA or AGS graded stone, and these are the two reliable labs in the US. You will be able to get a 2 ct stone with that kind of budget, and you certainly want to get a fine quality one at a fair price, I would think. When you are ready to buy, we can show you some outstanding stones. It might be good to use WhiteFlash or Good Old Gold because I think they both sell Ritani and could ask the question about altering your setting once you chose a diamond. Or they can order you a new one if that one can't be reused. It is a beautiful setting so I do hope they could alter it for you.

I think G-H VS2 is a wonderful choice!
 
KristaME2|1356011299|3336423 said:
Budget is very flexible, but from the online browsing I've done so far I'd like to stay between $30k - $40k. I would like the highest clarity and color my budget will allow, but again cut/brilliance and size are top priorty. I'm not a diamond expert, so I don't see any inclusions in my SI1, but if I can go up to a VS 1 or 2 even better. I'd be willing to go down on color as long as it faces up white, but don't think I'd want to go farther down than a G or H because I do like the look of the brighter white.

I would be ok with going with a different vendor if I would get a better stone and value. I'll just have to set my current stone in something - maybe a pendent. Budget would be about the same. I'm considering visiting Whiteflash because I live/work right near their offices.

I have an appointment Friday to see dimond options at Robbins Brothers, but I don't anticipate making a purchase for a year or two. Just planning right now.
Click to expand...

Ah, I just saw this. Well, I've given a good idea of what's out there, but prices will change between now and then...I agree with DS, you'll need to get a different setting because of the huge difference in the size of stones. Maybe when the time comes you put it into a temp setting and upgrade the setting late. But again, this is a while away and a lot can change.
 
Thanks 04diamond & diamondseeker. Love this one: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.280-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104061594002#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/2/

But first I guess I need to determine if a larger stone will fit in my current setting. I thought we had asked about this when we had it made and they said yes, but that was 4 years and 3 babies ago, so I've lost a LOT of sleep since then and the memory is quite fuzzy. lol

I do remeber Robbins Bros. saying that most of their diamonds come with IGI reports because I specifically asked for one from GIA. So maybe I will go meet with Whiteflash as well. I prefer to see the diamond in person before I buy even though I have read amazing things about all the vendors on PS I'm worried about not seeing the stone in person before I purchase. Especially when it comes to color. Wish I had found PS before I bought my current diamond.

Regarding color. I've seen a lot of people on PS have gone with stones in the I - K range. What should I look for on color for a good value that is still white when set? If my diamond truely was graded on color wrong maybe I could go up two shades and it would still look the same, correct?
 
You seem in a similar boat to where I was. I also was worried about colour, particularly in a larger diamond.
If you have a great vendor, who is experienced and patient with you (and you are patient too lol) it is likely you will find what exactly what you want.

I found that F / SI2 was really great for me. Eyeclean of course, through an extremely experienced and trusted vendor and to this day I haven't actually definitively seen anything at all within my lovely diamond! Sometimes I think I see something...and it turns out maybe to be a reflection...? I absolutely adore my lovely rock.

Admittedly going that low in clarity might be a bit of a scary choice on these boards, you may find in your particular situation that you are happier staying with SI1.

But going lower in clarity has been a real win for me, and allowed me to find the size I was dreaming of (1.6c) hearts and arrows ideal.

I have beautifully cut HoF earrings (bought by my husband) and they are G-H.. My positive experiences with these earrings would have me considering going to G. When I first got these earrings, I fancied I could see the warmth while looking at them in my home in those first few days.

Praps it's a little like my ghostly 'inclusion' sightings... really don't see that suggestion or reflection of colour in those earrings now...I am aware that the colours of the environment around me do reflect in the stones occasionally (not while they are in my ears!!). Perhaps I simply stopped worrying?

now.cut...colour...clarity - in that order - got me where I wanted.
I hope it gets you where you want to go, too! :wink2:
 
That is a stunning stone! As far as the color...I'm not sure how IGI grades, but I haven't heard anything negative...You could send your stone to GIA to have them grade it for about $200 (you'll have to check their updated rates at www.gia.edu ). It looks beautiful though. As far as color...You can find a gorgeous J or K that doesn't look like a J or K, but that's hard to find. Also, if you find a stone with fluorescence that will help with lower colored stones. If you don't like yellowish diamonds I wouldn't go any lower than a J or K (you can get a great deal on a stone in this color range).

As far as the setting. I have a 6.45 mm stone in a vatche wanna be setting, and they weren't able to put a 6.9 mm stone in there. I guess you could check with the designer to see if they'd reconstruct the setting...for your $40k budget though you should be able to get a gorgeous stone in a new setting. Have you looked at settings? Either way, you'll have a stunning upgrade! PS - I understand being in love with your current setting so I would suggest contacting the designer to see if they can accommodate your bigger stone.
 
If you don't want to see a tint in your stone, stick with H or higher. With that kind of budget, you don't need to sacrifice on color.
 
I totally agree with DS. I am personally ok with a little warmth but if you want a white stone in that size I'd stick with G or H.

If Robbins Brothers will give you 110% of your purchase price for a trade in, I'd probably start with them if it was me. I'd give them specific stones (GIA graded and PS vetted) that I wanted to see for them to call in. That's a significant amount of money to either save or put towards an even bigger stone or dream setting.

Of course if you're sentimental about the stone and can afford to keep it than do that! If you do keep it for a pendant, you may want to consider having Brian Gavin recut it for you. DS did this (as have many others) and ended up with a stunning stone.
 
You make a good point about losing the trade in value. This ring was actually upgrade #1 and hubby and I shopped together, so not a huge amount of sentimental value in the diamond, although I would secretly love to keep it and turn it into another piece of jewelry (but we'll keep that our little secret :naughty: ). And my $30 - 40k budget is only if I get the trade in value, otherwise I'll have to lower it to $20 - 30k. That's still TBD.

I'll let you all know how my meeting on Friday goes. Cross your fingers I don't need a brand new setting. These babies are running $5k now according to Whiteflash.
 
KristaME2|1356024050|3336588 said:
You make a good point about losing the trade in value. This ring was actually upgrade #1 and hubby and I shopped together, so not a huge amount of sentimental value in the diamond, although I would secretly love to keep it and turn it into another piece of jewelry (but we'll keep that our little secret :naughty: ). And my $30 - 40k budget is only if I get the trade in value, otherwise I'll have to lower it to $20 - 30k. That's still TBD.

I'll let you all know how my meeting on Friday goes. Cross your fingers I don't need a brand new setting. These babies are running $5k now according to Whiteflash.
Click to expand...

It's still a good budget for a 2+ ct! and that way you get to keep your current stone and have the setting you want! Perfect situation in my mind!
 
Rosebloom|1356018208|3336501 said:
I totally agree with DS. I am personally ok with a little warmth but if you want a white stone in that size I'd stick with G or H.

If Robbins Brothers will give you 110% of your purchase price for a trade in, I'd probably start with them if it was me. I'd give them specific stones (GIA graded and PS vetted) that I wanted to see for them to call in. That's a significant amount of money to either save or put towards an even bigger stone or dream setting.

Of course if you're sentimental about the stone and can afford to keep it than do that! If you do keep it for a pendant, you may want to consider having Brian Gavin recut it for you. DS did this (as have many others) and ended up with a stunning stone.
Click to expand...

Yeah, definitely. 110% of purchase price is too good to pass up IMO!
 
KristaME2|1356013847|3336451 said:
Thanks 04diamond & diamondseeker. Love this one: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.280-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104061594002#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/2/

But first I guess I need to determine if a larger stone will fit in my current setting. I thought we had asked about this when we had it made and they said yes, but that was 4 years and 3 babies ago, so I've lost a LOT of sleep since then and the memory is quite fuzzy. lol

I do remeber Robbins Bros. saying that most of their diamonds come with IGI reports because I specifically asked for one from GIA. So maybe I will go meet with Whiteflash as well. I prefer to see the diamond in person before I buy even though I have read amazing things about all the vendors on PS I'm worried about not seeing the stone in person before I purchase. Especially when it comes to color. Wish I had found PS before I bought my current diamond.

Regarding color. I've seen a lot of people on PS have gone with stones in the I - K range. What should I look for on color for a good value that is still white when set? If my diamond truely was graded on color wrong maybe I could go up two shades and it would still look the same, correct?
Click to expand...


OMG --- I just saw this post today!
I was so busy yesterday with the purchase of this stone that I didn't log on in the afternoon --I'm so sorry!
The other diamond we considered by BGD was the 2.268 (I, VS2), and it's still available....I also liked the 2.008
Good luck today on your meeting!
*P.S. I love your original setting!
 
So here is the update. My setting can only accomodate a max 1.5 ct diamond as is. They say their in house jeweler can cut off the head and replace with one that has longer prongs to accomodate the larger diamond, but I will lose the diamonds embedded on the prongs currently. (1) I don't think I'm confortable having their jewelers doing this extensive of work on the setting - I'd rather Ritani themselves do it and (2) I like the diamonds on the prongs and don't want to lose this look.

I also viewed 3 diamonds a 2ct, 2.25ct and 2.5 ct to see what size I prefer. I like the 2.25 best. Larger but not too large. He only had colors I and H to show me and both were too warm/tinted for my liking. Against my F color diamond it looked quite yellow/brown. So, I will definetly be sticking with F color.

I think we decided to keep my beautiful ring and for our 15th Anniversary look for a new diamond/setting for my upgrade. Then I can have this ring to pass along to my son.
 
KristaME2|1356117132|3337501 said:
So here is the update. My setting can only accomodate a max 1.5 ct diamond as is. They say their in house jeweler can cut off the head and replace with one that has longer prongs to accomodate the larger diamond, but I will lose the diamonds embedded on the prongs currently. (1) I don't think I'm confortable having their jewelers doing this extensive of work on the setting - I'd rather Ritani themselves do it and (2) I like the diamonds on the prongs and don't want to lose this look.

I also viewed 3 diamonds a 2ct, 2.25ct and 2.5 ct to see what size I prefer. I like the 2.25 best. Larger but not too large. He only had colors I and H to show me and both were too warm/tinted for my liking. Against my F color diamond it looked quite yellow/brown. So, I will definetly be sticking with F color.

I think we decided to keep my beautiful ring and for our 15th Anniversary look for a new diamond/setting for my upgrade. Then I can have this ring to pass along to my son.
Click to expand...

Good decision!

But were they showing you GIA graded stones? Because as I said before, your current stone is likely not F color because of the IGI grading. I would have never upgraded with them because of the upgrade policy. As I said before, you would still likely overpay a second time.
 
KristaME2|1356117132|3337501 said:
So here is the update. My setting can only accomodate a max 1.5 ct diamond as is. They say their in house jeweler can cut off the head and replace with one that has longer prongs to accomodate the larger diamond, but I will lose the diamonds embedded on the prongs currently. (1) I don't think I'm confortable having their jewelers doing this extensive of work on the setting - I'd rather Ritani themselves do it and (2) I like the diamonds on the prongs and don't want to lose this look.

I also viewed 3 diamonds a 2ct, 2.25ct and 2.5 ct to see what size I prefer. I like the 2.25 best. Larger but not too large. He only had colors I and H to show me and both were too warm/tinted for my liking. Against my F color diamond it looked quite yellow/brown. So, I will definetly be sticking with F color.

I think we decided to keep my beautiful ring and for our 15th Anniversary look for a new diamond/setting for my upgrade. Then I can have this ring to pass along to my son.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind if he was showing you IGI graded H and I colored stones, they could actually be J or lower. An H colored stone from a reputable PS vendor with a GIA or AGS lab report might look very different to you.
 
Yes, I was very clear that I would only consider stones with GIA or AGSL certs and XXX or 000 rating. He brought the certs out with the diamonds and they were all GIA.

I'm sure this may have been their sales pitch, but when I mentioned that the prices they were quoting were about 5k higher than similar stones I had priced on Bluenile, Whiteflash, etc they stated that online vendors such as these buy used stones and resell. While I'm sure this is true (because even B&M like this one obviously do that too), is that something to really be concerned with?
 
KristaME2|1356118960|3337534 said:
Yes, I was very clear that I would only consider stones with GIA or AGSL certs and XXX or 000 rating. He brought the certs out with the diamonds and they were all GIA.

I'm sure this may have been their sales pitch, but when I mentioned that the prices they were quoting were about 5k higher than similar stones I had priced on Bluenile, Whiteflash, etc they stated that online vendors such as these buy used stones and resell. While I'm sure this is true (because even B&M like this one obviously do that too), is that something to really be concerned with?
Click to expand...

No. If they have been worn before, the diamonds usually get re-certed to make sure there are no chips, etc.
 
Update

I decided to finally get my engagement ring and some other jewelry appraised so I could insure everything. As it turns out, you are all very right and my diamond did not grade the same as the IGI report stated. I went to a local GIA certified appraiser who grades/appraises everything right in front of you. Now, my only hesitation is that he did grade the diamond mounted. Does this change the accuracy of his grading? If so, can you explain how?

Here is the IGI Cert grading and the appraiser's grading:

IGI
1.30 Ct Round Brilliant
F Color
SI1 Clarity
Slight Florescence
Cut Grade - EX

Appraisal Gradeing
1.30 Ct Round Brilliant
G Color
SI2 Clarity
Medium Florescence (this is what could make it pass for an F in his opinion)
Cut Grade - EX

Market Value difference is about $2000 :evil: :oops: :shock:

Another question for you all...if I purchase another loose diamond in the future, how do I avoid this happening again. Is it common practice to request an independant appraisal of the diamond before I purchase? How do you normally arrange this with the jeweler/appraiser?

Thanks for all the help!
 
If you buy AGS or GIA certed stones, a lot of people feel that is adequate and you do not need an additional appraisal. It's really only other labs that make it smart to get an appraisal. Sorry your stone appraised a little lower, but with the less strict labs, it's definitely not unheard of. I myself own an IGI stone by the way. Almost all the mall chains sell IGI diamonds.
 
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