honest opinions on stone

[Kitten35]

Can I get opinions on this demantoid? I am fairly new to gems, but I liked the color of this one a lot. Is this a "good gem"?

 

[OTL]

It is a pretty demantoid, from this color one can assume that it is from Russia

If you don't mind the small size, it's a good looking stone.

 

[Kitten35]

Okay, thanks. I can tell the cut is fairly good, right? But I wasn't sure about the color--the vendor described it as darker than ideal, but I tend to like darker stones. It was described as older stock I believe. It has a horsetail inclusion, which I am assuming is a good thing, right? I have seen that mentioned on here before. It is small, .41 carat, but I really liked it.

 

[Kitten35]

Can someone tell me more about these stones? IE, general knowledge? Thanks!

 

[T L]

I'm not an expert on demantoids, but even though horsetail inclusions are supposedly desirable, there shouldn't be so many that they impede the fire and brillance of the stone. It's just a photo, but my main concern is that the stone might be too included, but that may be something you need to see in person.

A fine chrome green is the most desirable color, and it shouldn't shift in light too much. I have seen fine demantoids in a museum, and the old Russian material was a really neon chrome green. Here's a fuzzy photo of that stone, but the color is easy to see.

The color shouldn't shift too much to a very yellowish or greyish color either in certain lighting.



There are some very pretty demantoids coming out of Africa too (Namibia mainly), but they are more of a bluish green, and they tend to shift color as well, but they have superb fire due to the fact that they typically are very crystal in appearance.

 

[Kitten35]

Okay, thank you. Here is a different pic that may show the inclusions better. I can see the "horsetail" but I'm not sure if it is considered too much to be desireable, or not?

 

[T L]

It may be worth it to see it in person if you're not taking too much of a monetary risk. When I mean monetary risk, is this a very reliable seller with a good return policy?

In the meantime, I would ask the seller the following questions:

Does it shift color in certain lighting, and if so, does it go more yellowish and/or greyish?

Does it have good fire, or do the inclusions cover up the fire a great deal?

You should also know that horsetails don't necessarily mean that the stone is Russian. They're finding horsetail inclusions in some Pakistani material from what I heard, but don't quote me on that.

 

[Kitten35]

This is Russian (per vendor--reputable vendor).

It is described as having "some" life...not entirely sure what that means.

 

[T L]

This is Russian (per vendor--reputable vendor).

It is described as having "some" life...not entirely sure what that means.

Again, I'm not a demantoid expert, but I know someone who is, and she has seen lots and lots of demantoids, and she said the most beautiful ones are a rich chrome green with magnificent dispersion. However, they are rarer than rare. Therefore, as long as you know you're not paying too much, and you're not getting a top gem, it may be worth it to look at it in person.

For me, personally, I would rather not have the visible horsetails, and rather have the dispersion, as I find that is one of the things that is truly remarkable about these stones. If I just want a green garnet without a lot of dispersion, then I would get a tsavorite. Now tsavorites are beautiful as well, but at least you'll get some nice brillance and a beautiful green color, even though they lack the fire of demantoids, diamonds, and other higher RI stones.

Sometimes the horsetails are microscopic, which is perfectly fine, and at least they don't impede the dispersion that much. I own a couple of demantoids, one from Russia and one from Namibia. Both are pretty, although not the desirable chrome green. The Russian one is more of a lime green, and the Namibian is more of a bluish green, but they both have a lot of fire. However, for what I paid for both, I'm happy.

 

[Kitten35]

Thanks!

I appreciate the advice. I am becoming very interested in gems, but, unfortunately, haha, on a limited budget. haha. (Especially right now, as we are in the process of moving, and I had to give up my job until we get settled again).

I understand this one isn't the most desireable color, but I was curious as to the rest and if this was worth purchasing or not. I rather think the inclusion is cool, but I am not sure if I would ever set this (a little small); mostly just interested in it for collection purposes. If it was really pretty I might set it into a pendant with something else, or a ring, but I was thinking of just starting a small collection....the addiction begins...haha. If it is not worth purchasing, that is okay too, and it is ok to say so. I may eventually set some, but generally for gems under $100 I would not want to set them in gold unless they were really stunning, because the cost of setting would be so much more than gem. Maybe silver, but maybe not at all.

I am new to gems (not to jewelry--I have a pretty decent pre-PS jewelry collection, I have always loved gems/jewelry, but this is the first time I am really learning nuances of cut, varities of gems, what's really good vs. just ok, and etc) so that is why I was asking; sometimes I am not sure yet, especially when seeing pictures online, how to sort out what is worth purchasing and what is not. This particular gem is under $60 just for point of reference, not sure if I would be over, under, or fairly paying, or whether it is worth purchasing at all or if said $60 would be better saved for something else of higher quality. I tend to be the type who would rather have less but higher quality, but I do not have the budget for lots of top-quality gems. I would like nice gems, but they don't have to be top quality...however, I do not want low quality or not worth it, either.

 

[Kitten35]

I also found this apatite for a similar price.

Is this gem of good quality, better or worse than the demantoid, and why? What are you judging the gem on?

Thanks!

It is significantly larger, I think it is 1ct, roughly.

 

[T L]

Thanks!

I appreciate the advice. I am becoming very interested in gems, but, unfortunately, haha, on a limited budget. haha. (Especially right now, as we are in the process of moving, and I had to give up my job until we get settled again).

I understand this one isn't the most desireable color, but I was curious as to the rest and if this was worth purchasing or not. I rather think the inclusion is cool, but I am not sure if I would ever set this (a little small); mostly just interested in it for collection purposes. If it was really pretty I might set it into a pendant with something else, or a ring, but I was thinking of just starting a small collection....the addiction begins...haha. If it is not worth purchasing, that is okay too, and it is ok to say so. I may eventually set some, but generally for gems under $100 I would not want to set them in gold unless they were really stunning, because the cost of setting would be so much more than gem. Maybe silver, but maybe not at all.

I am new to gems (not to jewelry--I have a pretty decent pre-PS jewelry collection, I have always loved gems/jewelry, but this is the first time I am really learning nuances of cut, varities of gems, what's really good vs. just ok, and etc) so that is why I was asking; sometimes I am not sure yet, especially when seeing pictures online, how to sort out what is worth purchasing and what is not. This particular gem is under $60 just for point of reference, not sure if I would be over, under, or fairly paying, or whether it is worth purchasing at all or if said $60 would be better saved for something else. I tend to be the type who would rather have less but higher quality, but I do not have the budget for lots of top-quality gems. I would like nice gems, but they don't have to be top quality...however, I do not want low quality or not worth it, either.

For that price, it may be worth seeing in person. However, if the dealer is pricing it that low, as even fine half carat demantoids can be pretty expensive, then I suspect it may be overly included. I paid around $500 for my half carat Russian, but it is pretty clean with only microscopic horsetails. The color is more of a lime green though. Here's a terrible photo of it though taken with my old old old camera. It's way more saturated than this, without any of the grey you're seeing, but at least you get the idea of how nice cutting and clarity help these stones look. Now, if it were also a top gem chrome green, I would be even happier.

 

[T L]

I also found this apatite for a similar price.

Is this gem of good quality, better or worse than the demantoid, and why? What are you judging the gem on?

Thanks!

It is significantly larger, I think it is 1ct, roughly.

Apatite is on the soft side, and it has a waxy luster, so for me, it's all about color in those gems. If you like the color, then go for it. It's very pretty.

 

[Kitten35]

Ok, thanks.

So, is the apetite generally probably better quality of the two?

As far as the demantoid, that's kinda what I was wondering too--the price seems very, very low. It is listed as old stock, but it still seems low to me. Thanks!

 

[T L]

Ok, thanks.

So, is the apetite generally probably better quality of the two?

As far as the demantoid, that's kinda what I was wondering too--the price seems very, very low. It is listed as old stock, but it still seems low to me. Thanks!

For me, it's hard to compare the two since they're such different stones, as far as their characteristics. However, I think the apatite will give you more bang for your buck.

 

[GemFever]

Depending on how much you trust the seller, I'd actually go for the demantoid. My impression is that they are much rarer than apatites, and much more expensive usually. It is weird that the stone is so cheap... but I'd risk the $60 and get it. Unless the stone is absolutely over-dark and ugly, it would be worth it to me, if it was truly Russian and with a nice horsetail inclusion.

For reference, I have an African demantoid that is kind of grassy colored, doesn't have any notable inclusions, and definitely goes grey/light brown in some light sources. But the fire is super nice. It's one of my prettiest stones.

Let us know what you decide!

 

[chrono]

There are pluses and minuses with the demantoid and apatite. I know who the vendor is and sort of thought about the demantoid myself since it is inexpensive. I guess it is because the tone is dark, plus the inclusion might dampen the famed dispersion. Other than that, the rich green is excellent. The apatite looks great too, only that it's something I would not dare have set and wear.

 

[Kitten35]

Thanks! Appreciate the advice. I have asked a few more questions of the vendor.

 

[minousbijoux]

I have seen a fair lot of demantoids and considered purchasing a topnotch pair of Russian stones about a year ago, each being about one carat. These particular demantoids had come out of someone's collection and were up for sale. They were stunning. Vivid, slightly lighter than chrome green, microscopic horsetails that looked like fireworks, and the dispersion was unbelievable - like they were on fire. There is a thread about them here, as I came for help with pricing. IIRC, they were about $10k/ct.

By comparison, yours is not high quality. It looks like there won't be a lot of dispersion due to the included nature of the stone. OTOH, it seems to be a good price. Just don't be fooled thinking its terribly representative of a Russian demantoid. You can ask the seller. He is very fair and honest.

 

[GemFever]

I have seen a fair lot of demantoids and considered purchasing a topnotch pair of Russian stones about a year ago, each being about one carat. These particular demantoids had come out of someone's collection and were up for sale. They were stunning. Vivid, slightly lighter than chrome green, microscopic horsetails that looked like fireworks, and the dispersion was unbelievable - like they were on fire. There is a thread about them here, as I came for help with pricing. IIRC, they were about $10k/ct.

Man, I'd love to just see those stones! Your description has me drooling. You say the horsetails looked like fireworks? Is that why they are so prized, because they bring extra points of fire to the stone?

 

[minousbijoux]

I have seen a fair lot of demantoids and considered purchasing a topnotch pair of Russian stones about a year ago, each being about one carat. These particular demantoids had come out of someone's collection and were up for sale. They were stunning. Vivid, slightly lighter than chrome green, microscopic horsetails that looked like fireworks, and the dispersion was unbelievable - like they were on fire. There is a thread about them here, as I came for help with pricing. IIRC, they were about $10k/ct.

Man, I'd love to just see those stones! Your description has me drooling. You say the horsetails looked like fireworks? Is that why they are so prized, because they bring extra points of fire to the stone?

No, I don't believe so; they are inclusions within the stone (obviously) and they, until recently at least, were considered indicative of location, namely Russia. The demantoid garnet composition is what gives it the high level of dispersion, and thus its name, being named because its so diamond-like (or at least high quality, non-included ones are). The unusual aspect of horsetails is that they are so unique an inclusion and quite beautiful in their own right. I really don't think they add to the dispersion - in fact, I believe that if there was a lot of junk and horsetails in the stone, it would have to affect it negatively, making the stone less transparent and therefore reflecting less light back out. But they are beautiful to me - as I said, the good ones looking like exploding fireworks, or those spindly flowers - asters?

I'll see if I can find the thread, because I think someone was kind enough to post some photos.

 

[GemFever]

This is the thread, i think:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/demantoids.168771/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/demantoids.168771/[/URL]

I posted my first PS post there . There are some pics, but I'd love to see more.

OP, sorry for the threadjack. But maybe this additional info might be useful in your decision?

 

[minousbijoux]

Gemfever, good for you, that was in fact the thread! Well, I guess I imagined that there were images of horsetails, and I exagerated the cost by a factor of two! As the thread indicates, the vendor was selling them for a bit over $5K/ct.

Now I'll go see if I can find some good images for horsetails...

 

[minousbijoux]

Of all places, I found some nice pics on Wiki. Here is the best one IMO: