house, children and law school...how did you manage?

[lucyandroger]

There are TONS of other options besides what you're doing now and going to law school. I suggest you seriously consider each and every one before putting yourself in an extra six figures of debt. I'd also suggest doing some sort of legal internship so you can see what the actual day-to-day life of a lawyer is like. I'm always concerned when I hear people say they want to be a lawyer because they're stubborn or they like to argue...etc.

Boredstiff has made some excellent points about the current legal market. It's not just affecting Big Law either. As big firm associates are laid off or deferred, they're snatching up all the public interest and government jobs. I think you should seriously sit down and think about how long it's going to take to pay off $130,000 in student loans on an ADA's salary (if you're lucky enough to get one in this market). It's doable but it will take a loooong time and you have to be seriously committed. I do make big firm money and the loans are a heavy burden.

As far as having kids during law school, I think it would have been awesome to have a baby 3L year. I had plenty of time and a flexible schedule. My real concern would be dealing with a toddler during my first few years as a lawyer. I'm sure I could of handled that but that's not the kind of childhood I want my children to have. Plenty of people juggle all sorts of things but are they actually doing a good job at any of them? Only you know whether you will be able to.

 

[vespergirl]

I''m not a lawyer, but I worked as a marketing executive at a law firm for many years before I quit when I had my first child. Like you, I had taken my LSATs and was applying to law schools and was thinking that I wanted to become a lawyer, and then get married and have children. However, while I was working at my firm, I noticed something. Right after law school is when you''re supposed to work the longest hours, as a new associate. So, I would have started my legal career at 29, which would have been when I was expected to work 16 hour days, for about 8 years straight until I became partner (I am in DC and worked at one of the largest firms in the world, so it was very competitive). Associates at my firm would not have been able to stay at their jobs if they asked for reduced hours (which means a regular 40 hour week) - they would have been "phased out", kids or no kids. Only female partners were able to have the luxury of having children, and the minimum I ever saw them work were 10 hour days - and they employed both day and evening nannies to take care of their children.

When I got pregnant, I was thinking, I''m just the marketing manager, not a lawyer, surely I''ll be able to work from home 2 days a week. No way, even for me, I was told that my "part-time" schedule would be full-time mon - thurs but I could leave at noon on fri. And the irony is that the firm that I worked for was actually considered "family friendly," as far as law firms go. So, I quit and became a SAHM.

You also mentioned that you would have to take loans to pay for school. If you go to one of the big firms with high associate salaries that will allow you to pay off your loans in a reasonable amount of time, you won''t be home enough to even get to see your children most weekdays. If you go to a small boutique firm that has more reasonable hours, the salaries are much lower, and you will be saddled with debt for years.

Basically, I''m sharing this story because I also thought about going to law school, but since I knew that I wanted to actually see my kids on the occasional workday, it didn''t work with my family planning schedule. Most young lawyers I know with kids who made it work started law school at 21, were done at 24, and made partner by 32 or 33, and then started having kids. The ones who started at law firms in their late 20s (as I was planning on doing) didn''t have time to try to have children until their late 30s/early 40s, and generally ended up adopting babies from China because they were past their peak fertility - I''m not kidding, it was very common at my firm. There wasn''t a day that went by at the firm when several of us would gather around the cappucino machine and talk about how little time the lawyers spent with their spouses and children, and how much some of them regretted going to law school, but then they felt trapped there because of the crippling student law debt.

I''m not trying to discourage you from a law career - I think it''s a great career - however, I don''t think it''s a great one to embark on at the same time that you''re planning to have children. You really should be established in a firm for AT LEAST 7 years and considered for partner, or at least of counsel, before you will be able to dedicate time to having children. The other option is to hang a shingle and start your own practice, but unless your parents paid for law school, that is very risky, because there''s often very little money in it.

 

[oct2009]

Date: 9/17/2009 5:55:46 PM
Author: lala2332
i just graduated from law school. I went to a top 100 school and I have NO job, zero prospects of a job, and over 100,000 in debt. I was similar to you in the research/facts/organization part and thought ''oh, law school.'' I am now having to apply to jobs in retail, where I worked before law school, just to have work. I would not consider law school unless you are planning to put off having kids for 5+ years at least. Having babies while in law school just seems impossible to me. I was at the library until all hours of the night, i needed to intern while in school to get real experience and I was earning no money. I think paralegal, or maybe getting the legal librarian degree might be a better alternative. You have a job right now, I would be very hesitant to leave it in the current economy. My fiancee graduated top of the class, law review, insane work experience and his entire class at a very large, very prestigious firm has been deferred until January, others have lost their entire offers from some of the top firms in the country. I would not be willing to risk all the debt, zero job prospects, when I could instead be building toward my future and looking for a different job from the security of having a job.

Third-year attorney here. (I was laid off last year and was very lucky to find a position that paid half of what I was making before). OP is so young, give it a few years to see if the economy turns around. The legal market has changed dramatically in the past two years and will likely not recover to the level it reached in 2005-2006. There are just too many attorneys, unemployed attorneys, and fresh law students out there that the market is completely saturated right now. Look into employment statistics - http://lawshucks.com/layoff-tracker/ is a place to start but doesn''t even begin to cover all of the legal jobs that have been lost recently. Tons of attorneys can''t get jobs out of law school with no experience and end up doing document review projects for months or years, but now even those jobs are drying up and being outsourced to other countries. It''s really, really dismal out there for lawyers. I know plenty of ivy-league law grads who have been laid off. No one is immune.

Getting a 158 on the LSAT is not going to guarantee you for any scholarship money. It is really not wise to go into this process expecting law schools to throw money at you. The game has changed. With the economy the way it is, more people are applying to law school to escape the market (apparently oblivious to how awful the legal market is?). Competition is fierce. You''ll need to know that you can pay for 100% of it (not that you should, but you should be prepared to do so) before you consider going any further in the process.

I do want to sound harsh, not personally toward you, but generally toward anyone thinking of pursuing a legal degree. It''s the current reality. Those who have survived layoffs are fearing for their jobs on a daily basis waiting for the next axe to fall. It''s not a great way to live. https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/38.gif I would highly, highly, highly recommend holding off for a few years before entering law school. Get a better idea of what you''ll be facing when you''d graduate. Get some more non-attorney experience in the field, as others have suggested.

Best of luck whatever you end up deciding to do.

 

[cocolaw]

Date: 9/17/2009 5:55:46 PM
Author: lala2332
i just graduated from law school. I went to a top 100 school and I have NO job, zero prospects of a job, and over 100,000 in debt. I was similar to you in the research/facts/organization part and thought ''oh, law school.'' I am now having to apply to jobs in retail, where I worked before law school, just to have work. I would not consider law school unless you are planning to put off having kids for 5+ years at least. Having babies while in law school just seems impossible to me. I was at the library until all hours of the night, i needed to intern while in school to get real experience and I was earning no money. I think paralegal, or maybe getting the legal librarian degree might be a better alternative. You have a job right now, I would be very hesitant to leave it in the current economy. My fiancee graduated top of the class, law review, insane work experience and his entire class at a very large, very prestigious firm has been deferred until January, others have lost their entire offers from some of the top firms in the country. I would not be willing to risk all the debt, zero job prospects, when I could instead be building toward my future and looking for a different job from the security of having a job.

BIG DITTO!! a MLS (master of library services i think??) would be great, as would almost anything else. i was accepted to a public top 100 law school, but chose a private (read MORE EXPENSIVE) third tier school. the public school was ranked in the 80s when i was accepted and has now shot up to the 60s in the rankings, which makes me kick myself even more. i was afraid to leave alabama, and now here i am in new york lol! i am not even looking for or considering traditional attorney jobs..the competition is way too tough. i took a job as a legal recruiter in ny right after i graduated and saw first hand how even attorneys from T14 schools were rejected...and worse, not even invited in to interview at most firms. what''s terrible is that in all of my interviews now, i have to answer "why not law?" "why are you running away from the law??" unless you know you will have a job, a law degree stigmatizes you and makes it difficult for you to get a job in any other field. that said, if you really want to be a lawyer i''m not here to discourage......i just don''t want you to be sucked in!!!!!

Lala: what''s going on? i thought you got that job????

 

[lala2332]

hey coco,
I know that we must know some of the same people. I''m pretty sure that I know which law school you went to and I know quite a few people who went there...small world! Anyway, the job I interviewed for thought I was to into litigation because of my District Attorney work experience, which is funny, b/c the DA offices don''t think I have enough experience. ugh...beyond frustrated with the job issue these days. how is your job search coming? I hope wedding planning is going well! that is about all I do right now to keep busy. I''ve been MIA from PS lately just because I''m trying to stay out of the house and busy.



to the OP:
Also, I''m sorry that we are all being kind of downers about going to law school, its just really insanely tough to find anything these days and the work expected of a young attorney is more than most are willing to do. The class graduating in May 2010 just found out that they won''t start working at one big firm until January 2012, when under normal circumstances they would have started Sept. 2010. I would start reading Abovethelaw.com its a pretty up to date legal blog. good luck!

 

[cocolaw]

lala: that is too funny! yeah you def know which school i went to! and the public school that i was considering is in georgia....in a scary part of a big city, so you can probably figure that out too! i''m sure we know some of the same people!! wedding planning is basically over. i have an interview today actually for a position as an admin assistant--i feel so bad even going because i know that this will pigeon hole me for future jobs, but the pay is good i think. i am kind of hoping i don''t get the job. i am still waiting to hear back on a job i really really want---they are doing second round interviews next week or the week after and so hopefully i make the cut.

good for you staying out of the house! i should do more of the same. honestly, not working has made me so lazy!!!!!!!! let me know how things are going with your job hunt. sucks about that position, but something else will work out. did you ask any of the people you interviewed with if they know of any other firms that are hiring?

 

[Nov2109]

thanks again everyone for your advice. its a scary job market out there right now in every field. The one I am in included. marketing is considered overhead and companies are cutting back in non-essential positions. I am looking into every option I have right now and I hope I''ll be able to figure out what is right. I know I do not want to work for a large firm, so that helps a bit. But i do want to have a life outside of the courtroom, and to be able to repay my student loans-that may not be possible.

Ive got so much to think about. I think my first step needs to be to get out of this company I am with and then take the next steps.

My supervisor is a good friend of mine(which makes this place somewhat enjoyable still) and my salary was brought up-I am paid under the industry standard. She was fighting for a raise for me. Our boss, also a female, who claims to be a feminist-said well shes really young, and yes she is great and we love that we have her on our team, but im sure that her fiance makes a decent salary and they are doing fine financially. She just wants more money, she doesnt need it. It was much more lengthy than that but thats just a summary of the conversation...nothing to do with my skills, qualifications, work ethic, grades in college, the fact I have been at the company for two years, and was an intern.....nope just that ive got a **MAN**. Im really mad!

With that said, I would love to file a discrimination suit-my supervisor actually encouraged it,but im not dealing with that crap... I also found out the *man* who I replaced was started at 8k more than me. And I also am an editor on the team, which he was not....so I have more responsibilities than him. Mind you, he was the same age as me when he started, and had less experience. But I guess because hes got a you know what, he deserves more. I really thought this whole man/woman thing would be gone by now, and I never thought I would experience that from a female boss.

I just need to get a new job.

 

[cocolaw]

don''t go!!

 

[Stone Hunter]

Date: 9/17/2009 8:21:44 PM
Author: cocolaw

Date: 9/17/2009 5:55:46 PM
Author: lala2332
i just graduated from law school. I went to a top 100 school and I have NO job, zero prospects of a job, and over 100,000 in debt. I was similar to you in the research/facts/organization part and thought ''oh, law school.'' I am now having to apply to jobs in retail, where I worked before law school, just to have work. I would not consider law school unless you are planning to put off having kids for 5+ years at least. Having babies while in law school just seems impossible to me. I was at the library until all hours of the night, i needed to intern while in school to get real experience and I was earning no money. I think paralegal, or maybe getting the legal librarian degree might be a better alternative. You have a job right now, I would be very hesitant to leave it in the current economy. My fiancee graduated top of the class, law review, insane work experience and his entire class at a very large, very prestigious firm has been deferred until January, others have lost their entire offers from some of the top firms in the country. I would not be willing to risk all the debt, zero job prospects, when I could instead be building toward my future and looking for a different job from the security of having a job.

BIG DITTO!! a MLS (master of library services i think??) would be great, as would almost anything else. i was accepted to a public top 100 law school, but chose a private (read MORE EXPENSIVE) third tier school. the public school was ranked in the 80s when i was accepted and has now shot up to the 60s in the rankings, which makes me kick myself even more. i was afraid to leave alabama, and now here i am in new york lol! i am not even looking for or considering traditional attorney jobs..the competition is way too tough. i took a job as a legal recruiter in ny right after i graduated and saw first hand how even attorneys from T14 schools were rejected...and worse, not even invited in to interview at most firms. what''s terrible is that in all of my interviews now, i have to answer ''why not law?'' ''why are you running away from the law??'' unless you know you will have a job, a law degree stigmatizes you and makes it difficult for you to get a job in any other field. that said, if you really want to be a lawyer i''m not here to discourage......i just don''t want you to be sucked in!!!!!

Lala: what''s going on? i thought you got that job????

MLS is a Masters in Library Science. When I got my MLS you also needed to have a law degree (JD) to be a Law Librarian, at least in the DC area.

If you are interested in the law get a job in that field before you commit to a grad degree.

From what you''ve posted your current job is what''s making you rethink your entire career. Did you feel that way at your last job? If not maybe you just need to wait out the economy and change jobs. I think you know that you need to work out this whole career thing for yourself (at least in your own mind) before you think about having kids. That way you can look at your firm career plans and see when would be a good time to have them.

HTH