How come cutter information is not availble to consumers?

[pyramid]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

We know for instance that DF's stone was Cut from rough but how long since it came from the ground 100 years?

A stone not cut from rough may be:

Previously owned diamonds go back to cutting houses too.

Mined in 1644
Cut 1646
Owned by person from 1649 until 1718
Sold
Recut 20 points smaller
Owned by person 1719 until 1750
Inherited
Owned from 1750 until 1790
Sold
Recut 30 points smaller
Owned from 1791 until 1860
Owned from 1861 until 1930
Sold
Owned from 1930 until 1964
Sold
Owned from 1966 until 1974 divorce diamond
Owned from 1976 until 2002
Inherited, Owned from 2002 until present day.

9 owners (2 divorced, 5 deceased)

How would the seller know the history?

 

[sharonyanddave]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

I see no reason why the vendor should not be allowed to keep their sources confidential if they are able to prove that the diamonds are consistently cut to the specification that they tout.

I think it is misleading to say 'cut to our specification' unless the vendor buys a parcel of rough and is actively involved in the planning and cutting process for each piece of rough and also assumes the risk and reward of the finished diamond and its grading.

I don't think 'cut to our specification' is the same as pulling from a cutter's polished and already graded inventory afterwards and 'branding' those that pass their criteria.

"Cut to our specification" implies it is somehow exclusive when in most cases especially with rounds it isn't. I do agree though knowing which cutting house in Antwerp provides ACA diamonds is not necessary.

 

[gr8leo87]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Well simply put you don't know who the vendor is because it's supposed to be kept secret for competition reasons and since many diamonds wholesalers also retail the customer would possibly just approach the factory next time directly.

The dynamics of diamond trade is much different from Cars, Shoes and clothing. And despite that you can't just approach the factory direct and buy your stuff you don't know who produced your shoes in Yiwu or Guangzhou or Vietnam.

Or who produced that hand made leather luxury shoes, because that information is private and irrelevant.

 

[gr8leo87]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

There are many brands who 'browse' and 'brand'. ZARA comes to mind. And along with many other clothing brand in USA and around the world.

 

[DiamondTo]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Well simply put you don't know who the vendor is because it's supposed to be kept secret for competition reasons and since many diamonds wholesalers also retail the customer would possibly just approach the factory next time directly.

The dynamics of diamond trade is much different from Cars, Shoes and clothing. And despite that you can't just approach the factory direct and buy your stuff you don't know who produced your shoes in Yiwu or Guangzhou or Vietnam.

Or who produced that hand made leather luxury shoes, because that information is private and irrelevant.

If you purchased designer shoes and found out later another designer was selling the exact same pair with their logo on it would it not be weird? Not to mention the shoes cost 10-40k

 

[gr8leo87]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Well simply put you don't know who the vendor is because it's supposed to be kept secret for competition reasons and since many diamonds wholesalers also retail the customer would possibly just approach the factory next time directly.

The dynamics of diamond trade is much different from Cars, Shoes and clothing. And despite that you can't just approach the factory direct and buy your stuff you don't know who produced your shoes in Yiwu or Guangzhou or Vietnam.

Or who produced that hand made leather luxury shoes, because that information is private and irrelevant.

If you purchased designer shoes and found out later another designer was selling the exact same pair with their logo on it would it not be weird? Not to mention the shoes cost 10-40k

That's why they say not two diamonds are same. And that's why I wouldn't mind.

 

[DiamondTo]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Well simply put you don't know who the vendor is because it's supposed to be kept secret for competition reasons and since many diamonds wholesalers also retail the customer would possibly just approach the factory next time directly.

The dynamics of diamond trade is much different from Cars, Shoes and clothing. And despite that you can't just approach the factory direct and buy your stuff you don't know who produced your shoes in Yiwu or Guangzhou or Vietnam.

Or who produced that hand made leather luxury shoes, because that information is private and irrelevant.

If you purchased designer shoes and found out later another designer was selling the exact same pair with their logo on it would it not be weird? Not to mention the shoes cost 10-40k

That's why they say not two diamonds are same. And that's why I wouldn't mind.

I know for a fact a diamond was offered by more than one vendor which was also branded
Same diamond same certification

 

[gr8leo87]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Also to add to that 99% of diamonds sold on market including branded are generic cuts despite of their strict criteria. If there were actual IP rights involved even then the relevant factor would have been the design or designer of the diamond over who cut it. Apple designs and engineers the products and then get them produced overseas. That factory may change and but Apple's design may not.

 

[gr8leo87]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Well simply put you don't know who the vendor is because it's supposed to be kept secret for competition reasons and since many diamonds wholesalers also retail the customer would possibly just approach the factory next time directly.

The dynamics of diamond trade is much different from Cars, Shoes and clothing. And despite that you can't just approach the factory direct and buy your stuff you don't know who produced your shoes in Yiwu or Guangzhou or Vietnam.

Or who produced that hand made leather luxury shoes, because that information is private and irrelevant.

If you purchased designer shoes and found out later another designer was selling the exact same pair with their logo on it would it not be weird? Not to mention the shoes cost 10-40k

That's why they say not two diamonds are same. And that's why I wouldn't mind.

I know for a fact a diamond was offered by more than one vendor which was also branded
Same diamond same certification

Atleast one criteria that comes to mind is: for a diamond to be branded it should at least be with the Brand in stock.

However this isn't even followed by one of the biggest retail brands on the market held by one of the biggest diamond mining company. And I see their unused inventory lying with the cutters all the time even after all the branding has been carried out.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

Well simply put you don't know who the vendor is because it's supposed to be kept secret for competition reasons and since many diamonds wholesalers also retail the customer would possibly just approach the factory next time directly.

The dynamics of diamond trade is much different from Cars, Shoes and clothing. And despite that you can't just approach the factory direct and buy your stuff you don't know who produced your shoes in Yiwu or Guangzhou or Vietnam.

Or who produced that hand made leather luxury shoes, because that information is private and irrelevant.

If you purchased designer shoes and found out later another designer was selling the exact same pair with their logo on it would it not be weird? Not to mention the shoes cost 10-40k

That's why they say not two diamonds are same. And that's why I wouldn't mind.

I know for a fact a diamond was offered by more than one vendor which was also branded
Same diamond same certification

That generally happens when the diamond brand markets their diamonds through multiple vendors as opposed to a vendor selecting stones for their own in house brand.

 

[gr8leo87]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

It is also worth mentioning that some branding happens at the vendor level and then there's some branding that happens at the retailer level.
It is entirely possible to come across same branded diamond from different vendors but I would guess the brand would be same. If it was a branded to begin with.

 

[DiamondTo]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

I know for a fact a diamond was offered by more than one vendor which was also branded
Same diamond same certification

That generally happens when the diamond brand markets their diamonds through multiple vendors as opposed to a vendor selecting stones for their own in house brand.

For the sake of those who don't know what's going on
This particular diamond was branded for a vendors own in house brand and offered by multiple vendors

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

IMO, if the stone is well cut it doesn't matter where it came from.

 

[DiamondTo]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

IMO, if the stone is well cut it doesn't matter where it came from.

I generally agree
However if they were marketed as something else then it would matter

 

[sharonyanddave]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

IMO, if the stone is well cut it doesn't matter where it came from.

It actually does matter it affects price. Brands created at the retail level are done so for customer loyalty, to give the appearance of exclusivity, and to protect price. If there was 'perfect' information for the consumer in many cases with diamonds the brand could be ignored and the vendor with the cheapest price for the same goods should get the sale.

 

[yssie]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

I know for a fact a diamond was offered by more than one vendor which was also branded
Same diamond same certification

That generally happens when the diamond brand markets their diamonds through multiple vendors as opposed to a vendor selecting stones for their own in house brand.

For the sake of those who don't know what's going on
This particular diamond was branded for a vendors own in house brand and offered by multiple vendors

The same diamond (same report number) was listed by multiple vendors as one of their in-house offerings?
The same diamond (same report number) was listed by multiple vendors - in one vendor's in-house stock and other vendors' virtual (but possibly still branded) inventories?

The second is very possible: virtual inventories are basically just one big a race condition. I saw a diamond that was listed at both Adiamor and JA and called JA to ask how long it might take for them to have the stone shipped out for me to look at; they said a few days, I wasn't ready to buy that soon so I declined. A week later the diamond was re-listed at JA as a True Hearts stone, but still available on Adiamor's listing for a few more days... while the stone was, in fact, owned by JA and in-house. Nothing underhand going on there - just a victim of the virtual inventory race condition.
(I bought the stone from JA and it remains my best jewellery purchase in years).

The first, for anything more than possibly a day or two... I can't see any way there isn't something underhand going on, unless the situation has been misunderstood (IMO much more likely, especially if we're talking about PS vendors).

 

[sharonyanddave]

Re: How come cutter information is not availble to consumers

The second is very possible: virtual inventories are basically just one big a race condition. I saw a diamond that was listed at both Adiamor and JA and called JA to ask how long it might take for them to have the stone shipped out for me to look at; they said a few days, I wasn't ready to buy that soon so I declined. A week later the diamond was re-listed at JA as a True Hearts stone, but still available on Adiamor's listing for a few more days... while the stone was, in fact, owned by JA and in-house. Nothing underhand going on there - just a victim of the virtual inventory race condition. (I bought the stone from JA and it remains my best jewellery purchase in years).

I agree nothing wrong, but then again James Allen doesn't call their Truehearts 'cut to our specification' or exclusive they are actually pretty honest about it see bolded part. The underlined part is a bit of a stretch but not terrible.

Seen from above, a Hearts and Arrows diamond shows an arrow pattern. When displayed on its pavilion side, the diamond presents the eye with 8 hearts with tiny 'v' shapes. Genuine Hearts and Arrows have these patterns visible at a single glance, indicating that the diamond has perfect optical symmetry.

Our Hearts and Arrows collection are the ultimate expression of love - that's why we call them TrueHeartsTM. Every diamond from our TrueHeartsTM collection is a lasting masterpiece, a perfect diamond."

Hearts and Arrows diamonds are sold under many names - Hearts on Fire and Leo Diamonds are two popular examples. At James Allen, we take pride in presenting only the finest Hearts and Arrows diamonds money can buy - every single TrueHeartsTM diamond we sell is cut and polished at 100X magnification. Furthermore, our exclusive Diamond Display TechnologyTM lets you see any True HeartsTM diamond magnified in 360° so you can see exactly what you are getting.