How do I value my 1ct Brazilian Pariaba?

[Barrett]

Minous, what an excellent response and advice.

I would send it off to AGL sho 'nuff. You will have to get a lab report if you ever want to sell it or even if you decide to keep it your kids and the estate will need some sort of conformation that it's a cuprian so they don't sell as multi-thousand dollar(or hundred) stone for $7 after you die.
A normal tourmaline any gemmo who is even halfway decent can tell you so and so stone is a tourmaline and thats the end of that...with cuprians the price is reflected totally in the presence of Cu molecules acting as the coloring agent...sad to say that requires someone with special doo-dads and thingy-a-ma-jiggy tools/machines to tell if it has that.

 

[PaulaGem]

Duplicate post

 

[PaulaGem]

Post by colormyworld » 30 Sep 2011 17:17
Hi PaulaGem,

Pala would not require a lab report as I am sure they could determine whether your stone is what you claim. For your peace of mind you could have the stone evaluated by a lab. My experience with this company has been an offer of 30 to 40% of what they were selling similar stones for.

That was very helpful, thank you. Would it still be a good idea to send it to them for evaluation?

~Who did you buy it from in Tucson? I may know them. Who was the dealer you showed it to? I might know them as well.

~You can't possibly know just by saying.."I bought it in Tucson and a lot was around and I know the person so that automatically makes it a cuprian tourmaline"
You must understand that.

That's not what I said though. I said I bought out of a lot purchased by a friend who was a cutter. She spent days at the show looking and learning about Paraiba. I bought the one I have because it was lively and I liked it. I intended to have it set in gold, but I don't wear many rings now and I have enough, so I am thinking about selling it.

For crying out loud, do you think I've been in business for 25 years without knowing "The price of your gemstone is worth what someone will pay for it"?

I wouldn't even think of having it appraised based on what I've learned in the last couple of weeks. I think very few people have the experience to appraise these stones.

I also know what an inclusion is. I saw small striations under a 10x loupe. Nothing that indicated weakness in the stone and nothing that interrupted the reflected light. The person I spoke to at Pala said they would not affect the value of the stone.

I also know what Keystone is and how the wholesale market generally works, I sell wholesale. I did not know what kind of a percentage Pala would be offering so that's why that information was so helpful.

Another component of my decision will be the price of a certain stock at the time I sell it. I might take a quick sale at a lower price because I believe the return on investment with this stock will be greater than that on the tourmaline so I'd rather have the money there.

 

[Imdanny]

Double post.

 

[Imdanny]

~Who did you buy it from in Tucson? I may know them. Who was the dealer you showed it to? I might know them as well.

~You can't possibly know just by saying.."I bought it in Tucson and a lot was around and I know the person so that automatically makes it a cuprian tourmaline"
You must understand that.

That's not what I said though. I said I bought out of a lot purchased by a friend who was a cutter. She spent days at the show looking and learning about Paraiba. I bought the one I have because it was lively and I liked it. I intended to have it set in gold, but I don't wear many rings now and I have enough, so I am thinking about selling it.

Um, no. These were your exact words: "I KNOW it's Paraiba because I've had it for over 15 years, and the person I bought it through was known to me."

 

[JewelFreak]

Having been in the business for 25 yrs, Paulagem, you can understand then that nobody can give you a value for your tourmaline without knowing for certain that it is a Paraiba. Wanting to believe it's Paraiba because you trust your vendor won't make you as happy as knowing for sure via AGL. Unless you would rather not know it isn't.

Consider also, as said above, the ramifications if you sold it as a Paraiba & it turned out not to be -- trouble city (see Kelpie's thread on being Scammed on eBay). Pala will not offer you anything like a Paraiba price, either, without certification. They'd be foolish to do otherwise. They probably wouldn't offer better than Indicolite prices unless & until they confirmed its origin & content.

Nobody is scolding you. It's impossible to value a stone from a photo; don't trust anyone who offers to. In what I gather is your part of the business, would you value a ring from a picture without verifying metal & stone quality?

Your choice seems simple to me. Get it certified -- if it's genuine Paraiba you'll make many times the $350 cost; if not, you'll make back the cost & some more. Or keep it & like it as the Paraiba you're sure it is.

---Laurie

 

[Barrett]

I had written this yesterday and didn't post it but saved it but since danny posted my same thoughts...

Post by colormyworld » 30 Sep 2011 17:17
Hi PaulaGem,

Pala would not require a lab report as I am sure they could determine whether your stone is what you claim. For your peace of mind you could have the stone evaluated by a lab. My experience with this company has been an offer of 30 to 40% of what they were selling similar stones for.

That was very helpful, thank you. Would it still be a good idea to send it to them for evaluation?

~Who did you buy it from in Tucson? I may know them. Who was the dealer you showed it to? I might know them as well.

~You can't possibly know just by saying.."I bought it in Tucson and a lot was around and I know the person so that automatically makes it a cuprian tourmaline"
You must understand that.

That's not what I said though. I said I bought out of a lot purchased by a friend who was a cutter. She spent days at the show looking and learning about Paraiba. I bought the one I have because it was lively and I liked it. I intended to have it set in gold, but I don't wear many rings now and I have enough, so I am thinking about selling it.

For crying out loud, do you think I've been in business for 25 years without knowing "The price of your gemstone is worth what someone will pay for it"?

I wouldn't even think of having it appraised based on what I've learned in the last couple of weeks. I think very few people have the experience to appraise these stones.

I also know what an inclusion is. I saw small striations under a 10x loupe. Nothing that indicated weakness in the stone and nothing that interrupted the reflected light. The person I spoke to at Pala said they would not affect the value of the stone.

I also know what Keystone is and how the wholesale market generally works, I sell wholesale. I did not know what kind of a percentage Pala would be offering so that's why that information was so helpful.

Another component of my decision will be the price of a certain stock at the time I sell it. I might take a quick sale at a lower price because I believe the return on investment with this stock will be greater than that on the tourmaline so I'd rather have the money there.

~"I know it is Brazilian Paraiba because I bought it in Tucson in the mid '90s."
~"I KNOW it's Paraiba because I've had it for over 15 years, and the person I bought it through was known to me."
~"I'm almost certain it's Paraiba because it was bought in Tucson in a year where there was a lot of it around."
~"I have had a professional who deals in Pariaba state that he believed that it was one."
~"I have good reason to believe it is and until I am told otherwise by a competent professional who has actually seen the stone or a lab report I will continue under that assumption."
~"I was searching for a way to value a 1ct Paraiba that I bought in Tucson in the mid 90's. I know its provenance, but this thread ....."
~"I have a stone that has been in my possession for fifteen years so I know it is from Brazil."
~"Remember, there was a fair amount of Paraiba in Tucson the year this was purchased..."

I can tell you have been in the trade by your tone and the information you put down, Paula, so at least you won't get taken or fall for some shiesty sh*t. I truly hope your stone is cuprian but I still can't get over the fact you assume it's paraiba. You out of all people should know that assuming anything in the biz will get you lambasted and run out of town real quick.

Keep us posted on how it goes. I for one am very interested as I love cuprian tourmalines. Hang out a while...you might be a good fit here at PS with 25 years under your belt...way more than me and many others. Your experience and expertise would be valuable.

 

[PaulaGem]

Ok, will it make you guys happy if I change "know" to 95% sure? LOL!

Post by PaulaGem » 30 Sep 2011 13:31
I'm almost certain it's Paraiba because it was bought in Tucson in a year where there was a lot of it around. The woman who bought it did some cutting herself and spent several days going to multiple vendors and making her selection. I realize that would not be sufficient for most buyers of the stone, but it certainally increases the odds of it being genuine, wouldn't you think?

Pala is interested in buying the stone, but I don't want to sell it until I have a better idea of its value. They don't have any Paraiba on their site that is this vivid.

The stone was a selection from a lot a friend bought. I bought it because I liked it and never did anything with it. She spent a whole lot more money on them than I did, and I trusted her judgement because of the time she spent making the purchase and learning about the stones.

IMDanny- the "known to me" statement was in the first post. I elaborated later because of the resistance I was getting.

Jewelfreak - Notice that I didn't say "What is my stone worth", I said "How do I value". I'm looking for general parameters and information so I can make a decision. I normally deal with less expensive stones to set in silver, you know, when silver was $4-$7 per ounce. I'm liquidating stock slowly (because I think silver will continue to go up) because of health reasons.

Your choice seems simple to me. Get it certified -- if it's genuine Paraiba you'll make many times the $350 cost; if not, you'll make back the cost & some more. Or keep it & like it as the Paraiba you're sure it is.

So are you saying that the stone is probably worth a minimum of $600 or $800 and even if I spend the money on the testing and it isn't Paraiba I shouldn't be out any money?

I really don't have an interest in keeping it. I just want to dispose of it without getting ripped off. I even understand that if I sell it to a dealer it would be different from selling to a jeweler who has the right market (was thinking of contacting jewelers in Aspen).

If anyone has any more information or comes up with a better comparable on the web I'd appreciate the link. Thanks for your help.

 

[PaulaGem]

Thanks for the info tiptop.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

What I say to you now I say as someone who is currently in the market for Paraiba Tourmaline.

I understand that you would like to get the best price per carat you possibly can. That makes total sense. From my research I would honestly agree that the market is indeed in your favor for getting a strong price.

There are only two ways that you would get me to consider paying what you would like to receive for this stone.
I would need you to agree to one of the following.

1. You have a report from AGL or GIA on the stone. (Since the stone in question is Paraiba I would personally prefer AGL.)

2. I buy it and then personally send the stone to AGL for a prestige report. Upon finding that the stone is indeed what you say it is, then I would consider the transaction complete. If the report proves that the stone is something other than Pariaba, then I would expect you to fully refund my money for the stone and the prestige report.

I have set these requirements before with sellers and most were happy to oblige. (If they would not agree then I would not buy from them.)

Please keep in mind that I am a buyer that has seen a Lab Report prove a seller wrong on many occasions. I would love to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you are a very trustworthy seller, but the simple truth is I don't know you. And even if I did I would probably still require one of the two options I listed above.

Please don't take this the wrong way. I am simply trying to give the perspective of a potential buyer.
Best of Luck!

~Justin

 

[Ella]

A reminder that we do not allow the posting of personal information on the forums and we do not allow sales by trade members on PS.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

A reminder that we do not allow the posting of personal information on the forums and we do not allow sales by trade members on PS.

My sincere apologies I should have clarified. I did not post what I did in order to create a deal with the thread opener. I simply wanted to give a buyers perspective. I have no intention on purchasing the stone posted. I meant this to be taken as a hypothetical situation.

I will choose my words more careful next time.

~Justin

 

[Barrett]

Well said and good post, Justin!!

 

[chrono]

I second the well thought out reply by Justin. It doesn't matter that you are 95% sure it's a Paraiba; your prospective customer isn't likely to take your word for it, especially since there's a good sum of money involved. A solid proof in black and white is always an easier sell than saying "trust me" to a total stranger.

 

[PaulaGem]

I'm not disagreeing with that - but even if I had report in hand confirming that it was Paraiba, I'm STILL not sure what a fair rice would be. I'm going to keep looking for comparables and will appreciate any additional information I get from this board.

Thanks.

 

[SB621]

I'm not disagreeing with that - but even if I had report in hand confirming that it was Paraiba, I'm STILL not sure what a fair rice would be. I'm going to keep looking for comparables and will appreciate any additional information I get from this board.

Thanks.

Does anyone else feel like we are going round in circles?!

 

[TristanC]

Throwing the advice on how we make assumptions of gems out the window; lets play the game.

You have already googled "paraiba tourmaline" (since you spent 2 weeks researching, this must have happened), and checked at least 5 online sources for price per carat of stones approximately 1 ctw and above.

Take an average of 5 prices that you enjoy (higher ones), assume your stone is equivalent or better, and then just shave 30-40% off that to get your hypothetical figure of what you can sell it for, assuming your assumption of quality (big assumption from crappy photos) and authenticity (again big assumption) holds true.

I'm sure you've already done this. So since you have done everything to answer the questions that you said you wanted to know, the continuation of the questioning is confusing to everyone.

You have your theoretical number range, you have your assumptions, and you have people exhorting you to get some body of proof for your assumptions. I think we have this one covered.

 

[PaulaGem]

Of those sources I saw only one or two stones close to the one carat size, the color was different, the quality was different, and the cut was different.

As I said, I still do not have any realistic idea of what the stone is worth so if anyone does come up with some other comparables they would be appreciated.

 

[Roger Dery]

Hi Paula,
Sorry to come late to the conversation.

Since you are in the trade, you may already know of Richard Drucker and his publication ~ "The Gem Guide". Like many gem dealers around the country, I too subscribe year after year not only for the pricing assistance, but also for the insightful and timely articles that are provided with it. Actually, the articles I find of greater value than the pricing segments.

As an additional service to the industry, his staff can assist you with finding the appropriate pricing model for your stone. They will, for a reasonable fee, assist you in finding an answer.

Best to contact them prior to shipping your stone.
http://www.gemguide.com/home.htm

I hope you find this helpful.