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How does the real pigeon blood ruby should look like?

dm-smith said:
What is this orange red and blue red? Does anyone has an example of it? Side by side pic will be amazing
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This spinel has a lab report stating orange-red.

Compare it to the Carmen Lucia ruby above which definitely has this bluish pink undertone. Fire engines and stop signs are an orange red, but fine rubies and spinels can be a pinkish red with blue undertones as I was mentioning. I typically look for the blue when I search for fine ruby or spinel.

D5AEDE19-119B-4F55-BE89-140CC23347DB.jpeg
 
T L said:
This spinel has a lab report stating orange-red.

Compare it to the Carmen Lucia ruby above which definitely has this bluish pink undertone. Fire engines and stop signs are an orange red, but fine rubies and spinels can be a pinkish red with blue undertones as I was mentioning. I typically look for the blue when I search for fine ruby or spinel.

D5AEDE19-119B-4F55-BE89-140CC23347DB.jpeg
Click to expand...

I personally don’t see any orange in your (awesome) spinel, but it could be the photo or my screen :confused:
 
VividRed said:
I think that is an unfair picture of the Sunrise ruby, I like to think it looks more like this:

68256710-D96A-481C-B6B8-AC93B5E31390.jpeg
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I agree the Sunrise does not always look orangish. If sometimes it appears orangish and sometimes it appears bluish, then my best guess is that in real life, it's very well-balanced in terms of "warm" aka orangish vs "cool" aka bluish secondary tone. In all honesty, it's a record setting ruby, so I think the "real" color is probably not orangish.

T L said:
This spinel has a lab report stating orange-red.

Compare it to the Carmen Lucia ruby above which definitely has this bluish pink undertone. Fire engines and stop signs are an orange red, but fine rubies and spinels can be a pinkish red with blue undertones as I was mentioning. I typically look for the blue when I search for fine ruby or spinel.

D5AEDE19-119B-4F55-BE89-140CC23347DB.jpeg
Click to expand...
I disagree that pink in itself has anything to do with a bluish secondary tone. The spinel you're showing us is orangish hot pink, and bluish pinks run more purplish.

Disagree with you also on the stop sign red. Fire engines, poppies, and tomatoes are orangish red, while the classic Valentine's red rose or the color of very fresh blood before oxidizing/browning is a bluish red to me. A stop sign, or a traffic light, is in the middle and a "purer" red (neither orange nor blue) than nature often provides.
 
voce said:
I agree the Sunrise does not always look orangish. If sometimes it appears orangish and sometimes it appears bluish, then my best guess is that in real life, it's very well-balanced in terms of "warm" aka orangish vs "cool" aka bluish secondary tone. In all honesty, it's a record setting ruby, so I think the "real" color is probably not orangish.


I disagree that pink in itself has anything to do with a bluish secondary tone. The spinel you're showing us is orangish hot pink, and bluish pinks run more purplish.

Disagree with you also on the stop sign red. Fire engines, poppies, and tomatoes are orangish red, while the classic Valentine's red rose or the color of very fresh blood before oxidizing/browning is a bluish red to me. A stop sign, or a traffic light, is in the middle and a "purer" red (neither orange nor blue) than nature often provides.
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I don’t see pure red I guess. To me, all reds are either pinkish or orangish. I’m the same way with green, they’re either more yellow or more blue to my eye.
 
T L said:
She’s paying more attention to the ring than her husband of the time. Lol!

I don’t blame her!
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I don’t blame her either LOL!! I wouldn’t be able to take my eyes off of that ring if it was on my finger :kiss2:!
 
I fell in love with this set, affordable but I was too slow to act. Would you consider this as pigeon blood?

Dolly on Instagram: "*** edit sold comment for waitlist *** Ohhhhhh boy Bijoux boxers. The sheer willpower it is taking me to post these…you don’t even KNOW how tortuous this is Most of you know this by now but I’m a collector first, seller second a

395 likes, 16 comments - xothebijouxbox on January 22, 2022: "*** edit sold comment for waitlist *** Ohhhhhh boy Bijoux boxers. The sheer willpower it is taking me to post these…you don’t even KNOW how tortuous this is Most of you know this by now but I’m a collector first, seller second and...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
 
SomethingNew said:
I fell in love with this set, affordable but I was too slow to act. Would you consider this as pigeon blood?

Dolly on Instagram: "*** edit sold comment for waitlist *** Ohhhhhh boy Bijoux boxers. The sheer willpower it is taking me to post these…you don’t even KNOW how tortuous this is Most of you know this by now but I’m a collector first, seller second a

395 likes, 16 comments - xothebijouxbox on January 22, 2022: "*** edit sold comment for waitlist *** Ohhhhhh boy Bijoux boxers. The sheer willpower it is taking me to post these…you don’t even KNOW how tortuous this is Most of you know this by now but I’m a collector first, seller second and...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
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Too brown to be top color (pigeon blood) imho.
 
SomethingNew said:
I fell in love with this set, affordable but I was too slow to act. Would you consider this as pigeon blood?

Dolly on Instagram: "*** edit sold comment for waitlist *** Ohhhhhh boy Bijoux boxers. The sheer willpower it is taking me to post these…you don’t even KNOW how tortuous this is Most of you know this by now but I’m a collector first, seller second a

395 likes, 16 comments - xothebijouxbox on January 22, 2022: "*** edit sold comment for waitlist *** Ohhhhhh boy Bijoux boxers. The sheer willpower it is taking me to post these…you don’t even KNOW how tortuous this is Most of you know this by now but I’m a collector first, seller second and...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
Click to expand...

Rubies look their best in direct sunlight. The color might be close (in this particular light with this particular camera), but there is too much silk and not enough brilliance for the stones to be the valuable "investment" typ of ruby.
 
Tbh, i am still do not understand how the best rubt look like. I look at several natural and chatham ruby in my local jewelry. Everything look like either orangish red or pinkish red to me. Havent seen any blue red. Any suggestions?
 
dm-smith said:
Tbh, i am still do not understand how the best rubt look like. I look at several natural and chatham ruby in my local jewelry. Everything look like either orangish red or pinkish red to me. Havent seen any blue red. Any suggestions?
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The pinkish rubies, such as the one in post #44 just above your post that I'm writing, are the bluish secondary tone, just not saturated enough to be considered a vivid red.

I don't think there is a universal "best". If buying for jewelry you're wearing yourself, you buy what color makes you happy. "Investment" purpose rubies should be above 2 cts, kept unset, and come with an AGL grading report saying very good to excellent total quality.
 
I am having trouble seeing a difference between bluish red and purplish red, probably as theyre both reds with cool modifiers. Is the blue more of a sheen that comes and goes, or part of the gem crystal itself?
I need to see more rubies/spinels IRL with this phenomenon in mind.
 
dm-smith said:
Tbh, i am still do not understand how the best rubt look like. I look at several natural and chatham ruby in my local jewelry. Everything look like either orangish red or pinkish red to me. Havent seen any blue red. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Fine rubies are very rare. 99.9% of what I see in the market place is not top quality, which is why I recommend going to the Smithsonian if you’re ever in DC to see the Carmen Lucia, among other great gems. In my local museum, the rubies in their gem collection are subpar. That speaks volumes!!

That being said, red is the color I’m pickiest about (not so much blues and greens), and ruby is the one major gem I don’t own because almost all rubies don’t do it for me. However, as others alluded to, buy a ruby because YOU love that stone/color, and make sure you’re paying a fair price for all properly disclosed treatment.
 
demantoidz said:
I am having trouble seeing a difference between bluish red and purplish red, probably as theyre both reds with cool modifiers. Is the blue more of a sheen that comes and goes, or part of the gem crystal itself?
I need to see more rubies/spinels IRL with this phenomenon in mind.
Click to expand...

Do you see it in the Carmen Lucia I posted at the beginning of this thread? I see the blue in that one. I’ve seen tons of rubies, and once you see a fine one like that, it destroys all other rubies in my perception. That’s just my opinion.

The orange reds, like the pear spinel I posted, are pretty, but if I don’t see the blue, it’s not fine to me. Now if a reddish stone has too much blue, it’s purplish. It’s just an ever so slight amount that gives the stone an oomph in my opinion.

Others might like orange reds, but the great rubies of the world are blue reds, like Liz’s ring and the Carmen Lucia. There are blue pinks too, which are gorgeous, but as the tone is lighter, they’re considered pink, not red.
 
Here’s an interesting article on ruby color:

The article states:
“Burmese rubies tend to have a rich red color with an undertone of blue, adding depth to the robust color”

Pigeon Blood Ruby : Discover the beauty and power of vivid rubies

Discover the beauty and power of Nature’s most vivid rubies – pigeon blood ruby guide at Israel Diamonds.
www.israel-diamonds.com www.israel-diamonds.com
 
T L said:
Do you see it in the Carmen Lucia I posted at the beginning of this thread? I see the blue in that one. I’ve seen tons of rubies, and once you see a fine one like that, it destroys all other rubies in my perception. That’s just my opinion.

The orange reds, like the pear spinel I posted, are pretty, but if I don’t see the blue, it’s not fine to me. Now if a reddish stone has too much blue, it’s purplish. It’s just an ever so slight amount that gives the stone an oomph in my opinion.

Others might like orange reds, but the great rubies of the world are blue reds, like Liz’s ring and the Carmen Lucia. There are blue pinks too, which are gorgeous, but as the tone is lighter, they’re considered pink, not red.
Click to expand...

I think I understand - so a cool leaning red with a very minor amount of coolness is bluish, while a cooler red crosses the boundary from bluish into purplish. Regarding the Carmen Lucia ruby, I see a very minor cool modifier, but its a bit hard for me to wrap my head around seeing it as bluish (not to say it isn't, just need to get used to it. I'm also not used to looking at pinker rubies.)

I like comparing stones side by side (althought photos are far from perfect). The one on the right is clearly quite strongly purplish, but still red enough to get a Classic Burma designation by AGL. The one on the left is less cool to my eye, but still might be too cool to be considered bluish. What do you think?

From now on when looking at rubies and red spinels I will def havethis parameter in mind. Checking out the article now.

ruby.jpg
 
Same ring in today's outdoor, overcast mid-day light. No bright sunlight today, alas. I love wearing it on sunny days as it fluoresces nicely (but not as intensely as some.) It has a little silk.
Oddly enough this is the first time I've photographed it in the 14 years since I got it. I seem to photograph my pearls more! :)
Anyway...
ruby ring 2 PS.jpg

ruby ring 3 PS.jpeg
 
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This picture shows when it is at its best when the light makes it do that ruby goodness. It can look darker, but it never looses its red.
 
renwea said:
Screenshot_20210120-104038_Photos.jpg
I bought this ruby a few years ago and it has a lotus report that says pigeon blood.
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Mozambique? Nice color, I see a bit of orange modifier which makes me think it is from Mozambique. Still very nice!!
 
demantoidz said:
I am having trouble seeing a difference between bluish red and purplish red, probably as theyre both reds with cool modifiers. Is the blue more of a sheen that comes and goes, or part of the gem crystal itself?
I need to see more rubies/spinels IRL with this phenomenon in mind.
Click to expand...

From an objective color science point of view, red and blue make purple. I think when people talk about bluish or purplish, it's really the same thing, just depends on whether the person describing it prefers to use this adjective or that.

I would personally push back on what @T L claims about the "great rubies of the world". Traditionally the finest rubies come from Burma, which tends to be more bluish. Trying to distinguish the color between the Sunrise and the Carmen Lucia ruby from pictures taken at different times by different cameras and lighting is just ridiculous. There is probably a very small difference, but I don't think you can really objectively say which is better unless you're able to compare side by side under the same circumstances, which to my knowledge has never been done.

The Carmen Lucia ruby, to my recollection, does not have an even color distribution due to a big window, which is why I'd prefer the Elizabeth Taylor ruby to it any day, or even the Sunrise.

 
voce said:
From an objective color science point of view, red and blue make purple. I think when people talk about bluish or purplish, it's really the same thing, just depends on whether the person describing it prefers to use this adjective or that.

I would personally push back on what @T L claims about the "great rubies of the world". Traditionally the finest rubies come from Burma, which tends to be more bluish. Trying to distinguish the color between the Sunrise and the Carmen Lucia ruby from pictures taken at different times by different cameras and lighting is just ridiculous. There is probably a very small difference, but I don't think you can really objectively say which is better unless you're able to compare side by side under the same circumstances, which to my knowledge has never been done.

The Carmen Lucia ruby, to my recollection, does not have an even color distribution due to a big window, which is why I'd prefer the Elizabeth Taylor ruby to it any day, or even the Sunrise.

Click to expand...

Well, the trade ideal are the Burmese stones which are more of a blue red. My opinion doesn’t mean much. We all like what we like.:mrgreen:

I also agree that comparing photos of rubles is unrealistic, but that’s all we have. It’s really difficult to convey fine ruby color in a forum. You need to see them in person.

The Carmen Lucia ruby is readily available to see in person. I think the Liz Taylor ring is in a private collection.
 
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voce said:
The pinkish rubies, such as the one in post #44 just above your post that I'm writing, are the bluish secondary tone, just not saturated enough to be considered a vivid red.

I don't think there is a universal "best". If buying for jewelry you're wearing yourself, you buy what color makes you happy. "Investment" purpose rubies should be above 2 cts, kept unset, and come with an AGL grading report saying very good to excellent total quality.
Click to expand...

+ “classic Burma” (aka AGL’s hidden Pigeon Blood label)
 
I think a lot of people when buying a ruby, because they are so expensive, they want the “best”.
A lot of people place huge emphasis on the origin and designated colour because “Burmese and Pigeon blood red” = the “best”.
The whole concept of “best” is changeable.
Back in the day, seafoam green Aquamarines were all the rage, now it’s the Santa Barber blue.
Pinky / orange sapphires have been mined for centuries, though never particularly popular or desirable until…..
Now they have a special name “Padparadscha” and a price to match while people argue over whether the tone is “too pink / too orange to be called Padparadscha.
Colour in the same variety in gemstones is variable because they are natural. We give certain colours names and then we designate “best” based on a combination of desirability and rarity.
And because of the association with a colour called “pigeon blood red” being the best, that’s what people want on the lab report.
Yet if you lined up a selection of designated “pigeon blood” rubies they won’t all be exactly the same hue and tone, especially from different origins.
I always say buy what you love not the label.
 
@Bron357,
If any lab comes back with the term "pigeon blood" for the color, it should be taken with a grain of salt. Metaphors shouldn't be used to describe color IMHO. I prefer the GIA gemset grades, as imperfect as they may be, at least there's some science behind it, not some mystical name that makes you guess what the color is. If actual hue/saturation/tone grades were used, there would be a lot less confusion, but unfortunately, confusion helps sell gemstones.
 
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