How has higher CS and gold prices changed your purchasing habits?

[asterismdispersion]

My shopping significantly cooled. I'm not planning on acquiring new CS, except for garnet, anytime soon. I choose untreated stones whenever possible so I'm not springing for any unheated ruby and sapphire til I feel I can afford to do so. I do custom projects, and for those, I'm pausing longer to consider whether I want to do 14k or 18k gold. I'll halve my yearly setting project target from 2 to 1, make that ring in platinum, then wait and see. Last year I opted to commission one idea I had in silver instead of gold due to increased gold prices.

 

[fredflintstone]

Hi Fred,
A few comments:
Covid had a big impact on both supply (reduced)
Demand (more rich people got handouts from governments, couldn't travel and spend etc).

De Beers stored diamonds in the ground in economic slumps.
1. by mining less productive parts of their own mines and advising other miners selling through the DTC channel.
2. in some cases they held back certain qualities, like when George Soros collapsed several Asian economies with his greed in 1997. De Beers held back a lot of D to E VVS to Flawless that were the main stones affected at that time. This actually caused the total break up of De Beers as a public company with Botswana and Anglo America taking big shares from the Oppenheimer dynasty.
3. I believe, with no evidence, they may have held back fluorescent diamonds in 1993 after the Korean TV expose that caused the weird flip from blue fluorescent diamonds costing more than non fluorescent diamonds to discounts that have grown because of the fake online news.

De Beers back in the day had a huge stockpile of Diamonds, I remember it all being exposed by the media, I think “60 Minutes.”. They would select which wholesalers would receive Diamonds & which would not. Back then, if DeBeers didn't like you were in trouble.

Things have changed now, but it was through De Beers marketing strategy that Diamonds retained their value and reputation as rare, though in the 70's (cannot remember the exact years) one carat D flawless Diamonds were selling at $75,000, in the USA, Brick and Mortar retail.

Colored stones have been rising in price long before covid. Spinel hit its stride around 2005 when the huge find of top-quality Red and Pink Spinel were found in Mahenge, Tanzania. Price for top red Spinel at 3 carats jumped from $400.00 to $600.00 a carat to $3000.00 a carat in a month, and that is just one example.

 

[elle_71125]

De Beers back in the day had a huge stockpile of Diamonds, I remember it all being exposed by the media, I think “60 Minutes.”. They would select which wholesalers would receive Diamonds & which would not. Back then, if DeBeers didn't like you were in trouble.

Things have changed now, but it was through De Beers marketing strategy that Diamonds retained their value and reputation as rare, though in the 70's (cannot remember the exact years) one carat D flawless Diamonds were selling at $75,000, in the USA, Brick and Mortar retail.

Colored stones have been rising in price long before covid. Spinel hit its stride around 2005 when the huge find of top-quality Red and Pink Spinel were found in Mahenge, Tanzania. Price for top red Spinel at 3 carats jumped from $400.00 to $600.00 a carat to $3000.00 a carat in a month, and that is just one example.

Boy, does that make me wish I knew about & purchased spinel back in the day.

 

[ShinyPink]

Share share… what did you get?

Here they are! Emerald pair, unheated ruby, rubellite, lavender spinel pair:







Ya, I know...

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

De Beers back in the day had a huge stockpile of Diamonds, I remember it all being exposed by the media, I think “60 Minutes.”. They would select which wholesalers would receive Diamonds & which would not. Back then, if DeBeers didn't like you were in trouble.

Things have changed now, but it was through De Beers marketing strategy that Diamonds retained their value and reputation as rare, though in the 70's (cannot remember the exact years) one carat D flawless Diamonds were selling at $75,000, in the USA, Brick and Mortar retail.

Colored stones have been rising in price long before covid. Spinel hit its stride around 2005 when the huge find of top-quality Red and Pink Spinel were found in Mahenge, Tanzania. Price for top red Spinel at 3 carats jumped from $400.00 to $600.00 a carat to $3000.00 a carat in a month, and that is just one example.

Journalists always hated big successful companies and loved to bash luxury products Fred.. they still do.
The only time DB had safes full of diamonds was when the first shipments of Argyle rough at $6 a carat arrived. No one in London or Antwerp had safes big enough. DB didn't know what to do with them. Gradually RioTinto and Ashton trained and equipped Indians who built multi storey factories and industrialized diamond manufacturing.
De Beers hated Argyle and the relationship only lasted a decade when DBs dumped lots of Argyle rough to hurt Argyle.
DoH!
RioTinto was 20 times the size of DBs. Then DBs realized Argyle knew stuff about diamonds they didn't. They made a takeover bid for Ashton Mining, the prospecting company who found Argyle and Ellendale. Rio out bid them. I am buddies with Ewen Tyler who started the search in 1969.

I am no fan of De Beers, but like you I do not like misinformation that becomes truth Fred.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

in the 70's (cannot remember the exact years) one carat D flawless Diamonds were selling at $75,000,

That was a time of hyper inflation and bore.no reality real life. Normal diamonds didn't go up like that.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Here they are! Emerald pair, unheated ruby, rubellite, lavender spinel pair:







Ya, I know...

Gorgeous!!!!! I have a soft spot for rubellite!!!! Yours is beautiful!!! As is your ruby!!!

 

[dk168]

I have many loose stones still to set, and have set the lesser/cheaper ones in Rhodium plated Silver with Moissy instead of earth-mined diamonds (the bench I use does not have many requests for LGDs so they don't stock/use them).

This way, I get the look for less.

I only have one CS on my bling wish list and that is a good size Paraiba cabochon, and would probably set up a savings account just for it so that I have the funds available when I see one that I like, like the 8k+ USD one that I saw at Tucson this year!

DK

 

[Lovey Lace]

I’ve just stopped buying! It is simply too expensive to buy the larger stones that I love and the cost to set big stones is astronomical especially since I am into big frufru settings. I am glad I did my projects last year though. I just haven’t been able to get into it this year.

As I have many rings already, I am just going to wear the heck out of them and enjoy them.

Sooooo happy I bought my jade bangles though! You can barely get colour these days for reasonable prices.

Am interested to see what will happen when a recession hits. Surely people will stop paying stupid prices for snot sized gems.

hehe have been buying cheapish pearls. That scratches the shopping itch somewhat. And exercising.

@mellowyellowgirl - off topic but i just want to say, the heart shaped ring in your profile pic is so pretty and unique! Is it jade? I love the size and the finger coverage. I'm normally not into hearts but it looks so interesting for this stone.

On topic, I've been looking for a pink garnet and a pretty tanzanite so I'd still buy those. I'd only buy stuff I plan to set soon. I like Precision Gem and Jeff Davies as I find their prices reasonable compared to others. I like to remind myself that whatever I buy going forward should be heirloom or forever pieces, to help avoid the trap of fast fashion mentality or buying something on a whim just to have something new but don't really love it.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@mellowyellowgirl - off topic but i just want to say, the heart shaped ring in your profile pic is so pretty and unique! Is it jade? I love the size and the finger coverage. I'm normally not into hearts but it looks so interesting for this stone.

On topic, I've been looking for a pink garnet and a pretty tanzanite so I'd still buy those. I'd only buy stuff I plan to set soon. I like Precision Gem and Jeff Davies as I find their prices reasonable compared to others. I like to remind myself that whatever I buy going forward should be heirloom or forever pieces, to help avoid the trap of fast fashion mentality or buying something on a whim just to have something new but don't really love it.

Yes it is Jade!

Here are some more pics!

 

[LilAlex]

Hmm… I have set stones in pricier settings in the past. But am a lot more conscious now to skip most small stones cos they cost almost the same to set as big stones, so the setting cost to carat ratio simply doesn’t work for me. Like might as well set a big stone that has more presence right?

That's the point of this thread title. A big, fine, unheated sapphire with "presence" is now a year of college. That's why I no longer adhere to my old rule of not setting inexpensive stones. I understand the ratio; it is newly no longer a big deal for me.

 

[icy_jade]

As much as I appreciate the exercise of valuing what you already have, it's simply not as fun as buying new stuff.

I totally get that

Here they are! Emerald pair, unheated ruby, rubellite, lavender spinel pair:

So much pretty!

That's the point of this thread title.

I know, but I did also mention gold prices. It just doesn’t make sense to buy and set itty bitty stones any more whereas in the past maybe I wouldn’t have minded so much. Now it’s like ok the stone price is ok but the setting cost will be xxxx money.

 

[qubitasaurus]

I think the gold prices are effecting my enthusiasm for setting.

The high CS prices aren't doing much to change my buying. I would attribute this firstly to the fact that I didn't buy that much to start with, often saving well past the point where I had enough cash set aside for the purchase. And secondly to the perverse tendency i have to think more expensive is more desirable/better. I have no idea why I do this. But I can point to piles of branded stuff (especially child related) lying arround the house that got used once or twice then discarded for the old 'non branded' item we already had which realistically worked better for us. So clearly I buy based on whether others assign it a high price tag.

 

[fredflintstone]

That was a time of hyper inflation and bore.no reality real life. Normal diamonds didn't go up like that.

That still remains a fact, $75,000, for a one carat D flawless. Other stones at the time were not as super inflated.

 

[fredflintstone]

Journalists always hated big successful companies and loved to bash luxury products Fred.. they still do.
The only time DB had safes full of diamonds was when the first shipments of Argyle rough at $6 a carat arrived. No one in London or Antwerp had safes big enough. DB didn't know what to do with them. Gradually RioTinto and Ashton trained and equipped Indians who built multi storey factories and industrialized diamond manufacturing.
De Beers hated Argyle and the relationship only lasted a decade when DBs dumped lots of Argyle rough to hurt Argyle.
DoH!
RioTinto was 20 times the size of DBs. Then DBs realized Argyle knew stuff about diamonds they didn't. They made a takeover bid for Ashton Mining, the prospecting company who found Argyle and Ellendale. Rio out bid them. I am buddies with Ewen Tyler who started the search in 1969.

I am no fan of De Beers, but like you I do not like misinformation that becomes truth Fred.

You sale Diamonds, of course your opinion would be that the media loved to besmirch luxury goods, it still does not make it any less true about De Beers business practices. Just like the expose from the media on Emeralds and all the treatments that many consumers did not know about. This hurt the Emerald trade in the USA for several years, but every word reported was true. Same with the BE treated Pads, oranges and yellow Sapphires in the late 90’s and early 2000's, do you think the trade in Thailand would have told the public, no, it was the media.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

You sale Diamonds, of course your opinion would be that the media loved to besmirch luxury goods, it still does not make it any less true about De Beers business practices. Just like the expose from the media on Emeralds and all the treatments that many consumers did not know about. This hurt the Emerald trade in the USA for several years, but every word reported was true. Same with the BE treated Pads, oranges and yellow Sapphires in the late 90’s and early 2000's, do you think the trade in Thailand would have told the public, no, it was the media.

Fred I do not understand how you can compare an monopolist companies behaviour to individuals and companies that cheat consumers and retailers with undisclosed treatments?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

That still remains a fact, $75,000, for a one carat D flawless. Other stones at the time were not as super inflated.

That is the same as what I wrote Fred.
Crazy people invested in D Flawless diamonds because they thought they were a hedge against inflation. G SI goods hardly went up in value at all!
But at that very same time all over the rich world there were full page newspaper adds for emeralds rubies and sapphires as investment hedges. Of course the gems and diamonds were sold at price higher than they are worth today.
Please don't make colored gems out to be different to diamonds?

 

[fredflintstone]

That is the same as what I wrote Fred.
Crazy people invested in D Flawless diamonds because they thought they were a hedge against inflation. G SI goods hardly went up in value at all!
But at that very same time all over the rich world there were full page newspaper adds for emeralds rubies and sapphires as investment hedges. Of course the gems and diamonds were sold at price higher than they are worth today.
Please don't make colored gems out to be different to diamonds?

No, most colored gemstones today are much more costly than the 70's. Just take a look at auction houses and what color is bringing, compared to the 70's. You are not a colored stone dealer, so I would think your knowledge is somewhat limited to really how much color has risen in gemstones. All due respect as this in not meant in a derogatory matter, but your forte is Diamonds, not colored gemstones. You speak of the big three, Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald. They have risen in price greatly, but I’m also speaking of 80&% of all colored gemstones species, not just the big three.

It was high end colorless Diamonds that hit ridiculous prices back then, but you could get a colored diamond for a song in the 70's as compared to today. People thought colored Diamonds were basically inferior with a few exceptions until the late 80's, when they started hitting their stride.

 

[fredflintstone]

Fred I do not understand how you can compare an monopolist companies behaviour to individuals and companies that cheat consumers and retailers with undisclosed treatments?

I'm not calling or comparing your ethics to DeBeers, but you have a horse in the Diamond game, you’re going to protect your product, I would. So would most everyone else whose living depends on Diamonds. So, I can understand your dislike of the media, but that does not mean what they reported about De Beers and Emeralds, were untrue. They were true and I'm not saying you condoned this, but the fact is this was going on at the time, and still is with certain gemstones.

It was common practice for many jewelers not to disclose Emerald treatments to consumers in the USA years ago. Cannot speak for your country, but in mine, that was business as normal.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

No, most colored gemstones today are much more costly than the 70's. Just take a look at auction houses and what color is bringing, compared to the 70's. You are not a colored stone dealer, so I would think your knowledge is somewhat limited to really how much color has risen in gemstones. All due respect as this in not meant in a derogatory matter, but your forte is Diamonds, not colored gemstones. You speak of the big three, Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald. They have risen in price greatly, but I’m also speaking of 80&% of all colored gemstones species, not just the big three.

It was high end colorless Diamonds that hit ridiculous prices back then, but you could get a colored diamond for a song in the 70's as compared to today. People thought colored Diamonds were basically inferior with a few exceptions until the late 80's, when they started hitting their stride.

Fred 30% of my sales are colored gems. I deal with folk in Jaipur, Sri Lanka and Thailand. and like you have been around a while - 46th year.
Every year 2 or 3 people come into my 2 stores with sealed gems and diamonds purchased late 70's and they are still not worth what they paid for them 50 years ago!

 

[fredflintstone]

Fred 30% of my sales are colored gems. I deal with folk in Jaipur, Sri Lanka and Thailand. and like you have been around a while - 46th year.
Every year 2 or 3 people come into my 2 stores with sealed gems and diamonds purchased late 70's and they are still not worth what they paid for them 50 years ago!

I'm not going to argue the point with you anymore as all my sales were all from colored stones. From 15 or more different countries. I know they have risen in price. I have even gave an example earlier on Red and Pink Spinel.

Say what you will. I have other things to do.

Peace.

 

[ShinyPink]

Oh, my...

 

[Lovey Lace]

Yes it is Jade!

Here are some more pics!

@mellowyellowgirl - That is a seriously awesome ring. If you have any threads on it, I'd love to read it. Where did you get it, who made that nice setting, and all that.

 

[Neptune]

I know, but I did also mention gold prices. It just doesn’t make sense to buy and set itty bitty stones any more whereas in the past maybe I wouldn’t have minded so much. Now it’s like ok the stone price is ok but the setting cost will be xxxx money.

Itty bitty and @icy_jade aren't closely associated, imo. Haha.

 

[icy_jade]

Itty bitty and @icy_jade aren't closely associated, imo. Haha.

Luckily I’m in good company in Pricescope, including you.

 

[E H]

The rule of thumb always the same, grab beautiful gem from the newly found (and less favorable) origin. Like mozambique ruby ages ago. Right now might be your last chance to buy those beautiful zambian emerald. Even the kashmir like untreated madagascar blue sapphire, you can still get them south of 20k/ct. I know it sounds expensive, but 5-10y from today you hope that you buy more of it.

 

[Kalynna]

That still remains a fact, $75,000, for a one carat D flawless. Other stones at the time were not as super inflated.

That's about $565k in today's money...ouch.

I wasn't around when colored stones were cheaper, so I mainly look at online pawn shops and vintage stores with super outdated websites who may not have kept up with the times. I also have a GIA account so I can easily send things in to be tested. Usually, I think about how much I'd be willing to pay for the setting it's in, then factor that into the calculation as to whether it's a REAL alexandrite, sapphire, etc.

Reddit and the easy ability to communicate with vendors halfway around the world has also opened a whole new realm of possibilities. I recently had a semi mound made for about $300 that looks amazing. Also, has anyone started looking at lab stones as a replacement to the more costly colored stones (i.e. Kashmir sapphires, emeralds, pads, etc.)?

 

[LilAlex]

Every year 2 or 3 people come into my 2 stores with sealed gems and diamonds purchased late 70's and they are still not worth what they paid for them 50 years ago!

Friend inherited one of those. A 1+ ct diamond purchased in '79 or '80 or '81 that was $10K then. Never set; sat in a safe deposit box. Was just appraised for [drumroll] $10K in 2022.

 

[icy_jade]

Also, has anyone started looking at lab stones as a replacement to the more costly colored stones (i.e. Kashmir sapphires, emeralds, pads, etc.)?

Can have a look at this thread:

Purists... how far do you go?

Tyty's thread (which I do not want to thread-jack) about earth mined vs. lab grown got me thinking (again) about how far one is willing to go. I am a purist... and it is a real mind clean PITA. For instance, I only want earth mined non-enhanced in any way diamonds. And colored stones... so...

www.pricescope.com

 

[Neptune]

Luckily I’m in good company in Pricescope, including you.

Yeah, and I'm not afraid to admit that aging eyesight is real.