How is this 2.6? Please help, esp. Mara!

[leeenie]

How does this stone look?

Measurements: 8.83 - 8.89 x 5.44 mm
Carat Weight: 2.60
Color Grade: I
Clarity Grade: VS2
Depth: 61.4 %
Table: 56 %
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Culet: Very Small
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 15.5 %
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 42.5 %
Star length: 45 %
Lower Half: 80 %
Cut Grade: Excellent


The HCA says 2.5 and it looks to be just outside of the white AGS outline on the chart. I''ve seen the stone though, and it is beautiful. I just want to make sure the numbers are ok!

thanks!!!

 

[Jensia]

Mine is a 2.3 on the scale, and is also hearts and arrows. It is just perfect. From what i understand a lot of the H&A ''s fall
in the 2 catagory.

Jensia

 

[aljdewey]

TG.....tough to say. If you''ve seen the stone and you like it, then of course, that''s most important.

Having said that, I ran it through Dave Atlas'' DIY Cut Grading, and it ranked as follows:

Cut Grading Report for Round Cut Stones

Shape: Round
Table % 56.0% Grade: 1A
Crown Angle 35.5° Grade: 2A
Crown Height % 15.5% Grade: 1A
Pavilion Depth % 42.5% Grade: 1B
Girdle Thickness Thin to Medium Grade: 1A
Total Depth % 61.40% Grade: 1A
Polish Excellent / Very Good Grade: 1A * Not a primary determining factor.
Symmetry Excellent / Very Good Grade: 1A * Not a primary determining factor.

Final Grade: 1B


It really depends on how much of a purist you want to be about cut. It gets dinged for the steep crown angle (when paired with the pavilion relationship) and for the pavilion depth. At 1B, it''s still a lovely stone and still well above-average.

If it were me (and likely Mara too, although I won''t speak for her...she''ll likely chime in).......I''d consider it if I couldn''t find better, but if better was available, I''d probably go with better/tighter specs. If I''m going to spend that amount of money, I want the top-shelf....but again, that''s me.

You liked it, so that''s really the most important thing. It''s by NO means a ''dog''. I''d say it''s probably an A-minus.

 

[JulieN]

What setting did you pick?

 

[Mara]

it looks promising teagreen, i am kind of a stickler on the whole angle thing and 35.5 is outside of my own comfort range, but you say you have seen it and you love it so that counts for A LOT and also the specs are very nice other than the crown angle...the pavilion compensates nicely for it and many people would still consider a 35.5 crown angle. the diameter is nice, everything else looks good except for the VG for symm which might bug me but not if the internal stone symmetry looked good to me. have you seen the arrows pattern on the stone? is it an actual H&A or just a very well-cut stone? is it priced competitively?

the reason i personally am a stickler on this stuff is that i have had a stone outside of my own range, and i wasn't happy with it in the end. it bugged me because i felt like i could have gotten better if i had just waited, done more research etc esp for what we paid which was basically the price for a H&A but we didn't get one. for me the whole excellent cut thing is a total 'mind-clean' thing. i have to have it. stones like this are hard to come by now, so if you can't wait for something SUPER particular, then this could be a contender, ESPECIALLY since your eyes loved it and that does mean a lot. hope this helps, just my own thoughts.

 

[KristyDarling]

If you''ve seen it in person and you like it, then there''s your answer!

My stone is an AGS0 (old cert) with a CA of 35.4 and PA of 40.9. That''s outside the range of what many spec-sticklers here are willing to consider, but in a visual test with a comparably sized stone that had "perfect" numbers, mine was actually more beautiful! Go figure! My HCA is also over 2...I think it''s a 2.8! [gasp] But inexplicably, it outshines and outsparkles many ideal stones that I''ve seen. It also has arrows to die for. I am obsessive about keeping it clean...that helps too!

 

[leeenie]

Thanks Jensia, alj and Mara. Hmm, tough!!!

I saw arrows and hearts w/a viewer, but I don''t think it''s a "true H&A" (though I don''t really know what qualifies as a "true H&A"). I can get it for under $22,500, if that helps the analysis.

The problem is that I haven''t been to a place like Whiteflash where I could look at a bunch of stones with slight variances in specs to know for sure what I would like best. This stone looked beautiful to me, but I haven''t seen a "true H&A" or something with better numbers, so I wouldn''t know if the difference would mean anything to me. Any thoughts?

What exactly would be the visual difference in a stone with a lower crown angle - sparklier or something else?

Thanks!!

 

[leeenie]

Thanks Kristy, that''s encouraging. I do love the way it looks, but since I wasn''t able to compare it side-by-side like you, I''m afraid of regretting it later down the road.

I don''t think there is too much out there right now in similar sizes; the seller was in Vegas and said prices for an SI of similar specs otherwise would cost him more to buy than the price of this one. On one hand, I do think it''s beautiful and I''m impatient and want it and don''t want to pass it up if I wouldn''t be able to tell the difference anyway, but on the other hand, I don''t want to think "what if," but that would only be if I could actually tell the difference from an "ideal" or "1A" stone.

Re: settings, I think I want plain platinum 6-prong, possibly from Superbcert, but I am a little hesitant because of the whole warranty issue and Demelza''s problem, so I haven''t decided.

 

[JulieN]

Date: 6/7/2006 10:28:27 PM
Author: teagreen
What exactly would be the visual difference in a stone with a lower crown angle - sparklier or something else?

Less leakage.

 

[hoorray]

I think Mara hit the nail on the head here, especially since you have seen this stone. Sometimes the cut specs become a
mind clean" thing over a true visual thing. The real test is your eyes. if you think it is beautiful in lots of different, everyday light, (not just the brights of the store!), then go for it. There might be a better stone out there spec-wise, but whether you would see the difference is one question. This is where the whole "mind clean" thing comes in. It''s easy to fall into the second guessing camp -- with people constantly posting about the "blazing, awesome, beter than imagined, ..... "stone they just received. If you haven''t see a lot of these stones, and don''t know how yours compares, its easy to second guess what could have been.

The bottom line is if it flashes, sparkles, and throws off colors so that you think it''s beautiful, that''s what matters. Not what the papers say. But you have to be comfortable with it long term.

 

[Mara]

teagreen what are you looking for? size? color?

here is what i think..if you can see this stone compared to one from an online vendor then i would do it. i know WF has a 2.57 J SI1 ACA right now that looks cherry for something like $19k. if you can, i would order that stone, or one similar to what you are looking at (locally i guess?) and compare the two...in all sorts of lighting, under the H&A viewer, under an idealscope etc. i don''t know if you''d consider a J but i don''t think you''d see much if any difference between the two being basically the same size.

this way you can set your mind at ease in terms of not having compared anything superideal or similar to this stone, maybe you will see NO difference and then you will be happy with this stone. or maybe the 2.57 would speak more to you. it just depends on what your eye likes to see. and then you can at least say okay well i saw one superideal and compared it to this stone...rather than thinking that this stone looks good but maybe second-guessing it later.

this from a chronic second-guesser in terms of cut quality...i know i won''t be happy with anything but the best and that''s why the specs i have for my stones are sooo picky, because i just know how i am. give me a good SI2 and i''m happy but i need top cut quality or else i will nitpick it all the way home and then some, esp for a ring stone. for a pendant or something i wouldn''t be as strict but for a ring stone i need to know it''s got top specs.

 

[leeenie]

Interesting - that WF 2.57 is new, right? I remember looking a few weeks ago and don''t remember that one. I would definitely consider a J, and there would be little to no difference in visual size, right? The inclusions also look decent. Oh, and I am definitely looking for size!

I think I''m going to let the 2.6 go - I am a chronic second-guesser with everything (except a mate!). My fear is that prices will go up significantly before I find something better, but in the long run, having saved a thousand or two won''t really make me feel better for not having something "perfect." I don''t plan on upgrading later, either, so I want to have something I''ll love forever!

I''m also just feeling impatient, like I want something NOW, but I need to control that

Thanks!

 

[Dancing Fire]

TG
if you''re considering a J color,you should talk to Brian about the 2.57ct ACA.

 

[Mara]

teagreen, yeah the 2.57 went up last week i think? someone posted it for someone else and i went DAMN that is a nice stone...but i think greg would have killed me if i came home after spending even more $$ with something even larger. hehee. but yeah the 2.57 looks really sweet and it is the biggest in the 2 range they have had in a while. pickins are so slim.

honestly between the 2.6 you posted and the 2.57 i'd rather have the 2.57 mostly for cut quality and the ACA brand and it's $2k cheaper. and with the depth of this 2.6 and the lower depth of the 2.57 i think they have the same diameter range.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-2409249.htm
ETA here is the link and yes the mm on the 2.57 is average of 8.85, while the 2.60 is 8.86 average. so same visual size.

HEY! I just noticed something! The AGS cert says it's a VS1! But the stone is listed as an SI1. I'd call WF right away and see what is up with that..maybe you can get a stellar deal?!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 6/8/2006 3:22:26 AM
Author: teagreen
Interesting - that WF 2.57 is new, right? I remember looking a few weeks ago and don''t remember that one. I would definitely consider a J, and there would be little to no difference in visual size, right? The inclusions also look decent. Oh, and I am definitely looking for size!

I think I''m going to let the 2.6 go - I am a chronic second-guesser with everything (except a mate!). My fear is that prices will go up significantly before I find something better, but in the long run, having saved a thousand or two won''t really make me feel better for not having something ''perfect.'' I don''t plan on upgrading later, either, so I want to have something I''ll love forever!

I''m also just feeling impatient, like I want something NOW, but I need to control that

Thanks!

Boy, do I know about the impatient "NOW" thing!! LOL

If you''re really in the market now, I''d make an appointment to hop on a flight to TX. For a few hundred round trip, you could do EXACTLY what you''re saying you want to do and see a bunch of ideally cut stones over 2 ct. If you like the 2.57 - SCORE! Looks like an amazing stone.

They also have a yummy 2.16 J VS2 with faint blue in their ES line http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-2408711.htm

 

[Kim N]

Date: 6/7/2006 9:04:28 PM
Author: Mara
i am kind of a stickler on the whole angle thing and 35.5 is outside of my own comfort range

Mara, just wondering, would you consider 34.9 outside of your range? I think if I remember correctly, you had a couple of stones with 34.9. Would you still consider that within your range?

 

[Mara]

Date: 6/8/2006 12:13:36 PM
Author: Kim N

Date: 6/7/2006 9:04:28 PM
Author: Mara
i am kind of a stickler on the whole angle thing and 35.5 is outside of my own comfort range

Mara, just wondering, would you consider 34.9 outside of your range? I think if I remember correctly, you had a couple of stones with 34.9. Would you still consider that within your range?

Yes I would if the other specs were spot on...I think my last stone (the 1.6) was a 34.9 with a 40.9 pav angle, and it was awesome...combined with the right table and depth and a great IS image, I would totally do 34.9 again.

 

[leeenie]

That does look like a great stone (as far as I can tell). Maybe I''ll have it sent to me so I can see it - but if I return it, I''ll be spending 100+ on shipping & insurance both ways, I''m guessing? Which makes flying there an interesting idea, but this 2.57 would be the only possibility, so by flying there I would just get to see ideal cuts in other sizes to compare. Did you guys have stones shipped out to you before deciding (and Mara, before going to Houston for your current one?)?

 

[Kim N]

Date: 6/8/2006 12:15:20 PM
Author: Mara

Yes I would if the other specs were spot on...I think my last stone (the 1.6) was a 34.9 with a 40.9 pav angle, and it was awesome...combined with the right table and depth and a great IS image, I would totally do 34.9 again.

Thanks!

 

[leeenie]

peonygirl, I think I''m keeping it, since my fiance''s family had it made for me. I''ll probably put a tanzanite or something in it later. But if I change my mind, I''ll let you know!

 

[peonygirl]

Thanks for writing back! It''s a beautiful setting, and don''t forget to post pics if you end up putting another stone in it!

 

[Mara]

teagreen, WF only had the one stone so i knew i wanted it, but you could see the 2.16 to compare and also they have a 2.04 I SI i think, so you could compare color too. the ticket out is like $250 from SJC...but then if you stayed overnight it would cost more etc.

since they only have one or two stones to look at in that range right now, i'd just have it shipped out. OR you could have it shipped to a local appraiser without having to pay for the stone, but you couldn't take the stone home to check out. i don't know if WF charges you for shipping on both ways if you don't keep the stone or not. but it's worth asking what you do have to pay for it you don't keep it. though honestly if you are spending $20k, $100 to see it and have it in your hands is not much to ask for.

esp to compare to the 2.60!

 

[leeenie]

Ok, I''ve reserved it until tomorrow and I''ll decide whether to have it shipped out.

What do you think of the inclusions on the edge? If they''re feathers, I''d worry about chipping, but I can''t tell if they''re feathers or not.

 

[Mara]

teagreen i''d ask WF what they think re: the stone, it is in house and they can see it, and tell you their thoughts, i dont know if brian is available today but maybe ask to speak to him on eyeballing the stone in person. i definitely trust his eyes! i dont know if its a vs or si but it looks very clean.

 

[leeenie]

Ok, so I''m still looking. I decided against the WF stone because I would rather have a GIA certed stone.

My question now is: would all AGS 000 stones score under 2 on the HCA?

The jeweler who has the original stone said he doesn''t have any others in the size I''m looking for, but does have other sizes of AGS 000s that I could look at to compare with that stone. If they look the same to me, is it safe to assume that a stone with a lower crown angle would have almost no visual difference to me?

 

[Mara]

teagreen, the WF 2.57 had an AGS? but you want a GIA?

honestly, i would be happy with an AGS or GIA...they both are awesome and i'd probably even prefer an AGS over a GIA as splitting hairs. and that stone is awesome! don't turn it down just because of a cert???

WF also has a 2.53 H SI2 but the 40x mag is a little messy looking, so not sure on clarity there. they also have a 2.5 H VS but it's $39k! not sure what your budget is.

 

[leeenie]

I know everyone will think I''m nuts, but I would just prefer to have a GIA for a couple reasons...one, it is generally more accepted in trade-in situations - I know WF has an upgrade policy, but what if WF no longer exists at a time I want to upgrade? Two, a diamond dealer who is a trusted contact, whose family has been in the business for several generations, and who had no financial incentive to lie (I wasn''t going to purchase from him) told me that AGS tends to be more lenient than GIA. If that''s not the case, I figure it can''t hurt to have a GIA anyway, even if it is possible that a particular AGS stone will be rated strictly...by the way, do you know why all of WF''s ACAs are AGS only?

Oh, also Mara, the 2.575 you found that you also pointed out was actually a VS2, was mistakenly priced as an SI1, so it''s actually 22,995 now.

Jamie at WF has an eye out for me right now; I''d like to stay around 23K or lower, so probably I-J VS2-SI1-SI2; ideally J SI2 for size, but there just isn''t much out there!

Any thoughts on the AGS 000 thing?

 

[whatmeworry]

no not all AGS0 will get HCA less than 2. You can easily see for yourself by using the Cut Quality Search tool here on Pricescope. This doesn''t mean that AGS0 with HCA greater than 2 won''t be a gorgeous diamond.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/23/2006 6:52:20 PM
Author: teagreen
I know everyone will think I''m nuts, but I would just prefer to have a GIA for a couple reasons...one, it is generally more accepted in trade-in situations - I know WF has an upgrade policy, but what if WF no longer exists at a time I want to upgrade? Two, a diamond dealer who is a trusted contact, whose family has been in the business for several generations, and who had no financial incentive to lie (I wasn''t going to purchase from him) told me that AGS tends to be more lenient than GIA. If that''s not the case, I figure it can''t hurt to have a GIA anyway, even if it is possible that a particular AGS stone will be rated strictly...by the way, do you know why all of WF''s ACAs are AGS only?


Any thoughts on the AGS 000 thing?

not true

i bought AGS,GIA,EGL USA stones in the pass and AGS would be my #1 pick lab with everything being equal. your diamond dealer is a older generation type of dealer,that''s why he prefer GIA.

 

[Mara]

yeah i don't agree with the whole AGS being more lenient or GIA more desirable...in fact i find AGS more desirable than GIA...esp in light of recent cut grading and their little grading fiasco. i also think of AGS as more 'upscale' and GIA is kind of more mainstream. i would take GIA or AGS in a heartbeat, my two preferred labs.

i don't know why WF has AGS on all it's ACA's but i always thought it was more of an upscale kind of thing...like the ES's get GIA and ACA gets AGS. but who knows. that's just my perception.

i also kind of agree that an older school jeweler would feel more comfy with GIA than AGS just based on experience. AGS to me is a more modern thing. in terms of who knows if WF will be around when you upgrade..well who is to say what kind of reputation GIA will have in 10 years? or who is to say anything definitive in 10 years or however long. there are really absolutely no guarantees.

anyway i think it's a little silly to pass up a totally cherry, branded H&A stone because of the CERT being AGS and not GIA, but it's not me shopping so...

it doesn't really matter what i think. so, keep us posted on what else you find!