How much do you value retirement?

[Erin]

I''m asking this poll on behalf of one of my guy friends. He is 39, divorced with two children under age 10. His girlfriend of a couple years wants to get married and have at least one child together. Everyone lives within 25 miles of each other. Of his four grandparents and two parents, none of them lived past 70. That''s something he thinks about.

Turns out, he can stick to his original plan he''s had for years - before he ever thought he would be divorced - of retiring at age 60, playing golf at his leisure, having a winter home in Arizona, enjoying his retirement with ample money.

Or, (in his words), he can suck it up and say, I have a chance at a new life with a girl who will allow me to have the family life I always dreamed of having. But let''s say I have this child at age 40 and they graduate high school and go to college when I''m around age 60. There goes retirement.

In comparison, both are good and bad for different reasons. I just don''t know which one in the end will ultimately leave me the most happy in my life.

 

[Aloros]

Can''t the kids pay for college on their own? There are a gazillion scholarships out there, and it''s more than possible to work a part-time job while attending school. I know plenty of people who did it on their own, with no significant hardship.

Then your friend gets his retirement, and his kids get to "build character".

 

[Circe]

Alternately, even if their high school grades aren''t stellar (mine, for example, were a pretty neat split between the humanities, where I earned A''s, and the sciences, where I earned C''s ... if I was lucky), city colleges are a terrific option: my parents paid for my college education at a rate that roughly equaled what a single term at a liberal arts college would have cost for all four years. Once I could match my classes to my interests, I earned scholarships to put myself through grad. school.

 

[deorwine]

Well, sounds like his girlfriend has a dream (having and supporting a kid together) and he has a dream (retirement with ample money) and they need to work together about this. Maybe both can''t really come true at the same time, but they can both try to support the other''s dream as much as possible (maybe he can plan to retire with a little less money, maybe suck up the Arizona home-- although prices are falling now! -- and perhaps she can work part-time and put that money in a 529 college fund?) - Also, have they talked about the part where, if his family has the habit of dying young, she may get stuck with a dependent in college?

If they don''t communicate well enough to be able to talk about this and work out something that both of them can live with (and where he''s not just making a decision on his own of "my plan" or "her plan"), I would be a little suspicious at his "chance at a new life." But maybe I''m a cynic

One more thing: colleges will often give more financial aid if the income level is low, which I believe includes retirement. But I don''t know details, since I''m not in that situation right now But they should research this as well before making decisions.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

How much does he value her girlfriend? Sounds like this may be a deal breaker to her. If he loves her and wants to marry her he is going to have to somehow make it work.

 

[LegacyGirl]

I paid for college and law school myself so it can be done. Parents don''t have to pay for their children''s education and if they do the child needs to be on their knees thanking mom and dad for the rest of their life.

 

[Erin]

I don''t know if it''s so much he thinks he has to pay for his children''s college (any of them). He played for a private college on a baseball scholarship so he''s been grooming his young boys to be good at sports and I bet that plays some role in it.

I think he''s thinking along the lines of less parental responsibility - considering his current children would be 30 and 25 - and he can feel like he can take off for a couple of months or travel or not work. Bringing young ones in this ''late in the game'' ensures that retirement would be put off a bit.

I told him. Who knows if you''ll end up 60, retired, with a winter home, golfing on a whim, with no one special to share it with.
Or alternatively, who knows if spending the next 20 years with a wife and a daughter would really make you content despite how many rounds you get to play in retirement.

He''s starting to feel like she wants an answer now. He asked, How can I make that decision right here and now, today? It''s not like I haven''t been thinking about it but I''ve been handling the kids'' issues with divorce, my parents have died, and I''m trying to decide whether this is job I want to spend the next 20 years in. I have a lot of other things going on in my life so it''s not like this is the only thing I''ve had to worry about.

I told him, if you take too long to make up your mind, that choice will be taken away from you... Everybody likes to have a choice.

 

[Octavia]

Date: 3/11/2008 2:24:55 PM
Author: Starset Princess
I don''t know if it''s so much he thinks he has to pay for his children''s college (any of them). He played for a private college on a baseball scholarship so he''s been grooming his young boys to be good at sports and I bet that plays some role in it.

There was just an article about this -- he might want to read it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sports/10scholarships.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

I don''t really know what else to say, except that 60 is pretty young for retirement nowadays (although I understand his underlying fears about health and how long he''ll be able to enjoy retirement). Most older people I know retired and then went back to work at least part-time because they couldn''t stand the boredom. If he was 60 right now, then I could completely understand his hesitation, but people have kids at age 40 all the time and make it work. But only he and his girlfriend can really make the decision, and I''m not sure how much our comments here will really help with that.

 

[Erin]

Date: 3/11/2008 3:37:26 PM
Author: Octavia
I''m not sure how much our comments here will really help with that.

Yeah, I know every situation is unique. I guess I was hoping those with more of an ''eye on the prize'' retirement mentality could say, You know, you really want to just enjoy yourself and put child rearing kind of behind you. I feel like I''ve been waiting for those days for the last ten years..

Or from those who experienced a second marriage/second family.

Having no children of my own, I know how to explain her side of things to him but I''m trying to figure out if what I really should be doing is understanding his side. Seeing how I''m only 32, unmarried and childless, I have little to relate to the ''all over again'' attitude.

 

[movie zombie]

if it were me it would be hands down in favor of retirement. if the other person was pushing for an answer it would be time to go our separate ways. however, i think he needs to get real clear for himself because if he does break up with this person, he should not date anyone who wants children. not fair to them.

movie zombie

 

[chiefneil]

I''m about your buddy''s age, and I also have my eye on early retirement. I think if I were in his shoes, I would not choose to marry someone who wanted to be a stay-at-home mom at that point in life. If the GF has a career and will contribute to the child''s expenses and her own retirement fund, then I''d go for it. Otherwise, it''s a little late in life to pick up another 2-3 dependents. It''s a tough decision though.

 

[choro72]

Is money the issue? If so, I recommend hiring a financial adviser, if he hasn''t one already. If it doesn''t make financial sense, then there is no point in discussing it really...

If it is plausible one way or another, then it''s up to them to decide what''s most important. If his girlfriend has never had children, then you''re right, he''s "done" with the whole experience while she has yet to achieve all this. Personally, I think that even if the guy has "done all that" already, he should be willing to do it all over again with the love of his life. Especially if it''s important to her.

 

[crown1]

Date: 3/11/2008 2:24:55 PM
Author: Starset Princess
I don''t know if it''s so much he thinks he has to pay for his children''s college (any of them). He played for a private college on a baseball scholarship so he''s been grooming his young boys to be good at sports and I bet that plays some role in it.


I think he''s thinking along the lines of less parental responsibility - considering his current children would be 30 and 25 - and he can feel like he can take off for a couple of months or travel or not work. Bringing young ones in this ''late in the game'' ensures that retirement would be put off a bit.


I told him. Who knows if you''ll end up 60, retired, with a winter home, golfing on a whim, with no one special to share it with.

Or alternatively, who knows if spending the next 20 years with a wife and a daughter would really make you content despite how many rounds you get to play in retirement.


He''s starting to feel like she wants an answer now. He asked, How can I make that decision right here and now, today? It''s not like I haven''t been thinking about it but I''ve been handling the kids'' issues with divorce, my parents have died, and I''m trying to decide whether this is job I want to spend the next 20 years in. I have a lot of other things going on in my life so it''s not like this is the only thing I''ve had to worry about.


I told him, if you take too long to make up your mind, that choice will be taken away from you... Everybody likes to have a choice.

this sounds like he is not ready or willing and the "girlfriend" is the one who is pushing for marriage and a child. me thinks she is wasting time. find a new guy. jmho.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 3/11/2008 5:33:42 PM
Author: crown1


this sounds like he is not ready or willing and the ''girlfriend'' is the one who is pushing for marriage and a child. me thinks she is wasting time. find a new guy. jmho.

A big ditto to this! If he has to deliberate over marrying a woman who''d like to have a child with him or choosing the single life with playing golf and early retirement, then it is pretty obvious to me that he doesn''t love her enough!!! I sure as heck wouldn''t want him if I found out he was getting opinons on whether to marry me from random strangers!

 

[Haven]

Well I definitely value retirement, and I plan on retiring at age 55.

HOWEVER, the decision to have a child is extremely personal and, ahem, ENORMOUS, so he should be absolutely sure he wants that child and won''t end up resenting the girlfriend and the child when his "retirement age" rolls around.

My FI is 37, we''re marrying in July, and the issue of retirement vs. children has never coming up. He''s absolutely certain he wants children, and if he wasn''t, I''m not sure I''d want to have them with him.

Good luck to your friend, this is a very personal decision.

 

[lyra]

And a word from the "life is too short" department... You just never know what life is going to throw at you. He can''t be guaranteed of *anything*, even living to retirement age, or possibly even facing financial reversal well before then. I''m afraid we got caught up in a series of unexpected hardships right around his age. Got out of all of that horrible stuff, and then my health failed. You just never know. I voted for at least one child with the girlfriend and less money at retirement. But I agree with everyone else who said the future child(ren) can pay for their own education(s) too.

 

[ImpatientOne]

Date: 3/11/2008 3:54:11 PM
Author: movie zombie
if it were me it would be hands down in favor of retirement. if the other person was pushing for an answer it would be time to go our separate ways. however, i think he needs to get real clear for himself because if he does break up with this person, he should not date anyone who wants children. not fair to them.

movie zombie

My thoughts, exactly! I had children in my 20''s. My youngest one will be going off to college in the fall. I am 47. My husband is 35 and has no children. Our one year anniversary is next year. He had no qualms about marrying an older woman who could have no more children, but at 35, he felt he didn''t really feel like he would want to start out that late in life having children.

I know plenty of people have children into their 40''s. It doesn''t sound like your friend is really keen on that idea. Parenthood is not an 18 year commitment - it lasts a lifetime, s lots of things to consider! I don''t envy him!!!

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Given the short life span in his family, that''s not fair to him or a child.
Also, once a man gets to that age, the chance of birth defects go way up. Plus, dies he really want to be making that investment and have a kid who just ready to start having kids when he may be dying?
Does the girlfriend have any kids? How old is she? Those might explain her position but also if she is being resonable or if she is getting on in years and trying to make sure she doesn''t miss anything.
I am not trying to judge, but with the info given I think it is a bad idea.

 

[Erin]

Date: 3/11/2008 11:38:05 PM
Author: brazen_irish_hussy

Does the girlfriend have any kids? How old is she? Those might explain her position but also if she is being resonable or if she is getting on in years and trying to make sure she doesn''t miss anything.

No she doesn''t have any kids. She is 33, never married, and is a very smart woman with her act together. She went on a date with him, having never dated someone divorced with children because she''d been avoiding that cross section of people, and fell smitten. I don''t think either of them expected it. They are so adorable together and you can just see that they compliment each other so well. She has a great career and has no interest in being a stay at home mom (for now - people change their minds). She said she wasn''t even interested in having children - kind of on the fence her whole life. Since meeting my friend she has told him really early on that she thinks if she didn''t have one child, she would regret it later in life. She told me it was meeting him that caused to her understand for herself that when you meet someone special it can make you want to have a child with him - no matter how you felt before. And he always told her I don''t know what my answer is on that - and he meant it. Not as a shrug off but because there''s a lot of things to consider.

Maybe they were both hoping the other would feel the same.

 

[sumbride]

Date: 3/11/2008 8:38:55 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 3/11/2008 5:33:42 PM

Author: crown1



this sounds like he is not ready or willing and the ''girlfriend'' is the one who is pushing for marriage and a child. me thinks she is wasting time. find a new guy. jmho.

A big ditto to this! If he has to deliberate over marrying a woman who''d like to have a child with him or choosing the single life with playing golf and early retirement, then it is pretty obvious to me that he doesn''t love her enough!!! I sure as heck wouldn''t want him if I found out he was getting opinons on whether to marry me from random strangers!

Agreed! The "retirement" path he''s looking at doesn''t seem to include anyone else. He''s looking at his life as if he''ll be the only one in it, and if that''s what he wants, fine, but he needs to let this woman find someone else! If he really loves her, I don''t get why he''s torn between life playing golf alone or life with her, creating a family that he''s "always dreamed of". In the end, will he really say "I wish I''d played more golf?" or will he be glad that he shared the rest of his days with a woman and possible child who loved him. I know which way I''d go if choosing between the two, and I don''t even want children.

Retirement is no guarantee. Working toward it is important, but if he''s got everything in the stock market, how does he really know that it will work out anyway? My parents have never planned to retire because they own their own company and fully intend to work there as long as possible. I guess I''ve always thought that I would do the same... find a line of work that makes me want to keep doing it. I''m not there yet, but I''m not dreaming of what I''ll do in retirement either.

 

[bee*]

Date: 3/11/2008 8:38:55 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 3/11/2008 5:33:42 PM

Author: crown1



this sounds like he is not ready or willing and the ''girlfriend'' is the one who is pushing for marriage and a child. me thinks she is wasting time. find a new guy. jmho.

A big ditto to this! If he has to deliberate over marrying a woman who''d like to have a child with him or choosing the single life with playing golf and early retirement, then it is pretty obvious to me that he doesn''t love her enough!!! I sure as heck wouldn''t want him if I found out he was getting opinons on whether to marry me from random strangers!

I agree with this also. It sounds like he already knows which way he wants to go. If it was me personally, I would rather the family with less money option, as I''d like to be retired with family around me, however this guy already seems to know what he values more.

 

[chiefneil]

Date: 3/12/2008 8:13:10 AM
Author: Starset Princess

Date: 3/11/2008 11:38:05 PM

Author: brazen_irish_hussy


Does the girlfriend have any kids? How old is she? Those might explain her position but also if she is being resonable or if she is getting on in years and trying to make sure she doesn''t miss anything.

No she doesn''t have any kids. She is 33, never married, and is a very smart woman with her act together. She went on a date with him, having never dated someone divorced with children because she''d been avoiding that cross section of people, and fell smitten. I don''t think either of them expected it. They are so adorable together and you can just see that they compliment each other so well. She has a great career and has no interest in being a stay at home mom (for now - people change their minds). She said she wasn''t even interested in having children - kind of on the fence her whole life. Since meeting my friend she has told him really early on that she thinks if she didn''t have one child, she would regret it later in life. She told me it was meeting him that caused to her understand for herself that when you meet someone special it can make you want to have a child with him - no matter how you felt before. And he always told her I don''t know what my answer is on that - and he meant it. Not as a shrug off but because there''s a lot of things to consider.


Maybe they were both hoping the other would feel the same.

She sounds perfect. I''d vote for getting married and having kids, but as with others I''m concerned that he''s hesitant. That hesitation says quite a bit about his feelings and level of commitment.

 

[deorwine]

Date: 3/12/2008 8:13:10 AM
Author: Starset Princess
She has a great career and has no interest in being a stay at home mom (for now - people change their minds).

Okay, I was assuming she wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. Now I really don''t understand why they can''t have both. He can retire at 60 and play golf and they can buy a winter home, and she can go on with her career (she''ll probably be at her peak earning years right then) and fund the putative kid''s college education. Yes, kids are a big responsibility, and I think your friend is right to look at all the aspects of this, but I don''t understand his specific problem that he doesn''t feel like this is a possibility. My DH and I are in a sort of similar situation, as I am eight years younger than he (he is 39) and we have yet to have kids, and I fully expect that he will be retired and I will be the primary breadwinner if we have more than one kid, when the second kid goes to college.

They just have to agree on a plan TOGETHER, and be flexible together when that plan changes (as it will).

 

[Maria D]

Date: 3/11/2008 12:40:27 PM
Author:Starset Princess


I'm asking this poll on behalf of one of my guy friends. He is 39, divorced with two children under age 10. His girlfriend of a couple years wants to get married and have at least one child together. Everyone lives within 25 miles of each other. Of his four grandparents and two parents, none of them lived past 70. That's something he thinks about.

Turns out, he can stick to his original plan he's had for years - before he ever thought he would be divorced - of retiring at age 60, playing golf at his leisure, having a winter home in Arizona, enjoying his retirement with ample money.

Or, (in his words), he can suck it up and say, I have a chance at a new life with a girl who will allow me to have the family life I always dreamed of having. But let's say I have this child at age 40 and they graduate high school and go to college when I'm around age 60. There goes retirement.

In comparison, both are good and bad for different reasons. I just don't know which one in the end will ultimately leave me the most happy in my life.

I think its ironic that this man is divorced with two kids under age 10 and yet thinks he has a chance at 'a new life with a girl who will allow me to have the family life I always dreamed of having.' What exactly does that mean? He didn't get the family life he dreamed of with the first wife & kids and he thinks someone else is going to 'allow' him to have it? It takes two people to make a dream family -- not one person who wants a child and another who goes along with it as long as it doesn't interfere too much with his plans 21 years from now. Also, what makes him think this second wife is going to last all the way to retirement? The first one didn't and second marriages are even more likely to end in divorce than first ones.

He has two young children that are already here *now*. That is going to make for challenging family dynamics if he remarries at all and even more so if he has more children. BOTH of them, if they decide to marry, need to consider the needs of the children that are already *here* first, imo.

 

[Erin]

He says dream family because he hates that when the boys have a baseball game, Mommy brings the boys in her car, Daddy shows up alone, they both root them on, they win the game. Then the boys ask him to go out for ice cream and then it just hurts. Does he go to celebrate knowing they''re all going back to their old house while he heads the other direction towards his house? Or does he just say, No buddy, I can''t, so that the kids don''t get that ''Mom and Dad are together and we''re a family again'' scheme realized. No, he goes back home and waits until Wednesday night until he gets to see his kids again. He hates it.

His dream family would be having a wife and child at home, having a schedule, giving his kid a bath EVERY night, make breakfast EVERY Sunday morning. He feels really passionate about this. He felt like it was all taken away from him.

Sure, second marriages have statistics too. Everything has statistics. There''s nothing keeping him from living until 85 despite his family health history. It''s all a risk.

He so caught up in weighing everything that he''s become overwhelmed with how to go about making the smart decision. It''s almost as if he has no gut feeling because he''s such a calculator. But I know he loves her. And I watch him to so many things just to watch her in enjoyment. It''s sickening, really.

I guess after being divorced, he''s just, scared to make the wrong decision that affects SO MANY people besides just himself. And if he stayed the rest of his life alone, the only person that would suffer is him. Admirable thinking. Lousy way of life.

 

[Allisonfaye]

I think if someone wants a baby and you don''t, you should let them go. I have a friend and he and his gf have broken up a bunch of times because she does/ he doesn''t. But her baby years are almost over and I think ultimately, she will resent him for it. I know I would.

As far as your friend, it sounds like he is too busy to consider her needs as important as his. Did she just tell him the other day she wanted a baby or did she tell him when they first started dating? It is a long time to be dating without having THAT conversation.

Someone needs to make a decision here or the decision will be made for them.

 

[Mara]

eee i can''t chose just one up there.

we are thinking about the same issues. greg is going to be 40 this year and we are lagging on kids, just enjoying ourselves too much. we think we want kids but it just hasn''t been a priority yet. so that might equate to not having kids if we lag too long. but then will we regret it later? so we are just playing it by ear thus far. but yeah it''s tempting to think gosh i could retire earlier if we didn''t have a kid right now. but then you will be what, older, the two of you, no kids...would you regret it? it''s so hard to say, no one really could know.

i think that if he really wants to have a kid with this new woman he is going to share his life with, then they should do it. but it sounds to me like he doesn''t really care either way but is thinking gosh retirement would be great. does SHE really want the kid rather than him? recipe for potential resentment later?

i think both people have to be on the SAME PAGE of the SAME BOOK when it comes to procreation and bringing kids into the world. it really should not be about money persay, yes hopefully you can afford the child, but it''s really more about will you feel like this child will enrich your life and that you can do your best to raise a child that you can be proud of?

to me they both need to have a few more heart to hearts and figure it out. also if he doesnt want a child is it a deal breaker for her?

 

[Maria D]

Date: 3/12/2008 4:41:43 PM
Author: Starset Princess
He says dream family because he hates that when the boys have a baseball game, Mommy brings the boys in her car, Daddy shows up alone, they both root them on, they win the game. Then the boys ask him to go out for ice cream and then it just hurts. Does he go to celebrate knowing they''re all going back to their old house while he heads the other direction towards his house? Or does he just say, No buddy, I can''t, so that the kids don''t get that ''Mom and Dad are together and we''re a family again'' scheme realized. No, he goes back home and waits until Wednesday night until he gets to see his kids again. He hates it.

His dream family would be having a wife and child at home, having a schedule, giving his kid a bath EVERY night, make breakfast EVERY Sunday morning. He feels really passionate about this. He felt like it was all taken away from him.

The scenario you give in your first paragraph is still going to play out whether or not he remarries and whether or not he has more kids. It sounds like the pain going on from his first marriage is the real issue, not how much golf will be played at age 60. If he''s thinking about remarrying and starting all over as a way to "fix" what was broken in the past, my non-professional opinion is: it''s not going to work. Sounds like he needs to do a lot of emotional work on himself before he even thinks about making a life with anyone else.

 

[butterfly 17]

Me and my husband are going through this right now. My husband is 41 and I am 35. My husband can retire in two and a half years if he decides and start getting his pension at age 43.

I just found out I was pregnant a few weeks ago. Completely unplanned and completely a shock and surprise!

Of course, this did not go with our "plan". We already have two kids under the age of 10 and we also bought the house we are living in now thinking we would not have any more kids and we could go ahead and afford the larger mortgage (its not like we are going to have any more kids, right?).

Well, after I found out about my pregnancy, I thought long and hard if I really wanted to keep it. There were so many things going through my head, I mean, it was not planned right, I wasn''t taking my prenatals, could I afford another child, could I afford to be out on maternity leave for 6 months, let alone 4 months, what would I do about babysitting, would I have to work part time, how would I pay the mortgage if I work part time, can my husband retire, should he retire, I feel so old, what if there is something wrong with the baby, do I really want to do this again, I hated being pregnant last time, I don''t want go through it all over again, I already have heartburn, WTF? what should I DO?


Well, after a long talk with my husband, we decided to just take what life gives us and be happy with what we have and what G*d has allowed us to have and even though we still worry about what the future will bring, I think we can handle it.

There are times when I am still not sure if I am making the right decision, which is one of the reasons I haven''t posted in the Pregnancy thread. I have been so ambivilant about this whole pregnancy and yet we have made up our minds that we will have it.

My husband is not sure if he is going to retire at this point because he is getting a promotion and he is not sure when it will it occur. HE said if it occurs in the next few months, then he will stay on at least another 4 years, but if it doesn''t, then he will just retire on time.

Either way, I don''t know if it will affect us income wise as he will get around the same money, possible more since they don''t take out state taxes, and he has been contributing 25% to his deferred comp plan all this time and when he retires, he won''t anymore.

I think it is so hard to decide what to do about the future. But I think sometimes when you plan too much, you don''t get to enjoy life. Who''s to say he will live the next 20 years, or he will retire or perhaps he''ll get laid off or get fired or win the lotto, or what if they can''t have kids. There are just so many variables.

Anyway, I wish him and his girlfriend good luck.

 

[Erin]

Thanks Butterfly

I wish you and your husband good luck, too. It sounds like you''re entering this suprise with the right attitude. Congratulations!